Mass Effect 3, because we need a thread without Caps Lock

[Revising Ocelot]

And also because the game's out in the US, or on Friday for Eurofags such as I.

I told myself I wouldn't get Mass Effect 3, and I'm still not getting it. There's a lot of decent reviews coming in, but Dragon Age 2 also had a lot of decent reviews and mysteriously everyone changed their minds about it after a few weeks. So I'm waiting for at least a month of user input, because I trust the 2.2 average from 300 user reviews on Metacritic far less than the professional reviews right now. Portal 2 also had a stupidly low score on that basis because people had temper tantrums over the Potato Sack ARG, and that was a pretty damn great game from most points-of-view that possessed some sanity. Even if ME3 turns out the same way I'll still be dubious, because Origin and Bioware's exorbitant marketing campaign really irritate me.


So, anyway, user input. This would be a good place to drop it in after people play, and hopefully finish the game, with the benefit of hindsight being far better than the burden of foresight which troglodytes like me are still dragging around.

[Azisien]

Plays a lot like Mass Effect 2, but they have made great changes to weapon upgrades/mods that make it seem more like the first game.

Still only 3 hours in. I didn't really like the new Citadel design, it was too small. I guess this is because you're not supposed to waste away hours on the Citadel anymore. The Normandy upgrades are awesome, and I like...pretty much everything else in the game so far.

EDIT: Holy crap the Prothean Particle Rifle is insane. Why use any other gun?

Oh, one other minor gameplay annoyance. Seems my ammo powers reset after every mission, so I have to re-apply them all. 2 didn't do this and was more convenient for it.

EDIT EDIT: Oh, my tag is Azisien for those playing on Origin. Gotta build a pool of people to play multiplayer with. Fun as hell.

[Melfice]

EDIT: Holy crap the Prothean Particle Rifle is insane. Why use any other gun?

Tell me this isn't some store-exclusive pre-order bullshit (Origin being the store, in this case).
'Cause that shit really needs to stop, like, yesterday.
Also peeved I'm not getting the Argus rifle pre-order bonus, because I pre-ordered the Collectors Edition.

[Azisien]

Tell me this isn't some store-exclusive pre-order bullshit (Origin being the store, in this case).
'Cause that shit really needs to stop, like, yesterday.
Also peeved I'm not getting the Argus rifle pre-order bonus, because I pre-ordered the Collectors Edition.

It is a weapon you get by doing From Ashes. And okay, it's a little weak vs. shields. But dear god, pretty much the only one you need.

[Melfice]

It is a weapon you get by doing From Ashes. And okay, it's a little weak vs. shields. But dear god, pretty much the only one you need.

Then I am not worried at all, and will certainly enjoy said rifle.

[Solid Snake]

...Just finished my MPRE review session, so now I'll get to pull something close to an all-nighter with this game.

...I'll probably leave commentary to the other thread, which might as well be renamed "Snake criticizes ME3." I don't think I want to get into fistfights with y'all, but I know a few of you might interpret my comments negatively or as attacks on a product many of you may enjoy.

I flipped through the strategy guide a bit during lunch and I gotta say, the strategy guide is a huge step down from ME2's. I'd strongly recommend against purchasing it. A substantial amount of the information presented is just wrong, for one thing. And other important information is not concisely displayed. It's one of those strategy guides that wastes several pages giving you pretty pictures (of everything you're bound to experience in-game anyway) without actually accompanying those pictures with useful information.

[Azisien]

Just sunk 5 hours into multiplayer.

Only played with one friend (and 1d55 briefly though I am hesitant to call it "played with" he lagged so much), but got a Vanguard to level 14, earned about 75000 credits, and equipment wise don't have much to show for it. I built him as a Charge Bot though, and it's amazing.

And as a nice boost, my Galaxy Readiness is now universally 80%, instead of the default 50%. Going to kick some Reaper ass.

Only let down: Bronze didn't have any Geth Armatures. I hope ONE of the levels does, at SOME point.

[Arcanum]

How does the multiplayer of the full game compare to the demo? Is everything still randomly unlocked through buying packs, and are there more than two kinds of packs? Also are the species choices for each class the same as it was in the demo?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

More specifically is the Asari Adept still the most brokenly overpowered thing since Borderlands Siren?

[Azisien]

I played a grand total of about 100 seconds of the multiplayer demo. My guess is that it's the same.

Item packs are doled out randomly. There's three item packs. Race/class combos are, I think, the same.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Started the game last night, haven't got very far yet, got sidetracked wandering around the Normandy. You can certainly tell the military have had their damn hands on it, bastards have gutted the interior and stolen my Hammerhead gunship.

And I finally got confirmation of some stuff that I'd been wondering about for a while when I came to import my save, since I never played ME1 and somehow missed the backstory comic for it at the start of ME2, so the game auto-defaulted some stuff. Turns out the Rachni are indeed dead, as is Wrex. I've also lost Samara and Legion with this character, destroyed the geth heretics and the collector base, let the council die and encouraged the Quarians to go and attack the geth, which they now seem to be doing.

I have created a very dark universe, bereft of hope. This'll be fun!

[Sifright]

Just got my 'real' copy of the game now time for some multiplayer fun!

[Bells]

"Who dropped all this model kits around...?"

Me collecting pretty much 60% of all Ship models within the few hours of the game...


I really do enjoy the game, having played ME2 and loved, it really does feel like a continuation from that with the emotional weight and urgency building up. So i am having fun with it.

Combat at first seemed like it was going to be "Boxed Room with Chest-High walls" but it is true wath the reviews said... it's a lot more dynamic. If you don't move around and pick your placement on the terrain, you get wasted fast.

Also, a Little spoiler (intuition) about EDI for those of you who are early on in the game:

Take nothing granted. At first i was weary about having EDI as a fighting character in the field. But truth is, she is a character that evolves fast from experience... So i think bringing her on missions will play out in the end somehow. She is a good second gunner, so bring her for the fight!

EDIT:

Also, Screenshots ahoy!

http://i42.tinypic.com/10n9dw4.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/24zhb9y.jpg

[Azisien]

All right, I'm uninstalling this game right now.

kjlZ-Bp41Ww

[Bells]

All right, I'm uninstalling this game right now.


i'm pretty sure you're just quoting the Hipster in the video, so let me just comment this:

I just killed a Cerberus Titan with that Gun that shoots mines in a combination with Incinerate and it triggered a glitch where the enemy died but it's model stayed on the map in a fixed position.

Also, in Tuchanka one of those Trucks on the back when the convoy stops had it's wheels a tad into the ground textures.

Also, the A.I. can be quite stupid at times.

Sometimes it's hard to navigate from cover to cover when you need to do i fast.

And i don't recall that many Gameplay and Animation issues on ME2. Either way it's a great game so far, and i'm enjoying it all. these small glitches and problems do -not- reduce the overall value of the game and it's intended experience. So i'm ok with it, even though i wish they gave it that extra coat of polishing...


EDIT: Just a little cool event where ME2 effects ME3 (early game spoilers)

I liked how when Thane is lethally injured on the Citadel raide, later on Bailey tells you that they were able to save him because his son was a viable blood donor!

[Azisien]

One time Garrus didn't load into a cutscene, and a wall with Garrus's voice had a conversation with me. It was pretty funny.

[Bells]

When talking to Liara and Glyph at the normandy, during one of the conversations Liara was talking with Shepard, but both their eyes and heads were fixed tracking Glyph's movements off screen... i guess you can image the scene.

http://i44.tinypic.com/b9dcnq.jpg

EDIT: Also, shepard looks good with with Brazil's Flag colors on his armor! WOOT! New color scheme for each mission!!

[Azisien]

I think that bug has been around since the first game. Several dozen software engineers have lost their lives trying to fix it.

[Bells]

The war starts to collect it's price on Shepard's mind... now he is hallucinating that his Fish are flying around his cabin... oh wait

http://i43.tinypic.com/3090lk0.jpg

[Solid Snake]

Re: Taking EDI with you on missions.

Hahahahaha.
Very funny!

...Seriously I managed to get through nearly the entire game without using EDI. Then suddenly on some major mission EDI's all like "but you have to take me with you or I'll cry robot tears wwwwaaaaaaaaahhhh." And I was like "Why the fuck would I kick off Garrus or Tali or Javik or Liara for you, go and rot in your little corner."

Also, I like Ashley as a character and all, but boy was sorely I tempted to just shoot her and wash my hands of her when she was like "You're working for Cerberus I trust Udina more than you!" Only the fact that I was playing as my pure paragon character prevented me from taking action.

Finally, Tali's drunk dial convo with Javik almost single-handily saves this game.

[Bells]

i've spent this whole game dodging Liara, Kaiden and Cortez just so i could get back together with Tali.

Girl is sassy! Me likey!

Also, hey, just out of curiosity, what Powers are you guys packing? I played Engi on ME2, so i Kept it. With Me, Tali and EDI on the field we have a Decoy, a turret and 2 Bots doing support on the Battlefield. The mess pretty much cleans itself at this point!

[Melfice]

I'm a soldier.
Slowin' down time, and shootin' the bad guys full of hot lead. LITERALLY. Incendiary ammo, don'chaknow.

Further, I've got a Biotic (either Javik or Liara) and a techie (Garrus or EDI) with me.

I get the job done so far.

EDIT: Also, re: Prothean rifle. I like it, and it's certainly effective, but I've found myself going back to my Mattock regardless. So much more accurate and powerful.

[Bells]

have you tried the Geth Rifle? i found it very useful on pretty much every mission now!

Also, Sad face momment: Made some bad choices with legion:

It seems the only one to save him AND the Quarians (and tali) is a very... very... especific road you need to follow from ME2 to ME3... it turns out i made some bad calls here and in the End Tali had to kill Legion =/ ... reloaded, tried to make a last minute change and the result is that i lost Legion and Tali commited suicide in front of me... ouch!

So, sadly, i lost the Geth and Legion... at least got Tali.


Edit:

Uuuh this is a bit weird... am i the only one that noticed the...huh... increase, i guess? In same-sex relationships in this game in comparison to the previous ones? Not that it bothers me... well, at least not it's existence... but it seems i came across a good half dozen dialogues and scenes about Gay couples and families, and maybe 2 or 3 about straight relationships... just thought it was odd...

[Kim]

https://p.twimg.com/Anvc-eUCIAE5byV.jpg

Fucking Bioware.

[Bells]

The thing i said earlier... EDI's Camel Toe... the whole Chobot deal...

I'm willing to peg this one on EA Though, not JUST on Bioware...

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

So I just met up with Grunt and we've gone to fight the Rachni Reaper Queen. Can't decide whether to save it or not. Thoughts?

Also how does this scene change if you had saved the last queen? Does the one you saved just take this ones place? Making this a 2nd chance to bring them back for the final battle?

[Bells]

So I just met up with Grunt and we've gone to fight the Rachni Reaper Queen. Can't decide whether to save it or not. Thoughts?

Also how does this scene change if you had saved the last queen? Does the one you saved just take this ones place? Making this a 2nd chance to bring them back for the final battle?

Here:

Save her, look for Paragon dialogue. She is freed from the Reapers and helps with the crucible construction, it's a major asset.

[CABAL49]

Fucking Bioware.

No, this pretty much does it for me. I did my best to keep an open mind about this game till it was released. Now it is and seriously? I love vaginas as much as the next hetero dude but this is just insulting.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I don't blame ya Cabel. That's taking things far beyond the line.

[Bells]

i made the mistake of peering into the Mass Effect fanbase discussion. It's an Arrow to the soul...

Really... it's just... -SO- much bullshit. Now there is an actual campaign to force bioware make new endings? Fucking really?!

People complaining the writing and story are terrible... really? Why am i not seeing that? It's fine! Actually, it's just as good... it's a conclusion story, everything is closing off and there is a huge sense of urgency to the story, making it feel more fast paced... but i haven't seen a single problem with the story so far, almost 25hours in...

Then, there is the thing with Tali's face (not really a spoiler, but i'll grey it out, just in case...) People complaining HEAVILY about how Tali's face is an Stock Photo with some photoshop... saying that it's lazy or a "betrayal of the fanbase"... Bullshit. Know what i thought the second i learned it was a stock photo? A Clever Prank. almost an easter egg from the developers poking fun on the people that worry so damn much about this stupid thing.

The game lacks some polish on the Technical department. There is just no way to deny that. But it's FAR from being broken or even bad. It's actually vastly superior to a LOT of stuff released lately. A Colorful, Well designed world that feels expansive and open even though the actual playing areas are boxed and almost linear.

And the Sexual aspects of the game were a bit too Heavy backhandedly dealt with in this game for my tastes... EA's pressure, Bioware trying to see just how much they can get away with... i don't know. Just surely know these things are much more "front and center" then they need to be in relation to the game's actual narrative.

It's still a very fun story to follow and a great game to play, well paced with a lot of replay value and quite entertaining...

Either way, just wanted to vent this out

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Then, there is the thing with Tali's face (not really a spoiler, but i'll grey it out, just in case...) People complaining HEAVILY about how Tali's face is an Stock Photo with some photoshop... saying that it's lazy or a "betrayal of the fanbase"... Bullshit. Know what i thought the second i learned it was a stock photo? A Clever Prank. almost an easter egg from the developers poking fun on the people that worry so damn much about this stupid thing.

Whether or not it was a purposeful prank or a serious, stupid decision it was hilarious.

[Arcanum]

Ok, beat the game, so here are my (somewhat) final thoughts on it.

Overall, the game was aces. I enjoyed playing ME3 way more than I did ME2 (both in terms of overall plot and game mechanics (especially game mechanics)).

Character deaths were very well done with the exception of Miranda, but that might have just been because I romanced her in ME2, then ditched her to get back with Liara (in my mind Shepard wooed her just to ensure her loyalty to him instead of to Cerberus). Mordin went out like a champ, and Thane's death was rather touching.

Also, some minor near-end-game crew banter/relationship spoilers if you didn't romance Tali: Garrus and Tali hooking up was great. Brought a smile to my face to see them together, and their embarrassed excuses when you stumble in on them hugging is hilarious.

Also, drunk Tali is hilarious.

Now finally, the ending. Holy shit that ending. What the flying fuck Bioware. Like, everything leading up to the very end was great. The attack on the beam, the final push failing, Shepard and Anderson making it onboard the Citadel. All of that was pretty great and I found myself thinking "what was everyone bitching about?" Hell I'll even excuse Bioware for bringing back the "shoot self in the head to avoid Reaper control" thing, because I found it a hilarious callback to ME1.

And then they fuck everything up with the Catalyst. I mean really, the Reapers are only wiping out advanced organic life because they will inevitably create synthetics that will destroy organic life? What the fuck? Do they (bioware) not realize how idiotic that is? And they don't even tell you why or how the Catalyst exists. Sheperd just blindly believes what the holographic kid tells him because he's sooooooooooooooooo consumed by guilt over the kid he let die on earth (which, I might add, is the worst thing in the game because of how it's just hammered into the game (the whole kid thing, I mean)). Like, after spending the entire game of finding solutions outside of the box like pitting Kalros against a reaper, or curing the Genophage, or bringing peace between the Quarians and the Geth, Sheper just lies back and accepts the options handed to him by a goddamn holographic kid that was in charge of murdering the galaxy countless times over.

Bluh, enough ranting. I will just say that I chose the synthesis ending just for shits and giggles because I didn't like any of the choices so I had Sheperd throw himself into the light. Control probably would've been the better option but whatever.

Also, an unintended side effect of the synthesis ending, I'm pretty sure I gave Joker the ability to have babies with EDI, so that makes it somewhat worthwhile. Even though it's extremely stupid that now everything has glowy circuitry on their surfaces (be it skin or whatever).

[Azisien]

Got my human vanguard to level 20 in multiplayer. I roll max Charge and Nova with max Shield bonuses, and I only carry a shotgun with weight reduction mods. I get Charge back in about 3 seconds after use, and less if I chain with Nova. Shit is so addictive.

Of course, many of the other classes look fun too, but I am having shit luck unlocking new ones. I think I unlocked...Turian Sentinel? And that's it? Screw playing other defaults too!

[Sifright]

So i'm Sifright on the origin system any one up for some PC multiplayer this week? Would be nice to try and take a gold challenge on with some people with mics!

[Bells]

Ok, Finally finished. Here we go... my full view of Roleplaying the game in full, and my view of the ending (it's a big one!)

I Roleplayed during the entire game.I really wanted to take the story as it was meant, so i dove into it as if i was reading a good book i've been expecting... It reflected on everything.

I Continued my Shepard from the previous game, Full Paragon, but sometimes you just can't avoid a few Renegade points (no more than 5% by the end game), and just like ME2 i maxed out Paragon before the final mission. My readiness was 50%, but i maxed out the Green Bar for war assets (although i think my final meter was just over 4.5k assets).

Playing that way, worked very well with me... Shepard's armor reflected his state of mind as a Warrior, i always changed it and change it's color scheme to reflect his personality. In more serious momments it was a Camouflage or Grey tone. And Missions or momments were Shepard was pissed, it was red. After someone's death, it's Black. When Going on full heroics it's colorful or White with blue. And for the final mission i Bought the Dragon armor as a way to make Shepard stand out as a leader for mankind.

Made all the more impact when the Armor was destroyed by the Harbinger attack on the final push.

Also his clothes reflected the character. He starts with his new Normal suit... then, when the reality of war kicks in, i change it to the same one Kaidan uses, to reflect Shepard trying to downplay his own role in the war (dodge the pressure). Later on when he goes for his limit, i just put on the jacket, looking almost civilian.... but on the final mission, he goes with the Full Military outfit (again, plays out nice when the Admiral comes onboard wearing the same thing).

I Go through the game seeing the heroics, feeling good. Feeling like i'm part of a Huge war... you can't save everyone, soemtimes good peopel die... wars aren't fun, aren't glamorous, aren't clean... they are painful, and sometimes the costs are too high.

With that in mind i watch Mordin go. Good bye my friend. Nobody else could got it right.

Later on i feel Relief when Grunt survives. Game me a scare, but sometimes Heroics pay off.

Then, One of the moments where the game gave me real pause... i failed to get Peace between the Geth and the Quarians. Legion is a friend, his actions are logical. He has good purposes, he is a good asset against the reapers... other's don't value them as lifeforms. My Shepard is full Paragon, this is wrong in his eyes... so he supports Legion all the way...

But then... It's either Legion or Tali. What else could i do? Tali is my only romance during the entire series. And i need the Quarians, and this is her Homeworld... and if i loose them, the Geth could STILL go Reaper on me... i can't achieve piece, so as it is... i'm forced to watch a friend kill a friend, and a race going from the brink of freedom and individuality into complete extinction.

Playing this way was great, helped me feel immersed into the game, and as it turned out the game got the best of me in one specific part... jack. There was the mission on the School for biotics, to save them. But i saw it as just a sidemission and let it go for a while... and then... i lost the mission! The students were dead and i felt a bit guilty about it.

Later on, i learned that Jack was on it, and it hitted a bit harder. Specially since in ME2 i took an interest on Jack, always sided with her and made friends with her...

took a chance on a rebel, and it seems she turned her life around just fine, but in the end, in the chaos of war and priorities i let her down.

This was specially true to the fact that Miranda was always a self-righteous bitch with jack, and while the entire galaxy is going down on Flames, Miranda is focusing on her own personal agenda against her dad, while Jack was turning her life around and helping kids so they could be like her without having to endure the hell she did. It turned out i managed to help a semi-useless Miranda, and by accident left a good friend behind to be the plaything of a mad scientist.

Then, i go to a Cerberus facility and learn the grin true... the not only got her, but they turned her into one of their minions. I Fight Jack, and kill her.

And now i really feel guilty about it, through the narrative of Mass Effect, the urgency of the Chaos and the utter Helplessness of everyone around my Shepard. The Game managed to play to my heart strings this time.

And then when it was all said and done, My Shepard, this Larger than life figure, known across the galaxy as a hero, fends off with nothing but a couple of friends a Platoon of monstrous beings that could destroy the most fearless armies... they take one final push for the Goal, and it takes the Mother of all reapers to simply slow him down. I had Garrus with my, the old old reliable friend Garrus. And The Prothean (Felt right to bring him along, let him helpend the fight). Now, they are both dead (as made perfectly clear by anderson on the comm).

Now the game makes me feel relief that i didn't bring Tali along (My solid romance from ME2 and ME3) at least she is safe at camp.

I move forward, and during the Slow-Mo Firefights i feel the need to pull in some headshots. Curious as it might be, i kill 3 Husks and when the 3rd goes done... an Achievement pops in. 1000 Enemies killed. Seems fitting.

Next thing i know, Shepard is standing surrounded by a the pile of Corpses... Gruesome sight, gave me pause for a bit. He can barely walk... but goes forward.

At this point, as it seems to be the case with many players, the game annoys me. I maxed out my Assets, i Maxed out my Paragon Status, i Helped everyone. And yet, when it counts the most, i can't pick the 3rd paragon dialog option against the ILM. It forces me to take a Renegade action to save Anderson... or else he will just kill us both.

It's clear where this is going... Shepard deserves to go away with Tali into the sunset, he earned it. But there is no going back, the ultimate sacrifice is where this game is leading me. There is no Cowboy heroics, there is no "America Fuck Yeah". That much is made clear when the Hacket demands one more mission from Shepard, and before even knowing what it is, he just replies "What do you need me to do?". That's what drove it home for me. Can barely walk, can't see, Bleeding, tired, beaten, still has to go forward.

Then... the kid. Hammered into the game to play to the emotional heartstrings of gamers... Well, i SUPPOSED you need a Proxy to Empathize the player with the final solution... a little human kid is fitting, if also a Huge old beaten clichê...

Now, some (most) comment on how the Reapers solution is idiotic... i can't say they are wrong. HOWEVER, one detail most gloss over is something the kid clearly says... "we wipe out the older races so the young ones can survive". So, it's not ALL Organic life they kill. It's not complete Eradication.

They remove every SENTIENT race that has developed the ability for conflict, Collecting everything they learned, know and created and using it to guide the rest ahead... twisted, but it's not supposed to be perfect anyway, i mean, that's why the game exist in the first place.

...although, hard to think of something viable to replace this section that it's not a juvenile "Big Showdown with Explosions"...

Then, we come for the 3 choices (i got 3 at least...) and it's REALLY clear which is which... there is a blue light on the Paragon Option (control the reapers, create peace.), there is a red light on the renegade option (kill all) and down center there is a Neutral "new" option.. merging everyone.

It's even shown the ILM going for the Paragon option and Anderson going for the Renegade one...

Roleplaying my Shepard to the end, i had to assume the role the universe had forced down on me... even though my character would never think he was worth it, and the ILM showed that he failed trying to do the same thing...

But, the Shepard i knew, the one i created would never force a change into all races, he would never make a decision this big on his own... merging Synthetics and Organics... this is not Shepard. So, in the end, Shepard chooses to serve, yet again. Assume the role life gave him. Making him larger than life... he becomes the one that controls the Reapers. Paragon Choice.

Shepard essentially does ascension into Godhood, controlling all the Reapers and forcing Mankind to roll back it's technology a couple thousands of years.

His final flashbacks annoyed me as a player, he recalls all his friends and experiences... but as a player for this Shepard, my last thoughts were with Tali.

And in the end the ending annoys me a bit... if i can choose freely, why do i have all these Paragon points? Why couldn't i choose the last Paragon option with the ILM? I can play Paragon the whole game and in the last 10 minutes act fully Renegade... i know Mass Effect is about choice and consequence... but i would like to own up to my destiny.

I picked my journey to this point... i'm willing to see it's consequences fully played out. By giving the final word, the developers took away some of the weight of everything i've done (the good and the mistakes) by giving me too much control... up to the point where i can break character in the last second.

Then, the final scene plays out... and THIS is the part it really annoys me. It does not show what happened to my people... we won the War. Shepard now has control of the reapers (even though nobody knows that). he will watch out All races and i'm sure will be a much better judge on how to guide and help them all evolve into better beings...

But... what happened to all the people i cared about to this point? What was their fate? Is Garrus and the Prothean really dead? Where is everyone? I payed so much attention and invested so much time into this people, don't i deserve to know that after my sacrifice they got somewhere? Has Kaidan turned into a good specter? Does James got his back with as a new N7 member? What happaned?!

The Normandy crashed on a planet similar to earth, they are all trapped in there... Tali, EDI, Joker.. are they Ok? How will Tali react having to be once again locked away from her homeworld... loosing her true love...

After the credits one last scene plays out... the "Stargazer" Looks at the sky talking to a kid (his son?) His voice makes it clear... it's Joker, is that his kid? He and EDI had a child? Has the rollback of technology affected EDI?

In the end, i'm not angry with the game... but i felt played by it. Some many answer i worked to earn, but i never got... Between ME1, 2 and 3, it's nearly 100 hours invested into this Story... everything was so conclusive and tied up nicely... but right at the end, i felt blinded at the last second.

Shepard is this thing larger than life, and as i player i earned my stripes by taking him through a hell that would break most living beings. If he has to die, if the Hero's Sacrifice is a necessity, didn't i earn the right to know that all those i cared for are Ok and counted for? Isn't this the whole point of the sacrifice? Even at the last minute when i've beaten all the odds, i have to still bet more and just hope for the best?

In that regard, the ending didn't live up to the amazing Journey. Not that it was a bad ending, it had me locked in all the way... it just didn't live up to the character i played as.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Got my human vanguard to level 20 in multiplayer. I roll max Charge and Nova with max Shield bonuses, and I only carry a shotgun with weight reduction mods. I get Charge back in about 3 seconds after use, and less if I chain with Nova. Shit is so addictive.

Of course, many of the other classes look fun too, but I am having shit luck unlocking new ones. I think I unlocked...Turian Sentinel? And that's it? Screw playing other defaults too!

Yeah that's how I played Van on the demo. Haven't started playing the full thing yet though, want to finish the campaign first.

I tried the Turian Sentinel in the demo though, it was meh. It feels so weak compared to Van.

An Infiltrator with the sniper though, now that is fun, especially when you can run around invisible for like 10 seconds at a time and take all the time you need to line up perfect headshots.

The Asari Adept is debatably the most powerful though, but I haven't played any Krogans yet.

[Azisien]

Strongest person I've seen on multiplayer to date was just a human soldier with an insanely powerful rifle. M-34, IIRC. Made the Spectre weapons look like a peashooter. That combined with his grenade power, and he was almost casually soloing Silver rounds.

SO, finished the game:

Boy, that was some Matrix Revolutions shit.

Which, of course, I mean in a negative way. Pretty weak ending. I don't actually begrudge them the final three choices, those were pretty good all things considered. But the presentation, the Citadel avatar being the kid, the way you pretty much casually dispose of the Illusive Man, ugghhh. Some of the final fleet battle cinematics were amazing. But the scene between Shepard and Anderson that should have been pretty awesome was spoiled because of how fucking awful the Earth texture was. Really, was it 16-bit? Why didn't they just use a nice painted vista like most of the levels in the entire game? And on such an important scene.

I'm sad that what is now one of my favourite game trilogies comes to a close with a weak ending. A difficult thing to bring to a close, I suppose, but shit. Despite all of my complaints and all of the negative bandwagoning around this game, there were so many great character moments in this game. And it was also the tightest ME gameplay ever, so it was actually fun to play. They even managed to make a fun multiplayer out of it, even if they probably shouldn't have. On this, I acknowledge, they were under orders to by EA. And I'd rather the game have been made anyway, instead of not at all.

Overall, fantastic, but for the first time out of the three games, I will say that Mass Effect 3 may not end up my Game of the Year. I suppose it depends on the other contenders of course. ME1 and ME2 knocked it out of the park for me, but 2012 is looking like a delicious year.

[Sifright]

Vanguard with fully upgraded biotic powers and with a tiny pistol so you get 200% recharge speed DOES solo everything, on silver challenges it's a pretty regular thing for me to have more score than every one on my team put together. The soldier class is pretty fantastic though.

[Azisien]

I will be up for multiplayer more or less whenever you find me on Origin. Maybe we could have an NPF game where 1d55 doesn't lag out like a crazy person!

Not sure if I am free this weekend but we'll see.

[Sifright]

I will be up for multiplayer more or less whenever you find me on Origin. Maybe we could have an NPF game where 1d55 doesn't lag out like a crazy person!

Not sure if I am free this weekend but we'll see.

PM me if you are around this weekend this goes for any one else with ME3 on PC who wants to play multi-player with me

[Toast]

I beat the game on saturday, so here are some of my thoughts on the experience.

About 2/3rds of the way through the story, there were problems. Kai Leng wasn't threatening in any way, certainly not in the same way that Saren was. KL was a pushover, and each time I fought him it would have been an easy fight if it weren't for his plot shields. He didn't even touch me on Thessia, and at first I thought the fight at the Cerberus base glitched, because it ended so fast. I figured out that once his plot shield was over, Garrus sniped him through the head with the widow while I was fighting his mooks. It should never be the case that an antagonist like KL was less dangerous than the mooks he brought in.

The reapers move the citadel from where it is to earth? For one thing, how exactly do they do that? For another, if they could have outright controlled (or taken control of) the citadel any time they wanted to, why didn't they do that as soon as they arrived in the galaxy? That's their usual plan. Why forgo it if they could do so at any time?

Why exactly are we waging a ground war on earth to reach the citadel, when if we can break off from the main engagement why can't we fly around to the top of the citadel and enter from the open end? Ok, maybe the planetary guns prevent that. We took those out very quickly. Problem solved. Or perhaps another solution would have been to use the conduit on Illos (or at least try to) to access the inside of the citadel.

Illusive man learning to control Shepard I can kind of see, given how much tech went into rebuilding Shep, but how is he controlling Anderson? Also, I was severely disappointed that I didn't get to fight a reaper-fied illusive man (ala Saren in me1). Which sort of leads me to another thing. No ending boss battle. Kai Leng was the closest we got, and that was just pitiful. The actual final fight of the game was more frustrating than cool, especially since you have hardly any room to maneuver, much less actually succeed in taking out all of the enemies. And mysteriously, running over to the tank and pressing the button causes over a dozen reaper ground units to disappear.

The crucible. You know, as much as I love science fiction like Stargate and Star Trek (among others), I'm getting kind of tired of the 'the one technology to save the world at the last minute' formula. Combine that with the ally fetch quest aspect of the game, and the overall plot structure was fairly weak in comparison to the fantastic writing of the individual segments.

The reapers. In me1, I really liked how inexplicable the reapers seemed. I thought that was pulled off very well. In me2, I was a little concerned that the purpose of the reapers was only to create more reapers, but it wasn't a 100% sure conclusion so that was ok, too. Then in me3 I learn that the purpose of the reapers is because synthetic life always turns on organic life that created it. That's it? Where have I heard that before? That the reapers are doing so in order to prevent the destruction of all advanced life through turning them into reapers is an interesting detail, but not enough of one to save that motivation. There was real potential for the reapers to have an interesting and compelling motivation. This was neither of those.

The catalyst. The catalyst's explanation doesn't really explain anything. Even more, the reapers went from being this looming, terrible purpose to having no agency in less than a minute. For the finale of an otherwise incredible series, the catalyst raised more questions than he answered. What event started it all? How is becoming reapers better than the normal course of evolution? If peace were such a high value ideal for the catalyst (and why would he mention it at all otherwise?) then why design the reapers to destroy rather than guide benevolently? The reapers already guide the technological development of the galaxy so that they can always have an edge and so that no species goes too far off the path. But why make it destructive and violent if they could have made it benign and enlightening? They already have mind control powers in the form of indoctrination. Too many questions.

Now, I've thought about this some more, and in a way it seems the catalyst is preventing the sentient races from reaching a technological singularity, and yet the third option is a technological singularity? If synthesis was a possibility at all, why were the reapers the solution and not synthesis?

The endings. You know, I don't mind there being several endings. I don't even mind that a few of them might lead to Shepard's death, in failure or in sacrifice, but that all of them end in Shepard's death (the last scene where we see him start to breath notwithstanding) is a downer. No, I don't want a 'make everything the way it was' button. I want at least one meet the challenge and succeed ending. I don't feel there was one here.


To sum up: I thoroughly enjoyed playing the game. I don't hate the endings. I think, all told, I'm disappointed and unsatisfied with the ending and general arc of the story, and certain details. I think I've been critical of it without being hateful. I think there were a lot of things that were lacking, such as no confrontation with Harbinger (in the same way there was with Sovereign). In a series that purported to be about player choice and consequences, the choices had surprisingly little effect on things. Sure, a lot of little things did, but a lot of big things didn't. And then the series ends when god says he created the reapers to preserve life.


At this point, as it seems to be the case with many players, the game annoys me. I maxed out my Assets, i Maxed out my Paragon Status, i Helped everyone. And yet, when it counts the most, i can't pick the 3rd paragon dialog option against the ILM. It forces me to take a Renegade action to save Anderson... or else he will just kill us both.


I had that problem, too. I was playing paragon as well, and the only renegade interrupts I took were this one, the one with KL, and the one where I shot Udina. I'm guessing, but I don't know for sure, but taking all the interrupts, talking to everyone (I apparently missed seeing Aethyta and I only had one scene with Conrad Verner, and I'm sure there's others that I missed as well) will get you enough reputation to make the final paragon/renegade choice with ILM.

On that note, though, did anyone else get all of the squad bonus powers? I talked to everyone as often as I could, with the exception of EDI, and I only got squad powers from Liara, Garrus, and James. Kaiden and Tali just wouldn't engage in conversation after the first time when they came aboard.


Then... the kid. Hammered into the game to play to the emotional heartstrings of gamers... Well, i SUPPOSED you need a Proxy to Empathize the player with the final solution... a little human kid is fitting, if also a Huge old beaten clichê...

It was so obvious, even from when that scene was revealed in one of the early trailers, that the kid was supposed to be emotionally important. Him dying and the dream sequences just pushed it so hard, like someone was standing next to me while I played shouting "drama and emotional trauma" in my ear every time it came up. It was so forced and so artless that I resent the writers trying to make me feel for this kid.

I definitely could have done without that. If the Catalyst had to take someone's form, it either should have been who you lost on Virmire, or an idea I've seen tossed around in a few places, it should have been Avina.


Then, we come for the 3 choices (i got 3 at least...) and it's REALLY clear which is which... there is a blue light on the Paragon Option (control the reapers, create peace.), there is a red light on the renegade option (kill all) and down center there is a Neutral "new" option.. merging everyone.

It's even shown the ILM going for the Paragon option and Anderson going for the Renegade one...

I'm not sure I liked how they color coded the two choices. On the one hand, I see your point, on the other I could easily see them swapped. My paragon would choose the destruction of the reapers because she believes that's the best solution for the galaxy that saves the most lives, and that the reapers were an unasked for intervention that caused untold destruction. My renegade might consider controlling them if he thought they could ever be useful.

Then, the final scene plays out... and THIS is the part it really annoys me. It does not show what happened to my people... we won the War. Shepard now has control of the reapers (even though nobody knows that). he will watch out All races and i'm sure will be a much better judge on how to guide and help them all evolve into better beings...

But... what happened to all the people i cared about to this point? What was their fate? Is Garrus and the Prothean really dead? Where is everyone? I payed so much attention and invested so much time into this people, don't i deserve to know that after my sacrifice they got somewhere? Has Kaidan turned into a good specter? Does James got his back with as a new N7 member? What happaned?!

This is the part of the ending, probably more than anything else, that bugs me. There are so many more questions raised than there are answers, in particular about what happens next.

[Marc v4.0]

This is the part of the ending, probably more than anything else, that bugs me. There are so many more questions raised than there are answers, in particular about what happens next.

All of your questions will be answered in the upcoming DLC "Mass Effect 3: The Search for More Money"

[Azisien]

All of your questions will be answered in the upcoming DLC "Mass Effect 3: The Search for More Money"

I actually did laugh out loud when a dialog box opens up after the credits to the effect of "Commander Shepard has stopped the Reapers and the galaxy is at peace. Keep playing to experience more adventures and downloadable content!" What a great way to close any game!

[Bells]

It was so obvious, even from when that scene was revealed in one of the early trailers, that the kid was supposed to be emotionally important. Him dying and the dream sequences just pushed it so hard, like someone was standing next to me while I played shouting "drama and emotional trauma" in my ear every time it came up. It was so forced and so artless that I resent the writers trying to make me feel for this kid.

I definitely could have done without that. If the Catalyst had to take someone's form, it either should have been who you lost on Virmire, or an idea I've seen tossed around in a few places, it should have been Avina.

Man, you just hitted the nail in the head here!

Although for me, the Catalyst should be Ashley (in my case, because i saved Kaidan). It would make sooooooooo much more sense and emotional impact for the character if she was on the dreams and at the end... the Catalyst simply picking a form that it feels it's subject target will "Empathize" more. Damn, it would make even acceptable the fact that shepard simply picks one of the choices presented.

[Arcanum]

At this point, as it seems to be the case with many players, the game annoys me. I maxed out my Assets, i Maxed out my Paragon Status, i Helped everyone. And yet, when it counts the most, i can't pick the 3rd paragon dialog option against the ILM. It forces me to take a Renegade action to save Anderson... or else he will just kill us both.

Is it really that hard for people to get the final paragon option? Well Mannix said in the other thread you apparently have to pick every paragon or renegade option available to you whenever you converse with TIM, and apparently one of them is buried away in a conversation tree on Mars.

Well Bells, you didn't miss much, it's just a callback to ME1 and TIM shoots himself in the head. Hilarious, but shooting TIM yourself would probably be more satisfying (in my opinion, and my Shep was full paragon).


Now, some (most) comment on how the Reapers solution is idiotic... i can't say they are wrong. HOWEVER, one detail most gloss over is something the kid clearly says... "we wipe out the older races so the young ones can survive". So, it's not ALL Organic life they kill. It's not complete Eradication.

They remove every SENTIENT race that has developed the ability for conflict, Collecting everything they learned, know and created and using it to guide the rest ahead... twisted, but it's not supposed to be perfect anyway, i mean, that's why the game exist in the first place.


It's still ass-backwards stupid. They kill all sentient races that have the potential to create synthetics that are capable of killing all organic life permanently. Except the Reapers are essentially already doing that as the Catalyst stalls the permanent doom of organic life until it can come up with a real solution. Except it can't because you'd think after however many cycles of murdering organics it would have thought of something better (like a fucking PSA on how synthetics kill organics would be better).

And to top it off, Shepard (or at least mine) proves that synthetics and organics can co-exist by ending the war between the Quarians and the Geth, and that the Catalyst's prediction is wrong. Yet I'm still forced to have the same three options that do the same thing just with a different color of glowy energy.

The reapers move the citadel from where it is to earth? For one thing, how exactly do they do that? For another, if they could have outright controlled (or taken control of) the citadel any time they wanted to, why didn't they do that as soon as they arrived in the galaxy? That's their usual plan. Why forgo it if they could do so at any time?

Well they take it so they can shut down the Mass Relays, but even after they stole it and brought it to earth the Mass Relays were still working, so clearly they couldn't do that. So really there was no point in them taking it until they found out that you knew it was the Catalyst.

Why exactly are we waging a ground war on earth to reach the citadel, when if we can break off from the main engagement why can't we fly around to the top of the citadel and enter from the open end? Ok, maybe the planetary guns prevent that. We took those out very quickly. Problem solved. Or perhaps another solution would have been to use the conduit on Illos (or at least try to) to access the inside of the citadel.

The Citadel was locked down, just like what happened in ME1 when Sovereign tried to seize control of it. Not only do the arms close, but protective shielding closes the gap on the tower end, completely sealing it off. At least, I'm 90% sure that's what happens, since otherwise it would be pretty stupid.

The crucible. You know, as much as I love science fiction like Stargate and Star Trek (among others), I'm getting kind of tired of the 'the one technology to save the world at the last minute' formula. Combine that with the ally fetch quest aspect of the game, and the overall plot structure was fairly weak in comparison to the fantastic writing of the individual segments.

To be fair, they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with how powerful the reapers were, so they needed some sort of Deus Ex Machina. Not saying it's well done, in fact I agree with you that it's pretty lame, just pointing out why it's there.

On that note, though, did anyone else get all of the squad bonus powers? I talked to everyone as often as I could, with the exception of EDI, and I only got squad powers from Liara, Garrus, and James. Kaiden and Tali just wouldn't engage in conversation after the first time when they came aboard.

I got quite a few. Two powers from James (Fortification, Carnage), Liara (Warp (or warp ammo, I forget), Stasis), EDI (Defense Matrix, Decoy), Tali (Energy Drain, Defense Drone), and Garrus (Armor Piercing ammo, Proxy mine). And I think I only got Inferno Grenade from Ashley.

In the end though I only used Energy Drain since it's great to have a shield-drain power on an Adept for when my squadmates powers are recharging, and being able to restore my shields helped make me even more invulnerable.

[Azisien]

Hokey as the ending was, if I had to have my dream ending, you would have lost. That's it. The cycle repeats.

Or, if we have to give the kids something to cheer about, some kind of Exodus project that shoots you to the Armstrong galaxy with a couple colony ships because you have no chance of stopping the Reapers.

[Solid Snake]

SPOILERS INCOMING

So the general consensus among most folks here and in other forums is that ME3 itself was a fine game, until the ending happened and fucked everything up to high hell.

...I respectfully disagree with this consensus.
And so long as everyone's sharing Walls of Text here about their ME3 impressions, Snake is definitely obliged to join the party.

MY THESIS: Mass Effect 3 works primarily by deceiving the player into believing he/she has independent agency, even moreso than prior ME installments. It also 'succeeds' early on by playing to its strengths of dialogue and character interaction while desperately hoping you don't notice how flimsy the overarching story is.

Basically, ME3 hopes that you love Garrus, Tali, Liara, Mordin, Thane, Wrex, Legion, etc. that you'll be placated by tons of witty (and admittingly well-written) quotes from them and you'll be too busy being emotionally manipulated through their sacrifices and hardships to realize that ME3 is a tremendous disappointment when it comes to everything else.

REGARDING THE MAJOR PRE-CRUCIBLE CHOICES:

There are really only two of them, and unlike past installments of Mass Effect there really isn't sufficient moral ambiguity in them to justify much thought.

First, you can choose whether to cure the Krogan Genophage or merely pretend to do so.

Note, first and foremost, that there's sort of a false dichotomy here already: Shepard can't outright decline to cure the genophage because Bioware's invested too much money into making those cutscenes where the genophage is 'cured' and you have to watch them regardless, so the best you can do is have your Shepard become even more of a douche than necessary and fake a cure to deceive the Krogan into helping with the war efforts.

Secondly, this really isn't a choice. If Wrex and Mordin are both alive, faking the genophage cure requires you to kill them both AND you lose war assets. Faking the cure would make plenty of sense if Mordin and Wrex were ideologically opposed, you'd need to kill one of them, and you could only save one. Even if Mordin and Wrex both had to die if you faked the cure, it could at least be ever-so-slightly more justifiable if Salarian War Assets outnumbered Krogan War Assets in such a way as to make the final mission easier or to gain some other tangible benefit.

That is how Renegade / Paragon decisions worked in ME2 and ME1, for the most part; the Renegade decisions, while brutal and more morally compromising, had practical benefits that justified choosing them, or at least while playing ME1 and ME2 you could imagine theoretical practical benefits in ME3. Here, though, there's no tangible reason whatsoever to go 'Renegade.' Not only does the 'Paragon' action 'save' two allies you've grown attached to (yes, Mordin still dies, but you don't actually kill him, he gains moral redemption, and you don't lose Wrex along with him), it's also the practical and pragmatic thing to do!

If the 'Paragon' action is both idealistic and pragmatic, it loses any impact.

Here's how the decision restricts player agency: I've played the previous games in the series three times with three Shepards, right? Two FemSheps and one MaleShep. One mostly-Renegade, one pure-Paragon and one (the MaleShep) who was named after me and made the choices I'd personally make. (In practice, he's mostly-Paragon.)

...As I roleplayed these characters, all three of those characters made drastically different decisions in ME1 and ME2. The mostly-renegade FemShep is a tad racist and prefers humans, so the Council in ME1 was destroyed in her playthrough. She also raced through ME2 and that resulted in a few allies dying in the Suicide Mission (I did this intentionally, but it still felt in-character because that FemShep is an uncompromising character and her mind was deadset on the mission and she didn't care to acquire the loyalty of allies she personally disliked.) I saved the Rachni sometimes, but not always. I saved Kaidan once, Ashley twice. (In retrospect I wish I saved Kaidan more often.)

If I roleplayed those characters authentically in ME3, not a single one of them would choose to fake the genophage cure. Even Renegade FemShep enjoyed Wrex's company and the Krogan generally (they often shared her perspective on warfare), and not even my Renegade FemShep was outright evil enough to kill Mordin in cold blood. In fact, the 'Paragon' choice is arguably just as easy to justify with a 'Renegade' character; who cares about long-term galactic stability among races when Earth is at risk? We just need as many soldiers as possible on the ground to beat the Reapers!

So I'm left with a conundrum: When I ultimately play through ME3 as my Renegade FemShep, I can either roleplay her 'realistically' (and do the exact same thing I've already done) OR I can 'break character' to see what happens in the other possible outcomes. The net outcome of all this destroys player agency: Bioware's really just roped me into a predetermined outcome by balancing the choices in such a way that there's really no justification whatsoever to choose anything other than the pre-specified path.

(It's worth noting that that if Wreav is alive instead of Wrex, and if you destroyed Maelon's evidence, you can dissuade Mordin from attempting the cure and Mordin will actually live. This would present me with a real choice if not for the fact that I kept Wrex alive in every one of my playthroughs, as I imagine was quite common. He's Wrex, dammit! And it's not like I had the slightest clue that leaving Wrex alive in ME1 would condemn Mordin in ME3.)

And this lack of agency is arguably even worse with the Geths and the Quarians.
You can screw over Tali...
You can screw over Legion...
OR you can bring peace to both!
Again, here the 'Paragon' action of peace is a preferable, pragmatic solution even to Renegade characters. Why lose one fleet in the war when you can procure them both? Why screw over characters you love when you can make them both happy?

Ironically, there'd be more player agency here if we had less options to choose from. The existence of the Peace option in which everyone lives happily ever after negates supporting the Quarians or the Geth. If we had to choose one or the other -- and if Legion wasn't condemned to death but would actually replace Tali as a squadmate if you went with the Geth -- you'd have a real agonizing choice to make!

This same logic holds over with every other choice you make in the game. You can take a 'Renegade' option to kill the Virmire Survivor when he/she accuses you of working with Cerberus. If you keep him/her alive, you gain a squadmate. If you kill him/her, you gain absolutely NOTHING.

Bioware didn't even make the incredibly simple decision to force you to choose which sidequests to complete in a limited timeframe. As stands, you can basically save every ME2 squadmate in their respective sidequest except those who are condemned to die (Legion and Thane) simply by showing up. Imagine how much more dramatic it'd be if you received a distress signal from Grunt and Jack -- or Miranda and Jacob -- or X and Y -- at the same time and could only rescue one. Such an action would lead to player agency! Your Shepard would be confronted with a situation in which your Shepard would make an incredibly difficult decision that might contrast with another Shepard you'd play in another playthrough.

...Oh, and the Rachni? That story arc that's been going on for three games, now? Guess what? If you stay loyal to the Rachni you get like, an extra fifty War Assets. That's it!!! Congratulations!!! Wasn't that a monstrous payoff?


REGARDING PARAGON AND RENEGADE CHOICES:

Again, there's no agency here because the choices are absolutely black and white. The 'Renegade' choices don't even increase your War Assets; you'll always, always be in a better position if you go pure Paragon, hold onto your ideals and push for peaceful resolutions at every opportunity.

Past MEs at least made the Renegade options appealing, or gave you an underlying logic as to why the pragmatic route was actually pragmatic even if it was a tad soulless. Here, if you deliberately go Renegade you're doing so with the sole purpose of making life more difficult on yourself.

REGARDING THE DEGRADATION OF ASHLEY WILLIAMS:

Ashley absolutely gets fucked over in this storyline. She's written to be abnormally paranoid of Shepard beyond a point where her misperceptions would be remotely believable -- seriously, Ashley, it's sensible to doubt Shepard's motivations when he's actually working for Cerberus on Horizon, but when he's shooting the Illusive Man's grunts and you watch him angrily berate the Illusive Man's projection on Mars, you are no longer entitled to be a whiny paranoid jerk.

...I was seriously enticed to shoot her just because she was so annoying. Add her new and not-improved characterization (seriously, what happened to the relatively deep, interesting character I met in ME1?) to her new and not-so-improved physical appearance, and she's a shell of her former self.

Even worse, Bioware seems to actively want you to discard Ashley into the refuse pile. After you bring Ashley back onto your team post-Udina Incident, she has the least interactive dialogue cutscenes and the least unique dialogue in general in the Normandy out of any squadmate -- less than Kaidan (if you kept Kaidan alive instead), less than Javik, less than Vega, less than EDI. It's like even Bioware was like "We don't like her anymore, we give up."

REGARDING KAI LENG THE CEREAL KILLER:

...What a fucking atrocious antagonist.
Even the gameplay of his boss battle sequences were abhorrent. Add that to his useless characterization and the fact that I never once felt remotely threatened by him and he was just a disappointment. It's just weird to watch Shepard become so much more unsettled with Kai Leng than anyone else he's faced -- Leng seems to jar him/her more than the Illusive Man, Saren, Harbinger, you name it -- when Leng was not nearly remotely as threatening in the context of the actual narrative. Just as I watching Shepard overreact unrealistically to an unhealthy attachment to a single child he barely knew, I was also watching Shepard overreact unrealistically to an opponent who should not have rattled him.

Hell, even canonically, a dying Thane totally had Kai Leng's number. And I loved watching the scene, from the perspective of it being a great send-off for Thane Krios. It didn't exactly establish Kai Leng as a frightening and unassailable villain, though.

REGARDING EDI:

Uuuuuggggggghhhhhhhh.

REGARDING THE KID:

I'm actually convinced the Kid could have worked if, like, Shepard actually knew him, and if the player actually got to know him before he died.

Like, okay, toss a fifteen minute prologue with Shepard in house arrest at the beginning of the game. Have Bioware actually write the kid well, and accomplish the impossible by finding a remotely talented voice actor to play him. Maybe make the kid like, Admiral Hackett's son, or Vegas' cousin, or give the kid some reason for him to be present, maybe he's just the son of some nameless Alliance Council member, hell, I don't know. Have the kid actually have a few conversations with Shepard. Let Shepard's lighter, friendlier, more paternal side come out; make the kid likable enough so the player's emotionally unsettled alongside Shepard when he dies.

That'd work! Mind you, I'd still prefer the Kid have nothing to do with this story, because I don't think it thematically works here, but if Bioware was so attached to the concept, at least write the concept in such a way so that it holds objective merit and is believable.

Still, the best solution (while changing as little as possible in the script) would have been to have the Virmire Casualty play that role as the ghost haunting Shepard, and be the ghost later 'possessed' to speak with Shepard in the ending. That'd have far more emotional resonance with those of us who played from ME1, and it's not like it'd even cost Bioware more money, with both Ashley and Kaidan's VAs returning to voice the 'Alive' versions of the respective characters.

REGARDING LOVE INTERESTS:

I kind of wish Bioware was a tad more even-handed regarding love interests as opposed to imposing its own preferences on you and giving some romances greater closure than others? Though I will concede that, for the most part, I was satisfied with what I've seen and read.

...Despite my general dislike for Jacob as a character I'm not sure how I feel about the racist undertones of the African American male being the only love interest who actually unilaterally breaks up with you and hooks up with another person, though. All the Caucasians and the aliens are steadfast and loyal, meanwhile he abandons you? It doesn't even really fit Jacob's character, like he was always boring but also a solid friend and a decent person, and I'd honestly have suspected Jack or Miranda would be more the 'love 'em and leave 'em,' noncommittal types.

...They handled Tali, Garrus and Liara right though and maybe that's all that mattered. And I'll definitely give Bioware massive props for handling the maleShep / Kaidan romance with surprising dexterity and depth; their interactions are arguably better than femShep / Kaidan. Traynor and Cortez were solid additions too, although I do sort of feel Bioware over-defensively thrust their gayness into the spotlight too soon and didn't let Traynor and Cortez develop organically into sympathetic, likable characters before hitting homophobic assholes with the hammer of "Oh yeah, by the way, they're totally gay."

REGARDING THANE:

I felt Thane was one of two characters that Bioware unapologetically and absolutely got 100% right; just felt like articulating that here before y'all presumed I hated everything about the game.
...The other character, of course, was Garrus.

REGARDING GAMEPLAY:

...Okay, okay, the gameplay's the best in the series, Bioware did an amazing job there, it's better than ME1 and ME2 in every conceivable way, battles against Reapers and Cerberus are hella fun.
I just wish Bioware spent a little less time perfecting the battles and a little more time working out all the kinks in its damn story.

My one criticism of gameplay: That awful Reaper battle on Rannoch. Our major face-off against a Reaper and...all we're doing is dodging and...aiming some Orbital Striking weapon. If we took out a 'Human Reaper' in development in ME2, and the scope and the brutality of battles was supposed to increase in ME3, it'd have been cool to actually take even a single small Reaper head-on. Give us some of that Atomic heavy weaponry in ME2 and let us go berserk!

...Also it was completely strange that Shepard had more powerful heavy weapons available in ME2 than in ME3. Shouldn't he logically now have more access to more powerful mini-WMDs?

REGARDING THE ENDINGS:

...Actually, I really don't have anything to add there that hasn't already been said.

EDIT: One thing I will say about the ending is that it's just stupid that Shepard, if he brought peace to the Geths and the Quarians, didn't totally say "Hey Catalyst, you know a synthetic race and the organic race that created them is working together against the Reapers?" Like, doesn't that completely defeat the premise of the argument?

"Organics always create synthetics that destroy organics."
"Oh, hey, I know a few Geth who'd say otherwise. Also, there's this AI on our ship who doesn't seem interested in killing us."

[Bells]

It's still ass-backwards stupid. They kill all sentient races that have the potential to create synthetics that are capable of killing all organic life permanently. Except the Reapers are essentially already doing that as the Catalyst stalls the permanent doom of organic life until it can come up with a real solution. Except it can't because you'd think after however many cycles of murdering organics it would have thought of something better (like a fucking PSA on how synthetics kill organics would be better).

And to top it off, Shepard (or at least mine) proves that synthetics and organics can co-exist by ending the war between the Quarians and the Geth, and that the Catalyst's prediction is wrong. Yet I'm still forced to have the same three options that do the same thing just with a different color of glowy energy.

I absolutely agree. The game and lore played the Reapers as Evil and uncaring. You can't just turn that around on the last second and go "No, really, we are the good guys here...". I don't mind a good "Misunderstood villain" bit ... but that's not what the reapers were, and that was not what shepard is... the actions you took during this series are Epic and legendary... so, in the end, Shepard should be able to beat the odds one more time (as the Catalyst itself says... his solution is flawed and doesn't work anymore. That's BECAUSE of Shepard). So having Shepard forced to "compromise" with Fate and design... is underwhelming.

Also, Snake

Bioware didn't even make the incredibly simple decision to force you to choose which sidequests to complete in a limited timeframe. As stands, you can basically save every ME2 squadmate in their respective sidequest except those who are condemned to die (Legion and Thane) simply by showing up. Imagine how much more dramatic it'd be if you received a distress signal from Grunt and Jack -- or Miranda and Jacob -- or X and Y -- at the same time and could only rescue one. Such an action would lead to player agency! Your Shepard would be confronted with a situation in which your Shepard would make an incredibly difficult decision that might contrast with another Shepard you'd play in another playthrough.

Take a quick look at my previous huge ass wall of text post. But here is the short version anyway I lost Jack due to think i could "delay" some missions and it played out during the game pretty loudly for me.

Also, Kai Leng does not deserve my spoiler tags, i'll just say this... He sucks, i made him my Bitch and he only got alive because he has incredible thick plot armor. I mean, seriously, in the first fight against him i cleaned the floor SO hard with his face it was pitiful, a barrage of Biotics and Techs, while surrounding him with with constant Rifle and Machine Gun fire... he barely moved at all.

in comparison... the Banshee's... when i had to face 3 at the same time, i nearly crapped my pants. i true "Ffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu-" momment if there was ever one in ME3.



Also, hey... does anybody here know if someone tried a second play trough with the same character? When you start a new game, it let's you import your Shepard from ME3 again... and you get to replay the whole game keeping all your powers, levels, weapons and Renegade/Paragon points.... there is even an achievement for it.

just wondering... in a final glimpse of hope, if there are any secrets to uncover if you beat the game again... maybe going Full paragon twice, or One Paragon and then One Renegade... or even Renegade twice. Anybody confirmed or denied this?

[Marc v4.0]

My dream ending was the one that floated around for a while before it was rewritten.

Dark Energy from Element Zero usage would eventually destroy the galaxy, so races must be culled every so often to allow the DE to naturally burn away. The choices at the end are to Shut down Element Zero technology or to let the Reapers do what they have to.

edit: Yeah, Leng is a punk. Did nothing but prance about like a FF reject jackass while eating more bullets to the face than Garrus after a hardcore face-bullet fast.

[Solid Snake]

Take a quick look at my previous huge ass wall of text post. But here is the short version anyway I lost Jack due to think i could "delay" some missions and it played out during the game pretty loudly for me.

Right, but you lost Jack only due to your completely arbitrary lack of knowledge regarding a time limit with that mission; had you known beforehand, I'm assuming you do it right. So there's no real agency there because it's not a conscious decision you're making. It's just you not being told there'd be a consequence, and then being surprised when there's a consequence.

Like, the difference is: If you're told point blank that Jack, Grunt and Samara are all in trouble, and you can only save one of those three characters, that's agency! You're consciously choosing and you're presumably choosing different routes with different Shepard because there's no clear-cut 'right' or 'wrong' answer. Your Shepard who's in a romance with Jack is going to find that decision very easy, while your Shepard who's friends with all three might genuinely struggle.
The Kaidan / Ashley decision in ME1 was real agency. Play ME1 twice, chances are you're going to sacrifice a different character each time.

...Also, Jack as a captured / indoctrinated Cerberus crony was just incredibly poorly implemented. You don't even actually see Jack as she fights against you! She looks just like any other generic Cerberus crony. It'd have been so much more interesting if Jack looked like herself and you were visibly confronted with your 'failure.'

I'll just conclude by saying that, maybe I was just really 'fortunate' or something? But it sucks that I basically just went about my business during my maleShep playthrough and happened to intuitively make decisions that led to every ME2 squad member who could survive, surviving. I didn't lose Miranda, Samara, Jack, Jacob, Grunt, etc.

That was disappointing! I was hoping I'd be forced into more tough choices like the Virmire mission. As it stood, I didn't really have any hard choices simply by following the maxim of "Do every side mission as they're introduced, before the main missions," which is Gaming Playstyles 101.

[Marc v4.0]

Conrad was the hardest hitting moment in all of ME3 for me.

You did good, Conrad. You did good.

[Toast]

Well they take it so they can shut down the Mass Relays, but even after they stole it and brought it to earth the Mass Relays were still working, so clearly they couldn't do that. So really there was no point in them taking it until they found out that you knew it was the Catalyst.

I get why they take it, I was just curious how they move something that big. Yeah, there are mass effect fields, but the scale of the citadel is just so massive in comparison to things that they normally move around, like the dreadnaught sized ships.

Also, the reapers usual MO was arriving through the citadel relay and thus cutting off the hub of the galactic community, the leaders of the galaxy, and probably a significant portion of their military might all at once. And from there, shut off any relay they want, isolating entire clusters so they can't effectively fight back. Even if the reapers didn't arrive through the citadel relay this time, they still had the capability to take it over at any time. Why didn't they?



The Citadel was locked down, just like what happened in ME1 when Sovereign tried to seize control of it. Not only do the arms close, but protective shielding closes the gap on the tower end, completely sealing it off. At least, I'm 90% sure that's what happens, since otherwise it would be pretty stupid.
Yeah, mistake on my part there. The problem is is that it's never clearly shown. The only time we really see that is during Sovereign's rush to get into the citadel before the arms close. It's not really clear until he goes to land on the tower, and we can see the presidium ring and solid plates 'above' it. Still, they should have at least mentioned that Shepard couldn't use the conduit.


To be fair, they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with how powerful the reapers were, so they needed some sort of Deus Ex Machina. Not saying it's well done, in fact I agree with you that it's pretty lame, just pointing out why it's there.


I get that, too, but I don't think they had to. The codex states that new weapons like the thanix cannons give even smaller ships an edge against one of the big reapers, but we never see them being used, not even by the normandy which, for most people, specifically has them.

Not only that, but there was plenty of speculation before the game came out about alternate methods of fighting the reapers. Some that I remember are deliberately destroying mass relays, using dark energy to cause suns to go supernova, and probably some that I'm forgetting.

My dream ending was the one that floated around for a while before it was rewritten.

Dark Energy from Element Zero usage would eventually destroy the galaxy, so races must be culled every so often to allow the DE to naturally burn away. The choices at the end are to Shut down Element Zero technology or to let the Reapers do what they have to.

edit: Yeah, Leng is a punk. Did nothing but prance about like a FF reject jackass while eating more bullets to the face than Garrus after a hardcore face-bullet fast.

Not that this wouldn't be a better story than what we got, it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense by itself. How does dark energy 'naturally burn away'? I've heard the rest of that one as well, where the choice is to destroy the reapers and try to find a solution on your own, or accept reaperism so that the universe can survive. I don't know, something about it just doesn't say enough to me for me to think that explanation would have been any better.

@Snake: The more I think about the game as a whole, the more I agree with almost everything you've said.

The only part I disagree with is the timed missions part. True, I wouldn't have known any of those missions were timed, because I did them pretty much as soon as I got them, but I'm kind of ok with that because different players are going to have different priorities. Like on Tuchanka it was hard to tell which mission I should go for first. The problem is I don't think they did enough of that. I think more planets should have had multiple missions where perhaps you can't do them all in the time you have.

[Marc v4.0]

Well, I assume DE would naturally diminish the same way regular pollution eventually gets filtered out of the ecosystem when no more is being put in.

[Bells]

You get multiple missions during the Geth confrontation too

i picked attacking the Reaper base BEFORE going after the Geth Servers. In my mind, i thought this would give me a chance to break the Geth Free from the Reapers. As it turns out, it forced me to watch Tali kill Legion and all Geth getting extinct. The alternative being Loosing Legion, All quarians and then watching Tali commit suicide... sadly i don't even know if going for the servers first could change that outcome.

[Marc v4.0]

You get multiple missions during the Geth confrontation too

i picked attacking the Reaper base BEFORE going after the Geth Servers. In my mind, i thought this would give me a chance to break the Geth Free from the Reapers. As it turns out, it forced me to watch Tali kill Legion and all Geth getting extinct. The alternative being Loosing Legion, All quarians and then watching Tali commit suicide... sadly i don't even know if going for the servers first could change that outcome.

Yeah, the order makes a difference.

But you have to have done the right things in ME2, as well.

[Bells]

Also, this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/87560354/187222.jpg


EDIT:

But i WILL give Kudos on the little things Bioware got it right. I Loved having "Mr Trailer Guy" show up in London. I would've enjoyed having him in my Party... I salute you and your gruffy voice Mr Trailer Guy.

[Solid Snake]

But i WILL give Kudos on the little things Bioware got it right.

Isn't that ME3 in a nutshell, though?

Mass Effect 3: The game that got many little things just right, while completely botching the big picture.

[Azisien]

Actually, fuck spoiler tags. Everybody who hasn't played the game probably shouldn't read this.

SPOILERS INCOMING

So the general consensus among most folks here and in other forums is that ME3 itself was a fine game, until the ending happened and fucked everything up to high hell.

...I respectfully disagree with this consensus.
And so long as everyone's sharing Walls of Text here about their ME3 impressions, Snake is definitely obliged to join the party.

MY THESIS: Mass Effect 3 works primarily by deceiving the player into believing he/she has independent agency, even moreso than prior ME installments. It also 'succeeds' early on by playing to its strengths of dialogue and character interaction while desperately hoping you don't notice how flimsy the overarching story is.

Basically, ME3 hopes that you love Garrus, Tali, Liara, Mordin, Thane, Wrex, Legion, etc. that you'll be placated by tons of witty (and admittingly well-written) quotes from them and you'll be too busy being emotionally manipulated through their sacrifices and hardships to realize that ME3 is a tremendous disappointment when it comes to everything else.

As the guy with the N7 hoodie in real life, I am inclined to pretty much agree with this. Of course, I don't agree with the agency of your thesis. I don't think Bioware "tricked" anyone. I would just say they got it plain wrong. What they forgot was that they've spent two games putting together a pretty wicked character drama, but they didn't weave what they had into, as you say, the overarching story. They went for a pretty generic finale that didn't take characters into account.

The characters were there before that. And thus before the finale, everything was pretty much awesome. Except for perhaps....

REGARDING THE MAJOR PRE-CRUCIBLE CHOICES:

I can only say here that I was honestly roleplaying when I played all three games. This was expressed as 80% Paragon and 20% Renegade, in pretty much all three games. ME3 was slim on choices, which I thought might be all right, but I absolutely agree that the game lacked a sense of urgency.

REGARDING THE DEGRADATION OF ASHLEY WILLIAMS:

Ashley absolutely gets fucked over in this storyline. She's written to be abnormally paranoid of Shepard beyond a point where her misperceptions would be remotely believable -- seriously, Ashley, it's sensible to doubt Shepard's motivations when he's actually working for Cerberus on Horizon, but when he's shooting the Illusive Man's grunts and you watch him angrily berate the Illusive Man's projection on Mars, you are no longer entitled to be a whiny paranoid jerk.

...I was seriously enticed to shoot her just because she was so annoying. Add her new and not-improved characterization (seriously, what happened to the relatively deep, interesting character I met in ME1?) to her new and not-so-improved physical appearance, and she's a shell of her former self.

Even worse, Bioware seems to actively want you to discard Ashley into the refuse pile. After you bring Ashley back onto your team post-Udina Incident, she has the least interactive dialogue cutscenes and the least unique dialogue in general in the Normandy out of any squadmate -- less than Kaidan (if you kept Kaidan alive instead), less than Javik, less than Vega, less than EDI. It's like even Bioware was like "We don't like her anymore, we give up."

I was going to come up with a bunch of points about this including a few where I disagree but actually I don't even like Ashley THAT much and never have. I just banged her because I didn't want to get space elf herpes.

REGARDING KAI LENG THE CEREAL KILLER:

...What a fucking atrocious antagonist.

I have a great idea guys! We forgot to make a good combat rival for Shepard in the first two games, so how about...how about...An Asian Space Ninja with Robot Legs? I don't care how many camel toes, nipples, make-overs, or whatever the fucks happened to anyone else in this universe, Kai Leng is the worst thing in The Mass Effect Universe.

REGARDING EDI:

Uuuuuggggggghhhhhhhh.

I'm now actually going to argue that EDI is still a pretty decent character. The sexbot body sucks (...improved by jumpsuit), but that's about it. I found the interplay between EDI and Joker to be not only realistic, but humorous whenever it wasn't. EDI develops pretty well as a character, bouncing off Shepard as a sort of organic role model. They could have done other stuff, sure, they could have done everything different, but what they did with EDI still worked pretty well.

REGARDING THE KID:

I'm actually convinced the Kid could have worked if, like, Shepard actually knew him, and if the player actually got to know him before he died.

Like, okay, toss a fifteen minute prologue with Shepard in house arrest at the beginning of the game. Have Bioware actually write the kid well, and accomplish the impossible by finding a remotely talented voice actor to play him. Maybe make the kid like, Admiral Hackett's son, or Vegas' cousin, or give the kid some reason for him to be present, maybe he's just the son of some nameless Alliance Council member, hell, I don't know. Have the kid actually have a few conversations with Shepard. Let Shepard's lighter, friendlier, more paternal side come out; make the kid likable enough so the player's emotionally unsettled alongside Shepard when he dies.

That'd work! Mind you, I'd still prefer the Kid have nothing to do with this story, because I don't think it thematically works here, but if Bioware was so attached to the concept, at least write the concept in such a way so that it holds objective merit and is believable.

Still, the best solution (while changing as little as possible in the script) would have been to have the Virmire Casualty play that role as the ghost haunting Shepard, and be the ghost later 'possessed' to speak with Shepard in the ending. That'd have far more emotional resonance with those of us who played from ME1, and it's not like it'd even cost Bioware more money, with both Ashley and Kaidan's VAs returning to voice the 'Alive' versions of the respective characters.

I pretty much agree with this, ball dropped on the artsy Kid front. I'm not even overall against the whole stress/trauma thing that Shepard goes through. Because really, Earth is under attack, the fight is at home for the first time. The game opens and he's watching Vancouver get blown to shit. That's traumatic for anyone.

About halfway in, I'm even vaguely interested in the Kid Dream sequences because they are seeming a little more abstract than just "Shepard saw a shuttle with a kid on it get Reap'd." You could hear other voices in the dreams, and I started wondering if this was all foreshadowing for the true nature of the Reapers etc.

That turned out to fall pretty much off a cliff though, once the third sequence came along and I couldn't find anything cohesive in my mess of ideas.

REGARDING LOVE INTERESTS:

I kind of wish Bioware was a tad more even-handed regarding love interests as opposed to imposing its own preferences on you and giving some romances greater closure than others? Though I will concede that, for the most part, I was satisfied with what I've seen and read.

...Despite my general dislike for Jacob as a character I'm not sure how I feel about the racist undertones of the African American male being the only love interest who actually unilaterally breaks up with you and hooks up with another person, though. All the Caucasians and the aliens are steadfast and loyal, meanwhile he abandons you? It doesn't even really fit Jacob's character, like he was always boring but also a solid friend and a decent person, and I'd honestly have suspected Jack or Miranda would be more the 'love 'em and leave 'em,' noncommittal types.

...They handled Tali, Garrus and Liara right though and maybe that's all that mattered. And I'll definitely give Bioware massive props for handling the maleShep / Kaidan romance with surprising dexterity and depth; their interactions are arguably better than femShep / Kaidan. Traynor and Cortez were solid additions too, although I do sort of feel Bioware over-defensively thrust their gayness into the spotlight too soon and didn't let Traynor and Cortez develop organically into sympathetic, likable characters before hitting homophobic assholes with the hammer of "Oh yeah, by the way, they're totally gay."

I liked both Traynor and Cortez? And I played hetero and it wasn't even made obvious they were gay? My experience is actually the exact opposite of this so-called "thrusting gayness." A description which evokes some interesting imagery for me, by the way. The romances were pretty well done. Wish they hadn't shown Tali's face at all. The mystery was alluring.

REGARDING THANE:

I felt Thane was one of two characters that Bioware unapologetically and absolutely got 100% right; just felt like articulating that here before y'all presumed I hated everything about the game.
...The other character, of course, was Garrus.

I neither liked nor hated Thane from ME2, so it might carry additional weight for me when I say that I also liked how Thane was treated in ME3. His life and death were extremely meaningful.

REGARDING GAMEPLAY:

...Okay, okay, the gameplay's the best in the series, Bioware did an amazing job there, it's better than ME1 and ME2 in every conceivable way, battles against Reapers and Cerberus are hella fun.
I just wish Bioware spent a little less time perfecting the battles and a little more time working out all the kinks in its damn story.

My one criticism of gameplay: That awful Reaper battle on Rannoch. Our major face-off against a Reaper and...all we're doing is dodging and...aiming some Orbital Striking weapon. If we took out a 'Human Reaper' in development in ME2, and the scope and the brutality of battles was supposed to increase in ME3, it'd have been cool to actually take even a single small Reaper head-on. Give us some of that Atomic heavy weaponry in ME2 and let us go berserk!

-Ammo powers reset! Ffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!
-General lack of huge enemies, not just the Reaper fight. What happened to Geth Armatures and Colossi? Did they all go on vacation?
-Riding off the lack of Geth unit types, I found the enemy variety overall got a little anemic by the time.


REGARDING THE ENDINGS:

...Actually, I really don't have anything to add there that hasn't already been said.

EDIT: One thing I will say about the ending is that it's just stupid that [SPOILER]Shepard, if he brought peace to the Geths and the Quarians, didn't totally say "Hey Catalyst, you know a synthetic race and the organic race that created them is working together against the Reapers?" Like, doesn't that completely defeat the premise of the argument?

"Organics always create synthetics that destroy organics."
"Oh, hey, I know a few Geth who'd say otherwise. Also, there's this AI on our ship who doesn't seem interested in killing us."

Pretty easy answer is that the peace is extremely temporary, especially on astronomical time scales. Given the lore of the Mass Effect universe too, it seems to me like peaceful AIs are the exception, not the rule. So you're right, that line for Shepard should have been in there, but the Catalyst's counterargument would be there just as easily.

But I mean, fuck, I didn't like the three choices either. Part of that is because I found it hard to make those choices, in a GOOD way. I actually wasn't sure what was best for the galaxy, out of those three. The synthesis one was just plain fucking retarded, in a hippie-joining-hands-circle kind of way, so I picked that one. I have a save game not far from the end, so I'll probably play the other options to experience them again for myself. The ending wasn't what I wanted, for sure, but accepting THAT, I was also displeased with the presentation of the available endings.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Pretty easy answer is that the peace is extremely temporary, especially on astronomical time scales. Given the lore of the Mass Effect universe too, it seems to me like peaceful AIs are the exception, not the rule. So you're right, that line for Shepard should have been in there, but the Catalyst's counterargument would be there just as easily.

I'm not so sure. The Geth seemed to arrive at a pretty solid logical conclusion. If, even after all the shit the Quarians put them through the Geth can remain a rational and in my opinion peaceful race, then I'm not sure we can conclude that synthetics have a predisposition toward rebellion.

Ultimately if Synthetics do constantly wipe out organics it's probably because Organics have this amazing ability to start shit for no goddamn reason every now and then and the Synthetics just don't fucking get it.

[Azisien]

I'm not so sure. The Geth seemed to arrive at a pretty solid logical conclusion. If, even after all the shit the Quarians put them through the Geth can remain a rational and in my opinion peaceful race, then I'm not sure we can conclude that synthetics have a predisposition toward rebellion.

Ultimately if Synthetics do constantly wipe out organics it's probably because Organics have this amazing ability to start shit for no goddamn reason every now and then and the Synthetics just don't fucking get it.

Yeah, and, so? I figure peace could be broken by either side. Suppose my initial writing over-emphasized crazy AI but um, I also include crazy organics in my logic, of which there are plenty.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yeah, and, so? I figure peace could be broken by either side. Suppose my initial writing over-emphasized crazy AI but um, I also include crazy organics in my logic, of which there are plenty.

All you said in that particular snippet was that peaceful AI are the exception, which would imply that fucknut batshit genocidal AI are the norm.
All I said was that I don't agree with that.

[Bells]

You are given EDI as an example of what the Geth may become once they achieve Independence. The counter weight being that the path to bring them closer to that is letting they become closer to reapers.

An independent Geth nation could be the best thing ever for the Galaxy, or you pretty much ends up enabling Space-Skynet to come by.

At least that's what the game tries to play out for you

[Azisien]

All you said in that particular snippet was that peaceful AI are the exception, which would imply that fucknut batshit genocidal AI are the norm.
All I said was that I don't agree with that.

I respect your stance, actually. It's up for interpretation, honestly. But I really do think peace would be pretty temporary. Even if "temporary" is 100 years, or 200. That's all a shadow to the billions that will pass.

[01d55]

In Re: Big Choices, ME3 gives you two and if you import there's a strong chance that you've set yourself up for a Better Way, and if you have that setup and don't take the Better Way you're a chump. I think that's a fair way of respecting the effort of playing through all 3 games. (In my first play I didn't have living Wrex because I didn't have the ability to save him on Virmire, and I felt the bite of his loss. Curiously, loyal Mordin dying on the Collector Base still allowed things to work out for the better. Mordin's substitute is an interesting character in his own right and I wish I remembered his name, he deserves it.)

In Re: The Crucible choice, they have a similar thing where you have a choice and can unlock A Better Way (synthesis) via sufficient Effective Military Strength. But the thing is, if you've unlocked yourself the Better Way to solve Rannoch, the Catalyst's presentation of the problem has been proven false.

If you don't broker peace between Geth and organics, the Catalyst's Trilemma is almost credible. You'd have to make the argument that EDI can be sapient without being alive (because she doesn't reproduce and therefore her "species" doesn't develop) but it's colorable.

If you do broker that peace they ought to literally drop onto that balcony and say "Hey what's going on in this thread?" And then Catalyst gives them the spiel and they're like "Aw hell naw, we and the Creators be chillin' now that Shep sorted us out." "War between Organics and Synthetics is no more inevitable that war between differing groups of Organics." (oh hey that's actually consistent with their voice.) And like, there could be a fourth choice opened up: The Geth go to the control terminal and take control of the Reapers, in a dramatically appropriate reversal of their multiple efforts to control The Geth.

"But how will Shepard die her foreshadowed death?" She bleeds out, because that was happening. The Geth could mummify her corpse and set it next to Legion's inert platform in an unintentionally creepy display of respect.

Moving on, another thing that rubs me the wrong was is how the ending acts as an across-the-board reset for the entire setting - it turns out that the long term consequences of victory eclipse every other choice you can make. Many have pointed out that destroying the relays is stranding what's left of the allied fleets in the local cluster, dividing the galactic community for generations, and separates the Krogan and Turian leaders from their homeworlds (so Wreav will never have the opportunity to make a mess of things).

A friend of mine said the whole ending fiasco was the sort of thing Grant Morrison would do if he'd been brought in at the last minute to write the ending. Sounds right to me.

[stefan]

A friend of mine said the whole ending fiasco was the sort of thing Grant Morrison would do if he'd been brought in at the last minute to write the ending. Sounds right to me.

no, Grant Morrison would have written an ending where it turns out Shepard is the Enduring Omnidimensional Spirit of Human Perseverance or some shit while the Reapers are The Embodiment Of Societal Conformity, and the final battle is Giant Shepard vs. NegaReaper in infinite literature space, battling for the fate of all science fiction everywhere.

and you know what? I probably would like that better.

[Solid Snake]

Pretty easy answer is that the peace is extremely temporary, especially on astronomical time scales. Given the lore of the Mass Effect universe too, it seems to me like peaceful AIs are the exception, not the rule. So you're right, that line for Shepard should have been in there, but the Catalyst's counterargument would be there just as easily.

Oh, I completely agree that the Catalyst, having gone through these shenanigans for dozens upon dozens of prior iterations, would probably treat Shepard's arguments with disdain and easily respond to them. I'm just surprised that Shepard wouldn't bring it up.

...For that matter, I think it's a huge mistake for Bioware to have not included your squadmates in the final confrontation. More so than most other games, even most other RPGs, Mass Effect shines when the spotlight is on its stellar supporting cast. Shepard on his/her own, as an avatar, isn't terribly compelling; Shepard with his/her friends, interacting, is incredibly compelling.

To that end, every character -- even ME2 squadmates who weren't squadmates in ME3 -- should have been there in the end. That would have fortified the decisions you made along the way, as you'd either have tons of support or little of it. And I'd say characters like Garrus and Liara and Javik deserved to be there, just about as much as Shepard did. It would have been a much more powerful and more palatable scene if the Kid's philosophical ramblings were interrupted by input from your friends, whether they're physically present or even if the Catalyst just uses lol reaper magic to present them as holographs from afar or something.

...And, fuck, your love interest should have at least been there. You and your love interest are in love, right? You should totally have the choice to be like "I want you by your side," and your LI should totally be like "This is the most important moment of our lives; there's no way I won't have your back here and now."

...So much missed potential, Bioware. So much missed potential.
I'm not even sure if the endings themselves piss me off so much or if it's more that there were ways to write the buildup to the endings that would enable the endings to actually present definitive closure, and we got absolutely none of that. The endings were bad too, on their own objective merits, but I've suffered through lackluster endings with kooky twists before and felt okay so long as I've had some degree of closure. Even a scene between Anderson and Shepard, which was fully voiced and everything but cut down in the end by Bioware, would've been something. (I'd include a link but I'm in class.)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

To that end, every character -- even ME2 squadmates who weren't squadmates in ME3 -- should have been there in the end. That would have fortified the decisions you made along the way, as you'd either have tons of support or little of it. And I'd say characters like Garrus and Liara and Javik deserved to be there, just about as much as Shepard did. It would have been a much more powerful and more palatable scene if the Kid's philosophical ramblings were interrupted by input from your friends, whether they're physically present or even if the Catalyst just uses lol reaper magic to present them as holographs from afar or something.

...And, fuck, your love interest should have at least been there. You and your love interest are in love, right? You should totally have the choice to be like "I want you by your side," and your LI should totally be like "This is the most important moment of our lives; there's no way I won't have your back here and now."

Or hey since these are characters that have influenced Shepard and have in turn been influenced by him maybe they could all just chip in as a vague memory. What would Garrus think? Would he choose differently if you'd encouraged him to apply for SPECTRE status?
Shit, something like that could have made a person change their minds about what they wanted to do at the last moment.

[Azisien]

What I'm really concerned about is why didn't shepard at some point jump off a gaping hole in the Normandy's hull to slash at Harbinger with his omni-sword that EDI had hacked to deliver the full force of the Normandy Thanix Cannons?

[Bells]

What I'm really concerned about is why didn't shepard at some point jump off a gaping hole in the Normandy's hull to slash at Harbinger with his omni-sword that EDI had hacked to deliver the full force of the Normandy Thanix Cannons?

Because if that had happened, this would be the Ending to mass effect 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw)

[Krylo]

I fail to see the problem with that, Bells.

[Solid Snake]

Stop getting my hopes up, random ME gamers.
I can't afford to get my hopes up over a theory that can't possibly be true (http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/1)

[Bells]

I fail to see the problem with that, Bells.

Yknow... i fail to see it either.

If it was another time i would dare to put a bet on "We haven't uncovered everything yet". But truth is that people nowadays rip trough game discs so fast that if there is a single file or movie that makes a difference people will find it. If it takes longer than a week, than it's probably not there to be found...

All and all, let us be honest here... it was a rushed ending. Everything after the Final Push felt rushed and incomplete. Just the idea that in ME2 you invested all your team into a final push, and that in ME3 it's all "This is the mother of all battles... pick just 2" already proves that to me.

The final push is the Last battle (which makes the last Boss be Kai Leng, which actually reminds me that all Boss battles in ME3 are a bit lacking, even though that are properly fitted to the scenario we're playing), And it feels incomplete. It's just Waves and waves on survival mode (and a insta-kill Reaper beam that hits your Missile tank and does not do any damage at all... silly, since there are loads of Missions where you need to protect a target that has a Life Bar of it's own...) .

Since there is quite a bit of dialog there, makes me wonder at what point they came to the conclusion of "We can't take this any further, we need to wrap this up here". Because, another "Suicide Mission" as a Raid on the Citadel might be a bit repetitive, but i'm ok with repeating a good thing... i was fully Waiting for the illusive man to go all "Assuming Direct Control" on me, but you can kill him with dialog....!

As for the special super duper ending... it's pretty clear pandering to the crowd... Shepard is Alive somewhere in the Galaxy, like a Galatic Robinson Crusoe. Every one thinks he is dead, nobody knows where he is, and there is no tech to find or get him back. The end...

i can only wonder if this was the Game the original creators and writers wanted to give us, if this was their true vision for the trilogy or if it was just a necessity out of lacking resources or time...

[Arcanum]

I'm quoting this here because fuck having three Mass Effect threads.

Hey so remember how bullshit it was when you learned a Phantom can sync-kill you?

Well it turns out Reapers have this thing called a Banshee that's armored and teleports and can sync-kill you. Have fun dodging Ravager volleys while fleeing your suddenly Banshee-infested cover!

Banshees, Brutes, Phantoms, and Atlases (is that the plural of Atlas?) can all insto-kill you. I have yet to see a Geth perform an insto-kill grab move, but even the crazy vanguards I've seen get grabbed by an Atlas don't stay near a Prime for more than half a second.

Also, if you can make the Banshee stagger right when she starts to grab someone, it will force her to let go. This is probably possible with the other insto-kill grabs, but the Banshee's grab has the longest windup before death giving you more time to chuck a grenade at her feet or something (I got her to stagger with a sticky grenade at her feet and saved my teammate).

While on the subject of Multiplayer, oh my god the Quarian and Salarian Infiltrators are the absolute greatest at fighting Geth. Quarian obiviously because of Sabotage, and you get to make the Geth dance like puppets.

My Salarian I specced for sniping, and I found out a nice trick. When you're cloaked, after you fire a sniper round and break the cloak, there's a brief moment between shooting and when the cloak is disabled (thus triggering the cooldown). So after you fire a bullet, you can fire off a quick Energy Drain (or Proxy Mine) before your cloak's cooldown kicks in. I was playing on Silver, and very few geth survived a cloaked headshot+drain combo.

[Japan]

FYI camel toe is an occupational hazard for all Action Girls.

[Bells]

Banshees are really problematic to deal with. Brutes i can take care of... those silly Space ninjas i can take care of. Pretty much anything i can brutalize with my squad. Just Take down their shield, soften them up with AOE attacks and heavy weapons to close the deal...

But, maybe i got lucky for playing Engineer... i noticed that, keeping a distance, then using Overload and my Defense bot i can keep the banshee in check. it can't teleport under overload or after it does it's Barrier-explosion attack, and the Ai is good on catching it's attention, so all you have to do is press at it with a lot of fire.

Tee bad part is when you have to deal with 2 or 3 at the same time... GUH!

[Marc v4.0]

Banshees are stupid easy once you get a decently-tiered Scorpion, and even a Falcon.

[Sifright]

Banshees are stupid easy once you get a decently-tiered Scorpion, and even a Falcon.

One thing I will admit is that banshees really screw with a vanguard, i'll dive straight into Atlases and geth primes with out huge worries but the moment I see a banshee it's back to playing a cover based shooter again to dangerous upclose and they are the only enemy that can grab you for an insta kill during your biotic charge, finding that out wasn't pleasant it was accompanied by much rage

[Bells]

I still haven't found anything that beats the loadout of Carnex / Scorpion / Arc with Geth Rifle / Pulse Rifle and Geth Shotgun / Claymore on your team. Never actually needed to worry about Machine Guns.

The only one ever to have an Sniper rifle on my watch was Garrus.


BTW guys: Free armor and Weapon for your future plays

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reckoner_Knight_Armor

[Marc v4.0]

the Armor is meh, but that Launcher is very nice. Garrus and Vega carried that little toy for a while. The shots aren't fast but the discs are explosive so it is an early-game rifled Scorpion, pretty much

[Arcanum]

So apparently there are multiplayer classes and races that aren't shown, only accessible through the DLC attached to the various action figures. (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/13/rumor-mass-effect-3-multiplayer-dlc-spotted/)

Or, like suggested in the link, find some sort of test DLC that unlocks everything.

Dunno how legit this is (and I've never seen anyone playing as any of those classes yet), but if it is then it's both lame and awesome at the same time. Awesome because more multiplayer race/class combos is great. Lame because EA is going to want money for this stuff.

[Marc v4.0]

So apparently there are multiplayer classes and races that aren't shown, only accessible through the DLC attached to the various action figures. (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/13/rumor-mass-effect-3-multiplayer-dlc-spotted/)

Or, like suggested in the link, find some sort of test DLC that unlocks everything.

Dunno how legit this is (and I've never seen anyone playing as any of those classes yet), but if it is then it's both lame and awesome at the same time. Awesome because more multiplayer race/class combos is great. Lame because EA is going to want money for this stuff.

All of your questions will be answered in the upcoming DLC "Mass Effect 3: The Search for More Money"

yup

[Arcanum]

So I was playing my human vanguard, charging around and throwing off novas. When all of a sudden, for some reason, I was glitched a few feet above the ground. My screen would shake as the character model tried to fall to the ground and then warp back up to it's hovering position in the air. If i went into cover, I would be crouched floating in the air.

And then it got weird and I began to fly. First I was stuck in a room (it was on the Tuchanka level, Firebase Giant I think), and then a geth killed me and I warped under the level. Then when I tried to move, I was warped 20 feet above the level. And then I started to float upwards. Get would shoot me and my health would drop down to being nonexistant, but I still lived and floated upwards.

I snapped a few pics of my lofty perch with my cellphone that I might upload later. Then the host left and the round restarted and everything was back to normal.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Finished the game last night. Ending is indeed meh. Intrigued by the theory it was all a hallucination/indoctrination, prefer to beleive that is so.

Decided to destroy the Reapers myself, so assuming indoctrination theory is accurate, I made the right choice (or at least, the best choice given the options). Still unsatisfied in general though.

Other thoughts/confusions/grievances:

On War Assets.
Given that once you get to the end you can just pick the ending you want, I'm assuming that collecting the war assets and increasing your readiness basically amounts to fluff for the final battles, stuff that goes on in the background. I got about 3000 effective strength and didn't increase readiness at all. I feel as though I could have just not bothered with a lot of it and still got the same ending. I was under the impression that it would be more like the suicide mission from ME2, where aquiring allies and buffing them up would actually help to make things easier. This did not appear to be the case.

On Rachni.
I never got the chance to choose what had happened to the Rachni from ME1 (playing on ps3, didn't get the backstory comic initially), so when I started this game it turned out that the Rachni were dead, which made it feel pretty cheap when the game just went "lol, nah, we just brought them back anyway so that choice you made, pretty meaningless." I get that if characters had died in previous games that they were simply replaced by others to take their place for major events, but in the case of the Rachni, it doesn't make sense or even try to explain it. Where did this queen come from? How did the Reapers make more Rachni out of thin air?

Furthermore, after I decided to save this new queen and had them working on the Crucible, things appeared fine, until later in the game I got a random update on one of my engineering assets which said they had been wiped out by their Rachni "allies", who had suddenly and inexplicably turned on them. This was not explained at any point, in any cutscene and left me very confused. I eventually got to ask Hackett about the Rachni, only to be told "Let's not go down that road again, it didnt work out." Erm, ok...

An explaination would have been nice.

On geth.
Legion died in ME2 for me. I figured this was probably going to seriously hinder any attempt to bring about peace, but I continued regardless. I was also unsure if killing the heretics would help or hinder peace negotiations, though it turns out it only buffs the quarian fleet after you aquire them, because there were less geth to fight during their invasion.

When Legion/Not-Legion turned up again, I was slightly irked, since it felt like the Rachni "back from the dead" thing again, which made Legions death seem somewhat trivialised. Nether the less, Not-Legion appeared willing to co-operate, like his predecessor, so I hope peaceful resolutions might be back on the table. Then came the aftermath of the Reaper fight, and things went to hell. I hoped I could get the geth still, so I had Legion start uploading the code to give the other geth sentience, but it quickly became apparant that the quarians weren't going to cease their attack, so I was forced to kill Not-Legion anyway to save the quarians.

All in all, the entire attempt to save both the geth and the quarians, with the possibilities off the table then on the table then off again, and the cheap "not quite" ressurection of Legion felt very confusing and infuriating all round.

On romance.
I play femshep. I had not romanced anyone previously, partly due to uncertainty on who to go for and partly mistakes in dialogue options which screwed me out of every potential. Then Bioware announced gay and lesbian romance options being avilable and my path became clear; Tali was now available! Joy!

Only she wasn't, as I discovered to my dismay as I got nearer the end and things hadn't happened. A look on the wiki revealed the truth; she was probably the ONLY character femshep can't romance.

Why Bioware? Why would you do this? Of all the characters to not be available, why the one that (I'm sure) a lot of people would have chosen for femshep? And to rub it all in, I later walk in on her and Garrus together. Screw you Bioware, screw you! You actually made me angry and jealous at my 2 favourite characters.

So my Shep ended up alone. Again.

All in all, I'm somewhat dissapointed and generally confused by several things, partly design decisions, partly plot related. I know some of that could be rectified by making the "right" decisions, but I wasn't necessarily trying to metagame the series. I deliberately chose not to undo my decisions or reload saves if things went wrong, so I could just let the story flow naturally, but in the end lots of things felt cheap, others made me feel cheated and others left me overall unsatisfied.

Mordin and Thanes deaths were the only truly great moments in the plot, and I didn't even care much about Thane in ME2, so props to them there.

ME2 was far better though.

EDIT; And oh yeah, where was my goddamn merc army Aria T'loak? I didn't see a single vorcha or Blue Sun mech or anything during the final battle. Did she screw me over after all?

[Arcanum]

edit-- Oh wow this turned out longer than I meant it to be. Oh well.

So the Salarian Infiltrator is the very best class, and no other class can hold a candle to it.

"But the Asari Adept is op!" I hear you cry out in vain. Please. The Asari Adept is like a kitten compared to monstrous beast that is the Salarian Infiltrator.

Here's my build (roughly, and with some guesses, since I haven't actually looked at my Salarian build in a while, and my 360 is downstairs and I'm on my laptop):

Weapon: Widow. Dear god this rifle is amazing.

Tac. Cloak: Specced for sniping (i.e. damage, headshot damage, etc)
Energy Drain: Specced for damage, full barrier recharge, and damage resistance
Prox. Mine: Increased blast radius and (this is the most important part) 20% additional damage to targets for 15 seconds. I didn't bother with the lvl 6 upgrade, though you could forsake the 3 points into fitness and grab it if you want.
Slarian passive: Increased weight capacity, headshot damage, reduced sniper weight.
Fitness: 3 leftover points go here

Why it's the best around:

When you break cloak you have the damage bonus for about 2-3 seconds. This means you can energy drain a shielded target and then kill them with a body shot. Any target. At all. (On Silver at least, have yet to move up to gold mostly because I don't want to bother wasting my time with terrible randoms).

As for any other target that can't be killed in one shot (I.e. Atlas, Brutes, Banshees, Phantoms if you miss the headshot, Ravagers, etc) you use your proximity mine. I've looked around and SO many people underestimate the proxy mine, and I'll admit I did too. Until I realized how much of a difference 20% bonus damage makes on an already Tac Cloak boosted Widow shot. What's double great is that firing a proxy mine from Cloak makes the cloak cooldown go off, and not the overly long Proxy Mine cooldown.

But WHY is this so amazing? Well I can kill a Brute, on Silver, in two shots. TWO. Well to be fair it's not just widow shots. I cloak, fire a proxy mine at the brute followed up by a widow shot while the cloak's damage boost is still active. So long as the brute is super far away, the proxy mine will hit before I shoot, and there goes half of the brute's hp. Repeat, brute is dead.

What makes this even more amazing is that proxy mine's 20% vulnerability means that everyone on your team does additional damage to the target. Banshees, Atlases, and Geth Primes drop like flies.

And then there's all the smaller things that make the Infiltrator awesome, like being able to activate outposts while cloaked and complete objectives faster, or cloaking and reviving teammates.

So yeah, nothing can beat the Salarian Infiltrator.

[Sifright]

if your on origin add me my user name is sifright on origin

[Arcanum]

Link (http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/)
Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You'll hear more on this in April.
[...]
This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content

So in other words:

All of your questions will be answered in the upcoming DLC "Mass Effect 3: The Search for More Money"

[Azisien]

I'm honestly starting to feel a little sympathetic for Bioware et al. Some of the detractors have been outright destructive and taking this to a level that's just ridiculous. I know I would feel awful if I were a member of the development team, too.

[Melfice]

I'm honestly starting to feel a little sympathetic for Bioware et al. Some of the detractors have been outright destructive and taking this to a level that's just ridiculous. I know I would feel awful if I were a member of the development team, too.

Yeah, honestly... aside from the bit where Hudson apparently said the ending wouldn't be a A B or C decision, and then it turned out it was, the game was top notch (some issues here and there, but what game doesn't?), and the ending very enjoyable and emotional.

Was there such an outcry when Star Wars: KotOR 2: TSL was such a disappointment (compared to the original)?
Or this is the effect of the modern day internet at work?

Because if I go by the interbutts, Mass Effect 3 just travelled to the future, raped and murdered my children, went back in time to the present to show me the Virtual Reality video to cause me distress and then went even further back in time to euthanize me just after birth ensuring I wouldn't even be typing this.

A mild exaggeration, of course, but some people are really taking this a bit too far.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yeah, honestly... aside from the bit where Hudson apparently said the ending wouldn't be a A B or C decision, and then it turned out it was, the game was top notch (some issues here and there, but what game doesn't?), and the ending very enjoyable and emotional.

Was there such an outcry when Star Wars: KotOR 2: TSL was such a disappointment (compared to the original)?
Or this is the effect of the modern day internet at work?

Because if I go by the interbutts, Mass Effect 3 just travelled to the future, raped and murdered my children, went back in time to the present to show me the Virtual Reality video to cause me distress and then went even further back in time to euthanize me just after birth ensuring I wouldn't even be typing this.

A mild exaggeration, of course, but some people are really taking this a bit too far.

Eh.
With KOTOR I think the thing was that it was obviously just rushed. I think that made people more depressed or sad than actually angry.
The spirit and qualities that would have made it a good game existed, but there was nowhere near enough testing for bugs and much of the content in the disc wasn't available.

[Osterbaum]

I preferred KOTOR II to KOTOR I overall. Basically everything except the ending.

[Melfice]

Eh.
With KOTOR I think the thing was that it was obviously just rushed. I think that made people more depressed or sad than actually angry.
The spirit and qualities that would have made it a good game existed, but there was nowhere near enough testing for bugs and much of the content in the disc wasn't available.

Yeah, I realize this.
Still, it's the closest thing I can find to a comparison for a "disappointment" of this magnitude.

[Osterbaum]

How about DA2?

e: except you know, not just the ending but the whole game

[stefan]

I'm honestly starting to feel a little sympathetic for Bioware et al.

I don't.

[Melfice]

How about DA2?

e: except you know, not just the ending but the whole game

Funny thing that...
While I'm a bit disappointed with it, it's more over the fact that you can tell it's rushed.

Other than that, DA2 was an improvement across the board.

But, hey. That's crazy talk from somebody who totally loved ME3, ending and all. So, if you want, feel free to ignore that.

[Ramary]

Other than that, DA2 was an improvement across the board.

Even the Zerg rush of enemies at all times?
Even though from what I understand it did not really have a central plot at all, just a collection of "Misadventures of some guy named Hawke"?

[stefan]

Dunno if anyone's mentioned it yet, but now shit is getting bananas, as Bioware and Mass Effect 3 have been reported to the Federal Trade Commission for false advertising claims. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/17/mass-effect-3-ending-fighter-goes-to-the-ftc.aspx)

I feel I should note that whether or not you believe the person is justified in this action, they are entirely within their rights to report the game for what they believe is a legit grievance, and the sheer amount of backlash against them is hilarious.

IMHO, there may be an entitlement problem in the gaming community, but if those comments are any indication then the people with an entitlement problem aren't the players.

[Melfice]

Even the Zerg rush of enemies at all times?
Even though from what I understand it did not really have a central plot at all, just a collection of "Misadventures of some guy named Hawke"?

... I did not experience a Zerg rush at any point in time. Not more than in Dragon Age: Origins anyway.
And the plot was there, if you gave it a chance. "Misadventures of some guy named Hawke" was very much part of it though.

But, yes. I think DA2 was an improvement "despite" all that. Especially gameplay-wise.

[Krylo]

Even the Zerg rush of enemies at all times?This is actually from being rushed, as well. They didn't have time to properly test combat balance with all the changes, so they just made respawning enemies to create something similar, instead of harder to balance single wave battles.

This becomes especially apparent when you play the DLC and they don't exist in them, instead having those well balanced single wave encounters. Also the DA2 DLC is some of the best DLC I've played for a game.


Even though from what I understand it did not really have a central plot at all, just a collection of "Misadventures of some guy named Hawke"?That's what Character Driven Story means, in general.

I mean there's a world changing plot, but it's not the focus because why does Hawke care about all this stuff until it impacts him/her? Hawke just wanted to get away from the blight and live outside of the gutters of refugee camps.

[Ramary]

That's what Character Driven Story means, in general.


Oh I don't have a problem with this at all.

If you know the main character was actually a character. But like Shepard and other game protagonists, the main character is basically a blank slate, and it is up to you if he/she is nice/a jerk/or just bland(neutral).

The Old Republic has this problem. All of the class stories seem to be essentially just collections of adventures, thinking that your character can carry it, when your character will always be stock so you can appeal to him/her. (although Dark Side Imperial Agent is hilarious as it seems he does his best to out jerk every Sith around). It just never really worked for me.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Oh I don't have a problem with this at all.

If you know the main character was actually a character. But like Shepard and other game protagonists, the main character is basically a blank slate, and it is up to you if he/she is nice/a jerk/or just bland(neutral).

The Old Republic has this problem. All of the class stories seem to be essentially just collections of adventures, thinking that your character can carry it, when your character will always be stock so you can appeal to him/her. (although Dark Side Imperial Agent is hilarious as it seems he does his best to out jerk every Sith around). It just never really worked for me.

Old Republic's narrative sort of falls apart when you have a party though.

As me and Ramary went through it up to level fifteen twice we played opposing sides of Dark and Light side choices. These choices were left up to a roll. So if Ramary was playing his Sith Agent and I my light side bounty hunter, we rolled based on what we wanted and if he won we chose the Dark Side option. I would still get light side points because I chose otherwise, but the circumstances of whatever mission we had next were based on that roll we got.
But then, based on the choice we get the options based on that choice. Without a mention that my character never really agreed to that choice in the first place. So while apparently my character didn't really want to let Ramary shoot that kid in the face, the next dialogue option might have let her laugh about it.

[Krylo]

Hey, just because you wouldn't kick someone in the bojangles, that doesn't mean it's not funny when it happens.

[Ramary]

Hey, just because you wouldn't kick someone in the bojangles, that doesn't mean it's not funny when it happens.

I agree, it was HILARIOUS when I killed the Captain of this cruiser in cold blood, then hijacked his ship for some Grand Moff I just met and used it to attack a Republic ship.

And then the rest of the crew killed each other during a mutiny cause they thought I was gonna kill the rest of them too.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

It's hard being a light side character working for the Sith empire.
Especially when your partner keeps shooting people.

[Ramary]

Actually the sad thing is that I have experienced how fun TOR is in co-op, now I can not stand playing by myself anymore.

Thanks Karesh, you jerk.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The prequel saga would have been saved if Darth Maul and Obi-won teamed up and decided who got to make each decision randomly.

[Ramary]

The prequel saga would have been saved if Darth Maul and Obi-won teamed up and decided who got to make each decision randomly.

P3ALwKeSEYs

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Actually the sad thing is that I have experienced how fun TOR is in co-op, now I can not stand playing by myself anymore.

Thanks Karesh, you jerk.

http://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gifhttp://localhostr.com/file/CEvvs44/sunshinetag.gif

[Bells]

EXTRA! EXTRA!

Co-Founder of Bioware takes Super Classy action to please the fans and the internet shits all over him for actually giving a damn

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

I mean, it's really sad to see the actual RESPONSE he gets from this. I just thought it was superb! Sadly, some people are just self-entitled shits...

Call it Marketing PR if you like, but this Post alone was enough to make amends with any sour notes i had with ME3. I don't know what they will do, i don't know if i'll like it... but it's nice to see a developer who at least tries to give a damn AND protect it's team's vision at the same time.

As much as there is talks of Art and artistic integrity, even if you could apply it to gaming (which i think you only can with some twists), Mass Effect makes itself a whole new beast. It was made, designed and sold as an interactive artistic vision, a by-product of Player input. The first two games were acclaimed by it. It is as much as Bioware's vision as it is the player's.... so if ME3 falls flat, Bioware trying to listen and see what they can do to make it right seems... i guess i could say "noble", i think...

It is a product, it is a business you have to pay to enjoy it in full... if they can improve their game and care for player feedback, then i think this could be a great thing.

As long as the Bile from the shitty mass doesn't contaminate their pools... if that happens, everything is damned to hell

[stefan]

some people are just self-entitled shits...

I'm sorry, people are "self-entitled shits" because they are upset at the handling of a work in which they have massive emotional investment and, oh yeah, probably spent several hundred dollars on, and are making this displeasure clear in no uncertain terms?

[Ramary]

I think I can explain the fan reaction in 2 ways.

First is the "We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.". At this point Bioware is infamous for basically taking ANY criticism of their game on their forum, constructive or not, and blacking it out or outright editing people's post to make them appear like they support the game. It is like Stalinist Russia up in there, EVERYTHING is destructive commentary to Bioware there. So him saying that, to the fans, is basically saying "We are still just gonna pretend to listen".

And of course there is the whole "I KNEW IT! I KNEW THEY MADE THE ENDING SHITTY SO THEY COULD GIVE US THE GOOD ONE AS PAID DLC! ALERT THE UNITED NATIONS!!!"

EDIT: And also changing the ending to "a work of art" is seen as madness, even if it is bad(but hey, they did it with Fallout 3, and noone complained cause Broken Steel was one damn good DLC)

And can we cut the "self-entitlement" bullshit. That only really applies to people who complain about it and PIRATED it. If you actually bought it, you have every right as a consumer to complain about it.

[Osterbaum]

Co-Founder of Bioware takes Super Classy action to please the fans and the internet shits all over him for actually giving a damn
I'm not sure where the part about the internet shitting all over him is? Because the article itself doesn't have any comments, and I've come across no references, positive or negative, to this particular response anywhere else.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Not to sound like a "self-entitled shit", but while i'm in the thread I would like to complain about this clearly defective product that I payed £40 for. I just spent the last hour trying to play multiplayer. In 5 seperate attempts, the game either glitched out (3 times, almost in a row, leaving me jumping about all over the place, unable to climb ladders or get into cover properly, before throwing me randomly through the map), randomly diconnected (both whilst trying to join the game, while waiting for others to start (the entire room suddenly emptied despite 2 people having only just that second joined)) and once only moments after starting a match and once completely muting all sound right from the start.

And these are only the glitches I experianced in the last hour of trying to play, glitches which have been present from the demo and are still around now and which I have experianced many times.

So Bioware, whilst you're listening to constructive criticism, how about you get around to maybe fixing your damn multiplayer and making it work for once? Maybe? That'd be great thanks.

[stefan]

I'm not sure where the part about the internet shitting all over him is? Because the article itself doesn't have any comments, and I've come across no references, positive or negative, to this particular response anywhere else.

this whole claim kind of baffles me as well. I've been following this whole drama from right around when it started, and the people calling out Bioware have actually had a fairly decent level of classiness on average, with maybe the occasional outlier spewing profanity and rage.

Most of the dickishness seems to be coming from the people shouting down the first group and calling them entitled, misrepresenting them as wanting a sunshine-and-rainbows happy ending instead of merely wanting an ending that makes sense, putting forth a very, very misinformed understanding of artistic integrity and generally coming off as frothing nutcases angry that anyone would dare imply Bioware did something wrong.

[Azisien]

this whole claim kind of baffles me as well. I've been following this whole drama from right around when it started, and the people calling out Bioware have actually had a fairly decent level of classiness on average, with maybe the occasional outlier spewing profanity and rage.

Most of the dickishness seems to be coming from the people shouting down the first group and calling them entitled, misrepresenting them as wanting a sunshine-and-rainbows happy ending instead of merely wanting an ending that makes sense, putting forth a very, very misinformed understanding of artistic integrity and generally coming off as frothing nutcases angry that anyone would dare imply Bioware did something wrong.

I dunno, I follow multiple Bioware pages (including non-ME ones) on Facebook and Twitter, and literally no matter what they post about, it's all spam along the lines of "the ending sucked" and "this is only the red version of <Bioware post in question>!" And of course, the back-and-forth arguments surrounding that.

I actually find the uproar humorous, and we have a while to see how the situation develops, but maybe some good will come out of this. And by good, I basically mean some high quality DLC that took the criticism to heart. Not really interested in seeing Bioware get sued or shut down or whatever happens with FTC/BBB/CryMoar Agency claims. I'm not optimistic enough to hope any kind of free content from this though. The empty, half-shell of a gamer I used to be has already come to the grim realization that free game content is effectively dead.

[Osterbaum]

All the complaints about the ending or the game in general I've come across have been, if not always constructive, not really all that dickish or assholish either. At worst they've seemed dissapointed. Now I'm sure some darker corners of the intrawebs have people just raging about it all not being able to act at least civil, but then again I don't really give those people a second thought. And again I haven't come across them myself.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Something I forgot to bring up here:
After Harbinger hits you with his gallick gun and you're staggering to the beam, the Illusive Man contacts you via radio. He tells you that his experiments were a success, and he's finally figured out how to control the Reapers. You can positively or negatively, per usual. "Have a little faith, Shepard." The ground quakes, and a huge crack starts to expand. This starts to play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhtZWkNa3YU

From the rubble emerges a massive figure: It's the Reaper Larvae, completed, weaponized and outfitted in Cerberus armor. As it rises, it picks up your wounded Shepard in its hand "Care to wear the Cerberus colors one last time, Commander?" You take control of the Cerberus mech. Harbinger lowers for the last confrontation. A brutal battle ensues, but it's clear Harbinger is still winning. The Illusive Man thought it wouldn't be enough on its own, which is when he reveals the true purpose of refitting the Normandy. The SR2 swoops in and transforms into a flightpack, combining with the mech and lending it a sword.

At this point, you can choose your final attack. A LI Heartbeam, a Shepard pelvic crusher, or the Humanity Slash. Harbinger is utterly destroyed, and it turns out he controlled every Reaper. They dead now. And everyone lived happily ever after.

[Osterbaum]

the fuck is that shit

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

the fuck is that shit

Ending you get if you visit Eltar and get their war assets.

[Azisien]

If there's actually any precedent (I don't think there is) re: the legal part of this, and it actually goes through, I am going to make my own game company with the millions I will get for suing Peter Molyneux for Every Single Word He's Uttered In An Interview.

Then I can just make my own space opera game with an ending I think is cool and there won't even be a problem anymore!

[Solid Snake]

Ehh.

Regarding the ME dilemma, I mean, there are good Bronies and there are crazy Bronies; there are talented Homestuck fans and there are "why the fuck does this even exist" Homestuck fans, etc.

In any movement or fanbase of sufficient size there are assholes and there are reasonable people.
I've talked in some threads with "Retake Mass Effect 3" fans who are genuinely considerate and constructive in their criticisms and who aren't so much demanding anything from Bioware as they simply wish to articulate their criticisms of the game. I've also talked in some threads with "Retake Mass Effect 3" 'fans' who simply want a happy cakes and sunshine ending, or who cuss out Casey Hudson every three words, or who believe Bioware owes them everything in existence because they purchased a $60 game. And, yes, some of the "Retake Mass Effect 3" people are really just homophobic and pissed off at the gay romance options because they're assholes.

...It's just kind of important to acknowledge the diversity before setting out in a generalized criticism, though. My major problem with journalists reporting on the phenomenon like Gamespot is their apparent inability to understand that it's not just the assholes. Like, Bioware wants to play up the most idiotic voices of criticism of their product, so then they can just dismiss all criticism and claim that everyone is homophobic, or everyone is a petulant child, and they're the reasonable folks in the room.

Personally, as someone who quite obviously hates how Bioware ended ME3, I'm actually kind of worried of what might happen if Bioware changes the ending, which is, if anything, indicative of my rather low faith of their ability to correctly discern what the critics are actually objecting to. Like, I think Bioware's going to simplify this into "Oh jeez, we'll need to provide a happy ending?" When really the vast majority of folks I've talked to, including myself, would prefer a bittersweet ending with dramatic effect.

It makes sense for Shepard to die. It even arguably could make sense for the relays to be destroyed and for civilization to pay a heavy price for the destruction of the Reapers. We'd just like less plotholes and more closure.

...I'd arguably rather have a refined ending that kept the color-coded bullshittery but simply explained why Joker abandoned the fight and started running and gave insight as to what the Normandy crew does next on that planet, than an ending where Shepard overcame 'Indoctrination' and the allied fleets magically won the day and the Reapers randomly shut down and there was a parade in Manhattan or some shit. I'd still think the ending was flawed, I mean there's no way a color-coded A-B-C ending with minimal practical differences in a Bioware RPG isn't flawed, but its flaws would simultaneously encompass Bioware's original vision while still showing gamers more respect in addressing pivotal questions that merited answers.

EDIT: Like, the key here is a distinction between what I'd want in an ideal world, and what I think it's actually reasonable to expect from Bioware.
That distinction is sometimes lost among some critics.
Like, I think the lack of closure and the crazy illogical plotholes in what appears to be a rushed, slapped-together ending demands a fix, because bad writing in the ending of a Bioware trilogy is just inexcusable.
But on the other hand, I don't expect Bioware to cater to what would be my personal desire of an epic ending in which three hundred different variables from all three games were accounted for in discerning the exact ending your Shepard gets.

...I think there's a difference between a reasonable criticism that articulates fatal flaws that desperately require resolution, and one's own personal fantasies of a 'perfect' gaming experience.
Like, I think the difference is: Are you bitching about a new ending because you just want YOUR ideal ending? If so, it's a futile aspiration. Even a new ending would still be Bioware's ending, not yours.
But if you're bitching about desiring a new ending so that you can even begin to understand what Bioware actually intended, because it's literally such a mess that you have no idea what the heck they were even trying to do, that's another matter entirely.

The ending can still be Bioware's ending.
I just want a Bioware ending that's actually written the way I know Bioware can write their endings.
Even Dragon Age: Origins incorporated some closure in its writeups of what happened after the fact that accounted for decisions you made in a way that was still Bioware's vision but that gave you a sense of personal accomplishment.

[stefan]

If there's actually any precedent (I don't think there is) re: the legal part of this, and it actually goes through, I am going to make my own game company with the millions I will get for suing Peter Molyneux for Every Single Word He's Uttered In An Interview.

I think its hilarious that you use Molyneux as an example here when he was one of the first devs who said "right, I fucked up bad, have an expansion of the game with more of shit you wanted in it"

Its also worth noting that one reason the Retake people are so mad is that a significant portion of Hudson's claims of diverse endings were made after ME3 exited development and went gold, and therefore he knew for a fact that he was lying.

[01d55]

Personally, as someone who quite obviously hates how Bioware ended ME3, I'm actually kind of worried of what might happen if Bioware changes the ending, which is, if anything, indicative of my rather low faith of their ability to correctly discern what the critics are actually objecting to.

You just spent 3 paragraphs,each longer than the last, explaining that the critics are actually objecting to everything!

[Azisien]

I think its hilarious that you use Molyneux as an example here when he was one of the first devs who said "right, I fucked up bad, have an expansion of the game with more of shit you wanted in it"


I'm laughing too! Because I'm rich! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpC2TXhJGkE)

[Sifright]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10405204/1

except for all the dev quotes and pr interviews that were after the game was gold and during it's certification process where they explicitly lied, this isn't even people complaining about stuff being pruned during the dev cycle because of tech limits. This is a company specifically bullshiting knowingly to ensure more sales it's fraud plain and simple and should be treated as such. You can argue about the scale of the fraud but that doesn't stop it being fraud.

So yes people are ENTITLED, (which by the way isn't an insult and I find the Internet community ridiculous for treating it as such) To seek some one way to tell companies doing this that they are fucking twats and need to cut that shit out right now if that means bioware gets destroyed in litigation tough shit for them but lets be honest that wont happen any way because they are owned by EA and ea will be lawyers lawyers lawyers lawyers until any complaints in legal setting die.

[Bells]

i should point out that the entire "Self-Entitled Shits" mostly comes from my own fault of seeing comments of this news on Tweeter, IGN, Kotaku and The Escapist.

...because actually those are just terrible places to get user feedback, so in hindsight, my bad on that one.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...dex/10405204/1

And yeah, this sounds bad. Although... i wouldn't be sure enough to say, but how many games stack up to the promisses and trailers? Either way, i still hold some faith that they might do right to their fanbase and things turn out nicely in the end.

Also, a bunch of the endings at the same time for those who didn't see it.

rPelM2hwhJA

[Marc v4.0]

A bunch of being "all of"

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

All of meaning basically the same ending run through a few filters.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

^My thoughts exactly to Marc and Karesh. Why you gota be ninja'ing my thoughts guys?!

And as an added bonus to reiterate the point;

http://i42.tinypic.com/s3lhqq.jpg

Yeah, I'd call that false advertising, when one of your lead people directly states something that turns out to be a complete lie. Hence why people are pissed, and can you really blame them?

[Solid Snake]

All of meaning basically the same ending run through a few filters.

Man I feel really bad for anyone playing the game who happens to be colorblind
"I thought I chose a different ending this time, but it looks exactly the same!"

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Does that count as discrimination against colour blind people then? Can we add that to the pile of potential lawsuits?

[Doc ock rokc]

OK I know people are tired about the complaints in the game but I was surfing the net and found this picture along with the guy saying that he would have accepted the ending if
http://i.imgur.com/ubMko.jpg
happened

[Azisien]

hzYLTbQQEZQ&list=FL3gcRCMKrW1OfjtVIAW_j_A&index=1&feature=plpp_video

Okay I like the direction they're taking at least.