EA officially declared worst business in America

[stefan]

http://consumerist.com/2012/04/congratulations-ea-you-are-the-worst-company-in-america-for-2012.html

Whether it's on a console, a PC, a smartphone or tablet, hundreds of millions of people play video games every day. Yet most mainstream media covers the industry the same way it treats adult dodge ball leagues and cat fashion shows (both noble ventures, but neither of them multi-billion dollar industries). And the only time you hear legislators discuss video games is when some politician decries them as the death knell for all things righteous in the world (hint: they're not). Now, after years of being ignored and relegated to steerage, game-players have voted to send a message to Electronic Arts and the gaming business as a whole: Stop treating your loyal customers like crap.

After more than 250,000 votes, Consumerist readers ultimately decided that the type of greed exhibited by EA, which is supposed to be making the world a more fun place, is worse than Bank of America's avarice, which some would argue is the entire point of operating a bank.

To those who might sneer at something as "non-essential" as a video game company winning the Worst Company In America vote: It's that exact kind of attitude that allows people to ignore the complaints as companies like EA to nickel and dime consumers to death.

For years, while movies and music became more affordable and publishers piled on bonus content — or multiple modes of delivery — as added value to entice customers to buy, video games have continued to be priced like premium goods.

There have even been numerous accusations that EA and its ilk deliberately hold back game content with the sole intent of charging a fee for it at a later date. It's one thing to support a game with new content that is worth the price. It's another to put out an inferior — and occasionally broken — product with the mindset of "ah, we'll fix it later and make some money for doing so."

New, independent game companies do pop up all the time, but the cost of entering the market has historically been too expensive, making these indie innovators prime targets for acquisition by mega-publishers like EA. Our hope is that the growth of app-based gaming and downloadable games will continue to make it easier for developers to get their products out without the backing of companies that don't care a lick about the people who fork over their cash.

Oh well, Worst Company In America 2012 is officially in the books. All that's left to do is send off the Golden Poo to EA.

Traditionally, the Poo has been delivered on its little red pillow. But this year, we'll give EA three different color options for its pillow, though in the end it's still the same old Poo.

[Solid Snake]

http://consumerist.com/2012/04/congratulations-ea-you-are-the-worst-company-in-america-for-2012.html

Traditionally, the Poo has been delivered on its little red pillow. But this year, we'll give EA three different color options for its pillow, though in the end it's still the same old Poo.

Hahaha
I like you, Consumerist.

[Ramary]

We're sure that British Petroleum, AIG, Philip Morris, and Halliburton are all relieved they weren't nominated this year. We're going to continue making award-winning games and services played by more than 300 million people worldwide.

Love the blame dodging they are doing here. They also said something along the lines of "But we have Bioware, everyone loves them" in a way that they ignore the thing in which everyone HATES them for ruining Bioware.

[Flarecobra]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bkf7GJlNIs8/T26jvF8z-8I/AAAAAAAAC64/sMJiVCWH8QM/s640/YEAH3.png

That is all. And about damn time someone saw what a good chunk of people have been saying.

EDIT: Where did you find that quote there Ramary?

[Amake]

I want to know where they get that 300 million customers figure. Isn't there something like 100 million people who own computers in the world? I could buy that they have sold 300 million copies of all their games combined.

And no, having 300 million customers doesn't mean you're absolved of doing any wrong. That's just the sort of thing that happens when you've bought out like half the market.

When you think about it I guess giving EA your money is still better than giving it to Halliburton or Dow Chemical or something. They are definitely a less evil corporation than any given war profiteering business. Electronic Arts are probably not guilty of any war crimes, rapes, murders or eating babies. Though it's pretty interesting that they feel the need to have their spokespeople specifically deny that.

[Osterbaum]

Love it how they apparently just ignore the criticism. Go EA.

[synkr0nized]

EDIT: Where did you find that quote there Ramary?

Game Informer (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/04/04/ea-wins-quot-worst-company-in-america-quot-award.aspx) quotes it from a statement they supposedly got from EA.

[Fifthfiend]

Love it how they apparently just ignore the criticism. Go EA.

It's hard to hear with all that money stuffed in their ears.

[Kim]

EA, regardless how evil they may or may not be, have a very limited impact with their bad behavior. I honestly think it's pretty absurd to call them the worst company when any bullshit they pull really only hurts a bunch of nerds by making them pay a little more or making them upset about a game. EA definitely deserves criticism, but by making a games company out to be the worst company you trivialize a lot of much worse shit going on. Like, if we wanted to actually be human beings about this, we'd say the worst companies are anyone who works with FOXCONN or FOXCONN themselves. You know, for driving employees to suicide. Because driving people to suicide is a bit worse than, "Well, you made me pay five dollars for some DLC," or, "I didn't like this ending."

[Kim]

But we all know who the real villain is.

Anyone who slightly inconveniences nerds.

They're basically a double Hitler.

[Melfice]

Yeah, I'm gonna side with Liz here.
And if that means siding with EA, so be it.

[Arcanum]

Well the entire thing was based off user votes. Plus this whole thing popped up on a few game blog sites when the voting was happening, bringing the voting to the attention of more EA hating gamers who probably don't normally visit the Consumerist. I bet you a lot of the voters didn't even look at the other companies and just saw the story on some game site and then proceeded to vote for EA.

[Kim]

Well the entire thing was based off user votes. Plus this whole thing popped up on a few game blog sites when the voting was happening, bringing the voting to the attention of more EA hating gamers who probably don't normally visit the Consumerist. I bet you a lot of the voters didn't even look at the other companies and just saw the story on some game site and then proceeded to vote for EA. Which is why the subject of who among the money-eating elite are the worst should not be something the wishy-washy feelings of nerds has any say in.

EDIT: Honestly, if I was the consumerist, I would have used EA winning this stupid vote as a basis to insult anyone who voted for EA. While bringing up all the companies who deserved to win more than EA.

[MSperoni]

I totes agree with Liz here on all points mentioned above regarding this EA "worst company" crap.

Priorities, people. Sheesh.

[Solid Snake]

Isn't there something like 100 million people who own computers in the world?

...Honestly: This may have already been addressed. I haven't got any further than this. I doubt I could get any further than this.
But...seriously?
100 million people who own computers?
IN THE WORLD?!?!?!?!

Someone wake up Amake and tell him it's not 1985 anymore

EDIT: Also, Liz, like I totally agree with you, don't misinterpret this
Like, for realz, objectively speaking, AT&T and Bank of America and Halliburton are worse than EA
But like, this is the Consumerist's public opinion poll of general consumers
It's not exactly like, a quorum of business ethics experts with advanced degrees being asked to extrapolate statistics on the subject and come up with the objective answer
Like okay, I get disagreeing with the results? But it's kind of harsh to expect the Consumerist to go "Fuck off, you're wrong" to the general public after asking the general public to participate in their vote. And if the Consumerist disagreed with EA having a chance to win the contest the easy solution is just to prohibit EA from being one of the contestants at all; therefore this is 100% the Consumerist's "fault" and 0% the public's for just speaking their mind.

As for the result I'm totes for EA just getting hammered on ME3's ending and their DLC bullshit and everything else, and while I disagree with the objective nature of the result, I agree with letting EA feel the heat

EDIT 2: Ninja'd by Liz, apparently? Albeit like a reverse-Ninja because he was making the opposite point in away that defused mine?

[Kim]

Like, honestly, EA is in the right to be dismissive of it, because it voting for them proves how utterly meaningless it is. That doesn't mean there aren't legitimate complaints to be made against EA. There are plenty. However, when you use something like this as the means for those complaints to be made, you're doing your argument much more harm than good.

[Solid Snake]

But like, EA can't positively construe getting hammered like this
Yeah, EA can totally point out that it's objectively bullshit they "Won" when Halliburton wasn't even invited to the party and Bank of America exists
But from a broader, more generic perspective, the very idea that so many people are so upset with EA that they'd care to artificially rig this contest against them and be angrier than they are at BoA should like, at one point, cause EA to reflect on, like, "Maybe it'd be nice to not be hated this much, and this irrationally; maybe I'm doing something wrong."

Like, here's a comparison for you
If Snake's over-defensiveness on NPF leads to a typical dose of justified Snake-hate the week before a "Least Favorite NPF User" contest
And then Snake 'beats' for the 'prestigious' award
Like yeah, I could go whine like, "But guys, objectively speaking I'm not in any way shape or form as bad as that banned user was, I'm just a little overdefensive sometimes, you all just voted against me because the thing I did wrong was so recent and you're biased."

...And if I said that, I'd be right, technically?
But that wouldn't change the fact that the message I should be taking away from my 'victory' isn't "You fuckers are assholes for voting for me despite the fact that I did something objectively wrong, simply because the thing I did objectively wrong was not as terrible as that thing he did."
But the message I [I]SHOULD be taking away from it all isn't that, it's "Jeez, I guess I need to stop being so over-defensive, because a lot of people on NPF are so ticked off with me that they think I'm worse than that guy who was actually racist or sexist or a terrible person."

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man the videogame community- not content at proving how racist and sexist theya re, going for entitled ittle shits as wel.

[Solid Snake]

Man the videogame community- not content at proving how racist and sexist theya re, going for entitled ittle shits as wel.

Man it aggravates me to no end when people try to knee-jerkingly defend EA / Bioware under the "lolz gamers SO ENTITLEDS" bullshittery without, I dunno, actually reading some of the more responsible criticism out there

Yeah, some of the critics are assholes
Some of them also are genuinely reasonable people with genuinely good points.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Except the fact that people decided to vote EA as the worst company ever speaks to some incredibly screwed-up priorities.

EA has arguably driven down the quality of content in videogames, while overcharging for said content. There are companies that, well fuck, I'm sure I don't need to list the many companies that have actually killed people, ruined the lives of millions more, irrevocably damaged the environment, and basically been flat-up responsible for making the world a worse place in a significant way.

Even if the "contest" in itself wasn't meaningless by including only 32 companies on there that the average American consumer would be familiar with, there are still companies on there that have done far more harm than EA.

That the public decided that EA was deserving of it more than Wal-Mart or the banks on there is a problem.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man it aggravates me to no end when people try to knee-jerkingly defend EA / Bioware under the "lolz gamers SO ENTITLEDS" bullshittery without, I dunno, actually reading some of the more responsible criticism out there

Yeah, some of the critics are assholes
Some of them also are genuinely reasonable people with genuinely good points.

They voted a company who makes videogames as the worst company in America over companies that are involved in massacring civilians in foreign wars, over companies that tank the economy for their own year end bonuses, over companies that rack up the prices of live-saving drugs so that poor people can't afford them, over companies that progressively destroy the rights of their own workers such that commit suicide and those who don't can't even feed their familes all while their upper management are walking home with billions.
how the fuck can you defend that snake. How the shit is EA the worst company in America.

[Amake]

...Honestly: This may have already been addressed. I haven't got any further than this. I doubt I could get any further than this.
But...seriously?
100 million people who own computers?
IN THE WORLD?!?!?!?!

Someone wake up Amake and tell him it's not 1985 anymore
Yeah, that was some bad research on my part. Apparently personal computer ownership has gone up from 1% to an astonishing 5% while I wasn't looking. I'm not convinced that makes any difference to anything in this thread.

Also I think you put what I tried to say better than I did, that the vote turnout should be a warning signal to EA and possibly their customers. Yes, it's a gross exaggeration to say EA is worse than Halliburton. But no, the problem is not the voters who say that, the problem is that EA invites that comparison at all.

[Solid Snake]

They voted a company who makes videogames as the worst company in America over companies that are involved in massacring civilians in foreign wars, over companies that tank the economy for their own year end bonuses, over companies that rack up the prices of live-saving drugs so that poor people can't afford them, over companies that progressively destroy the rights of their own workers such that commit suicide and those who don't can't even feed their familes all while their upper management are walking home with billions.
how the fuck can you defend that snake. How the shit is EA the worst company in America.

Man I think the problem here is that you're taking this seriously as what people objectively think, whereas I'm interpreting this as like "Oh, this is the company that regular Joe Schmoe average everyday uninformed people want to bash most right now."
I mean of course these people aren't going to make the logical choice. Half of them will vote for Mitt Romney in the upcoming election, for heaven's sake. If you actually read what I wrote you'd realize that I am in no way, shape or form agreeing with the objective notion that EA was the worst company on this list. If I actually knew of the contest and had bothered to vote, I wouldn't have voted for EA against Bank of America.

But really, you're getting very angry over a whole bunch of nothin'
Which is, ironically, exactly what you're saying that EA's critics are doing when they bitch and moan incessently about video games?

Like let's take your argument one step further
Can I never, EVER criticize a video game company, because like the moment I do so, I'm criticizing a company that manufactures an entertainment product when at the same time arms manufacturers are practically granting terrorists access to munitions?
Yeah I know the idea is that people were supposed to pick "the worst" company, and they sure as hell didn't, but I don't think 80% of the voters were taking some dopey Consumerist contest seriously

If this was a serious contest with serious repercussions, like the losing company is automatically dissolved and goes bankrupt, yeah, then I'd understand the frustration.

[Osterbaum]

It's the fucking consumerist, they are looking for the worst company from a purely consumer perspective within the bounds of the existing economic system, not ethical perspective or morality.

Talk about entitlenment, everyone going and feeling all superior; "Surely I would've voted differently and not knee jerkingly voted for EA because they aren't the worst by far, because I am not an entitled shit like everyone else." And also EA dismissing it completely is just as dumb, fucking accept that maybe you aren't as liked and maybe you aren't doing everything as well as you thought.

e: and I mean shit, when did it become impossible to hate on EA for relatively trivial reasons while at the same time acknowledging that some companies are fucking evil, it's not like we're talking about a definitive vote here that will decide the direction of future politics or making a huge statement that will surely rock the company boat so much that whichever company get's voted first will forever change their ways or be shunned by all consumers

[BitVyper]

the very idea that so many people are so upset with EA that they'd care to artificially rig this contest against them and be angrier than they are at BoA should like, at one point, cause EA to reflect on, like, "Maybe it'd be nice to not be hated this much, and this irrationally; maybe I'm doing something wrong."

EA isn't gonna give a single fuck unless people stop giving them money. Like I'm sure they'll look at this as reason to improve their public image, but it's not gonna be "well lets seriously evaluate our choices and try to better ourselves." It's gonna be "lets put a bunch more money into lying to everyone about how great we are."

[Marc v4.0]

'Officially' is getting a good stretch and workout here, I think

[Ramary]

I am damn sure after all these years, EA knows we hate them. But they actually did try to get better, bring new IP in, tried to be less consumer cancerous, know what happen?

They lost money. Went back to their current ways and got it back. They literally have no reason to be nice at the moment until we stop buying their crap.

And yeah, the "worst company" thing was from a consumer prescriptive, so people saying stuff like war profiteers are just completely missing the point, and yeah EA chances are did not deserve it over BofA, but apparently they won last year, and it would be boring and pointless to let them win again.

[Solid Snake]

EA isn't gonna give a single fuck unless people stop giving them money. Like I'm sure they'll look at this as reason to improve their public image, but it's not gonna be "well lets seriously evaluate our choices and try to better ourselves." It's gonna be "lets put a bunch more money into lying to everyone about how great we are."

The mere idea that EA might feel the slightest bit of pressure to improve their public image means we'll get something good out of this.

Also LOL EA for basically trying to suggest that they only lost because legions of frustrated gamers were angry at them and outvoted the nongamers
I mean don't get me wrong, EA's argument there is absolutely objectively right

But when you're selling products to gamers, and not to non-gamers who'd immediately agree with your "We're worse than Halliburton?" shenanigans, congratulations, you just insulted the people who you want to care enough about your dopey entertainment products to purchase them

Also kind of funny that their statement indirectly attempts to claim that videogames aren't important. Like "EA shouldn't have won, because we don't do anything nearly as important as what Halliburton does!"
Sure again, they're objectively right, but that can't be a great confidence-booster, basically saying you're exempt because your legion of employees do not contribute anything worthy of being criticized by society

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man I think the problem here is that you're taking this seriously as what people objectively think, whereas I'm interpreting this as like "Oh, this is the company that regular Joe Schmoe average everyday uninformed people want to bash most right now."
I mean of course these people aren't going to make the logical choice. Half of them will vote for Mitt Romney in the upcoming election, for heaven's sake. If you actually read what I wrote you'd realize that I am in no way, shape or form agreeing with the objective notion that EA was the worst company on this list. If I actually knew of the contest and had bothered to vote, I wouldn't have voted for EA against Bank of America.

But really, you're getting very angry over a whole bunch of nothin'
Which is, ironically, exactly what you're saying that EA's critics are doing when they bitch and moan incessently about video games?

Like let's take your argument one step further
Can I never, EVER criticize a video game company, because like the moment I do so, I'm criticizing a company that manufactures an entertainment product when at the same time arms manufacturers are practically granting terrorists access to munitions?
Yeah I know the idea is that people were supposed to pick "the worst" company, and they sure as hell didn't, but I don't think 80% of the voters were taking some dopey Consumerist contest seriously

If this was a serious contest with serious repercussions, like the losing company is automatically dissolved and goes bankrupt, yeah, then I'd understand the frustration.
Because they sat down in a poll that was the for the "worst company in America" and they voted for a videogame company. Like thats some terrible fucking priorities.

It's the fucking consumerist, they are looking for the worst company from a purely consumer perspective within the bounds of the existing economic system, not ethical perspective or morality.

Talk about entitlenment, everyone going and feeling all superior; "Surely I would've voted differently and not knee jerkingly voted for EA because they aren't the worst by far, because I am not an entitled shit like everyone else." And also EA dismissing it completely is just as dumb, fucking accept that maybe you aren't as liked and maybe you aren't doing everything as well as you thought.

e: and I mean shit, when did it become impossible to hate on EA for relatively trivial reasons while at the same time acknowledging that some companies are fucking evil, it's not like we're talking about a definitive vote here that will decide the direction of future politics or making a huge statement that will surely rock the company boat so much that whichever company get's voted first will forever change their ways or be shunned by all consumers

In this case just choose whichever company lost the most money, stocks tumbled the most. It is pretty clearly which company has annoyed you the most in the year. Like I don't even know what you are arguing here.

Also Iq uite like calling all the critics "Ohhh you so smug and superior". Like what is that even. If I called out a white power group would you tell me off for acting all superior.
Like if you do terrible shit I'm going to call you out on it.

[rpgdemon]

EA, regardless how evil they may or may not be, have a very limited impact with their bad behavior. I honestly think it's pretty absurd to call them the worst company when any bullshit they pull really only hurts a bunch of nerds by making them pay a little more or making them upset about a game. EA definitely deserves criticism, but by making a games company out to be the worst company you trivialize a lot of much worse shit going on. Like, if we wanted to actually be human beings about this, we'd say the worst companies are anyone who works with FOXCONN or FOXCONN themselves. You know, for driving employees to suicide. Because driving people to suicide is a bit worse than, "Well, you made me pay five dollars for some DLC," or, "I didn't like this ending."

I was thinking the same thing. Companies that actually cause pain destruction and damages should be getting the title, not companies that did something that made people unhappy to spend another five dollars or else the entirely nonessential entertainment that they bought is dissatisfying.

Edit: Snake, you're making fallacies left and right. (Somehow missed the last page of the thread):

The fact that people say that you can't call EA the worst company in America is not synonymous with saying that you can't say anything bad about EA because they're not as bad as other places.

It's saying that, given the option between companies that murder their way to the top, cause employees to commit suicide, and what have you, you can't say that the company who just pissed off their fans by charging them an extra $5 is the worst. That is objectively a terrible statement, and it is objectively terrible as a human to say that people ought to be able to make that statement. It shows an utter contempt for human life, and cannot be justified or defended.

It's the fact that the results were a comparison which makes the EA bashing objectively terrible. That doesn't mean you can't bash EA outside of the comparison. As a lawyer, you ought to see the fallacy in your logic.

[MSperoni]

Maybe this whole EA thing speaks of how people tend to prioritize what is "real/personal" to them over what is more severe and beyond their willingness to comprehend (or what they feel they're powerless to change). Or maybe a chunk of the voters were children/teens who don't have an idea what these other companies are and just saw "EA" and *votes" (this is why I hate popularity contests).

It reminds me of the whole Michael Vick incident. People seemed to care twice as much about his animal abuse than they did about the crimes other NFL players had committed around that time (like involuntary manslaughter, spousal abuse, drug trafficking, murder etc). Why? Maybe more people own dogs so the abuse of one is something they take more personally? Who knows.

I'd like to think that if you asked most of the people who voted for EA whether they thought "Murder" was worse than "Charging a lot for DLC" they'd say yes.

[Osterbaum]

Does the result of this vote somehow validate the actions of other worse companies?

[Aldurin]

Well, I'm sure that everyone will forget about this once EA Origins rises back up.

[Marc v4.0]

Does the result of this vote somehow validate the actions of other worse companies?

No, the entire vote was pointless and doesn't matter to anyone beyond the scope of the magazine. We will just argue about anything.

[Solid Snake]

Because they sat down in a poll that was the for the "worst company in America" and they voted for a videogame company. Like thats some terrible fucking priorities.


...Yeah.
A two-second internet poll.

They weren't voting for the next of the United States of freakin' America, here.

Like, I've wasted time voting on random ESPN polls as to whether Tom Brady or Peyton Manning was the better quarterback.
Do you think I agonize over that decision?
Do you think I like, do hours upon hours of painstaking statistical research so as to ensure that my particular vote matters insofar as it displays the objectively correct result?

...Fuck no. It's a worthless, meaningless ESPN poll.
So I love Tom Brady because I'm a Patriots fan, so I vote for him, even though, if forced to objectively analyze both quarterbacks at gunpoint by some weird Football Fan who'd kill people who gave the objectively incorrect answers, I might actually vote for Peyton Manning.

When it comes to two-second internet polls, the results don't mean much! They don't. EA's right about that much. People aren't seriously debating their votes here. The same people who knee-jerkingly voted EA because it took them two seconds of their lives and their vote was just on the Consumerist for grins and giggles anyway? If you put a gun to their head and forced them to read the issues and consider them thoroughly, 99% of them would vote Bank of America. Hell, if you just asked them to take fifteen minutes of their time and told them their vote was the only vote that mattered and gave them a few articles to read, most people make the 'correct' choice.

But again: This is a two-second internet poll! Like those dopey ones I take on ESPN. You don't think about it. You don't even remember what you voted for two hours later. If you're enraged at EA because of that DLC you just bought or that ME3 ending you just received, you're not going to be an arbiter of justice in making this determination. I concede that! I just don't really think it matters, because I don't think the Consumerist poll really matters to the extent you're pretending it does.

EDIT: Upon actually reading the entirety of the Consumerist's perspective on the results, I think the reason why so many people who are angry at the voters are upset isn't so much because the poll happened, but rather because of the logical hoops the Consumerist is going through to try to defend the results as objectively accurate.
Like, if the Consumerist was just like, "There's no way EA is actually worse than Bank of America, but people are angry at EA these days, and maybe EA should take heed?" I don't think we'd be having this discussion.
Instead the Consumerist is so worried about its own credibility or something, it's jumping through hoops it doesn't have to.

[Ramary]

Think of it how I am right now.

If one of the genuinely bad companies won it would basically be like "Well no shit".

Because EA won, we at least got something INTERESTING and hell, EA actually responded to it, I don't think BofA would of. At least in the not the hilarious way EA did.

[Osterbaum]

I'm goint to let Snake argue for me in this thread and I'll just comment if I greatly disagree with his points. 's that cool?

[rpgdemon]

Since another page was posted since I made my edit, quoting it here:

Snake, you're making fallacies left and right. (Somehow missed the last page of the thread):

The fact that people say that you can't call EA the worst company in America is not synonymous with saying that you can't say anything bad about EA because they're not as bad as other places.

It's saying that, given the option between companies that murder their way to the top, cause employees to commit suicide, and what have you, you can't say that the company who just pissed off their fans by charging them an extra $5 is the worst. That is objectively a terrible statement, and it is objectively terrible as a human to say that people ought to be able to make that statement. It shows an utter contempt for human life, and cannot be justified or defended.

It's the fact that the results were a comparison which makes the EA bashing objectively terrible. That doesn't mean you can't bash EA outside of the comparison. As a lawyer, you ought to see the fallacy in your logic.

[MSperoni]

I disagree with the results of the poll but I agree with Snake's reasoning as to why those results may have occurred (or maybe I just want to agree with him because I hate thinking that people would honestly vote this way if they thought about it for more than two seconds).

Like, I've wasted time voting on random ESPN polls as to whether Tom Brady or Peyton Manning was the better quarterback.


I'd vote for Peyton.

[Osterbaum]

Yeah, hey I have an idea! Let's turn this thread into voting for the worst company in America or the entire World.

e: an idea I stole from Pepperoni up there

e2: except apparently not since that's some "football" player, so nevermind

[Marc v4.0]

Since another page was posted since I made my edit, quoting it here:

His response to the response others gave might have something to do with, everytime EA is brought up, the complaints are always met with a hearty dose of 'NERDS' and 'ENTITLED SHITS'.

Just sayin'. Might be a reason.

Who knows?

[rpgdemon]

Yeah, seeing his most recent post, I can agree with the reasoning. I was addressing the post saying that he didn't get why people were upset over people defending the decision of EA being terrible, and that of course this obviously meant no one could criticize it.

[Solid Snake]

RPG:
A sentence after I made that point, I literally conceded I was using fallacious logic

Again, the issue here really is that you're taking this aaallllll far too seriously. You're trying to make this random internet poll a scathing indictment of American culture. It just isn't. It was a two-second internet poll. And the results don't even match how people really, truly actually feel on the subject. It just matches how butthurt legions of butthurt gamers feel the moment after EA screwed them over with some DLC / bad ending bullshit.

I'm willing to bet a substantial percentage of the voters were under 22 and therefore not even in a position to own their own house, let alone be in a position of sufficient financial responsibility to be expected to make a conscientious choice in this poll.

EDIT: See below

[Ramary]

Eh, well there is also the whole "4chan has once again votebombed a poll" I forgot to mentioned. There was a lot of threads on it on /v/ past few days, and now /v/ actually has a sticky for the EA winning thing.

That was a big part of how EA "won".

[Osterbaum]

Ok so, I vote for Neste Oil (http://www.neste.fi/segment.aspx?path=2589%2c2655%2c12915).

[rpgdemon]

Like let's take your argument one step further
Can I never, EVER criticize a video game company, because like the moment I do so, I'm criticizing a company that manufactures an entertainment product when at the same time arms manufacturers are practically granting terrorists access to munitions?
Yeah I know the idea is that people were supposed to pick "the worst" company, and they sure as hell didn't, but I don't think 80% of the voters were taking some dopey Consumerist contest seriously

If this was a serious contest with serious repercussions, like the losing company is automatically dissolved and goes bankrupt, yeah, then I'd understand the frustration.

I'm not seeing it, is it in another post? Things are moving really fast in this thread.

[Solid Snake]

Eh, well there is also the whole "4chan has once again votebombed a poll" I forgot to mentioned. There was a lot of threads on it on /v/ past few days, and now /v/ actually has a sticky for the EA winning thing.

That was a big part of how EA "won".

Yeah I feel pretty safe in betting that a majority of those individuals are college-aged or younger.
And for them yeah, ME3's crappy ending probably really did substantively impact their lives more than foreclosures / war profiteering / obscene oil prices.
Now they're still foolish for voting the way they did, but there's no malignancy there, probably not even any ignorance. Lack of empathy for others going through shit they can't comprehend, possibly, but I doubt those kinds of thoughts cross your mind when answering polls like this. They're just gamers who saw this as an opportunity to send a message they desperately wanted to send to EA, in the form of an utterly meaningless two-second internet poll.

Their efforts were probably futile, but I'm not even sure I can blame them for trying.

[Solid Snake]

I'm not seeing it, is it in another post? Things are moving really fast in this thread.

Yeah I know the idea is that people were supposed to pick "the worst" company, and they sure as hell didn't,

Like, between that and the 'one step further' comment in the preface, I was attempting to concede that the argument was by no means watertight, and that in fact being asked to choose a company that's "worst" is not akin to merely criticizing a company, and therefore my earlier comparison was just kind of extraneous and irrelevant, but I enjoy intellectual exercises like that just because

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yeah I feel pretty safe in betting that a majority of those individuals are college-aged or younger.
And for them yeah, ME3's crappy ending probably really did substantively impact their lives more than foreclosures / war profiteering / obscene oil prices.
Now they're still foolish for voting the way they did, but there's no malignancy there, probably not even any ignorance. Lack of empathy for others going through shit they can't comprehend, possibly, but I doubt those kinds of thoughts cross your mind when answering polls like this. They're just gamers who saw this as an opportunity to send a message they desperately wanted to send to EA, in the form of an utterly meaningless two-second internet poll.

Their efforts were probably futile, but I'm not even sure I can blame them for trying.

I think it's less that they think EA is the worst company or anything like that.
They just find it amusing.

If you go into the stickied thread bragging about EA winning the poll, you get Andrew W.K singing "You'd better get ready to die" embedded into the page, automatically playing.

http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/134877884

[rpgdemon]

Yeah I feel pretty safe in betting that a majority of those individuals are college-aged or younger.
And for them yeah, ME3's crappy ending probably really did substantively impact their lives more than foreclosures / war profiteering / obscene oil prices.
Now they're still foolish for voting the way they did, but there's no malignancy there, probably not even any ignorance. Lack of empathy for others going through shit they can't comprehend, possibly, but I doubt those kinds of thoughts cross your mind when answering polls like this. They're just gamers who saw this as an opportunity to send a message they desperately wanted to send to EA, in the form of an utterly meaningless two-second internet poll.

Their efforts were probably futile, but I'm not even sure I can blame them for trying.

I just feel like EA shouldn't be in the running for "worst".

Maybe most disliked? Sure, but "worst" is a pretty big name to call them.

[Ramary]

Well since it is a public poll "most disliked" is exactly what it is.

[Solid Snake]

I just feel like EA shouldn't be in the running for "worst".

Maybe most disliked? Sure, but "worst" is a pretty big name to call them.

I don't disagree!
And absolutely nothing I've written should be interpreted as disagreement.
Objectively speaking, EA is not, nor will they ever be, the worst company in existence.
I just think some of y'all wanted to use this result as a platform to rant about like how society and everyone in it is stupid and, really, there's about an infinity of other things society's objectively saying and doing right now that's far, far worse than voting for the wrong company in an utterly irrelevant internet poll, under the presumption that said votes meant nothing anyway.

It's like, when I knee-jerkingly vote Tom Brady over Peyton Manning in a "Best QB ever" poll on ESPN
Imagine if someone then came up to me, punched me in the face and was like "You're everything that's wrong in society today! You voted for the objectively worse quarterback! You didn't even bother to do your research! You are an idiot and every New England Patriots fan is an idiot and you should feel ashamed of yourself!"
...and I'd be like, really? Really?!?
You may objectively be right, even, at least insofar as Peyton may be better than Tom.
But: Really? That's worth getting that upset over? A decision I spent three seconds deliberating and didn't even take seriously? And that's going to be used a platform for you to judge my self-worth?

...This is, for the record, kind of exactly how I feel when people use shit like this to justify obscene overgeneralized attacks against 'nerds' or 'gaming culture' or 'people against the ME3 ending.'
Because in the end you're making a huge stereotype that isn't remotely accurate and demonizing a wide range of people with diverse beliefs because a few extreme people think it's funny to pretend EA is worse than Bank of America when they're really just bad.
And in the end you're kind of stubbing yourself in the toe, if you're actually a nerd or a 'gamer' yourself.

EDIT: And the problem is EA is totally relying on the people making those 'nerd' and 'gaming culture' over-generalizations as a line of defense. If you're 'siding with EA' and you erroneously believe that all of EA's critics are delusional entitled fuckwits, EA will be very happy to continue their terrible business practices while piggybacking on the fact that you and others like you are perpetuating false myths about the absurdity of the critics.

[rpgdemon]

And in the end you're kind of stubbing yourself in the toe, if you're actually a nerd or a 'gamer' yourself.


I'm not saying that gamers/geeks/nerds are all idiots, but instead railing against the consumerist for the set up, that put EA in the running as worst people ever (Which was probably just a gambit to get more hits/attention). I think EA is pretty crappy, and their defenses were terrible. But they're not the worst, and should not have been in the running for worst.

And the defense of EA as the worst is where geeks/gamers/nerds are looking bad. I mean, it's a poll that 4chan votebombed, it doesn't mean anything about a large group of gamers or anything. But the fact that gamers have to come jump to the defense of EA as the worst is what makes them look bad, in my opinion.

In short, the voting and actual poll are meaningless, but to use your analogy, you voted in the football poll, and Tom Brady won. Payton Manning fans are angry, so they bring up charts and statistics, conclusively proving with hard evidence that Manning is better, and the Pats fans continue going, "NOPE TOM BRADY IS THE BEST! I REFUSE TO ACCEPT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING!"*

EDIT: And the problem is EA is totally relying on the people making those 'nerd' and 'gaming culture' over-generalizations as a line of defense. If you're 'siding with EA' and you erroneously believe that all of EA's critics are delusional entitled fuckwits, EA will be very happy to continue their terrible business practices while piggybacking on the fact that you and others like you are perpetuating false myths about the absurdity of the critics.

To be fair, this is nothing but good for anyone who wants EA to die. EA makes no changes, and goes under. (This IS bad for anyone who actually cares about people though, since it means a ton of innocent developers losing their jobs.)


*But seriously, Tom Brady FTW.

[Kim]

It's like, when I knee-jerkingly vote Tom Brady over Peyton Manning in a "Best QB ever" poll on ESPN
Imagine if someone then came up to me, punched me in the face and was like "You're everything that's wrong in society today! You voted for the objectively worse quarterback! You didn't even bother to do your research! You are an idiot and every New England Patriots fan is an idiot and you should feel ashamed of yourself!"
...and I'd be like, really? Really?!?

In this thread, I point out that calling a game company the worst company in America trivializes atrocities other companies commit, and Snake then trivializes the atrocities other companies commit by comparing it to a vote on quarterbacks.

WHELP

Also, you're comparing it to being punched in the face is bullshit. You're exaggerating my side of things into absurdity and that's not making you look any better than any of the other ridiculous bullshit you're saying in this thread.

This award trivializes atrocities and does the arguments being made against EA more harm than good. EA is right to be dismissive of it because them winning shows that the award means absolutely nothing. I even acknowledged that EA does some stuff I don't like. Hell, I said that the main issue with the poll was that it made wishy-washy feelings an element by making it a poll in the first place.

You're posting stupid, reactionary stuff in response to valid criticisms of an award, which itself was criticized for being stupid and reactionary. You are smarter and more mature than this, so knock it off. I'm dropping out of this conversation, because I'm sick of watching people posting the most ridiculous bullshit to excuse their prioritizing a couple of dollars spent on video games over the deaths of people all over the world.

This is fucking stupid, and the fact that it needs to be explained how fucking stupid it is astounds me.

What the hell, NPF.

[Marc v4.0]

EA is right to be dismissive of it because them winning shows that the award means absolutely nothing.

Honestly, at what point wasn't this poll a cheap magazine gimmick that means absolutely nothing? Was there some period of time in which the rise and fall of economic and corporate power in America all hinged on the 'Worst of' poll in the Consumerist?

It is a popularity poll to push their name a little further, trivializing atrocities is a thing it was doing a long time before 4chan vote-bombed it for shits and giggles and everyone else blamed 'NERDS' and 'ENTITLED SHITS'.

[Osterbaum]

Everyone is better than everyone else, but EA is the worst only not as bad as everyone else. Go thread.

[Solid Snake]

You're posting stupid, reactionary stuff in response to valid criticisms of an award, which itself was criticized for being stupid and reactionary. You are smarter and more mature than this, so knock it off. I'm dropping out of this conversation, because I'm sick of watching people posting the most ridiculous bullshit to excuse their prioritizing a couple of dollars spent on video games over the deaths of people all over the world.

This is fucking stupid, and the fact that it needs to be explained how fucking stupid it is astounds me.

What the hell, NPF.

Welp by no means are you over-dramatizing or mischaracterizing my arguments, no siree
Why yes it is totally appropriate to insinuate that my arguments in any way translate to me personally prioritizing "a couple of dollars spent on video games" over the "deaths of people all over the world."
...Or, for that matter, truly believing that anyone / everyone who actually voted for EA for any number of reasons truly despise their fellow man and are willfully ignorant in their deaths

Like I love you how you suggest that everything I have typed is stupid
And yet at no moment did it occur to you that your overreaction of said sentiments is also kind of, sort of stupid
Unless you're that one guy who's going to jump on anyone who dares vote in a silly contest or make a silly statement

I mean let's be honest
The exact same logic you're using now could be applied against someone who spends 60 hours playing video games instead of volunteering to help homeless people
Like, they're "prioritizing a couple of dollars spent on video games over the deaths of people all over the world."
Hey wait I know someone who does just that, his/her name is "Everyone on NPF."
Are we all fucking terrible people? Should be we reminded every moment we're goofing off in Tales of Graces f that people are suffering in the world while we're sipping our wine and playing our vidjagames?

...Maybe this contest you're so upset about really is just akin to the same kind of goofy entertainment we enjoy when we play vidjagames, insofar as it's run by an absolutely unimportant magazine, its results are inconsequential, and the efforts of voters are meaningless, and it won't change jack shit in any industry anyway?

Maybe instead of transforming it into some huge social commentary on how horrible people are, or how stupid I am, as you are often excited to do in your zealous crusades for 'justice' where none should rightfully exist, we can just laugh off how silly a minority of EA's critics are and move on?
...And maybe instead of being over-defensive, interpreting intellectual criticisms as personal attacks, and writing Walls o' Text, I can cool down my jets and come to the conclusion this war isn't worth fighting and go back to playing Graces?

Man I wonder if some standup guy who volunteered 60 hours a week and fought against corporate bigwigs and spent time in Africa happened to vote for EA as a joke or something. I bet he's a terrible person.

[CelesJessa]

Are we really discussing the ethical implications of what amounts to a bunch of bored teenagers voting in an anonymous online poll?

If it makes anyone feel better about the results, EA has been known for treating it's employees like garbage, (100 hour workweeks, no overtime pay. It was bad enough that when they got sued, they managed to inspire changes over the entire industry involving the rights of people who make video games) BUT stuff like that probably wasn't even taken into account when people clicked that button to vote, which is probably why EA won out over other companies that do bad things behind the scenes.

[Sifright]

Are we really discussing the ethical implications of what amounts to a bunch of bored teenagers voting in an anonymous online poll?

If it makes anyone feel better about the results, EA has been known for treating it's employees like garbage, (100 hour workweeks, no overtime pay. It was bad enough that when they got sued, they managed to inspire changes over the entire industry involving the rights of people who make video games) BUT stuff like that probably wasn't even taken into account when people clicked that button to vote, which is probably why EA won out over other companies that do bad things behind the scenes.

CelesJessa, pretty much hits the nail on the head. I mean what the fuck people. It's a stupid poll that will have no effect on anything ever anywhere.

[phil_]

Well, I mean, I personally don't like being called "wishy-washy" and entitled because a poll I didn't vote in ended the way it did just because I fall into the category of "nerds and gamers" (not that I self-identify as either, but I don't pretend others don't see me that way). Because of that, I can see why Snake et al. (who may or may not, but probably do, self-identify as nerds or gamers) also don't enjoy being called "wishy-washy" and entitled because a poll they didn't vote in ended the way it did.

I know SMB doesn't give a shit about hurting people's precious widdle feelings, but I thought maybe Liz might a clear statement of what objectionable thing in her earlier posts precipitated this argument. It wasn't "EA isn't as evil as a lot of people." It was the painting every nerd who plays games as not caring about anything but themselves; especially since you know that isn't true, given that you're a games journalist and you care about the world.

[Osterbaum]

I know SMB doesn't give a shit about hurting people's precious widdle feelings
I'm just going to take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy Easter regardless of your opinions on the poll!

[synkr0nized]

I've had enough of this nonsense.