Mass Effect 3: It Ends Here

[Bells]

So, the Extended Cut is out. Shall we blabber about it one last time?

Also, they DID add a brand new ending, actually influenced by the fans! The Refusal ending is now the 4th choice

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It's pretty much the definition of "Bittersweet".

Here is the new take on the Control Ending (this one actually works for me now, it was the one i picked the first time and oh boy was i underwhelmed by it...)

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And this is the Destroy ending

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Mind you that all of these might have variables directed to your own game but the overall framework of all of them is pretty much set as showed above.

Ah and of course, the new Synthesis ending.

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Mind you that the way these are all presented, there is no "perfect" ending, there is YOUR ending... what i mean is that it seems all these endings are paralell. There doesn't seem to be an ending above the others or a "true" ending like most games... so one ending can't really contradict the other because they are all supposed to fall into your interpretation of them ...

There might be more stuff to uncover and see, but this is the meat of it, so have at it fellas!

[EVILNess]

The ending of the Synthesis ending.

I swear I expected an elderly Simon to bust out and yell at them for stealing the end of Gurren Lagann.

[Ryong]

Refusal and Destroy are basically idiocy: the endings. Refusal, oh okay you gave the reapers the finger and didn't do shit. Destroy, hey, you killed a lot of people along with the reapers because cybernetics.

Control and Synthesis are similar in the end, but with different means.

Not a bad fix, but still, hey, pick what ending you want at the end.

[Pip Boy]

Im frustrated that there doesn't seem to be an option that leads to the reapers going away without tremendous amounts of meddling in galactic culture/life.

Like a "you and your thrice damned reapers go back to the hole from whence you came and let us keep doin what we were doin" option.

[Ryong]

Im frustrated that there doesn't seem to be an option that leads to the reapers going away without tremendous amounts of meddling in galactic culture/life.

Like a "you and your thrice damned reapers go back to the hole from whence you came and let us keep doin what we were doin" option.

It seems they're too thick-headed to get a message across that doesn't involve exploding every mass relay ever.

[stefan]

I like how Refusal is more or less an overt middle finger aimed at everyone who rightfully pointed out how much of a lazy cop-out the original endings were.

Im frustrated that there doesn't seem to be an option that leads to the reapers going away without tremendous amounts of meddling in galactic culture/life.

Like a "you and your thrice damned reapers go back to the hole from whence you came and let us keep doin what we were doin" option.

but we can't have that because HURR DURR BITTERSWEET ENDINGS, DURR HURR I AM LITERARY EXPERT.

Really, I never got why people were so pissily opposed to the possibility of a golden ending anyway, as if it would somehow devalue the game if it was possible to legitimately have an unambiguously good outcome. To which I say, fuck you; three games, hundreds of hours of effort, and countless examples of motherfucking heroism later, I think Shepard and co. have done more than enough to warrant a legit happy ending without any livejournal-esque "happy endings are passe and disney and I hate them because I only like mature bittersweet stories for mature bittersweet people such as myself" bullshit.

[Ryong]

Man, did you see how the Control and Synthesis ending are now, specially Synthesis?

If that shit isn't golden happy ending forever I don't know what is.

[stefan]

Man, did you see how the Control and Synthesis ending are now, specially Synthesis?

If that shit isn't golden happy ending forever I don't know what is.

Control basically turns shepard into motherfucking SHODAN, and Synthesis, while close (which it should be, since its the one you have to work to get) still has the annoying token bullshit of "mass relays blowing up everywhere, Shepard dead," etc. etc.)

Really, that rant was more in general than anything, its an annoying trend I see gaining prominence in the gaming community.

[Ryong]

Control basically turns shepard into motherfucking SHODAN, and Synthesis, while close (which it should be, since its the one you have to work to get) still has the annoying token bullshit of "mass relays blowing up everywhere, Shepard dead," etc. etc.)

Really, that rant was more in general than anything, its an annoying trend I see gaining prominence in the gaming community.

Synthesis has the knowledge of every single race the reapers killed and the reapers themselves mixed and used for eternal peace and shit. Shepard died to make the universe perfect, pretty much.

[Bells]

The mass relays no longer explode in any of the endings they make it quite clear that they simply "break" and stop working for a while. The control ending actually even shows Shepard controlling the Reapers to repair them.

Shepard being dead was never a big issue with me, in really epic stories it's only token to have the big epic hero to be the ultimate sacrifice itself. So i'm fine with that.

The deal here is that every ending has Positive and Negatives and people wanted some sort of "perfect ending" where everything is positive. And that's... just not going to happen in this narrative. And i'm actually ok with that.

My problem with the previous ending was just how poorly and rushed it all seemed, fairly lackluster compared to everything leading up to it. They did a pretty decent job fixing that... actually much better than what i was expecting.

As far as remaining professional and owning up to their own screw ups i think they did a honorable job here. It's not perfect... but hell, it's decent.

And c'mon let's face it... having a game with a decent ending is not all that common lately.

I like how the new ending is at the same time a middle finger AND a nod to the fanbase. I mean, it's pretty much a wink to the Indoctrination theory while at the same time being "Fine, you wanna be stubborn and die with dignity, here it is..."

in the end you still win anyway, cause the final shot of the "Future Family" talks about how they clearly beat the Reapers in the next cycle thanks to the recordings of Liara.

Synthesis and control were REALLY improved and made much better this time, so much that Control became satisfying to me. and Synthesis really is a happy ending after all.

I also liked how they added a SECOND nod to Shepard being alive on Destroy. There is the "Last Breath" thing, but it's also the ONLY ending where Liara doesn't put Shepard's name on the Board of the dead people. And even gives a timid smile right before it changes scenes...


EDIT:

Also i got this from the ME Forums

One of the goals for the Extended Cut, as part of addressing player feedback, was to provide more time with the love interest, and more opportunity for players to say goodbye to them and provide additional moments of connection between them. We did this in several ways:
Shepard can now actually say goodbye to the love interest when they are split up at the conduit run.

When Shepard sees flashbacks of important characters during the final decision, the flashbacks are now variable based on your playthrough – so your love interest can appear as one of the flashbacks, providing another moment of reflection between Shepard and that character.

A memorial scene was added, partly to show a close bond between Shepard and the love interest. The scene is variable, and if Shepard has a love interest in a given playthrough, it will be that character who places Shepard’s name on the memorial wall.

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

...which kinds looks like it exploded in a mix of Rage, Denial and Fanfare... quite interesting to observe really.

[Solid Snake]

I like how Refusal is more or less an overt middle finger aimed at everyone who rightfully pointed out how much of a lazy cop-out the original endings were.

Pretty much.

...I suppose it's nice that you can still help the next cycle win and whatnot, but when the other endings all universally allow (most of) your friends (and humanity) to live, it's basically Bioware railroading you into RGB and mocking you if you dare express displeasure.

My problem with the endings isn't so much that they're terrible (the Extended Cut does vastly improve the RGB endings, most notably Control, which is now a legitimate option instead of 'that choice no one with two brain cells would choose'), but rather that Mass Effect seems to no longer have any thematic resonance or narrative coherence.

When the first two games are all about achieving the impossible, persevering against the odds, uniting the galaxy against a threat, respecting all races equally, achieving true independence, a willingness to die before submission, etc., it establishes a certain vision of the kind of person Shepard is -- whether your Shepard is paragon or renegade.
...And then you're basically punished for roleplaying Shepard as the kind of person s/he is and has been since the beginning.

...That's my biggest problem with the new ending(s). I appreciate that Bioware has given the fans more closure and dealt with a few of the glaring plot holes. But every time I'd ever play ME3, I'd feel compelled to choose the 'Refusal' ending because that's what every incarnation of my Shepard would do.
And then Bioware just basically gives me the middle finger for being true to the very themes they originally established.

It's like if Apocalypse Now was 95% the exact same movie, and then at the end of the film a random U.S. marine shows up and starts kicking Vietnamese ass and a heroic orchestral soundtrack swells and the Marine logo shows up: "What are you waiting for? War is amazing!!! Enlist Today!"

Or if just as The Princess Bride was about to end and all the characters are walking off in victory Westley announced that he was actually having an affair with Inigo Montoya throughout the entire story, therefore proving that 'true love' was valueless, leaving Buttercup to commit suicide in despair.

[Ramary]

Or if just as The Princess Bride was about to end and all the characters are walking off in victory Westley announced that he was actually having an affair with Inigo Montoya throughout the entire story, therefore proving that 'true love' was valueless, leaving Buttercup to commit suicide in despair.

I know you are trying to make a point here, but I am currently super distracted by just how much I want to see this now.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

So, it turns out you can polish a turd, but at the end of the day, it's still a turd. They may have expanded upon and improved the endings (yay the relays no longer explode and kill everyone, control is no longer totally stupid), but the core bullshittery and stupid is still there and unchanged (Refusal is just a "fuck you" from Bioware, the Reapers still wiping out organics because they don't want them to be wiped out by synthetics by wiping them out with synthetics, the dialogue in most of the endings is pretty terrible, the relays are still dead for a while until they get repaired in Synthesis and Control (duno if they do in Destroy) leaving everyone still mostly stranded for a while and the Stargazer scene is still really out of place, even more so if you choose Control or Synthesis).

So yeah, improved in parts, but still pretty crappy.

[Bells]

C'mon now... it works. It's acceptable. Hell, i can't hardly remember a good game with a great ending in the last few years... it's always a shitty ending with a sequel hook or a "i can swallow this" ending from a game with a string for a story.

For how big mass effect is... this DLC did just fine.

The Reapers are not beatable by direct confrontation, the refusal ending is just there to allow you to die on your own terms. "Go Down Swinging" if you may... if the plot wasn't broken enough up to this point, having it turn into a sunshine happy ending by virtue of telling the starkid to fuck off would be simply fan wishing... it's just not feasible without a metric ton of eye squinting...

The explained a ton of the plot holes of the previous ending and did give proper resolution to the game... the costs were huge, everything is changed forever, but the galaxy will rise up back to where they were, in due time, and now probably working together... it's good. Hell, even Synthesis was made to look good... you can question it's logic, but go questioning Sci-Fi is never trully the best thing to do... specially in video game form.

[Sifright]

*snip*

The Reapers are not beatable by direct confrontation, the refusal ending is just there to allow you to die on your own terms. "Go Down Swinging" if you may... if the plot wasn't broken enough up to this point, having it turn into a sunshine happy ending by virtue of telling the starkid to fuck off would be simply fan wishing... it's just not feasible without a metric ton of eye squinting...

This actually isn't true it's shown pretty often that not only can the reapers be destroyed they are much less of a threat than the narrative states. from being taken down by a giant threshermaw which should be impossible regardless of the creatures size to many other examples

The codex has an entry about 4 dreadnoughts being able destroy a reaper capital ship.

We personally blow up a smaller reaper ship with a single handheld weapon.

The FTL drives could also be used to make FTL ship weapons. If terrorists managed to override the saftety features to turn a ship into a weapon that could crack a planet then then mass effect militaries certainly could.

The civilian ships managed to blow a reaper on the Quarian home world and the cut scene only showed about 15 ships firing. Conventionally the reapers can be defeated it just requires more work than "lol charge head on" given the way the relays work there is nothing stopping them from simply setting up enourmous mine fields that read for IFF transponders and explode anything that isn't considered friendly.

The refuse option is crap simple as. It's not even about it being an eventually lose. The problem is that it ignores all the ways that have shown the reapers to be actually beatable by conventional means. The fact that the game has people saying repeatedly that they can't be beaten is bullshit.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

C'mon now... it works. It's acceptable. Hell, i can't hardly remember a good game with a great ending in the last few years... it's always a shitty ending with a sequel hook or a "i can swallow this" ending from a game with a string for a story.

For how big mass effect is... this DLC did just fine.

The Reapers are not beatable by direct confrontation, the refusal ending is just there to allow you to die on your own terms. "Go Down Swinging" if you may... if the plot wasn't broken enough up to this point, having it turn into a sunshine happy ending by virtue of telling the starkid to fuck off would be simply fan wishing... it's just not feasible without a metric ton of eye squinting...

The explained a ton of the plot holes of the previous ending and did give proper resolution to the game... the costs were huge, everything is changed forever, but the galaxy will rise up back to where they were, in due time, and now probably working together... it's good. Hell, even Synthesis was made to look good... you can question it's logic, but go questioning Sci-Fi is never trully the best thing to do... specially in video game form.

No, it's not. Granted I haven't seen all the extra dialogue that may now be available (I've just watched the final cutscenes which miss those parts out) but unless they went into great detail on exactly how having synthetics wipe out organics to save them from being wiped out by synthetics isn't completely retarded circular logic then the core problem with the Reapers entire purpose is still present. If this is still the problem then the question of "why didn't the Reapers just act as peacekeepers and guide the organic races so that they never built synthetics if they believe that synthetics will kill them all" remains.

Control seems to imply that this is what Shepard is now attempting to do with the Reapers, so why didn't the Reapers just do that in the first place, instead of wiping everyone out all the time? Synthesis too shows the Reapers working with the other races, teaching them and guiding them, so again, why was this not the original case in the first place? How is "destroy everyone over and over again, make them like us" a better solution to a problem than "guide and teach", that anyone would ever implement the former over the latter in an effort to resolve this problem? But of course, the answer to that is, "there'd be no conflict and thus no game then", to which I reply, "well then that's fucking stupid."

Frankly it seems to me that Bioware wanted some massive twisty revelation for the sake of a twisty revelation regarding the Reapers motives just so they could try and make the game seem deeper by making it about the nature of life and existence and it just doesn't work. It would have been better if the Reapers just simply believed they were elevating advanced races to another level of existence because they just believed it was better that way. It's still Blue and Orange morality, it's still utterly alien and abhorent to most life forms, it still implies that the Reapers are seeing things in a way and on a scale that mere organics can't comprehend, but it doesn't have the stupid "save you from yourself by destroying you" nonsense that we currently have.

Personally I'd have been fine if the Reapers motives were never explicitely explained. We knew what they were doing, we knew how they were doing it, both of those facts were enough to horrify everyone into opposing it, we didn't need it explaining any more than that. It's what made them interesting, we didn't know where they came from, who built them, or why they were doing what they did. It added mystery, and then the mystery got destroyed by bullshit. We don't need to know why the Borg in Star Trek want to assimilate everyone into the collective, they just do it. They're not doing it for some grand purpose, they just think it's the right thing to impose on the galaxy and everyone else thinks otherwise.

As for it explaining all these other plotholes, no, they don't. Destroy still leaves the galaxy with no Relays, and thus mostly stranded (I'm pretty sure it's not in the power of the organics to rebuild the relays on their own, since they're basically the most advanced things in the galaxy and we've never had any evidence that organics have had any success in trying to build their own). So that still leaves a lot of a people stranded and cut off from each other, including the Quarians whose home is on the other side of the galaxy. Enjoy the trip home guys, guess all that time spent fighting over it was a waste eh?

And if you pick Control or Synthesis you still get that Stargazer scene at the end, which makes no sense since it seems to imply those people still have no FTL travel or knowledge of anything beyond their world despite the fact they should have had the relays rebuilt by then. At least in the orginal endings that scene made sense since it implied that with the destruction of the relays everyone was stranded for several generations at least, but in the new Control and Synthesis endings it shouldn't take that long to rebuild them since there are now armies of Reapers to get to work fixing things. Maybe that was true in the orginal endings as well though, which still makes the Stargazer bit make no sense. Note that I'm using the words maybe and imply a lot to talk about this, because the entire thing still isn't clear and explains absolutely nothing, which is exactly the problem.

And then there's Refuse, which whatever way you look at is just Bioware going "oh you don'y like our endings? Fuck you, everyone dies, the end." If you can't see that that's the case then you're probably delluding yourself, and the fact this ending now exists like it does just makes me like Bioware even less.

Note that I haven't once commented on anything about these endings being bittersweet or happy perfect endings. I don't care about that, I'm fine with either, I never asked for a "perfect" ending where everyone lives, the Reapers are stopped and peace reigns forever. What I asked for is an ending that makes sense and isn't a giant "fuck you and all your choices in this game series based entirely around choices." Everything you do still all amounts to shit in the end, and in the stupidest way possible.

I would also argue with you over the act of questioning Sci-Fi. Why should I not question the plot of a sci-fi? Should sci-fi plots be held to a lower level of expecation than other genres or something? Since when has sci-fi not been about questioning things? The original purpose behind science fiction stories was to expand peoples minds to new possibilities, to look to the future and imagine, to apply scientific principles and logic to things. If a particular plot doesn't make sense I should be free to call it out on that fact, regardless of what it's about. This plot still has holes, therefore it is not a good plot.

Anyway, there are probably other points, but this rant has gone on longer than I meant to, so I'll stop now.

[Marc v4.0]

1) Never read anything on BSN, that place is worse than The Nexus websites and most people there are way too infatuated with the LI plots and golden bullshit endings.

2) Nobody with a right mind wanted Bioware to make it a totally happy ending. It was never the problem with the majority of the complaints. We wanted an ending that wasn't written at the last minute by the Lead Producer and the Head Writer locking themselves in a room and coming up with it without any critical input whatsoever. Believe it or not, the games have always had a 'peer critique' system going on within the writing team to keep bullshit like this from happening, and they up and pulled rank over it. It really shows.

3) This is not acceptable. If it had been included in the first place with the game then, yes, it wouldn't have been a great ending but it would have been your typical crazy game ending. This was Bioware's chance to really pull it together and regain some faith within the customer base, and they simply set fire to the ashes again. Everything Hawk said, basically.


I'm certainly not very excited for whatever franchise they come up with next to burn into the ground, and I know a lot of other people aren't either. EA must be shitting itself over all this crap with Bioware, cutting into their bottom line and ability to sell DLC.

EDIT:

(I'm pretty sure it's not in the power of the organics to rebuild the relays on their own, since they're basically the most advanced things in the galaxy and we've never had any evidence that organics have had any success in trying to build their own).

The entire last act of Mass Effect 1 revolves around racing to the experimental relay that the Protheans built and used to return to the Citidel. It was kind of a big deal, remember?

[stefan]

yeah, the core problem here is that while these expansions may give a more in-depth explanation of the endings, they fail to address the key complaint and problem about the endings, re: everything that happens after Shepard gets fried by harbinger is absolutely and irredeemably retarded.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

The entire last act of Mass Effect 1 revolves around racing to the experimental relay that the Protheans built and used to return to the Citidel. It was kind of a big deal, remember?

I never actually played ME1, I'm on ps3. Even still, just because the Protheans built a relay, did we ever have anything saying the current races managed the same? I always saw the relays as being highly valued, irreplacable items that were beyond anyones ability to fully replicate, like Stargates or something.

And if it is the case that they can be rebuilt by organics with their current tech, then doesn't that just make the stargazer bit even more stupid? The exchange with the kid implies (there's that word again) that for several generations they've had no or limited space travel, which wouldn't be the case if relays could just be rebuilt.

[EVILNess]

I still say that the last sequence of the synthesis ending is totally the final minute of Gurren Lagann slightly retooled.

ALL THE LIGHTS IN THE SKY ARE STARS.

[Bells]

i'm just gonna take advantage to the fact that this guy mirrors my feelings quite well

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This one a little bit less, but also agree with

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[greed]

My two cents

It's still a big pile of shit, but it has reached in some places a tolerable level I guess? Still no faith in Bioware anymore. I guess my problems with the ends were


1. Starchild shits on the whole series thematically, I mean just meekly doing what the Reapers tell you at the last minute? LAAAAAMMMMMMEEE. Also it was ripping off Contact and Matrix Revolution both of which sucked. Not fixed by the EC, and the Refusal ending seems to be a deliberate fuck you to people who dislike the Starchild.


2. Synthesis the ending they push as the golden one makes no goddamn sense. Like yeah I know suspension of disbelief and all that, but Synthesis just goes way beyond everything else in the game it just shocks you out of the suspension of disbelief. The phrase "robot DNA" is used seriously. That is the kinda thing I would expect and like in a series that doesn't take itself half as seriously as ME. In addition it seems kinda like a massive violation to jam everybody full of cybernetic/organics depending on whether they are organic or synthetic. Like galactic rape. I don't even want to think about the amount of people getting fucked up body issues after this ending.EC doubles down and makes it even clearer this the is golden ending Bioware wants you to pick.


3. The endings were short lazy and didn't really tell you anything. EC does improve on this and is why Destroy is a good ending and Control an okay one.

Basically I still think Starchild ruins the whole ending, I still think the golden ending they push isn't just stupid but kind of morally wrong and sorta paints them as fucked up for thinking it's good. I also think Refusal is Bioware being petulant and passive agressive over fans daring to dislike their terrible terrible ending. But Destroy is now a pretty good ending if you ignore Starchild, cause at least you see all the Reapers die, and Control while sorta undermining some stuff in the previous games is pretty cool just for the Reaper Shepard voice over.

Basically it's gone from incredibly bad to just shitty.





Oh also Bells if you want a fun, great, big AAA game that actually sticks the landing and has a good endgame, Dragon's Dogma.

[Bells]

It's not really a secret that Bioware was pushing for Synthesis... it's the only ending that required your assets to be up to be avaliable. Just like it's not a secret AT ALL that they were pushing (almost forcing) Liara as the main romantic interest.

I, again, see myself at the same crossroads... what do you people really want?

I truly see no consensus in the people who didn't like EC... some say the endings are TOO happy, Others says it's not enough... others say that they should do more, others say that the fact that they did anything makes them hate it MORE...

Again... what were people expecting? Sometimes i honestly think people would only be satisfied if they were spoon feed EVERY little piece of data and information and anything with the slightly openness to consideration is now called a Plot Hole... specially if EVERY little thing wasn't explained or foreshadowed clearly in the previous games then it doesn't make sense... really?

Each Mass effect game is ALSO it's own closed story... you guys know this. This is not a easy thing to make. there will be cracks on the surface of course... but c'mon! The starchild is a problem, of course. But you literally spend the whole learning about the crucible and what it is...

I don't deny that the ending is not anything stellar... hell, i was frustrated by it. A lot. But the effort they made with this EC is all positive. And it pleased a lot of people... really most but the ones that were avid against it no matter what.

Now, c'mon... Dragon's Dogma is considered a good story now? Hey, it's a good game... one i hope gets it's day on the PC... But story-wise? C'mon it's a notch below Fable...

Mass effect has a fantastic story that ends on a "Ok" ending... that's more than what we usually get on the last few years across all games, genres and platforms... and it came from a company that accept that they made a mistake and fixed it by given the fans a ear without turning their own work into Fanfiction... again, doing more than most would or have done. That's fine and well by me...

[Marc v4.0]

I can't really say "The Starchild ending was the product of two people in a creative void writing it up at the last minute, and makes absolutly no sense at all with the narrative" in any more ways than we all have to help you understand what the problem was.

The only way you could possibly 'not understand' what the problem people had with it, at this point, is if you just legit can't read english.

[Sifright]

Again... what were people expecting? Sometimes i honestly think people would only be satisfied if they were spoon feed EVERY little piece of data and information and anything with the slightly openness to consideration is now called a Plot Hole... specially if EVERY little thing wasn't explained or foreshadowed clearly in the previous games then it doesn't make sense... really?

Seriously... your arguing this point? That people are just being whiny and 'entitled' for wanting a story that isn't filled with plot holes and yes they are plot holes. It's not that people need more data for the 'holes' to be filled in. It's that the plot holes fuck with previous narrative. Not everything needs to be foreshadowed but even at the end of ME3 I still have no fucking idea what the crucible is really supposed to be. It just doesn't make any sense at all.



I
Each Mass effect game is ALSO it's own closed story... you guys know this. This is not a easy thing to make. there will be cracks on the surface of course... but c'mon! The starchild is a problem, of course. But you literally spend the whole learning about the crucible and what it is...


No you don't. It's described as a weapon during the entire game the implication being it's a giant honking space gun. Even though apparently they have no fucking clue how it works or what it really does or even if they can make it work.

how did any one else not have serious problems with the alliance for going "HEY LOOK IT SOMETHING WE DONT UNDERSTAND AT ALL LETS SOME HOW BUILD IT. IT MUST END THE REAPERS BECAUSE PLOTS LAWLS."

The entire story line that focused on the crucible was stupid bullshit.

Edit:

Starchild was ridiculous for so many god damn reasons. That there should be no justification needed for why it's hated.

[greed]

The problem isn't the plot holes or missing information or whether or not it's happy. It's that Starchild is a terrible idea and should not have existed. I mean yeah the plot holes are a problem but they are nothing compared to the Starchild. I mean the ending is you literally doing one of three choices the Reapers give you. You don't see why that is an obnoxiously stupid plot point that completely flies in the face of the entire damn story? It would be like Berserk ending with Guts and the Godhand having a tea party. Or Avatar ending with Aang and the Firelord making out.

Also synthesis is nonsense that becomes unsettling when you think about it. I just got this image of people digging into their skin to get the machine parts out and other stuff.

Basically the whole thing was a clusterfuck of staggering incompetence and petulance. I suppose I shouldn't expected anything different after Dragon Age II.


Now, c'mon... Dragon's Dogma is considered a good story now? Hey, it's a good game... one i hope gets it's day on the PC... But story-wise? C'mon it's a notch below Fable...



No it doesn't have good writing but it has a fantastic and satisfying ending. Which to me makes it way better written than ME3. Sure the rest of the game wasn't but when it ended I was happy with how it ended and think back fondly and immediately started a NG+. When I beat ME3 I felt immensely disappointed and sold the game.

[Solid Snake]

The problem isn't the plot holes or missing information or whether or not it's happy. It's that Starchild is a terrible idea and should not have existed. I mean yeah the plot holes are a problem but they are nothing compared to the Starchild. I mean the ending is you literally doing one of three choices the Reapers give you. You don't see why that is an obnoxiously stupid plot point that completely flies in the face of the entire damn story? It would be like Berserk ending with Guts and the Godhand having a tea party. Or Avatar ending with Aang and the Firelord making out.

I knew Bioware wasn't going to rid of their precious Starchild in the Extended Cut, but I did at least get my hopes up and dared to dream of a final confrontation scene with Harbinger.
...Like, Bioware, Writing Tip 101: Before you end your story, you need the climax of the story to include a confrontation with the villain. And no, the Starchild doesn't count as the 'villain' because it's introduced as a last-second Deus Ex Machina device and it's willing to 'negotiate' with Shepard. And no, Marauder Shields doesn't count, either.

Like, here's the thing: It didn't need to be a boss battle gameplay sequence or anything. Just have Harbinger and Shepard share a goddamn five minute conversation. I'm shocked Bioware didn't realize that was a good idea. It'd at least help wash down the sour taste of the Starchild.

Also synthesis is nonsense that becomes unsettling when you think about it. I just got this image of people digging into their skin to get the machine parts out and other stuff.

Synthesis is, by far, the most disturbing and least ethically acceptable of the three endings, and that's comparing it to an ending where you effectively commit suicide (because Bioware's writers couldn't actually have Shepard try to do anything after his/her great speech in 'Refusal'), an ending where you commit fucking genocide, and an ending in which you forget the themes of the Mass Effect series, decide you retroactively agreed with the Illusive Man all along and become Space Reaper Jesus.

...I mean in the 'Synthesis' ending you essentially unilaterally alter every individual's genetic hard-wiring (through space-magic!), without their prior permission, in a manner that shouldn't exactly lead anyone to parade Shepard around as a hero of anything, except maybe a hero of coercion, invasion of privacy, battery, and sheer unadulterated stupidity.

All the endings except 'Refusal' are extremely objectionable based on basic, universal principles of 'human' rights (which presumably also might apply to Asari, Turians, Krogan, etc.) Bioware is just hoping you don't squint and micro-analyze the options enough to realize that Shepard (if alive, as s/he is in Reaperized form in 'Control' and potentially in human form in 'Destroy') should be tried as a war criminal for negotiating with the enemy and unilaterally agreeing to a 'solution' with massive consequences.

...And in the 'Refusal' option, congratulations! You lose. And you don't just lose with some degree of dignity; Bioware is too busy giving you the middle finger to dare at least let Shepard and his team go out with their dignity intact.

The sad thing is, take the 'Refusal' ending, make it the default ending for the series when the game was originally released, and maybe reward you with a slightly better outcome if you garnered an exceptional amount of war assets, and that ending would have been fine. Hell, have the additional war assets only make a difference in terms of whether it's implied the next cycle can defeat the reapers or not. Way back before ME3 was released, I speculated that ME3 might end on a downer, with Shepard's efforts only paving the way for the next cycle to finally conquer the Reaper threat.
Where I disagree with Greed is, I don't care if the antagonist represents itself as Harbinger or another Reaper or displays itself as a holographic child or as your love interest or what have you.

I just want Shepard to refuse the bastard and remain in-character. And I don't want the game to treat the one reasonable interpretation of Shepard's characterization akin to a submission of defeat. The 'Refusal' ending would have been just fine if Shepard didn't just stand there as the Starchild walked away, after, you know, Shepard literally JUST made a speech about how s/he'd keep fighting and how s/he'd never give up.

And it would have been just fine if the 'Refusal' ending was included as original content, instead of included in the EC, when the very essence of its inclusion is essentially Bioware just responding to criticism with a middle finger to those who dared criticize.

It's not about a 'happy ending'; Bioware could have annihilated Shepard and his friends the moment Shepard chose 'Refuse.' Just show them all going down fighting. Have Shepard broadcast that last speech to the fleet, show the main characters applauding Shepard for being a badass who refuses to give into demands to commit genocide or forcible synthetic augmentation, and then kill them all off. That would have been phenomenal.
...Too bad it's not what we got.

[Pip Boy]

Since Bioware's writers are just bad at writing endings I'll go ahead and let someone else write it for them.

"So Shepard, its up to you to choose."

"No! You're a creep. Go away. We were having a good time until you showed up jeepers. Uuuuugh. Go drink some coffee with cream or something, because I'll tell you something, this is a happy place!"

Can someone please make that a video? Because that'd be good.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I don't know why noone understands where the star baby comes from. didn't you watch 2001

[Arcanum]

"So Shepard, its up to you to choose."

"No! You're a creep. Go away. We were having a good time until you showed up jeepers. Uuuuugh. Go drink some coffee with cream or something, because I'll tell you something, this is a happy place!"

You are my favorite person ever for making that reference.


Also, about the refusal ending, it's pretty ridiculous in general simply how it's initiated. Shepard shoots a hologram. Why would Shepard ever do that? The whole thing just felt like an Easter-Egg/Alternate-Ending thing Bioware threw in for a laugh.

[greed]

I should note that I personally quite like the new versions of destroy and control and if they weren't attached to the Starchild I'd be pretty happy with them. The problem is Shepard appeasing and basically being a submissive little Quisling to Harbinger wearing a kid suit (as the Refuse ending implies). Well that and Synthesis being DUUUUMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBB. Like Synthesis sounded like soemthing from the Think Tank in OWB. It makes no goddamn sense. And it's kinda grossly immoral for the reasons Snake outlined, it's basically genetic rape.

Also that Refuse is as I said before really childishly handled.

Oh BTW Arcanum I think you can get Refusal through dialogue.

Edit: I especially like how while Paragon Control Shepard comes off like a more benevolent Shai Hulud preparing to gently guide the galaxy to a peaceful golden age, Renegade Control Shep sounds minutes away from going SHODAN on everyone's asses and sticking every living thing, organic or synthetic, in safety tubes for their own protection. And possibly some experimentation.


Edit x 2: I just realised the most horrible thing about the ending that makes it undermine everything. Saren was right. The ending is Shepard proving her worth to the Reapers and them letting us live. Exactly as Saren planned to do, but succeeding. Saren was right all along, everything Shepard did was utterly meaningless.

[Bells]

i heard some of that online, but ME1 is the one i haven't played yet... how does it relate?

As for the whole crucible thing, the original ending does not tell me that, but via the EC i could understand that the crucible was a huge battery that could override the Reaper's control (the machine part i would imagine) giving you power to take over them (but taking over their human conscience with yours) or to destroy them (by shutting them down) as the Citadel has always been a major part of the Reaper collective... the Synthesis thing was more of a "magical ending" where the Reapers somewhat "admit defeat" by bonding Humans and machine (and apparently allowing all to retain their individuality) to create a new paradigm that would make their cycle useless... i'm not saying it's not stupid, but at least now i can understand where the writers were trying to go with this...

[Red Fighter 1073]

Saren was the main villain of ME1, a rogue turian spectre. His idea to save everybody from getting destroyed by the Reapers was to appease them and prove our usefulness in the hope that they would spare some of us when they finally came. Also notable is the fact that his main flagship was actually an ancient Reaper called Sovereign that indoctrinated him enough to have him do its bidding.

Also, another funny thing I just realized on the Saren subject is in regards to the Synthesis ending. Once the first fight with Saren is finished on the Citadel, Sovereign takes over his body and he is revealed to have become partly synthetic, much like how people would be in the Synthesis ending right? Are the Reapers still alive in the Synthesis ending? If they are, it makes think that the Synthesis ending is pretty much the Reapers taking control of everyone instead of killing them.

[Bells]

During the synthesis ending you can see a soldier being attacked by a Husk, then the green flash happens and the Husk stops attacking and actually raises up and starts looking around, standing next to the soldier... as if it had grown a conscience and became aware and non-hostile.

I know who Saren is, but since i didn't play ME1 i can't comment on how well they connect with the events of ME3 endings... but it's kinda like with the Illusive Man, no? He was also under Reaper influence and he was also Right... the Reaper's are controllable, just not by him...

What sort of Magical space genetics set apart Saren, TIM and Shepard i don't know... maybe it's because Shepard's ideals were stronger and actually focus on the better benefit of the whole Galaxy (which the Reapers claim to do in their own way) or maybe it's just cause he is the guy with a camera floating over his shoulder... video games!

[Pip Boy]

My complaints is that if reapers really had technology all along so powerful that they could simultaneously turn every organic being into a synthetic-organic hybrid, they really should not have had to attack as they did. They'd probably just have a kill button at that point that unleashed deadly kill-waves causing everything intelligent to die.

[Arcanum]

Oh BTW Arcanum I think you can get Refusal through dialogue.


Okay yeah in that case it's pretty stupid.

My complaints is that if reapers really had technology all along so powerful that they could simultaneously turn every organic being into a synthetic-organic hybrid, they really should not have had to attack as they did. They'd probably just have a kill button at that point that unleashed deadly kill-waves causing everything intelligent to die.

Wasn't the crucible something designed over however many cycles, with each cycle adding new bits and pieces to the design as they tried to build it in order to stop the Reapers?

[Bells]

Yes... the reapers never had that ability and were, in fact, trying to prevent this. They even mentioned that they had underestimated the other races and their ability to protect and hide the Crucible from them.

Through the new Dialogue the Starchild makes it perfectly clear that Shepard proved that the Reaper's solution no longer would work and that they would need a new one, using the Crucible's Battery and override as the method to do it...

Since Shepard was the man that made it all happen and the first to make it that far into a cycle, the Reapers offered to pass control over to him, allowed him to eliminate all Synthetics or fuse the two together....

Again, not saying it's perfect... just that NOW i can see that this is where they were trying to go with this.

[Solid Snake]

I should note that I personally quite like the new versions of destroy and control and if they weren't attached to the Starchild I'd be pretty happy with them. The problem is Shepard appeasing and basically being a submissive little Quisling to Harbinger wearing a kid suit (as the Refuse ending implies).

I'd be okay with the Destroy and Control endings if the Starchild didn't appear, Shepard was negotiating with Harbinger instead, Shepard wasn't submissive in negotiations, and you actually could contact other interested parties and inform them of the terms.

...If the Geth know what 'Destroy' implies and they're like "Shepard Commander, we understand you have no choice in the matter. We will sacrifice our race so that all others may live without fearing the return of the Reapers. Just ask the Quarians to rebuild us, so we can prove the reapers wrong in a future where organic and synthetic life know true peace." That'd have been an incredibly powerful moment. And it probably would have single-handily redeemed 'Destroy' for me.

...And yes, Synthesis is the worst ending. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a very strange definition of what actions are morally acceptable.

Also that Refuse is as I said before really childishly handled.


An extra two minutes of footage in which Shepard attempted to send an inspiring message to the fleet, attempted to rendezvous with other Citadel survivors (since Bioware is actually on record now as suggesting that there were other survivors present on the Citadel), doing anything whatsoever after the speech would have helped tremendously. His/her efforts didn't have to succeed; s/he just needed to make the effort.

EDIT: And Bells: Why couldn't the Starchild, upon suggesting that Shepard proved humanity's worth or some shit and showed the system had failed, have just offered to fly the Reapers the hell away from the Milky Way Galaxy? No need to commit genocide, no need to commit universal battery in the form of undesired genetic alteration, no need for Shepard to become Reaper Space Zombie Jesus. Shepard can just say "Hey Starchild, tell the reapers that the Andromeda Galaxy looks beautiful this time of year." Bam! Done.

[Pip Boy]

The whole starchild thing seems to suggest that the Crucicble was a part of the cycle from the beginning, and that it was intended to be an override to the reaper solution should the reaper solution ever fail.

[Bells]

the starchild literally says they wanted the Crucible destroyed and thought they had done so, being surprised that the plans for it still existed. The "Reaper Solution" was imposed even upon those who created the Catalyst and they too resisted it.

It still doesn't make perfectly clear as to why the Reapers didn't attack the Crucible while it was under construction... the Crucible is an Override, that is made clear now. But it's not by Reaper design... maybe it has Reaper tech on it... we don't know how the previous battles went...

And it certainly seems more "practical" to find a way to Shut down this partially machine beings or take over them instead of some sort of magical space cannon to destroy every single one of them...

Also, i got the full list of changes

Content added to or changed in Mass Effect 3 by the Extended Cut includes the following (see Priority: Earth for more details):

Cutscenes

During the final rush to the beam, Shepard's squadmates will be shown being incinerated by Harbinger's beam or getting critically wounded and evacuated to safety by the Normandy, depending on the player's EMS score.

When Shepard is making his/her choice (Destroy, Control, Synthesis), Joker is no longer seen in the flashback. Instead, a character who died during the course of the game will appear. Also, the last flashback is no longer always Liara, but whoever was Shepard's love interest.

When the Crucible achieves firing status, Admiral Hackett orders the surviving allied fleets to evacuate from Earth's orbit, thus explaining the Normandy being caught in the energy wave while in transit.

Scenes of victories against the Reapers on Thessia, Tuchanka, and Palaven.

Narrations of the aftermath depending on Shepard's choice, by Admiral Hackett (Destroy), Shepard as the new Reaper master consciousness (Control), or EDI (Synthesis).

Aftermath of various species, including humans, krogan, quarians, and geth.

Aftermath of Shepard's crew members, if they survived the war.

Surviving squadmates on Normandy place Shepard's name onto the memorial wall, with Admiral Anderson's already on it. However, if the Destroy ending was chosen, the Commander's name is not actually shown to be placed on the wall. This, coupled with the cutscene of Shepard breathing in the rubble (if the player's EMS is high enough), leaves the Commander's final fate open to suggestion.

The Normandy is seen either undergoing repairs or departing the planet it had crashed on.

Dialogue

The Catalyst's original dialogue has been largely altered and Shepard can now investigate for further information regarding Reaper origins and the specifics of the Crucible's abilities.

A fourth option is provided to the player as an alternative to the original three. Shepard can now refuse to activate the Crucible, either through dialogue or by shooting at the
Catalyst. This dooms the galaxy to another successful Reaper purge. This option triggers two unique cutscenes:

One of Liara's time capsules is shown on an unknown planet, and a recording of Liara explains that the capsule contains a record of her generation's war against the Reapers and information necessary to stop them.

After the credits, an alternate Stargazer scene is shown - a child and a female of unknown species (suggested to be from the next cycle) refer to how the previous cycle's experience helped them achieve peace.

Fixes

The required Effective Military Strength rating to achieve the best possible ending is lowered from 4,000 to 3,100.[6]

Ambient dialogue on the Normandy SR-2 between Kenneth Donnelly/Gabriella Daniels and Garrus Vakarian/Tali'Zorah is restored.[7]

Also this

The Catalyst approaches Shepard and explains the purpose of the Reapers, their origins, and the ways in which Shepard can utilize the Crucible to stop them; Destruction, Control, or Synthesis. The availability of choices and the severity of the collateral damage on the galaxy will be determined entirely by the player's Effective Military Strength.

If EMS is between 0-1749, only one option will be availalable depending on the player's choice at the end of Mass Effect 2: Control, if Shepard saved the Collector Base, and Destroy if Shepard did not. Both will result in massive physical damage to Earth, with Destroy killing everyone on Earth.
If EMS is between 1750-2349, both Destroy or Control options are available, but either choice will cause some substantial damage to the galaxy.
If EMS is between 2350-2649, the Control option will cause no physical damage but the Destroy option will still cause widespread damage.
If EMS is 2650+ the Destroy and Control options will no longer cause any physical harm to the galaxy.
If EMS is 2800+ the Synthesis ending becomes available.
If EMS is 3100+ and the Destroy option is chosen, Shepard is seen barely alive, gasping for breath (if Anderson is shot by the Illusive Man, the player needs a higher EMS to see this short scene).

[greed]

I like to think that in the new Control ending it eventually plays out like God Emperor of Dune with God Shepard manipulating everything so the controlled species eventually surpass her and the Reapers on even ground and then explode across the universe with intergalactic travel and other crazy tech. Also that Garrus is basically like Duncan.