Dark Souls™: Prepare To Die™ Edition worth it?

[Roland]

So, recently a few friends of mine have been going on about Dark Souls. I know, I know, it's pretty old by now. Thing is, one of my friends loves the PC version of the game and claims it's better than the console version.

The rest insist that the PC version is a horrible port job and that the console version is superior, be it for balance reasons, framerate/resolution issues, or control issues. From what I understand, some of the issues with the PC version can be patched, while others can't. The big issue for me is mostly controls.

I don't have a computer-capable controller yet, but would it still be worth it to buy the PC version of the game over the console version?

Also, how the heck do you trademark the phrase "Prepare to die"? Seriously, that's bugging me now.

[Azisien]

The keyboard and mouse controls are manageable, but I wholeheartedly support the "terrible port" notion. They'll feel terrible at first but like any control scheme, you adapt quickly.

It's bad, as far as ports go.

But, you can remap a lot of keys to better positions, and you can download the mod that fixes the resolution (It's locked at 720p that it's at for consoles). Game actually plays a lot better at 1080 or higher.

[Arcanum]

The game was meant to be played with a controller. I'll just say that right now. And while the PC version is a bare-bones port, the game itself is amazing. In terms of balance, software-wise, I'm unsure if the console version has been patched to reflect the changes made in Prepare to Die, or if those changes will wait for the release of the Artorias of the Abyss DLC. Player-wise, word is there are a lot of cheaters on the PC using trainers and whatever else to min-max their stats, load up on infinite items, and go to town trolling players. In my own experience I've only encountered two or three invaders that definitely looked like they were min-maxing, but that is a problem present in the console version as well (it's just easier and less time-consuming on the PC thanks to trainers).

Anyway, like Azi said, there's a mod that fixes the graphical issues (it's called DSfix and is available right here (http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/)) and I've had less framerate issues with the PC version than the PS3 version (although the beginning of Blighttown still had some significant slow down).

So with all that said, I'd say the deal breaker between the two versions would be the controls. Personally I tried keyboard and mouse for all of five minutes before hating it and going back to a controller. It's just that the game was designed with a controller in mind, and with it being a basic port there was almost no effort put into making the game or UI friendly to keyboards.

Also, it should be said that for $40 you're getting both Dark Souls and the Artorias of the Abyss DLC, whereas on the console you will have to buy the DLC separately, if you're so inclined. Either way, whichever version you choose, and despite the game's age, you should definitely play it.

[greed]

See the thing I've heard is it's a perfect port. In that it is identical to the console version (and even that's not true I've heard the framerate is far more stable if your PC is better than a PS3). A lot of the whining is from PC fanboys screaming and wailing about the PC version not being improved as befits their glorious PC master race. Basically you'll get the console experience nothing more, nothing less. But seeing as the game is better than any other game of the last 10 years on PC or console that's not really an issue.

TLDR it's not a bad port like SR2 or RE4 where the PC versio was actually worse than the console version. Dark Souls PC is identical to slightly better.

But yeah you definitely need a controller, it's not that the controls are badly done it's just the controls are designed for a controller to a point that keyboard and mouse simply will not work under any combination of keys and mouse it will always be vastly inferior.

Basically if you've got a good PC and can be bothered shelling out for a controller and dealing with the framerate mods it is the better version of Dark Souls. If not I'd get it for the PS3. But get it whatever you do it's the best game of the last decade.

[Revising Ocelot]

I'll more likely than not be picking this up come the Christmas sales, assuming I can steal one of my brother's 360 controllers (they do work on PC, right?). KB+M controls... well, I've heard the keyboard is fine, but the mouse is extremely messed up - to the point where people rebind it to IJKL.

The fact that somebody could mod in resolution fixes less than six hours after the game came out is shockingly poor form by FromSoftware, but oh well.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

If you need community fixes to make a port work as you would expect on your platform it's a shitty port. The End.

The game itself however is easily my favorite game of the decade. At the very least. Maybe of all time, we'll see. There have been very very few games that make me keep coming back for more. And even after 6 or 7 Playthroughs I keep finding new stuff, try out new builds and so on. And I have yet to even try one of the builds that require intended (by the developers) sequence breaking. The lore is rich, the gameplay is deep, there are no fucking 10 hour cutscenes or endless dialogue trees. The focus is clearly on the gameplay and figuring out the world.

I wont get the Prepare to Die edition on PC, but I'll get it on PS3 as soon as it releases. Maybe by then I'll be reliably online with my PS3 and can download the expansion by itself instead of buying the whole game plus the expansion in a store again. Even though for a game that great I'd be willing to pay that as well.

So, I highly recommend playing the game, but get the resolution fix, I heard it actually makes the game run better in general. If you have the console and are willing to pay the extra bucks, just wait until it releases for consoles.

[greed]

If you need community fixes to make a port work as you would expect on your platform it's a shitty port. The End.




It works fine. It works exactly the same as consoles. It's a mod. People keep throwing around "bad port" like it's actually a problem that makes it worse than the console versions. It's exactly the same game as what was on consoles which was far better than anything else of the last 10 years.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

If I had never played the game before and got it now for PC I'd be pretty pissed to find that I can't run it in my monitors resolution without first applying a mod that has been released within hours of the release. So it can't have been too hard to add that feature. They probably just ported the X360 game directly and didn't actually do much to it. It's a lazy port at best. It runs, but it's evident they didn't put much work into it. I'm not going to call it a good port just because it works the same because that's kinda the problem. It's the console game but on PC with very little done to accommodate to a completely different audience. Supporting the most common resolutions and decent Mouse+Keyboard controls (not everyone has an X360 or similar gamepad, after all) would have been the first things I'd expect from a decent port. The game is great, but the port is poorly done. In my opinion anyway. The only thing that speaks for it, as a port, is that it's not infamous for crashes.

[Arcanum]

I define a good port as a game, while originally released on system X, tailored to take advantage of everything system Y has to offer. An example of this off the top of my head is Deus Ex: Human Revolution. The weapon quick select is a wheel menu on consoles, but uses your number keys on the PC. You can also use your numpad to enter access codes, and other things like that.

Meanwhile Dark Souls is the exact same game it is on consoles, only forced into a PC-shaped box. There are things it does well, such as giving you the option to change all of your keybindings, but your quick swap items/spells still have the cross reminiscent of a d-pad. However there were a lot of things done wrong, such as the resolution was locked in with no option to change it whatsoever and there are no advanced graphics options.

PC players aren't whining because the game wasn't improved for them. They are complaining because the port is lacking features that you would expect any PC game from five years ago to have.

Yes the game is basically the same as it is on consoles, but that is what qualifies it as a port, not a good port.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

I'm not surprised about the minimalist approach for porting it to PC. It is from From Software, after all. They're notorious for avoiding the PC platform at almost all costs and when they do make a port, three total so far to my knowledge, it is done with as little footwork possible. So color me surprised when I read about it and wasn't surprised that they did very little port work in the end.

This member of the glorious master race won't be playing it because I hate relying on third party fixes for something the dev's should've been assed to address in the first place. Chiefly the resolution issue. Not having a controller, and not willing to shell out cash for one for just one game, is another.

[PyrosNine]

Pyros wanted PC version, as PS3 and Xbox are not an option, but it seems recent monetary problems deny me. And then there's the fact I'd need to upgrade my PC a smidgen to play it. Little disappointed!

[Arcanum]

Well, since we're talking Dark Souls, I just completed the Artorias of the Abyss content (the stuff that will be console DLC later), and it's pretty solid. While the content becomes available after you get the lordvessel, it felt like the difficulty was higher than the other areas that become available to you at that same time. To be clear, I find that a good thing, considering most of the people playing this additional content will have already cleared Dark Souls a number of times. There's some interesting new armor and weapons, as well as a few sorceries and a pyromancy spell that deal physical damage instead of magical, and allegedly scale off your strength (I don't know if that's the spells themselves or if you need to be using the new catalyst that scales on strength and int). The boss fights were pretty fun as well, although the two bosses that have tails for you to cut off rarely present you with a chance to attack the tail, so it can be a pain in the ass.

Best part of the DLC by far was seeing young Sif, freeing her, and being able to summon her during the boss fight of that area. Even better is when you go to fight Sif to get the Abysswalker ring, she recognizes you and seems reluctant to fight you. It adds a whole new layer of melancholy to the fight as you're no longer delivering the killing blow to a wounded animal, but to a friend.

[Roland]

Okay, so I went and bought the game and borrowed my cousin's wired 360 controller to play it.

... cripe, this game is hard. I mean I knew it'd be hard, but not "stunlocked and killed in three hits by the first skeleton you run into" hard.

But I am having fun, so... I don't mind it.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

After a while you'll find it's not really that hard. It just has a steep learning curve. Once you've found a playstyle that suits you and figured out the mechanics you'll think of it more as challenging than hard.

Probably, some people don't have the patience to reach that point.

[Arcanum]

Okay, so I went and bought the game and borrowed my cousin's wired 360 controller to play it.

... cripe, this game is hard. I mean I knew it'd be hard, but not "stunlocked and killed in three hits by the first skeleton you run into" hard.

But I am having fun, so... I don't mind it.

In regards to being stunlocked, there's a stat called "Poise" that makes you less likely to flinch when you're attacked. Medium to heavy weight armor are the only ones that have a poise value though. This knowledge probably won't help you until quite some time later into the game when you are finding more armor pieces, but it's still a good thing to know.

[Magus]

I'm kind of like with greed on this one, if it's not like the GTA IV PC version where there were massive graphical and gameplay glitches like the cars melting or people falling through the floor or whatever. If it's simply a port that plays exactly like the console...it is what it is. If you're an absolute strict PC player, which many people are, it's the only way you're going to play Dark Souls without getting a PS3.

I heard a similar complaint about Max Payne 3 which is that unlike the first two, the actual gameplay was designed around being on a console (the fact that the gameplay was built around cover fire was just one part of it, I believe there are other issues regarding this), and the PC version just wasn't really tweaked to play better on the PC. I almost think that's what they're saying--they want it to play better on the PC to make it worth buying. Well...just buy it if you are a PC-only player, basically. I assume that's who it is really aimed at, not people who have a console but were waiting for the PC version because in their mind third-person Western RPGs are better on PC. They usually are, but that's because they are usually designed for the PC market and then ported to consoles. This is the reverse. Dark Souls was designed for the console market and was designed to play in a way that is best for consoles. This is a port.

The resolutions, well, that's just lazy, I guess. But the complaints about the interface being superior with a gamepad...well, it was designed around a gamepad interface to begin with. Racing games suck on a keyboard, too, but there are plenty of racing game ports on PC because if I only own a PC and I really want to play, whatever, Need for Speed or Driver: San Francisco, at least I can without buying a console. I don't know that I would expect them to somehow make playing it with a keyboard as good as playing it with a controller, though.

EDIT: Regarding learning curves, I've played about 50%-60% of Demon's Souls and just haven't been back to it, because it's not so much that it's hard, it's that the way the experience works makes it kind of nerve wracking to do the experimentation required to beat it, to me. I kind of figured out to just go ahead and level and spend the souls and THEN go and try to actually beat stuff because otherwise you'll just be constantly dying and never getting your character upgraded because you never get back to your bloodstain and thus lose your "currency" to buy stat upgrades. It's FUN but I can't see how the nerve wracking experience system made it funner. It just makes it nerve wracking.

Basically the game is fun yet stressful, which lowers the fun, for me. It's much more of a time sink than say, Contra, so when you die 30 minutes into a dungeon and have to repeat all that stuff again because it's not built like a standard RPG, it's just like, argh, you know? Probably the best I can compare it to is the original Final Fantasy where you could just straight-up lose hours of gameplay by getting killed because you can only save in an inn, so if you get killed on the way back from that dungeon that took you an hour, well, too bad. Why do you think Japanese RPGs integrated in-dungeon save points and allowed you to save on the world map? Why do you think Western RPGs usually let you save anywhere any time? It's because it's nerve wracking.

I like hard games. Take Contra, I love Contra: Shattered Soldier or Contra III, for example. But the entirety of Contra takes 40 minutes to beat. It's not the same as when you lose an hour of progress in Demon's Souls and were only trying to be a tiny fraction of the game.

Oh, another tip: don't bother reviving yourself very often. Only do it if it's strategically important to getting past a particular part because otherwise it's just like, you'll probably get killed again.

[greed]

Nah be human as often as possible, humanity is easy to get since the first patch and multiplayer is fun*.



*may refer to actual fun or DF fun, experiences may vary

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Regarding learning curves, I've played about 50%-60% of Demon's Souls and just haven't been back to it, because it's not so much that it's hard, it's that the way the experience works makes it kind of nerve wracking to do the experimentation required to beat it, to me. I kind of figured out to just go ahead and level and spend the souls and THEN go and try to actually beat stuff because otherwise you'll just be constantly dying and never getting your character upgraded because you never get back to your bloodstain and thus lose your "currency" to buy stat upgrades. It's FUN but I can't see how the nerve wracking experience system made it funner. It just makes it nerve wracking.

Of course I do see why some people wouldn't like that part of the experience. But it really is one of the key reasons I enjoy the Souls games so much. I viewed it as a welcome part of the experience. It's only through that kind of pressure that I feel satisfaction when overcome a challenge. And in fact the D. Souls games are the only games in years that gave me this feeling of accomplishment.

Then there's stuff like, say, God of War, where you kill huge-ass monsters with finger nails bigger than your character, but it doesn't feel intense to me. Games like that are mostly movies where you also push buttons sometimes. I'm just not feeling it. Meanwhile. Dark Souls Fuck Yeah.

[Arcanum]

I have lost ~40 humanity over two lost blood stains, with about 20 humanity each time (and the first time I also lost 100k souls). Back at launch I would have been livid, ready to smash in some faces. But now, thanks to the changes they made to the drop rate of Humanity, it's no big deal. And shortly before I lost my humanity for the second time I had given the Daughter of Chaos 30 humanity so I could save Solaire.

So yeah it's really no big deal if you die in human form. Also, there are several NPC black phantom invasions that drop some nice loot, and those only trigger when you're in human form.

[Roland]

Two days later and those skellies I was having trouble with are now a joke.

I'm at a bit of a crossroads now, though. I either have to face Capra Demon (which completely wrecks my shit in an instant), or I can go right to this one spider boss (and completely get my shit wrecked in an instant).

... yeah, I think I might actually be stuck now.

Also, low on humanity due to constantly losing it in hard to reach places, then dying on my way to get back to it.

[Krylo]

Capra is what you'd normally do next, and is actually super easy once you figure out how to do it.

And a super pain in the ass bullshit before that point.

[greed]

Two days later and those skellies I was having trouble with are now a joke.

I'm at a bit of a crossroads now, though. I either have to face Capra Demon (which completely wrecks my shit in an instant), or I can go right to this one spider boss (and completely get my shit wrecked in an instant).

... yeah, I think I might actually be stuck now.

Also, low on humanity due to constantly losing it in hard to reach places, then dying on my way to get back to it.


Do you have the white soapstone? Put a sign down near the path to the old church in the church and help people fight the gargoyles, should give you humanity and levels. Also have you gotten past the dragon, you don't need to kill it, just get past it?

Also if you're having trouble with capra find or equip the wolf ring, and get a shield with high stability.

[Arcanum]

I'm at a bit of a crossroads now, though. I either have to face Capra Demon (which completely wrecks my shit in an instant), or I can go right to this one spider boss (and completely get my shit wrecked in an instant).

... yeah, I think I might actually be stuck now.

Capra Demon is the Dark Souls hazing. It is so ludicrously hard for players that aren't already familiar with the fight, and especially for players new to the game. The only advice I can really give on that fight is try your best to kill the dogs asap. Also, don't make a beeline for the stairs, 'cause most likely that will get you pinned against the wall. You need to dodge past the dogs before going up the stairs.

However, another path open to you is the Darkroot Forest, and fighting the Moonlight Butterfly. There's a door where Andre of Astora, the blacksmith, resides (under the Undead Parish bonfire) that leads to a room guarded by a Titanite Demon, and beyond that the forest. You can just run past the Titanite Demon. I suggest going through the forest as an undead up until you reach the boss room (it's a fog gate inside a broken down tower) so you get a feel for the level. Then go back, restore your humanity, and summon Beatrice, an NPC white phantom (her sign is at the base of the ruined tower, inside, hidden in some bushes).

[Krylo]

summon Beatrice, an NPC white phantom (her sign is at the base of the ruined tower, inside, hidden in some bushes).

Summoning her here makes her summonable against the kings later, and summoning her both times lets you get her outfit.

[Arcanum]

and summoning her both times lets you get her outfit.

Not true. Her outfit is available after the Four Kings fight even if you never summon her.

[Azisien]

I finally killed the Taurus Demon after about 12 deaths. Fucker. I am getting pretty used to the controls, and due to being a PC gamer, I'm way more at home playing than I ever was on the Xbox.

You want to know a shitty, annoying thing that this port can't seem to handle: dual monitors. It doesn't have proper fullscreen, so I constantly (and I attribute about 5 deaths up above to this) scroll onto my second monitor and Dark Souls minimizes.

Dark Souls is not a game that forgives minimizing, no siree. I have to start dropping to single monitor to play the damn game. What a hassle.

[Arcanum]

So there's an area near the end of the Artorias of the Abyss content that has a rather large group of enemies that drop Humanity. This drop rate seems to be higher than both giant rats and baby skeletons. I did three runs through the area with max (410) item discovery, each run took about 3 minutes, with an extra 40-60 seconds of running back to the bonfire because I was too cheap to use Homeward Bones. On average I got about 7 humanities per run, and 2 twin humanities per run.

Sooo yeah, humanity is basically a non-issue.

[BahamutFlare]

Capra Demon is the Dark Souls hazing. It is so ludicrously hard for players that aren't already familiar with the fight, and especially for players new to the game. The only advice I can really give on that fight is try your best to kill the dogs asap. Also, don't make a beeline for the stairs, 'cause most likely that will get you pinned against the wall. You need to dodge past the dogs before going up the stairs.

However, another path open to you is the Darkroot Forest, and fighting the Moonlight Butterfly. There's a door where Andre of Astora, the blacksmith, resides (under the Undead Parish bonfire) that leads to a room guarded by a Titanite Demon, and beyond that the forest. You can just run past the Titanite Demon. I suggest going through the forest as an undead up until you reach the boss room (it's a fog gate inside a broken down tower) so you get a feel for the level. Then go back, restore your humanity, and summon Beatrice, an NPC white phantom (her sign is at the base of the ruined tower, inside, hidden in some bushes).

Is Capra Demon really that tough for new people? I had a good shield and Drake Sword or maybe I had a spear at that time. The shield blocked most of the damage done by anything I couldn't just walk out of the way. Then I counter. It took me two tries because the first time I ran out of healing items getting there. I wasn't expecting half the guys popping out of buildings. And I wasn't expecting the dogs. The 2nd fight, I got the dogs away from Capra, slaughtered them, and Capra went down so easy. Just make sure you don't get backed into a corner. The small room is really what makes the fight difficult.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Yeah, most people think Capra is hard. It's one of those fights you either need incredible luck for or you have to have fought him before and know a good strategy. It's generally known as the most bullshit boss of the early game.

You fight it in very close quarters, it has two companions, it has several unblockable attacks and decent reach. Most people, including me, got killed by its first attack while still trying to see what he can even do. Even if you manage to avoid that, there are still dogs. Once those are dead Capra Demon is easy, but it might take one a few tries to find a reliable method to kill them.

It's best to use a thrusting weapon of some kind

[Azisien]

Got as far as I've ever been, which is the gargoyles. Died to them a few times before someone explained to me how to summon the Knight guy to help. Died the first time with him and using my last humanity, I accidentally got stabbed to death by some normal skeletons on the way to the roof. Lost 10k souls and 11 humanity. Time to explore elsewhere!

[EVILNess]

Those skeletons that roll at you with wheels are fucking BULLSHIT.

That is all.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Just take them one by one and dodge 'em, man.

In one area there's also that one spot where you can drop attack, like, four of them if you lure them with arrows.

[Roland]

Boy have I come far now... just cleared Blighttown and Que... Quelo... Lava Vomitting Spider Lady. Now I'm at Sen's Fortress, I think.

... gah, and I thought Blighttown was frustrating.

[Krylo]

Sen's Fortress is the second best part of the game!

[Roland]

Sen's Fortress was funner once I started using my longbow. Now I'm onto Anor Londo, and I have to ask...

Who the hell thought giving two archers massive bows that fire javelins, then positioning them in a remote location that's both hard to get to and necessary to continue the level, was a good idea?

Seriously, I just... I've been trying ranged combat here just because trying run up to them gets me skewered and shoved off into the abyss. Somebody suggested Poison Arrows for that, but I can't seem to hit one more than once before all further shots just whiff.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Hahaha. That spot. Universally known to every Dark Souls player as the most bullshit part of the game except a boss you'll encounter later.

What I usually do is run up to them and go to the right one first (the only one you actually have to defeat) and get him to draw his sword, which you can rather easily parry if you trained against Black Knights, it's also possible to block his attacks but it'll be much harder. If you carry your catalyst/flame in your right hand you can use magic as well. After you've taken care of that one you can either proceed or go kill that other guy and get a Hero's (?) Soul. He's much easier to beat than the other one, but you might wanna play it safe.

E: Anor Londo also has what may be my favorite boss fight in the game. It acts kind of as a gatekeeper to the second half/last third of the game. One of the more difficult bosses, but not unfairly so. Skill is all you need.

[Roland]

Gah...

So, after some unnecessary grinding after having powered my way through almost all of Anor Londo, I decided to take on the bosses there. George and Lenny, as I've taken to calling them.

So here I am, strutting my notdead stuff over to Solaire's mark. And I'm all "hey Solaire, help a bro out!" And he's all "Praise the sun!"

And then right at the foot of the goddamn steps to the boss room...

Red phantom.

Fuck. This. Game. Damn it, I'll be back to it tomorrow.

[Krylo]

Anor is PvP central. Mostly because there's a covenant that lets you invade only people in Anor Londo and only when they've done a specific thing.

But having all those people in Anor draws other PvPers as well. Plus the room right before the boss is a pretty great place for PvP in general. Wide open area, lots of movement room, and decent environmental advantages/hazards to take advantage of. So's the bridge. So yeah, you gotta be ready to fight people if you're gonna try to be not dead there.

There's a forest that's like that as well.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Brolaire might be necessary for that fight if you're new, I remember that I thought it was impossible to beat the boss without assistance my first time around. you can also try summoning white phantoms, they'll be of much more assistance to you against O+S and also against black phantoms. Now beating them alone is my preferred way, since summoning Solaire can be quite difficult because of the Royal Sentinels that guard the room.

[BahamutFlare]

The first time playing Anor Londo, I finally made it to the bonfire right after those stupid knights with longbows that insta kill you with the help of one of my friends. 5 feet from the bonfire...[Dark Phantom has invaded]. AKA you can't even light the bonfire now.

Biggest tease ever. The rest of Anor Londo wasn't hard, but I still died to the Phantom, so no save for me.

[EVILNess]

I didn't have any trouble with those stairs. I can see why people say they are bullshit, but I just legged it up the stairs with only one death, and that death was simply the new area factor.