META-Mafia!

[rpgdemon]

'Sup all. You probably all have gotten your PMs at this point, and saw weird things like "+X points" and, HP and stuff.

So, here's the deal:

The winner of the game is the one with the most points. You also win if your faction wins, but you are not the crown champion.

On health: The game is flavored as a mafia game gone wrong, with trolls ruining players fun, until they drop and quit. So, your health represents your willingness to keep playing. Hit zero, and you're out of there. Get banned, and you're out of there.

Getting points: At the end of the game, you get one point per two points of health you have left. You get five points for having the most money of all the players when the game ends. Money is still yours when you die. You get bonus points for completing your objectives.

Now that that's out of the way...


Too many people are complaining about trolls and jerks, and leaving the mafia game! It's time to get out there and ban them, by democratic method! Ban the trolls, or kill them out of the game with in-game powers, just get rid of them!

Town wins when no scum remain.
Scum wins when no town remain.
Other people win when they win. You know. *WONK.*

You all start with 10 health, and 5 dollars.


BahamutFlare - Cow_Macaw_Macow Self-Alligned: 10 HP $0 Banned day 1

Nikose: 13 HP, $8

Aldurin - "Yomama - Yo Yo Ma" Troll-Leech: 12 HP, $5 Banned day 2

Dracorion - Forteh Lullabyez Town Bulletproof: 0 HP, $3 Night-quit night 3

Fenris - "DemonDaMan" Troll-Don: 0 HP, $5 Night-quit night 2.

Inbred Chocobo: 10 HP, $26 Banned, day 4

Ryanderman - PuGLyfe Town-Doctor, Mason: 0 HP, $10 Night-quit night 1.

Hawk: 4 HP, $13

Gregness - Broseidan Town Daykiller: 10 HP, $5 Banned, day 3

Geminex - VeggieGreenz: 0 HP, $0 Night-quit night 3

Lullabyez ?????: 0 HP, $5 Night-quit night 2

[BahamutFlare]

Vote: Nikose

It's obviously meta that he is scum or however this works.

[Nikose Tyris]

omg, li3k why would you even try nub.

VOTE: B4H4MUTFL4R3

Can't touch this

[Geminex]

Hello and Welcome to Meta Mafia, where everything's made up and the points don't matter!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Can we get a list of who's actually in this? I have already forgotten and I don't feel like having to keep re-opening the signup thread.

[Geminex]

For our first game, we've got scenes from a hat! This is a game for everyone, I've got a hat here, we've had our audience put in suggestions, and our contestants are gonna act them out for you.

And our first suggestion is...
People who aren't scum!

[Nikose Tyris]

00h! M3!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok, interesting first couple of responses. Gem seems to think he's playing a different game(show) and Nikose is talking in leet speek. Not sure if Gems is part of his role or not, Niks probably is, but no idea what role it might actually be.

[rpgdemon]

List of Players:

BahamutFlare: 10 HP, $5

Nikose: 10 HP, $5

Aldurin: 10 HP, $5

Dracorion: 10 HP, $5

Fenris: 10 HP, $5

Inbred Chocobo: 10 HP, $5

Ryanderman: 10 HP, $5

Hawk: 10 HP, $5

Gregness: 10 HP, $5

Geminex: 10 HP, $5

Lullabyez: 10 HP, $5

[Geminex]

Ok, interesting first couple of responses. Gem seems to think he's playing a different game(show) and Nikose is talking in leet speek. Not sure if Gems is part of his role or not, Niks probably is, but no idea what role it might actually be.

One thousand points for Hawk's cunning analysis!

Nikose' impression of a moron gets one thousand votes!


(Vote: Nikose)

Also, no, not a role. I just felt like pointing out that, I think, a lot of players will forego points for simple faction play and decided to run with the whose line reference. Because whose line is pretty awesome.

I'd talk about how I prefer the US version, but that would probably get me lynched.

[Aldurin]

I'd talk about how I prefer the US version, but that would probably get me lynched.

Don't worry, we already think you're a commie spy, so trying to act more American won't change much.

[Dracorion]

List of Players:

BahamutFlare: 10 HP, $5

Nikose: 10 HP, $5

Aldurin: 10 HP, $5

Dracorion: 10 HP, $5

Fenris: 10 HP, $5

Inbred Chocobo: 10 HP, $5

Ryanderman: 10 HP, $5

Hawk: 10 HP, $5

Gregness: 10 HP, $5

Geminex: 10 HP, $5

Lullabyez: 10 HP, $5

... Who the hell is Lullabyez?

Super secret player?

[Dracorion]

While I'm asking questions, how do we earn money?

[Inbred Chocobo]

While I'm asking questions, how do we earn money?

I've been wondering that myself actually. I wonder if its like a vote thing, where you have to type

Give 5 dollars to: Person

I think everyone should try to give me 5 dollars. Just to see if that works.

However besides that, we have HP as well. How the hell do we lose or gain that? Does Lynching just do 10 damage, or kills the person outright? Can we just punch people to do damage?

Punch: Nikose

Does that do anything? I'm curious (sorry Nikose, you were the first name to come to mind when I considered punching).

[rpgdemon]

You can give your money to other players, in exchange for goods and/or services. Bribes, et cetera. Whenever you are involved in the lynch of a mafiate (IE: You are voting for them, when the day is over, and they get killed), you will get $3, as well. Things that I should have said in the first post!

[Geminex]

Wait, so we can, theoretically, buy each other's votes?
Just like real life elections!

[Geminex]

Also, since mafiates will likely not vote for mafiates, the people we should be lynching in the end game should be the poorest ones!

That political commentary just gets more cutting edge!

Also, how many votes to lynch?

[Nikose Tyris]

Well, there are 10 (11?) players... so I guess 6 to lynch.

[rpgdemon]

6 to lynch, yeah.

Also, when you do vote, preface it with ## to make my life easier.

Same thing goes with money transfers, but with $$ instead.

[Geminex]

So, how does bribery work? If I were to, say, promise Drac a dollar in return for voting against Nikose, would you enforce this in any way? Like, if drac agrees, would you make him vote for nik, or would you make me pay? Or is it a trust-based system?

[Nikose Tyris]

Eh. I'm Mason'd with Ryanderman anyway, both town, so lynching me just confirms him, alt. you're hurting town. Your call, Gem.

[Geminex]

Pure example, dude, we are still in the joke-voting/rules-establishing phase.

If anything I'm trying to figure out how to screw Drac out of a vote.

[Nikose Tyris]

I figured with 10 (11?) people, let's not do that too much, might as well make sure my stance is covered.

[BahamutFlare]

I honestly want to just give someone all my money randomly. With money, I guess it's mostly done during the day and we can all see it? Seems weird to just outright bribe someone in public.

Money especially being useless makes me just want to give it all away. Because let's face it, it's a trust based system. Just because we take money, doesn't mean we have to do what we were told. We would just be thieves. And swindlers. That person may dislike us, but who cares if they are dying. Or not dying. Idk. Money is useless and as soon as I figure out who I want to give it to, I am.

Buy: First Aid kits Give self more health

I wish I could do this.

[rpgdemon]

Since y'all seem to want binding deals, deals will be binding. In order to keep people from being entrapped, if you expect a player to vote or whatever when they accept your money, they will have to $$Accept money from X, which will bind them into the deal that they made. Accepter beware!

[Inbred Chocobo]

I honestly want to just give someone all my money randomly. With money, I guess it's mostly done during the day and we can all see it? Seems weird to just outright bribe someone in public.

Money especially being useless makes me just want to give it all away. Because let's face it, it's a trust based system. Just because we take money, doesn't mean we have to do what we were told. We would just be thieves. And swindlers. That person may dislike us, but who cares if they are dying. Or not dying. Idk. Money is useless and as soon as I figure out who I want to give it to, I am.

I wish I could do this.

From the first post

The winner of the game is the one with the most points. You also win if your faction wins, but you are not the crown champion.

On health: The game is flavored as a mafia game gone wrong, with trolls ruining players fun, until they drop and quit. So, your health represents your willingness to keep playing. Hit zero, and you're out of there. Get banned, and you're out of there.

Getting points: At the end of the game, you get one point per two points of health you have left. You get five points for having the most money of all the players when the game ends. Money is still yours when you die. You get bonus points for completing your objectives.

So money appears the be directly related to the amount of points you earn at the end of the game, and whoever has the most points wins. This means that everyone is going to want to collect as much money as they can so they get the highest, which means that if you are willing to sacrifice your chance to getting the point count, and give it to someone else, that is a very strong personal motivator for taking a bribe.

It means that bribes do have weight, as everyone wants to get the most points, and whoever has the highest money total at the end of the game gets the most points.

What is interesting is the HP system, and reading over the first post, when we lynch people, they are just banned rather than actually take any damage. So HP is irrelevant to lynches. So what mechanics interact with HP? You want to preserve it, but how? If someone has a way to hurt people, they have a simple way to make people lose hp so they get less points. Someone has a way to heal other people, now they have a way to bribe people.


Essentially, what we are playing here is two different games. One is the normal mafia, in which town is killing scum. However the second game, which ends when the first one does, is that whoever gets the highest point count wins.

This means that people's goals in this could not always be in line with their faction, as they have their own personal motives as well as those of wanting their faction to win, as they will want points.

I am laying it out here because motives in this game are going to be a lot harder to determine, and people trying to guess without all the information means that no one knows whats going on.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

$$Accept money from BahamutFlare

What? He said he wants to give it away anyway.

Also, since Nik's already claming mason status with Ryanderman I guess the next obvious line of questioning is for Ryanderman to confirm this. Of course, they could both be scum, but at least we can start trying to check.

[Ryanderman]

I am so very tempted to deny having anything to do with Nikose, just because I can, because just for this moment I have the power to decide whether Nikose lives or dies. But that would be stupid. We're masoned.

[BahamutFlare]

Unvote: Nikose

Give all money to Hawk

I get that you can be the big winner by becoming the richest. I'll say that while the idea of that is neat, I'm just going to be perfectly honest and say I have no want for that win.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Wow, I can't believe that actually worked!

[Aldurin]

My vote is up for purchase, just vote for my vote using your money.

[Gregness]

I am so very tempted to deny having anything to do with Nikose, just because I can, because just for this moment I have the power to decide whether Nikose lives or dies. But that would be stupid. We're masoned.

Don't worry, I think we all understand the desire to screw over Nikose.

[Dracorion]

$$Bribe Ryanderman with all my money so he votes for Nikose.

[Ryanderman]

He made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

$$Accept all Dracorion's money.

##Vote: Nikose

[Nikose Tyris]

Meh. Two votes. For all of someone else's money, I'd vote for me too.

[Dracorion]

Worth it.

[Ryanderman]

Meh. Two votes. For all of someone else's money, I'd vote for me too.

That was my logic!

Plus it's fun!

[Fenris]

who the fuck is Lullabyez

[rpgdemon]

Scoreboard:

BahamutFlare: 10 HP, $0
Dracorion: 10 HP, $0
Ryanderman: 10 HP, $10
Hawk: 10 HP, $10

So, that happened.

Votes:

Nikose - 1

Day ends in at least 48 hours.

[BahamutFlare]

I really want to vote for Lullabyez just to get some conversation started and wonder who the heck is it. I wonder if it's some trap player that if we vote for him/her, we get hit with a health penalty.

I get it that we all like to make fun of Nikose and stuff, but I feel that Gem was going a bit too far with trying to get votes on him in the joke phase. Draco is just being unhelpful which the act was kinda funny, but town is now one vote less and a townie has one vote on him, and I'll never get a read on him. Assuming that Nikose and Ryanderman aren't scum. Which I bet the confirmation will come at some point in time.

[Ryanderman]

Gem and Dracorian are the highest on my suspicious list, for their actions against Nikose.

Gem claims joke, and hypothetical example, but it's entirely possible he was trying to subtly push for a Nikose lynch.

Dracorian bribed me to vote for a "confirmed" (not actually confirmed, but close enough for my purposes) townie. I accepted the bribe, because it was funny, in my best interest to take the money, and the chances of Nikose actually being lynched today are very small. It's entirely possible it was just a joke on Dracorian's part, but maybe not.

[Geminex]

Oh come on how was I pushing for anything.

Like, I used Nikose as an example because I was getting in on the "nobody likes Nikose" joke which is firmly grounded in NPF mafia tradition. IC did the same thing when he went "punch nikose" to see if it was possible to hurt him. I don't see you going after IC.

And given that I neither bribed anyone, nor accepted the bribe, I really do not see how this is somehow my fault. Yes, I asked a question that involved such a scenario. In no way, shape or form did I imply that I wanted this to happen. You'll note I didn't restate my vote on Nikose.

I am all for making sure that people are not using their fucking around to hide scum activity. But I did nothing scum-ish. That was Rya and Drac. I did not make them vote, and if you think that my question was calculated to pervasively manipulate them to do my bidding, then you severely overestimate me. I cannot make people do things simply by suggesting them.

Well, maaaaaybe drac, but he is an exception.

[Geminex]

Also I totally like Nikose which is why I was poking fun in the first place. You know that, right Nikose? :o

[Ryanderman]

I'm just looking for something to work with. You mentioned Nikose twice in your early posts, both times talking about voting for him. I don't think it actually means anything, but it might. And there's not a lot else to look at at the moment.

[rpgdemon]

Day ends in 48 hours. (Saturday at 1ish, EST)

[Nikose Tyris]

Truth be told I'm actually really sensitive right now due to some personal issues so every comment stings but I know we cool, Gem.

Also my vote stays where it is because it keeps me one step closer from death. ._.

[rpgdemon]

I missed a vote, so:

Votes:
BahamutFlare: 1 (Nikose)
Nikose: 1 (Ryanderman)

[BahamutFlare]

Vote: Dracorion

As a temporary placeholder. I'm packing for the weekend and will be back Sunday morning/afternoon. I leave tomorrow afternoon EST, so my final vote for D1 will be then probably.

[Nikose Tyris]

Okay so whoever swoops in next and breaks the tie is obviously a mafiate if BahamutFlare isn't am I playing thi s game right now

[BahamutFlare]

Well, no new info has been released. Dracorion just pulling that stunt and lurking makes me feel a little better about my vote.

And Nikose, quit trying to get everyone scared of voting! If no one votes, then scum can hammer you in.

[Ryanderman]

At this point, anyone besides me who votes for Nikose is scum. Vote for him today, you will get lynched tomorrow.

Someone else should vote for Dracorion. He's the best lead we've got right now. I would vote for him if I could, but I can't, so I'll have to suffice with taking all his money.

[Dracorion]

It's because you guys are kinda boring, frankly.

I mean, there's not much to do now that I've given away my money!

I guess I could vote for Nikose on the suspicion that this declaration:

Okay so whoever swoops in next and breaks the tie is obviously a mafiate if BahamutFlare isn't am I playing thi s game right now

Seems kinda scummy.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Well shit, I don't know either.

There is always Fenris. Because Fenris

Then again there is always Nikose. Because Nikose.

And last few times I have played with Bahamutflare he ended up being scum and no one called him on it, of course that is past games so is that true here?

Truthfully Dracorion's idiotic posting reads more as a person being stupid and silly rather than any true scum moves.

You know, I found it a little odd both Ryanderman and Hawk were so eager to jump on the money train too. Particularly Ryanderman, because now he can get away with voting for an innocent, using an excuse that he was bound to do it by contract. Does that strike anyone else as odd? Because that certainly seems like a wonderful excuse.

Vote: Ryanderman

[Ryanderman]

The "money train" is part of achieving an individual victory. Which I'm given to understand is part of this game. That's why I took Dracoion's money. It helped me, and didn't really hurt Nikose. At least, that was my theory.

If I were allowed to unvote Nikose at this point, I would. Because I don't want to kill off the only player I can communicate with outside the game. Even if I were scum, I'd want to keep the only townie I can exert any influence over alive for at least a couple days. It makes no sense to vote for me.

[Inbred Chocobo]

The reasoning behind it was that both taking the money pushes you closer to that particular goal, but also gives you an excuse for your voting reasoning, so your vote doesn't really matter and therefore you get to slide day one without anything on you.

However, you are voting for Nikose, who both you and him claim are Masons. If that is true, then you took this because you wanted the money. If the claim is false, and you are both scum, then this was a needless risk as well. (I had actually forgotten you both claimed masons in that post. Whoops).

Hmmmm, yeah it would seem a bit weird to gamble like that this early actually, the possibility is there, but its a bit far-fetched. Trying to generate some conversation pieces here so, because honestly the best we got right now is Dracorion and I am not feeling it there.

Unvote: ryanderman

So for now I am just going to sit and read over the thread some more, maybe I will catch something I didn't.

[Nikose Tyris]

Actually yeah, just because I don't need it:

$$Give 4 dollars to Ryanderman

[Dracorion]

Oh come on, now you're just hopping on the bandwagon.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok, there is a really easy way for us to sort some of this out;

Expose Nikoses character sheet

Yes, I am using my 1 and only power in this game on one of our supposed masons. If it turns out Nik is a mason with Ryander we at least get 2 confirmed townies (3, including me) and can start looking elswhere. If Drac continues to pay for Ryanders vote on Nik then I would advocate a lynch on him (even if he's not scum, he's still harming the team). Of course if Nik flips town he'll probably drop the vote anyway, so we get no real confirmation of whether Drac is town or scum, but the way I see it I can either fire randomly and try and hit scum or I can confirm 3 townies and establish a voting block of sorts.

Of course, if Nik is scum then so is Ryander, so that works too.

[rpgdemon]

Nikose Tyris:
1336HAX: You are an internet dweller who just doesn't -quite- get it. You keep trying to fit in with the haxxors, but it always goes wrong. Likewise, in this game, you keep trying to be a big know-it-all showoff by hacking the server and changing HP values, but keep messing up. On the plus side, you're masoned with a buddy PuGLyfe.
Secret: Will deal 3 damage to random target at nights.
Objective: Wants PuGLyfe alive. +3 points
Faction: Town
Mason: Ryanderman

[Dracorion]

Wait, wait, I can take back the money I paid Ryander?

[rpgdemon]

Votes:
BahamutFlare: 1 (Nikose)
Nikose: 1 (Ryanderman)
Dracorion: 1 (Bahamutflare)


Day ends in 30 minutes

[Geminex]

wait 30 minutes fuck

Well, I honestly have no idea what is going on. We have 3 confirmed townies out of 11, which is great, but I haven't really gotten a great read on anyone, and I kind of wanna prevent any ties right now. I'd much rather push for a lynch on someone who hasn't been really active so far, but we only have 30 minutes and I dunno if anyone is gonna be posting.

So, who to go for. Nikose is confirmed right now.

Our options are Flare or Drac. Flare is a reasonably strong player and his performance so far seems reasonable. He seemed a bit eager to go after me to begin with, though. Hmm.

Drac, on the other hand, does seem to be fucking around more. De dum.

I'm gonna
##Vote: Dracorion

Because frankly I don't feel like he has any hugely important role at the moment and he is messing around. If he does turn out to be town, he probably would not have been hugely productive regardless, if he is scum then good for me, I just killed some scum.

This is really not the kind of lead I would have liked to use, but since we have 30 minutes left and I don't like ties, this is the best we can do.

[Dracorion]

Ah shit, thirty fucking minutes.

##Vote: BahamutFlare

Because he seems to appear to be indecisive while still voting. Like "um... I dunno about this guy, but now I'm going to throw up a placeholder vote on him anyway and now I'm going to keep it there for realz".

It might be a mafiate trying to appear passive while still getting someone killed, is what I'm thinking.

Not much to go on, but I'd mostly rather not die, even if it means I have to start taking the game seriously.

[Geminex]

Fuck. You just had to make it another tie.

##Unvote: Dracorion
##Vote: BahamutFlare

[rpgdemon]

DAY 1 IS OVER

Post to follow.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Damn, I had really hoped my power would have gotten more conversation goin, but it seems not. And since Drac still hasn't even tried to un-bribe his vote on a now confirmed townie

## Vote: Dracorion

Not that it makes much difference now I suppose.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ah balls.

[rpgdemon]

"FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! AND YOUR MOTHER, TOO. YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU GUYS ALL FUCKING SUCK. THIS IS THE WORST PLAYED GAME OF MAFIA ANYONE HAS EVERY SEEN, AND YOU SHOULD ALL FEEL BAD FOR HAVING PARTICIPATED!"

And with that post, Cow_Macaw_Macow, self-aligned was banned.

Cow_Macaw_Macow: You're an obnoxious pompous jerk. You make everyone's life miserable, and eventually they're just going to quit the game. And you know what? You're okay with that. They're jerks too.
Secret: Everyone who votes with you loses 2 health.
Objective: Be the last man standing.
Faction: Self

Night 1 has begun. Night ends in 48 hours, or whenever I get all the night roles in.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, good luck town.

[rpgdemon]

When you wake up the next day, you see a post in the forum, from PuGLyfe, telling you that he has decided to stop playing the game, because of too much negativity. He was PMed about how much he was sucking at healing the game, and was just sick of it, and wanted to quit. He sent in his last heal, and left.

Ryanderman PuGLyfe: Town Doctor, Mason has been mafia-troll'd into quitting the game. Total cash: 5$.


Additionally, some wonkiness has happened with the main post, and more health values have been changed:

Dracorion has lost 5 HP. Total: 5 HP left.
Fenris has lost 5 HP. Total: 5 HP left.
Aldurin has been healed, and is at 12 HP.
Nikose_Tyris has been healed, and is at 13 HP.

Night is over, day 2 begins!

[Geminex]

Well. I am sure glad last night went the way it did. Props to Dracorion for not just letting me lynch him, though obviously this in no way confirms that he is, in fact, town.

That having been said, allow me to shed some light on the events of this night!
Starting with a roleclaim.

I am none other than VeggieGreenz, Faction: Town.
I am a troll in my own way, but rather than outright trolling players, I try to clean up the game by trolling the trolls. I send people hurtful messages and cause 5 damage a night to them. Last night I hit Fenris, dropping him to 5 HP. I believe I told him he smelled like a butt that somebody did a poop on.

How is this useful? Because I have an objective as well! That objective is to kill the troll who is stealing health. That's not in itself useful, except for the fact that I know there is a health-stealing troll. He damages players and then gains health.

And that troll is Aldurin.

Y'see, as I see it, we have three damaging roles and one healing role. I was one of those. Another is unaccounted for, and hit Dracorion in the night. They are probably self-aligned. A third is Aldurin. I know this because, other than Nikose, his is the only health that increased in the night. Nikose, as we know, is confirmed town, so I hardly think we can accuse him of being the life-stealer. He was, however, masoned with the town doctor, who, I presume, can heal by 5 health (since both of the other damaging roles deal 5 damage).

What happened, as I see it, is that scum saw two confirmed townies, and nightkilled one, while life-stealing the other. The same night Ryanderman died, he healed Nikose by 5 HP. If you take those 5 HP, and subtract the two HP that Aldurin gained, things make sense.

I assume that the other damage-dealer is unaligned, because, if he were scum, I think he'd also have hit Nikose.

Ooh, and judging from the fact that Ryanderman has been "trolled to death" via PMs (like I do it!), I think we can take away that Scum deals damage, rather than outright killing. Though I dunno if they limit themselves to 10 damage, or if they can deal more.

In any case, there you have a little speculation, a little fact, and one confirmed troll.

I don't wanna discourage discussion, we should talk about things, but this day needs to end with Aldurin getting banned.

##Vote: Aldurin

Thank you and goodnight.

[Nikose Tyris]

See my start of game feelings were BahamutFlare, Geminex and Aldurin.

And BF was scum.

And Geminex is now outing Aldurin. This... this concerns me.

However that is a discussion for tomorrow!

##VOTE: ALDURIN

[Geminex]

And Geminex is now outing Aldurin. This... this concerns me.
Yes, it must suck to find out that you are falliable! : o

Also we only have 5 votes to lynch, so if we still wanna have discussion, we should be careful. Don't pile on Aldurin unless you wanna end the day.

[Nikose Tyris]

I admit to being fallible. I'm often wrong!

However, I'd like to explore the fact that your role names another troll as an objective kill, not necessarily that he's scum; and while you present a fantastic case, what with your roleclaim and your breakdown of the night actions-

no you know what he stole two of the health that was meant for me, he can suck a rock, I'm not going to even try and make a case for him.

[Geminex]

Trolls are our mafia faction, though. I only called myself troll because I hurt people with my night powers, a bit of a misnomer there.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Hmmmm, I can't really see any holes in Geminex's argument. I mean, if he is bold face lying what does he have to gain, we then just lynch Gem tomorrow and that doesn't help him. The only other way I see that is that Gem has a special victory condition of being lynched on the third day or something, and that this is an elaborate setup, but even then that is a huge leap of logic to just make up on the spots. So I am inclined to believe him here.

##VOTE: ALDURIN

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Wow, guess I dodged a bullet there, nearly voting for Drac and losing hp because of BF. But yeah, it was inevitable we were going to lose one of our masons last night, though I actually thought it would be Nik since his power at least was confirmed. Guess scum aren't so worried about hp damage as they are unknowns.

On Gems claim, it sounds pretty reasonable. At first I was trying to find a flaw in the logic but the maths is pretty sound, since we have 2 players who were both healed 2 and 3 points respectively, which are slightly unnusual since all other damage done so far is 5. Not saying I fully buy it yet, since there may be some other unkown going on that none of us are aware of, but since Nik is already voting for Al I will probably back him on the lynch later on.

I will also add more info to the pile regarding my own role, because I too have/had a secret objective which is going to make things a little more awkward; my secret objective is/was to kill Nikose. Because apparantly I hate trolls, specifically 1336hax. So I'm a townie who wants another townie dead. Obviously that's not going to happen, since we now know he's on our side, but it does mean that anyone with secret kill objectives should tread carefully, since it seems the people you might be after could be on the same side.

I have obviously foregone my ability to earn more points by killing Nik since he claimed mason early on and I had the power to confirm it, which made it a really awkward objective to go for anyway. I was pretty sure he was my target, since early on he kept talking in leet speak, which fit his character name, but there was still the off chance he was scum. Turned out he wasn't and I had just exposed my kill target as a town.

So yeah... not sure what rpg was going for there but it obviously didn't work out so well. I guess it's part of th "meta" that we're playing 2 games, one where we play mafia and help our team, the other where we stab each other in the back for points, so we should watch out for that.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Sorry, meant to say hackers, not trolls, in regards to Nikose there. Nik isn't a troll, since they're the mafia.

[Aldurin]

Wha . . . bold move, but dumb. At least now I know who I affected last night.

##Vote: Geminex

Here's my role:
Sw4gg8alls: You think you've got the moves and the style, and like to hijack trolled discussions with witty mockeries of their trolling to take their glory and save the day! And to make things worse you're an admin.
Secret: You steal a random person's power each night but they'll know it was you.
Objective: Outlive the scum.
Faction: Town

I guess how it works is that I am able to access a random PM and utilize it for myself. Last night I was told that I found a PM from a troll that already harmed the recipient, but that I did a counter-reply to the troll quoting his PM in order to take the morale he stole. I wasn't told the name of either person, so all I know is that there is a health stealer and either Nikose, Dracorion or Fenris is the victim.

Given how Gem immediately tried to pin the stealer role on me while claiming to be a troll that helps town, either him or one of his scum buddies (but probably him) is the health stealer. Now they're capitalizing on my gained health to try to run an easy town lynch, which could be easily stomped now that Nikose seems to have voted for me since he wants someone to be butthurt at for only getting 3 HP, and Inbred Chocobo and Hawk seem to be for it (possible scum or just town).

The only other possibility is that Gem is telling the truth too and I ganked the health from someone else entirely, but this is a hard push from him which makes it suspicious.

[Nikose Tyris]

And that's what I needed from Aldurin. I only have the capacity to deal 3 points of damage. My power activated randomly (Seriously, no control at all), so I could have been the one who hit Drac or Fenris; but someone else would have hit/drained them too. As I understood it, Ryanderman could only heal for 3 points as well.

Geminex has a solid understanding of the 2 HP drain; I believe that Geminex is the more likely to be scum individual out of our options, and went after Fenris, because Fenris.

##Unvote: Aldurin

##Vote: Geminex

[Geminex]

Allright, I only have a moment here. Earl, your counterclaim is unlikely as hell.
Like, "I borrowed someone else's power!", I could buy. But "I didn't borrow their power, I just stole their benefits!", that's rather complicated. The mechanics are already convoluted enough, without weird-ass roles.

And even if you were innocent, what the hell is this:
Given how Gem immediately tried to pin the stealer role on me while claiming to be a troll that helps town, either him or one of his scum buddies (but probably him) is the health stealer. Now they're capitalizing on my gained health to try to run an easy town lynch, which could be easily stomped now that Nikose seems to have voted for me since he wants someone to be butthurt at for only getting 3 HP, and Inbred Chocobo and Hawk seem to be for it (possible scum or just town).
If you were innocent, why go on the offensive like this? If I was scum, I'd have absolutely nothing to gain by outing myself like this. Even given your claimed powers, you wouldn't be such a high-value target that a scum member would have to sacrifice themselves to kill you. And hell, even if you were innocent, couldn't I be innocent too? "I'm a vig" is way less unlikely a claim that "I steal random powers but only not really I just get the benefits if there are any". Why does my knowing that a life-stealer exists mean anything in regards to my own guilt?

Geminex has a solid understanding of the 2 HP drain; I believe that Geminex is the more likely to be scum individual out of our options, and went after Fenris, because Fenris.

Qua? My only "understanding" stems from the fact that Earl has gained 2 HP.
If your power is activated randomly, how do you know it activated at all? And where do the other two points of damage come from? Seriously, how does anything earl said change your mind?

[Geminex]

Wait fuck, I misread your post. Ignore the last few questions I asked.
Fine, so whoever drained must've hit someone else. How does that invalidate teh fact that it was earl who gained life? Unless you really buy that he's capable of borrowing powers in a way that's basically only useful in a draining role, I don't see, again, how that fact changes anything.

[Nikose Tyris]

Wizard Magic, pretty much. I don't think Aldurin is smart enough to play mafia well, and his counterclaim was too identical to our own PM writeups. And the fact you've switched tracks to calling him Earl doesn't sit too hot with me either now.

[Geminex]

What's the name got to do with anything? He prefers to be called Aldurin, but I know him as Earl, and that's what I switch to when I'm agitated. Like when you vote for me for absolutely no reason. Like, this is a game of he-said-she-said, and one of us is lying. I get that. What I don't get is the reason for the switch, on your side.

[Geminex]

Also, I didn't realize we were allowed to post role PMs. Here is mine

VeggieGreenz: You're going to keep the game fun, but in your own special way! You'll send PMs to people who you think are being mean, that -might- make them want to just quit the game instead...
Secret: Can deal 5 damage secretly each night.
Objective: Find and kill that scoundrel who's trolling, and stealing people's health at night. +3 points
Faction: Town


Though, looking back, the fact that RPG already posted a role PM when Hawk revealed Nikose means that knowing what a role PM looks like, doesn't really mean anything.

And hey, give Earl some credit. Like, I want to get him lynched, but he has really made improvements and is in of himself pretty cool now.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I don't know, I am thinking Aldurin is in the wrong here.

I mean his role "Sw4gg8alls: You think you've got the moves and the style, and like to hijack trolled discussions with witty mockeries of their trolling to take their glory and save the day! And to make things worse you're an admin." is a bit of an oddity. So he gets to take the glory of the troll discussion? I mean to me that either implies its really only good for one or two roles, or their are a lot of roles out there that involve taking one thing from another player, and all his role does is steal benefits. So how many roles are out there with benefits?

The fact that its a random pm as well, does that mean his random can hit a player with nothing one day, or can it really hit anyone? All of this asks far too many questions for a odd role. I don't think this role is actually what Aldurin was given.

And now we have Nikose who says that he deals 3 damage at random. So what happens if Aldurin's power hits him? Does his random power to randomly gain the ability of another player who's power activates on a random person affected in any way?

No, this doesn't add up correctly. 2 life was definitely lost, and 2 life was gained. I think Gem is right on that one, and so we have our target.

However, there is another option besides lynching Aldurin that gives us further evidence. I will explain with some examples here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Example 1. Gem is right and Aldurin is wrong.

Gem's role states that he knows the lifestealer is scum, so that paints Aldurin as scum, therefore we get him.

Example 2. Gem is wrong and Aldurin is right.

Gem's knowledge had to come from somewhere, and that scenario is that he is most likely the scum with the life stealing abilities. However him piping up to get Aldurin is very odd since this outs himself the next night.

Example 3. Gem is right and Aldurin is right

Gems knowledge comes from his role, and Aldurin is also not lying about his ability. I could see this possibly being the case in that the gm would want a failsafe so that the person that got Gem's role would immediately go after the wrong target day 2, else it makes a very easy out for scum.

Example 4. They are both wrong

I have no idea how this scenario would even exist.


So what this means is that there is a chance that both Geminex and Aldurin are innocent, and that lynching Aldurin does not automatically assume that Geminex is scum. However, the same is true, lynching Geminex doesn't automatically assume that Aldurin is scum either.

So what do we do? We wait a night. If Aldurin is telling the truth, his random ability will most likely hit someone else. If it does, that means it won't be him that gains the life, it will be someone else. If that happens, then we have confirmed scenario 3, and now have a new target thanks to Gem.

If Aldurin is lying, then he will gain life again next turn, and if that is the case then we are certain he is scum and we just lynch him.

There is a chance that he is telling the truth, and his random ability will hit the same target tonight, however I believe that is marginal at best, and with those odds I am willing to bet if he gains life again this night, he is scum and we can easily lynch him.


However, considering both arguments, I am just for lynching Aldurin now, but for those on the fence, we can wait to see what happens tonight if you people prefer. I just don't like his claim at all.

[Dracorion]

Would someone like to figure out the odds that both Nikose and Aldurin, whose powers they both claim hit random people, would both end up hitting me during the night?

EDIT: Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootthhhh.

[Geminex]

Would someone like to figure out the odds that both Nikose and Aldurin, whose powers they both claim hit random people, would both end up hitting me during the night?

EDIT: Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootthhhh.

That is what we call "Karma".

[Geminex]

Also I very much doubt Earl was random, so it was really just Nikose hitting you.

[Dracorion]

Hm, Earl's power is kind of weird. "Steal a random person's power each night" seems to say that he can at least target the power, but the way he claims it worked is he just got the benefits of a random person's power.

But that little oddity aside, Earl's objective also rings some alarm bells. I mean, "Outlive the scum"? He gets extra points just for winning the game?

[Dracorion]

So yeah I'm leaning more toward Earl right now.

[Geminex]

Genuinely good points. I might just expand on those real quick.

Hm, Earl's power is kind of weird. "Steal a random person's power each night" seems to say that he can at least target the power, but the way he claims it worked is he just got the benefits of a random person's power.

Exactly. He cannot, allegedly, target the power. He just gains whatever benefits the power has. And the only time I can think of that this power would be useful, is if it's a vampire-type power you're copying. Like, let's go through all the important mafia roles. Doctor? Heals for 3 HP on a target. You wouldn't get any benefits there, since you can't choose your target, and doctors can't target themselves anyway. Detective? You can't pick whom to hit, and, as far as Earl told us, you don't even know who you targeted. You get minimal information. So that's useless. Vig? Again, you can't choose who you wanna target, and you'd hardly want to hurt yourself. Useless.

So if you buy earl's story, you're not only believing that RPG would put that kind of role into the game, but also that, in the first night, Earl would ~~~raaaandomly~~~ have copied the only power that was actually useful in conjunction with this power? Bullshit. I could buy a role-stealing role, maaaaaybe, though even then as self-aligned, more than anything, since that'd be one hell of a strong role for either town or mafia (trolls, in our case) to have. But something like this, and still town-aligned? Hell naw, he's lying.


But that little oddity aside, Earl's objective also rings some alarm bells. I mean, "Outlive the scum"? He gets extra points just for winning the game?
Also a very good point that I did not even notice. That kind of objective does seem weird. I dunno if everyone has objectives, but the thing in the objective section is, as far as we have seen, something that gives you bonus points for completing extra goals, not just your standard goal.

I could buy it just being vanilla, for people with no extra objective, but giving some people extra objectives and some not seems imbalanced. Everyone needs to have the same opportunity to win. Also, if it is vanilla, I assume other people would have it.

Does anyone else have the objective of "just survive", with no point bonus?

Also, in case anyone question why I'm so passionate about this right now, I've already got two votes against me, and I'm heading for bed soon, and I'd hate to wake up to think I've been lynched over an obvious mafiate.

[Dracorion]

Well, Gem, an argument could be made against you on the basis that your power seems kind of powerful for a townie, when it's comed to Nykose. Fortunately for you, this might be balanced out by the fact that Nyk was masoned.

Another thing that could be argued is that you ignored the question when Nyk called you out on picking Fenris for your night target. You never really mentioned what your reasoning was for that move.

[Geminex]

Well, Gem, an argument could be made against you on the basis that your power seems kind of powerful for a townie, when it's comed to Nykose. Fortunately for you, this might be balanced out by the fact that Nyk was masoned.

Well, I'm a vig. That's a traditional role. And I'm, in fact, weaker than a vig, because I can't outright kill. If I wanna murder someone, I have to go at them for 2 consecutive days. Unless you're saying that the vig role is overpowred, I dun see what you're getting at. Sure, I'm way stronger than Nikose, but a doctor is stronger than a vanilla townie too. Different roles have different strengths. I just got a strong one.

Another thing that could be argued is that you ignored the question when Nyk called you out on picking Fenris for your night target. You never really mentioned what your reasoning was for that move.
Nikose summed it up quite well, actually. Fenris because Fenris. I stated when voting that I didn't really know who I wanted dead, and that was the truth. We had quite a few confirmed townies so far, and I wasn't getting any major reads on any non-confirmed players. You were a candidate, but you'd promised to be more active, and I thought I'd just wait and see whether you'd be helpful.

Ultimately, because I could not draw any leads based on activity, I decided to go for the inactive people, because
a) I think scum hides a lot, and the inactives don't get suspected enough
and
b) because, if they are town, getting damaged for half their HP might get them to participate
c) because if they were town and still not participating, it wouldn't be a huge loss.

Gregness had at least posted something, so my options were the mysterious Lullabyez and Fenris. I had a feeling Lullabyez might be a bomb or something, so I went after Fen.

Not a great decision, but my objective was really just to do something marginally useful while I waited to see who gained health during the night.

[Dracorion]

I meant to say "compared to Nykose" there, my bad.

[Nikose Tyris]

Where is the y in my name coming from.

[Dracorion]

Black magic.

[Geminex]

South American Voodoo.

In any case, Ima head off, 's late. I hope I made my case well enough to not get my ass lynched and I would encourage everyone to vote for the obvious Troll with the ridiculous roleclaim. That is Aldurin.

[Dracorion]

The trolls hacked my account, Nik. It's their fault!

[Geminex]

Well, since conversation on this topic has seemed to have died down, and I've already roleclaimed, I might as well ask. What do you guys think I should do with my night action? I'm honestly thinking of just killing Fenris off if he doesn't say anything today. Or flip a coin, heads I hit Fenris, tails I hit Gregenss. I'll probably get trolled to death tonight, so I think this'll be my last action.

Also, Drac and Hawk, are you actually gonna vote for Aldurin come the end of the day or do you still have actual doubts?

I'd ask what actual concrete doubts Nikose has, but, apparently, being confirmed as town is a licence to stop playing well and just fuck around.

[Dracorion]

I'm waiting for Earl to say something.

[Nikose Tyris]

Nah I gave pretty much everything I had. I figure between the two of you, you're more likely to be capable of bullshiting because you're genuinely good. Aldurin sucks. That's...

...That's kind of his thing. He's just bad at things. I don't think he is smart enough to have played as smart as you're positing.

[Aldurin]

Exactly. He cannot, allegedly, target the power. He just gains whatever benefits the power has. And the only time I can think of that this power would be useful, is if it's a vampire-type power you're copying. Like, let's go through all the important mafia roles. Doctor? Heals for 3 HP on a target. You wouldn't get any benefits there, since you can't choose your target, and doctors can't target themselves anyway. Detective? You can't pick whom to hit, and, as far as Earl told us, you don't even know who you targeted. You get minimal information. So that's useless. Vig? Again, you can't choose who you wanna target, and you'd hardly want to hurt yourself. Useless.

So if you buy earl's story, you're not only believing that RPG would put that kind of role into the game, but also that, in the first night, Earl would ~~~raaaandomly~~~ have copied the only power that was actually useful in conjunction with this power? Bullshit. I could buy a role-stealing role, maaaaaybe, though even then as self-aligned, more than anything, since that'd be one hell of a strong role for either town or mafia (trolls, in our case) to have. But something like this, and still town-aligned? Hell naw, he's lying.


Also a very good point that I did not even notice. That kind of objective does seem weird. I dunno if everyone has objectives, but the thing in the objective section is, as far as we have seen, something that gives you bonus points for completing extra goals, not just your standard goal.

I could buy it just being vanilla, for people with no extra objective, but giving some people extra objectives and some not seems imbalanced. Everyone needs to have the same opportunity to win. Also, if it is vanilla, I assume other people would have it.

Does anyone else have the objective of "just survive", with no point bonus?

Also, in case anyone question why I'm so passionate about this right now, I've already got two votes against me, and I'm heading for bed soon, and I'd hate to wake up to think I've been lynched over an obvious mafiate.

I assume I would get stuff like the Detective's results or force the Doctor's healing to target me or something along those lines, so your listing of incompatible examples doesn't actually work that strongly.

As for the survival objective, I guess how it works is that the winning faction gets points for everyone in that faction both alive and dead, but I get bonus points for actually surviving to winning.

Well, I'm a vig. That's a traditional role. And I'm, in fact, weaker than a vig, because I can't outright kill. If I wanna murder someone, I have to go at them for 2 consecutive days. Unless you're saying that the vig role is overpowred, I dun see what you're getting at. Sure, I'm way stronger than Nikose, but a doctor is stronger than a vanilla townie too. Different roles have different strengths. I just got a strong one.


Nikose summed it up quite well, actually. Fenris because Fenris. I stated when voting that I didn't really know who I wanted dead, and that was the truth. We had quite a few confirmed townies so far, and I wasn't getting any major reads on any non-confirmed players. You were a candidate, but you'd promised to be more active, and I thought I'd just wait and see whether you'd be helpful.

Ultimately, because I could not draw any leads based on activity, I decided to go for the inactive people, because
a) I think scum hides a lot, and the inactives don't get suspected enough
and
b) because, if they are town, getting damaged for half their HP might get them to participate
c) because if they were town and still not participating, it wouldn't be a huge loss.

Gregness had at least posted something, so my options were the mysterious Lullabyez and Fenris. I had a feeling Lullabyez might be a bomb or something, so I went after Fen.

Not a great decision, but my objective was really just to do something marginally useful while I waited to see who gained health during the night.

Targeting Fenris because of Fenris is a pretty awful metagame reason that drove me to lose it for town the last game, and seems too simple for someone like you to go for if you're really a vig. The inactivity angle was kinda borked when Nikose basically declared D1 that the first person to vote and break the tie was scum, but you could at least put more thought into it and go for someone who gives vibes or default on Drac for old times sake (which if you're gonna rely on weak reasoning I would really have thought you'd have targeted Dracorion). But that specific argument itself is weak so I mainly think that you're.

Basically in the scenario where Fenris is town and you're not (I'm not certain on the former but for the sake of this scenario), then targeting Fenris on the basis of that awful metagame reasoning would be the best way for you to pass as a vig without having a harder time answering the question of why you targeted who.

Your weak argument against my role and the horrible reasoning for your target make me pretty much certain that you're scum now.

[Geminex]

Oh come on, really? "Heeey, my role MIGHT work this way, even though it didn't work this way in teh past and I have no indicator that it would work this way!". And you call my reasoning weak? You're pulling stuff out of your ass because you failed to put thought into your original roleclaim. This game is wonky, but I can't imagine RPG putting that arbitrary a role into the game.

And... how is my reasoning stupid again? I targeted Fenris based on inactivity. Is it a bad idea to target based on inactivity? You say I should have hit someone that gave of vibes. Well, nobody did. Tehre was no conclusive argument against anyone. So I hit an unkown. And Fenris was unknown by choice. Nikose going "ANYOEN WHO VOTES NOW IS SCUM" is not law. Fenris had plenty of time to post before Nikose said anything, he could have made an agrument even after Nikose told everyone to shut up, and, ultimately, he could have ignored Nikose on basis of the fact that it's, well, Nikose and not everyone takes him seriously.

I targeted Fenris based on inactivity. End of story. How the fuck is it metagame-y to target an unknown over several positive knowns? And how is the fact that I claim to have targeted Fenris a scumtell?

And in regards to your objective, every other role PM that's been posted so far had a point award. Yours didn't. "Outlive the other faction", is, at this point, an actually reasonable goal, but

And you still ahven't explained your sudden bout of aggression.

[Geminex]

And for the people questioning Earl's intelligence, that sure is a coherent argument he is creating there. NOt a particularly good one, but he only has so much to work with.

I say this both because I genuinely like him and I think people give him too hard a time (including past me) and also because I want Nikose to really have a look at what's being said.

ALSO in case it wasn't clear, earl, your examples in regards to this bit:
I assume I would get stuff like the Detective's results or force the Doctor's healing to target me or something along those lines, so your listing of incompatible examples doesn't actually work that strongly.
Both don't work. In the case of the detective, you have already established that you don't know whose power you get to copy, nor do you know who was targeted. At best, you'd find out SOMEONE is town/scum/self-aligned. If the cop is really powerful, you might also get some information on their role or name, but cop is generally more alignment-focused. it might be kinda useful there, but that still leaves a whole bunch of roles where it's useless.

Doctor also doesn't work, because having him hit you would be retargeting the power. ANd you yourself said you can't retarget. So that'd be useless too.

Look, you obviously made up your roleclaim so you wouldn't have to take any responsiblity for what happened (I couldn't pick who I hit!), and you don't have to point any fingers (I don't know who I stole from!). I get that. But that kind of role just seems really, really stupid.

[Dracorion]

When RPG posted Bahamut's objective, it also didn't come with a point award. Only reason I didn't bring it up to argue against Earl.

[Dracorion]

Much as I'd love to believe Gem is scum, I'm going to have to

##Vote: Aldurin

[Geminex]

Oooh, I missed that. M'bad, then. That does seem weird, though. Points are supposed to be used to determine the winner. If some of us have extra points, and others don't, the ones that don't get shafted.

Though in the case of Bahamut, he's self-aligned. That's the hardest faction there is, and you win alone. That means there's no need for extra points, since you cannot possibly win any harder than when you're self-aligned.
I assume that's also why he gave his money away.

[Dracorion]

At a guess I'd say RPG just forgot to type out the point award when he typed it up for BF's lynch.

Which is, conceivably, a mistake Earl could also make.

Now I'm curious about the fact that you just spun an argument about why it's justifiable for BF to not have a point award. Because it implies that it's not justifiable for Earl not to have one.

[Geminex]

Because it implies that it's not justifiable for Earl not to have one.
Pretty much this. It makes sense from a gameplay perspective for everyone to have one. I have one. The only other townie we saw so far had one. I am going to presume you have one as well, though if you don't, and you feel you can reveal it without compromising anything, please lemme know.

It is justifiable, I think, for Bahamut not to have one, given the nature of his role, and it fits with his behavior so far. It makes a lot less sense for a Townie not to have one. It's possible, of course, and a missing point bonus alone is not something I'd lynch over if everything else about a role claim is in order. Small things like this are just tells. Individual tells don't mean much unless they're really major. But when they start to pile up, and, in earl's case they are piling up, each contributes a little more to his total suspcion.

And earl is already very suspicious, which is why I'm going after anything there is.

[Nikose Tyris]

...okay, I'm good with this.

##UNVOTE: GEMINEX

##VOTE: ALDURIN

If Aldurin comes up town, though, I think we should commit to lynching Geminex just for being a dastardly genius and winning bonus points for killing Aldy. :p

[Geminex]

Man if Earl really does come up town then I don't even know what is what.

Also this makes 4 votes. I am honestly pretty okay with ending the day at this point, but before we do, I'd like to know whether everyone is cool with me murdering fenris in teh night. Consider it another vote. I'll probably die anyway, so I'mnot really afraid of getting lynched, but I'd like to ehar everyone's thoughts.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah, I'm gona stick with Gem on this one. Something about Als claim just doesn't seem right to me. Of course there is the possibility both Gem and Al are town, and Gem has a kill order on a friendly like I do.

As for what you should do about Fenris, Gem, do whatever. If you really are a vig then use your power as you see fit and don't let anybody sway you. If you were a normal vig then Fenny would already be dead anyway, and he hasn't exactly put up much of a fight for you not to kill him off (though that could just be Fenris being Fenris and not talking much like usual). But if you want to branch out then go for that too. It makes scum rethink if they don't know whether you're going after one of them or one of their enemies.

For now though;

##Vote; Aldurin

Just know we're probably gona lynch the fuck out of you if he's town.

[rpgdemon]

Day 2 over

Post to follow.

[rpgdemon]

"Hey, I ain't your guy! I'm not trolling anyone! I hardly harass people at all, really! It's just fun to play jokes on people, you know? It's not trolling though, I swear!"

With these words, Aldurin, "YoMamma - Yo Yo Ma", Troll Leech was banned.

YoMamma - Yo Yo Ma: You're a troll, plain and simple. You berate everyone, and make their life miserable, slowly leeching away their desire to play, until they quit the game, and you get what you want.
Secret: Can steal 2 HP from a target at night. Makin' them miserable makes you happy!
Objective: Be the last scum standing.
Faction: Scum

[rpgdemon]

Monies to award!

Geminex, IC, Dracorion, Nikose Tyris, Hawk: +$3


Geminex: 10 HP, $8
Inbred Chocobo: 10 HP, $8
Dracorion: 5 HP, $3
Nikose: 13 HP, $8
Hawk: 10 HP, $13

What a windfall of money you all now have!

[rpgdemon]

Night has ended

Lullabyez has left a note in the thread, saying that he's really sorry, but he doesn't feel comfortable continuing, after the tongue-lashing he was given by some people in PMs.

Lullabyez: You've secretly created two characters, in order to keep yourself in the game as long as possible. Once Lullabyez dies, you'll hop on over to Forteh to jump your killer.
Secret: Has 1 throwaway account. (Total: 20 HP to die)
Objective: Kill whoever brings you below 10 HP. +5 points
Faction: ??????


Fenris has also left the game! He was told -TWICE- now, that he smells like a butt that someone did a poop on, and that was one time too many.

Demon da man: You're here to keep the game from getting too fun. Whenever you dislike someone, you send them angry PMs, and force them to drop the game.
Secret: -10 HP nightkill.
Objective: Kill that blasted healer. +2 points.
Faction: Troll

He also had this to say:

sorry I haven't really been playing - been super busy with school

Don't you feel bad now.


FINALLY, there have been more stat changes overnight!
Hawk's health has mysteriously dropped to 7.
Inbred Chocobo found $10! What a champ.

Main post will be updated in the morning. It is late.

[Fenris]

well hey that works out just fine

[Geminex]

Well.
WELL.
WELL WELL WELL.

Apparently, there goes the scum's nightkill.

Though I am not sure why Fenris did not murder me. Also, no idea what happened to Lullabyez. Was he the scum's nightkill? Did he just quit?

And where the hell is IC's money coming from?

[Geminex]

Seriously IC you had better not be holding out on us. I want some.

[Dracorion]

So, by process of elimination either IC or Gregness are most likely to be scum.

Or me, but I'm not about to include myself there.

Anyway, right now I'm leaning toward Greg.

Though my paranoid senses suggest that IC has been graverobbing.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Nah I am just a greedy bastard. However since I have money, let me roleclaim for you people so that you guys know where its coming from.

Richard: You're not too internet savvy, but you are loaded! You paid your way into an extra $10 to start. The GM will explain it away during D3, saying you found it, and pretending it's a random occurrence.
Secret: Starts with extra $10. This is revealed to be "found" on D3.
Objective: Earn $25 before you die. +4 points.
Faction: Town

Rather simple role, my Goal in life is just to make money. Why roleclaim? Because I just going to lay it out there, anyone want to donate to the funds to make IC rich? I just need $7 more bucks to get to my goal, and if I get there, it doesn't say I have to keep it so I can just give it back afterwards.

[Nikose Tyris]

Hm. I guess I was wrong yesterday! Happens!

I was going to do a post about how Geminex is still a suspect based on Aldurin's objective (Because what if all the trolls have a traitor objective) but then Fenris went and died and showed that to be wrong so hurray Fenris, your failures only serve to strengthen your enemies.

I dunno flip a coin on IC or Drac, Gregness is too quiet this game. I'm leaning Drac because I kind of approve of any role that just wants mad cash.

[Geminex]

Lemme get home from Uni before we do anything hasty, though. I've got a few thoughts to put down. I don't think it's Drac, honestly, I'd rather hit Gregness. But more on that when I'm not doing law.

((EDIT: Somebody please ask who died and made me king.))

[Dracorion]

Okay okay fine, GAWD.

Forteh Lullabyez: You've secretly created two characters, in order to keep yourself in the game as long as possible. Once Lullabyez dies, you'll hop on over to Forteh to jump your killer.
Secret: Has 1 throwaway account. (Total: 20 HP to die)
Objective: Kill whoever brings you below 10 HP. +5 points
Faction: Town

Incidentally, RPG told me via PM that Fenris tried to kill me and his death fulfilled my objective.

[Nikose Tyris]

Lemme get home from Uni before we do anything hasty, though. I've got a few thoughts to put down. I don't think it's Drac, honestly, I'd rather hit Gregness. But more on that when I'm not doing law.

((EDIT: Somebody please ask who died and made me king.))

At which point did Arceus abdicate and put you in charge of this universe, motherfucker?!

And yeah let's wait Until after Law class. I can respect that.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok, so, good times, we hit scum, and then scum-Fenris died (I'm assuming that was Gem?). If so then now we know Gem is definately town too (it's unlikely he'd be a scum traitor, since he was saying he was going to target Fenris anyway, and I doubt the rest of the mafia would take kindly to that and probably would have offed him themselves, unless it's some sort of Thanatos Gambit (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThanatosGambit)

At first I assumed that Lullabyez was Fenris' alt, and killing the main killed the other too, but now Drac is claiming Lulz is his and since he did help to lynch Aldurin and voted early on when it was still swinging between him and Gem I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

So that leaves us with Greg and IC. Not sure I like ICs claim. Something about the wording of the description just seems too clean cut to try and explain where he got the extra money from. But then we also haven't heard anything from Greg, so I can't get any sort of reading on him.

I'm also wondering just how many mafia are left at this point. I would assume based on number of players that there's only 3 in total, since 4 in an 11 player game (are we counting Lulz?) seems a bit much. There's also the fact that mafia can still do damage, as I took a hit last night. Is IC another health leecher, but instead of just taking health he gains money?* Maybe he steals kidneys or something, I duno.

So yeah, assuming Gem is now confirmed town, which I think is the case, then Drac probably is too, which means we need to look at IC and Greg. Personally I don't trust ICs claim, but I'd be more willing to lynch Greg first since we seem to have time anyway.


*Note; Yes, I know he didn't get anything the first night when there were 3 damage dealers, but perhaps rpg forgot and so paid out all of what he owed today instead.

[Dracorion]

Hawk, I think Nikose is the one that hit you. His role PM was revealed back in day 1 and his power is dealing 3 damage to a random target at night.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ah right, forgot about that. Fair enough then. That's a really terrible power though.

[Geminex]

At which point Who did Arceus abdicate died and put made you in charge king of this universe, motherfucker?!


Ooooh, well, how about I don't know Earl and Fenris

Well the way I see it, we have options right now! I do not think that we have more than one scum remaining. A setup of 4:6 seems fair even given all the powers town had. Doubly so since not all scum were on the same team.

So, we have one bad guy left. Probably. The question is, what faction? Mafia is the most likey. Mostly because a 2-person scumteam would suck and ALSO because we already killed a self-aligned dude. However this game is kinda wonky already and ultimately I think the possibility of someone self-aligned is something we need to consider if our expectations don't pan out in the next two or three rounds.

Also, if we assume there is one mafiate remaining, we have the pertinent question of what the hell their power is. We have experienced two nights so far, and the only damaging powers we've witnessed are mine, Nikose', Fenris' and Earl's. I killed Fenris and Earl, Hawk confirmed Nikose as town. That leaves me, who just murdered two Mafia members. If you accuse me of being mafia now just because I might have a betrayal objective, I'll smack you. Anyway, as it appears, all potential killing roles are town-aligned or dead by my my hand! Given that we have at least two confirmed townies (Hawk and Nikose), and probably no more than one mafiate, wouldn't that mean that town has won already? This is just idle speculation at this point, but unless the remaining mafiate inherits Fenris' power, it would seem that, if they even do anything, it's not something that's visible to us. Definitely interested to see what happens tonight.

But now down to the meat of my post, analysis buttloads of speculation!

I'm going to go through the list.


Nikose: 13 HP, $8: Nikose is uncanny, in that despite the fact that I know that he is confirmed town, something about him really makes me want to lynch him. Not policy lynch either, genuine suspicion. If the GM himself had not named him town, the tells would be massive. Everything from his resistance to Earl's lynch, over the fact that he's the last remaining damage-dealing role that I'm not sure of, to just general shiftiness. Like man.

ST1LL, V3RD1CT: TOWN! >: ]


Dracorion: 5 HP, $3: I definitely buy that Drac is Lullabyez. It's a known role, and he'd be an idiot to claim a pre-existing role. Thing is, is it town? The only lullabyez we saw had unknown alignment. We are also hunting trolls, and somebody who makes a backup account in a mafia game is definitely the kind of player who'd be considered disruptive. However, that's flavor, and secondary. It is also worth considering that he got +5 points for basically getting killed while I got a puny three for basically singlehandedly killing two mafiates. This is not relevant to speculation regarding his alignment but it does make me want to smack him.

Going against all that is the fact that he got hit by scum a few times. Earl would not have needed to drain from Drac of all people, and while I'm confused that Fenris did not kill me, I have no idea what he could possibly have gained from hitting Drac, if he was scum. Maybe Drac really wanted his point goal? Make Drac seem innocent? I don't even know.

He seemed pretty thoughtful in the earl discussion too, and voted eventually.

On a side note, it also seems weird that Drac would get a PM related to his goal when I didn't get one.

Note that if we do decide to go after Drac, we don't need to waste a lynch on him. I can nightkill his 5-HP ass.

V3RD1CT: PROB4BLY TOWN >: |


Inbred Chocobo: 10 HP, $8: Hooo boy. Getting money, fine. Graverobbing seems to be out of the question, since everyone else still has cash, and he didn't get any cash when Ryanderman died. I can't think of any good explanation as to where his sudden influx of royalties came from either, so I'm forced to assume that yeah, that was his power. That makes his role money-focused, and I don't see that mixing with a killing role. He was also pretty helpful overall. I'm gonna buy it.

V3RD1CT: PROB4BLY TOWN >: |


Hawk: 10 HP, $13: Yeah, no question there. Been a consistent Townie so far and confirmed Nik and Ryander at the start.
V3RD1CT: TOWN >: ]


Gregness: 10 HP, $5: Silent, unresponsive. Either hiding or inactive.
V3RD1CT: PROB4BLY NOT TOWN >: [

Geminex: 10 HP, $8: Ooh, it is me! I just killed two mafiates, so I'm probably not mafia myself! Again, even a "be the last faction member standing" goal isn't worth murdering your entire faction. Though I kind of wish I was mafia, if only for the sweet betrayal cred. Ah well.

The fact that Fenris didn't kill me when he had the chance is kinda weird, but at this point I am thanking my lucky stars more than anything. maybe he wanted to keep me alive so I'd kill more townies? I dun even know.

If we assumed that the last remaining scum was self-aligned, maybe a SK, I am pretty much the only person that could be, but that'd assume a two-player mafia, which is kinda dumb. Also a serial killer wouldn't stick out his goddamn head in order to kill the mafia. Before we talk about lynching me, though, I'd like to go after Gregness.
V3RD1CT: PROB4BLY TOWN 4ND 4LSO TOT4LLY 4W3SOM3 >: D


ALSO, there is the possiblity that we've eliminated all scum and that the game is still running because one of us has a betrayal goal (maybe "be the last townie standing?"). I don't consider it particularly likely, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

Okay that is my post.

##VOTE: GREGNESS

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Gem, assuming the mafia kills work like they usually do and there is only 1 mafia left, then they are still a threat and can kill again, hence why the game is still running. Mafia kills are not usually limited to 1 person on the team. And the only betrayal goal we know of now is my kill nikose one, which is never gona happen anyway, so it would be wierd for that to be the only thing keeping the game running. Unless you wanna lynch me to make sure, but I doubt it'll help.

[Geminex]

Gem, assuming the mafia kills work like they usually do and there is only 1 mafia left, then they are still a threat and can kill again, hence why the game is still running. Mafia kills are not usually limited to 1 person on the team. And the only betrayal goal we know of now is my kill nikose one, which is never gona happen anyway, so it would be wierd for that to be the only thing keeping the game running. Unless you wanna lynch me to make sure, but I doubt it'll help.

Well, normally the nightkill isn't an individual mafiate's power. But the power Fenris hadf (to deal 10 damage per night) pretty much was their nightkill. If you'll look at the front page, everyone targeted at night lost 10 HP. It seems weird to assign that power specifically to Fenris if it's a factional power.

Of course, I allow for that, since the power can get inherited. Maybe whoever is left gained the power on fen's death.

And nah, I don't wanna lynch based on "hey, we might all be townies!". We assume that there's scum left, and lynch on that basis. If it turns out that we were chasing ghosts, ah well, GG town!

[Dracorion]

$$Bribe Hawk, IC and Nikose with $1 each to vote for Gem.

Because he's being kind of a jerk right now.

[Geminex]

Wait, what's that for! I am just trying to lay it all out!

And maybe being a little bit smug. Is it the smugness?

[Dracorion]

But no, really.

##Vote: Gregness

I'll get Gem next time!

[Geminex]

I'll get Gem next time!

THOSE ARE SOME NICE 5 HP THERE DRAC
IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF SOMETHING
HAPPENED TO THEM

[Nikose Tyris]

##VOTE: GREGNESS
I suppose if I always come across as scummy, I technically have no tells?

[Geminex]

I suppose if I always come across as scummy, I technically have no tells?

I am not sure that is how it is supposed to work.

Also, I'm not gonna hit anyone tonight. This may be my last chance to, but I don't think that we should be hasty before Gregness is dead. If Gregness turns out to be non-scum and we've still got something to do, I'll see what happens next.

ALSO:

$$OFFER TO LEND IC 8 DOLLARS AT AN INTEREST RATE OF 225% PER DAY, TO BE REPAYED TOMORROW
((TO CLARIFY I GIVE HIM 8$ NOW, HE GIVES ME 26$ TOMORROW))

[Inbred Chocobo]

$$ACCEPT GEM'S OFFER Sure, achieves my goal and gives you the most money. A bit odd that one, but I doubt I will achieve my goal any other way.

I am also at a conundrum. I don't think Gregness is scum. Inactives tend to just be useless roles or vanillas. This is an odd game though so that might not be true.

I also have to debate on whether my vote is worth a dollar, being the greedy player I am. Is Gem's life worth a dollar? That is a question we must all ask ourselves.

Ah its probably worth at least 2. I express concern for the fact that the faction for Lullebyz wasn't revealed, so that makes me think something is odd about Draco. However between the two of Draco and Gregness, I am willing to gamble its Gregy

##VOTE: Gregness

[Geminex]

Allright, that's 4 on Greg.

I suddenly find myself hoping that Greg isn't scum, because if he is, and we win tonight, I don't get my money back.

[rpgdemon]

Day 3 has ended

Post to follow.

[rpgdemon]

Inbred Chocobo now has $26!
Geminex now has $0!

Time to ban some people!

"Look, guys, I just wanted to help. I hate all this negativity. I didn't want it to go down this way... I was feeling sorta out of it these past few days, didn't know what to say... I'm not the troll! I'm trying to fight them!"

Gregness, Broseidan, Town has been banned.

Broseidan: You're going to keep this game fun, or die trying. You hate people ruining fun, and will bitch them the fuck out, until they quit this game, publicly shamed.
Secret: Can deal 5 damage publicly each day.
Objective: Find and kill that scoundrel who is doing vigilante justice in the night. +3 points
Faction: Town

Night 3 has begun. Send me in your stuff.

[rpgdemon]

A new day has dawned.

Overnight, Geminex, VeggieGreenz, Town-Vigilante came out and said that he had to quit, because those trolls were starting to scare him.

VeggieGreenz: You're going to keep the game fun, but in your own special way! You'll send PMs to people who you think are being mean, that -might- make them want to just quit the game instead...
Secret: Can deal 5 damage secretly each night.
Objective: Find and kill that scoundrel who's trolling, and stealing people's health at night. +3 points
Faction: Town


Also, Dracorion, Forteh-Lullabyez, Town Bulletproof was told that his mother was a hampster, and his father smells of elderberries, and also that VeggieGreenz was very sorry that it came to this.


Forteh Lullabyez: You've secretly created two characters, in order to keep yourself in the game as long as possible. Once Forteh dies, you'll hop on over to Lullabyez to jump your killer.
Secret: Has 1 throwaway account. (Total: 20 HP to die)
Objective: Kill whoever brings you below 10 HP. +5 points
Faction: Town

Discuss!

[Geminex]

TOTALLY WORTH IT

[rpgdemon]

Oh yeah, also, Hawk takes 3 damage. Poor Hawk.

[Dracorion]

Goddammit, you asshole.

[Nikose Tyris]

...OH MY GOD

WHO IS IT. WHICH OF YOU TWO FUCKERS DO I POINT MY GUN AT.

ARGH.

[Nikose Tyris]

We've been assuming that Hawk's power use of exposing a character sheet was a sign of town-ness, since he used it to benefit town, but that is NO INDICATION OF SUCH A THING. He could very well be Mafia.

And Inbred Chocobo is a Moneywhore who bought his way into this game. He's like Chevy Chase and I HATE CHEVY CHASE.

[Nikose Tyris]

I want arguements from both sides as to why the other one is the real troll, plz. D:

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Goddamnit Nikose stop killing me!

Anyways, I guess now we know the mafia is IC. I told you I never liked his claim. Guess now we know. And really Nik, me as mafia? Surviving this long? Alone? Killing off at least one of my own (although I think IC did that anyway, so that doesn't mean much) and exposing 2 masons? Honestly, I'm not that good of a player to pull this off. More likely me and you have been left alive because the mafia knows I have an objective to kill you and are going to attempt a bribe with that $25. It's the only reason I can think of for it.

Of course I'm not sure how we all stand on points right now, so their plan might not work out anyway. RPG, can we get a point count?

[rpgdemon]

There's no point count available, because objectives aren't public information. You will have to gauge for yourself where you think people are at in terms of points.

Post-game, I will tally up everyone's scores and post them, as well as everyone's character information.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Honestly? I am thinking its Hawk.

Consider that his role that his objective is to kill another townie (that seems rather odd) the ability to out any role in public (which when it comes right down to it, is bad for towns if in mafia hands, as they get to know who exactly is the vigilante or such). I think its pretty obvious that is scum

##VOTE: Hawk

As for why I am not scum? My role is solely involved with money, so that is what I am after.

EDIT: Oh wait, its just me, Nikose, and Hawk isn't it? Nikose its Hawk, vote for him.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I was a 1 shot PO. How is that a scum power, ever? And if I was scum, why would I tell you all I had an objective to kill Nikose? The only reason I mentioned that at all was because it was an objective to kill a teammate and I figured if I had such a role, there were potentially others like me, so people might not be playing solely for their teams benefit. I've been completely honest about my role from the start, even when it might have made me look shifty, in order to make town aware of what kind of roles this game has going on.

To be honest I genuinely did think at this point you would try to bribe me based on that objective, though I suppose doing so would out you completely to Nikose, and you're too scared to take the risk we both just lynch you. I can't blame you for playing it safe though I guess. Anyway, since that idea is off the table

##Vote: Inbred Chocobo

Since we know there is only 1 scum left, and I know it's not me o Nik, this is the only option left. Nik, the scum is IC, vote for him.

[Nikose Tyris]

Whelp only one thing to do.

Heads it's Hawk,

Tails it's Inbred.

[Nikose Tyris]

##VOTE: INBRED CHOCOBO

[rpgdemon]

The final day is over.

I'll make you sit and anticipate it a bit longer while I type up the post.

[rpgdemon]

"But, I'm too rich to be banned! Take more money! More money!"

Inbred Chocobo, Troll Moneyman has been banned.


Inbred Chocobo
Richard: You're not too internet savvy, but you are loaded! You paid your way into an extra $10 to start. The GM will explain it away during D3, saying you found it, and pretending it's a random occurrence. You don't care about anyone's fun, just your own winning, and as such, you are going to talk to the trolls trying to get people to quit the game.
Secret: Starts with extra $10. This is revealed to be "found" on D3.
Objective: Earn $25 before you die. +4 points.
Faction: Scum


The town wins! Yay for the town!

First off, let's call out Gem for having played excellently. Dude is definitely the MVP.

I'll be tallying points soon, but for now, how'd it go?

[Geminex]

Okay, can I say it now? Okay? Okay.

OH THANK GOD.

For a moment there I thought you were gonna lose it, Nikose! A coin toss? God, my poor heart.


First off, let's call out Gem for having played excellently. Dude is definitely the MVP.
2AIRQZAgtaE

Edit: Also, it went really well! I think town may have been a teeeensy bit weak, since it came down to Lynch-or-Lose even after we did pretty well in the first two rounds, but it all turned out allright. Role Madness games are always hard to balance, but they're a lot more interesting than vanilla games, and you didn't go overboard. The points and money mechanics seemed a bit redundant at first, but they did add some spice to the game by giving people ulterior motives.

in whole, great game and a thrilling conclusion, gg everyone!

[Fenris]

So can somebody tell me why I was supposed to kill Gem? I didn't actually read the thread.

Also afaik my team never talked to each other once.

[Geminex]

So can somebody tell me why I was supposed to kill Gem? I didn't actually read the thread.

Also afaik my team never talked to each other once.

I announced that I was gonna nightkill you and I led the lynch on earl.

[rpgdemon]

Gem was the town Vigilante, and on D1? D2? Said as much in a roleclaim.

[rpgdemon]

Everyone's characters:
Nikose:
1336HAX: You are an internet dweller who just doesn't -quite- get it. You keep trying to fit in with the haxxors, but it always goes wrong. Likewise, in this game, you keep trying to be a big know-it-all showoff by hacking the server and changing HP values, but keep messing up. On the plus side, you're masoned with a buddy PuGLyfe.
Secret: Will deal 3 damage to random target at nights.
Objective: Wants HEALZ alive. +3 points
Faction: Town
Mason: Ryanderman

Ryanderman:
PuGLyfe: You and 1336HAX are townies, masoned together. You're the doc, so obviously you want to keep your players alive.
Secret: Can heal 3 damage from a player each night. (This will preventa single kill, as well, leaving the player with 3 health)
Objective: Keep as many townsfolk alive as possible. +2 points per townsfolk alive at game over.
Faction: Town
Mason: Nikose

Hawk:
Superfr33k: You love trying to figure out secrets. In fact, you're sure that you've exposed at least one conspiracy, involving a player in this game you're all playing. Just snap your fingers, and they'll be exposed to the public! On the other hand, you HATE hackers, and you think 1336HAX has got to be taken down, just to prove a point.
Secret: Can publicly expose ONE player's character sheet.
Objective: Kill 1336HAX +3 points
Faction: Town

Dracorion:
Forteh Lullabyez: You've secretly created two characters, in order to keep yourself in the game as long as possible. Once Forteh dies, you'll hop on over to Lullabyez to jump your killer.
Secret: Has 1 throwaway account. (Total: 20 HP to die)
Objective: Kill whoever brings you below 10 HP. +5 points
Faction: Town

Gregness:
Broseidan: You're going to keep this game fun, or die trying. You hate people ruining fun, and will bitch them the fuck out, until they quit this game, publicly shamed.
Secret: Can deal 5 damage publicly each day.
Objective: Find and kill that scoundrel who is doing vigilante justice in the night. +3 points
Faction: Town

Geminex:
VeggieGreenz: You're going to keep the game fun, but in your own special way! You'll send PMs to people who you think are being mean, that -might- make them want to just quit the game instead...
Secret: Can deal 5 damage secretly each night.
Objective: Find and kill that scoundrel who's trolling, and stealing people's health at night. +3 points
Faction: Town

BahamutFlare:
Cow_Macaw_Macow: You're an obnoxious pompous jerk. You make everyone's life miserable, and eventually they're just going to quit the game. And you know what? You're okay with that. They're jerks too.
Secret: Everyone who votes with you loses 2 health.
Objective: Be the last man standing.
Faction: Self

Aldurin:
YoMamma - Yo Yo Ma: You're a troll, plain and simple. You berate everyone, and make their life miserable, slowly leeching away their desire to play, until they quit the game, and you get what you want.
Secret: Can steal 2 HP from a target at night. Makin' them miserable makes you happy!
Objective: Be the last scum standing. +5 Points*
Faction: Scum

Fenris:
Demon da man: You're here to keep the game from getting too fun. Whenever you dislike someone, you send them angry PMs, and force them to drop the game.
Secret: -10 HP nightkill.
Objective: Kill that blasted healer. +2 points.
Faction: Scum

Inbred Chocobo:
Richard: You're not too internet savvy, but you are loaded! You paid your way into an extra $10 to start. The GM will explain it away during D3, saying you found it, and pretending it's a random occurrence. You don't care about anyone's fun, just your own winning, and as such, you are going to talk to the trolls trying to get people to quit the game.
Secret: Starts with extra $10. This is revealed to be "found" on D3.
Objective: Earn $25 before you die. +4 points.
Faction: Scum


*So, I forgot to send Aldurin's point value in his initial role PM. I immediately sent him a PM afterwards telling him the point value of his objective, but he must have forgotten, when he roleclaimed. Incidentally, this is also why he had no point value when I pasted his character sheet in. I copy/pasted people's character info out of their role PMs.

[Dracorion]

I propose taking away Gem's MVP status for helping IC complete his objective.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

My only regret is not killing Nikose. Seriously IC, a bribe could have won you the game there. Or were you more interested in the points?

I propose taking away Gem's MVP status for helping IC complete his objective.

Seconded.

[Geminex]

I propose taking away Gem's MVP status for helping IC complete his objective.

That was calculated to get him to nightkill me over Hawk, though. Because I figured hawk was way more strongly confirmed than I was. If IC had killed hawk instead, it nikose would've had to choose between me and IC. I figured Hawk and IC would give us a better chance of winning.

Also, on teh off-chance that both I and IC would survive the night, I wanted the money.

[Dracorion]

Sure, sure.

[Fenris]

I announced that I was gonna nightkill you and I led the lynch on earl.

Those are good reasons.

[Geminex]

Sure, sure.

2AIRQZAgtaE

[Dracorion]

Well, you saying that on the same day you believed Gregness to be the last mafiate and voted for him, you also believed that IC was the last mafiate and surreptitiously manipulated him into killing you, is a little beyond my capacity to believe.

[Nikose Tyris]

I didn't actually flip a coin, I was pretty sure it was IC. I was just playin'.

[Geminex]

Well, you saying that on the same day you believed Gregness to be the last mafiate and voted for him, you also believed that IC was the last mafiate and surreptitiously manipulated him into killing you, is a little beyond my capacity to believe.

At the point I made that offer, we had three possible mafiates. IC, Gregness, and you.

If it had been Gregness, we would have won easily. I believed it to be gregness, but I was aware I might be wrong.

If it had been you, we would have won easily, because I could kill you in the night if Gregness didn't come up scum. I know I said I wouldn't, but I was kinda overoptimistic there.

If it had been IC, and he didn't have a kill, we would've won easily as well, since we had two confirmed townies in a voting block.

If it had been IC and he had a kill, then his choice, at night, would have been between Hawk and myself. He couldn't kill Nik because Nikky had 12 HP. In that case, town would benefit from IC targeting me, since I was fairly certain hawk was town, and thought Nikose would definitely side with Hawk against IC if it came to that constellation. I couldnot be sure he'd side with me as easily.

I'm not saying I expected one particular option. I just planned for all of them. If it had actually been Gregness or you, I would have lost my money, no question. But it wasn't about the money, Drac. It was about winning.

After all, this is meta mafia!
Everything's made up!
And the points...
:cool:
don't matter.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I was playing the point victory condition actually, and that was why I didn't bribe. In fact if my calculations are correct, I won it at 29 points, so while the town did win, I should be crowned the ultimate winner.

[Geminex]

I didn't actually flip a coin, I was pretty sure it was IC. I was just playin'.

Pfft. Well, you made things exciting, certainly. : p

Also, I would like to apologize for the amount of concentrated wank in my previous post, but I could not resist.

[Aldurin]

I call bullshit on the relationship between Gem's role and mine, where he was given some vital information that let him immediately pinpoint me on D2. So that combined with helping IC doesn't make him MVP at all.

[Nikose Tyris]

Just so we're clear, btw, "wants HEALZ alive" turned out to be "Wants PugL4f3" alive.

[Ryanderman]

I was playing the point victory condition actually, and that was why I didn't bribe. In fact if my calculations are correct, I won it at 29 points, so while the town did win, I should be crowned the ultimate winner.

Getting points: At the end of the game, you get one point per two points of health you have left. You get five points for having the most money of all the players when the game ends. Money is still yours when you die. You get bonus points for completing your objectives.

How do you get 29 points? I have you at 9, for having the most money.

Also, it occurred to me it might be a good idea to heal myself that night. But I figured I wasn't allowed to, so didn't. I now wish I had actually checked whether I could or not, as possibly I could have.

[rpgdemon]

The final scores!

Inbred Chocobo: +4 points from objective
+5 points from health
+5 points from money
Total: 14 points

Nikose: +0 points from objective
+6 points from health
+0 points from money
Total: 6 points

Aldurin: +0 points from objective
+6 points from health
+0 points from money
Total: 6 points

Hawk: +0 points from objective
+2 points from health
+0 points from money
Total: 6 points

Dracorion: +5 points from objective
+0 points from health
+0 points from money
Total: 5 points

Gregness: +0 points from objective
+5 points from health
+0 points from money.
Total: 5 points.

Ryanderman: +4 Points from objective
+0 points from health
+0 points from money.
Total: 4 points


Geminex: +3 points from objective
+0 points from health
+0 points from money
Total: 3 points.

BahamutFlare: +0 points from objective
+5 points from health
+0 points from money
Total: 3 points

Fenris: +2 points from objective
+0 points from health
+0 points from money
Total: 2 points

Inbred Chocobo is the overall point-champion, with a whopping 14 points

Inbred won the crap out of the point totals, but after that, it was very close. I think, in hindsight, I'd have made a lot of mini-objectives, or things that scaled along the lines of Ryanderman's goals instead of large goals, but the biggest thing I wanted to do with the points and money was add some texture and intrigue into the game by having people worry about their goals and money as well as other things, which I think was successful.

[Geminex]

I call bullshit on the relationship between Gem's role and mine, where he was given some vital information that let him immediately pinpoint me on D2. So that combined with helping IC doesn't make him MVP at all.

Pfft, I still had to apply that, and actually get the lynch rolling. I was probably the strongest town role, all things considered, but you have to admit I used it well.

Also how are points even relevant? Points are freakin' arbitrary.

[Dracorion]

How do Earl and Hawk get 6 points?

And how does IC have health if he died?

[Dracorion]

Also, I did have a LITTLE bit of money. None of those guys ever accepted my $1 bribe.

Welp no, money doesn't matter if I didn't have the most.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

At the point I made that offer, we had three possible mafiates. IC, Gregness, and you.

If it had been Gregness, we would have won easily. I believed it to be gregness, but I was aware I might be wrong.

If it had been you, we would have won easily, because I could kill you in the night if Gregness didn't come up scum. I know I said I wouldn't, but I was kinda overoptimistic there.

If it had been IC, and he didn't have a kill, we would've won easily as well, since we had two confirmed townies in a voting block.

If it had been IC and he had a kill, then his choice, at night, would have been between Hawk and myself. He couldn't kill Nik because Nikky had 12 HP. In that case, town would benefit from IC targeting me, since I was fairly certain hawk was town, and thought Nikose would definitely side with Hawk against IC if it came to that constellation. I couldnot be sure he'd side with me as easily.

I'm not saying I expected one particular option. I just planned for all of them. If it had actually been Gregness or you, I would have lost my money, no question. But it wasn't about the money, Drac. It was about winning.

After all, this is meta mafia!
Everything's made up!
And the points...
:cool:
don't matter.

...

If this is actually true, then you just pulled a Xanatos Gambit, with built in Thanatos Gambit. You magnificent bastard.

I was playing the point victory condition actually, and that was why I didn't bribe. In fact if my calculations are correct, I won it at 29 points, so while the town did win, I should be crowned the ultimate winner.

I don't think it's 29 points dude. You get 1 point for every 2 health, 5 for having the most money, and 4 for your secret objective. So you should get 14, which I think is still enough for victory.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Admittedly Gem, if my ultimate goal was to win as scum I didn't have a chance, but my goal was going for the point victory. That was what I was aiming for.

Let's do a rough point count from my side of things

BahamutFlare 10 HP $0 Objective meet? No
Total 5

Nikose 13 HP, $8 Objective meet? No
Total 6

Aldurin 12 HP, $5 Objective meet? No
Total 6

Dracorion 0 HP, $3 Objective meet? Yes
Total 5

Fenris 0 HP, Objective meet? No
Total 0

Inbred Chocobo 10 HP, $26 Objective meet? Yes
Total 14

Ryanderman 0 HP, Objective meet? +2 for each townie
Total 4

Hawk: 4 HP, $13 Objective meet? No
Total 2

Gregness 10 HP, $5 Objective meet? Since he was dead before Gem died, unsure, we will say for arguments yes
Total 8

Geminex 0 HP, $0 Objective meet? Yes
Total 3

Lullabyez <-- look at Drac


As you can see, in the points game I was the ultimate winner, so you may crown your champion now, good game guys. It was fun playing a different game compared to everyone else.

[rpgdemon]

I call bullshit on the relationship between Gem's role and mine, where he was given some vital information that let him immediately pinpoint me on D2. So that combined with helping IC doesn't make him MVP at all.

Yeah, when I set that up, I didn't even realize that it'd be easy to pinpoint who was gaining unexplained health. In hindsight, I think I would have given one more townie an ability that heals a random player for 2 health each night, to help mask you, or figured out some other way of masking your presence better.

[Dracorion]

...

If this is actually true, then you just pulled a Xanatos Gambit, with built in Thanatos Gambit. You magnificent bastard.

Well I still don't buy it. But that's because it's Gem.

[rpgdemon]

I believe IC's post is correct, but if you missed it, on page 18 I break down the points and crown him champion.

[Geminex]

Admittedly Gem, if my ultimate goal was to win as scum I didn't have a chance, but my goal was going for the point victory. That was what I was aiming for.

Yeah, but you still got your ass banned. Like, well done, you have points, but, again. Points, and the opportunity to gain them, were pretty arbitrary, and the hunt for points was on in the context of the greater mafia game. You can't put individual victory over your factional victory, if only because the game would collapse if everyone did so.

Edit:
Still, you achieved the goal you'd set for yourself, so well done on that. I dun wanna be a party pooper, I'm just saying that I think it's not in the spirit of the game to place yourself above your team.

[rpgdemon]

You can't put individual victory over your factional victory, if only because the game would collapse if everyone did so.

I think you totally can, and some people were set up so that they essentially had the choice which one they'd want to play for.

[Geminex]

Well I still don't buy it. But that's because it's Gem.
2AIRQZAgtaE

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Also was I the only person with a betrayal objective? How was I ever supposed to achieve that, especially on a mason, combined with a 1 shot PO ability? I mean I could have tried to push for a Nikose lynch on day 1, but then he came out and claimed mason, so there was no way anyone was going to lynch him after that.

[rpgdemon]

Also was I the only person with a betrayal objective? How was I ever supposed to achieve that, especially on a mason, combined with a 1 shot PO ability? I mean I could have tried to push for a Nikose lynch on day 1, but then he came out and claimed mason, so there was no way anyone was going to lynch him after that.

The way that played out was rough for you. The way I would have had it go was to say, "We're getting pinged to death, it's undoing our healing, let's get rid of him.", but that's kind of hard.

Aldurin had a betrayal objective, he wanted to be the last mafiate alive. Gregness was a daytime-Vig, and his goal was to kill the night-Vig. I also gave them each the 5 HP hit, so that they could burn down one player per cycle extra, if they both used it.

[Geminex]

I think you totally can, and some people were set up so that they essentially had the choice which one they'd want to play for.

Then that's badly designed, though. Betrayal is something you have to handle really carefully in Mafia, since there's already enough uncertainty around without having to worry about getting stabbed in the back. Factions are a central component to mafia, if you add a mechanic where even faction members might be playing against you, then you're destroying that mechanic and fostering a free-for-all attitude that takes a lot of the depth out of the game. Individual victory is certainly not a core element of mafia, and if the point mechanic was intended to be anything other than ancilliary then you should probably have let people know "hey, betrayal game" when you opened signups.

I just saw them like achievements in video games. Sure, you wanna get the achievements, but you want to get them in teh course of normal play. You might change your course a little in order to get a specific achievement, but they're not, generally, the main goal. If earl had the choice between winning as last scum standing, or winning along with a teammate, tehn, sure, smoke the teammate. But don't tell me he shoulda chosen his point score over a factional victory. That's a dick move to pretty much everyone in the game, since you're undermining town's efforts and you're giving him incentive to screw over his team.

And honestly, individualism in mafia is generally dumb. You play, and win, as factions. And for all my victory dancing, I will not for a moment try to supplant the fact that this was a town victory with my own performance.

So yeah, Earl and Drac're right. Town is MVP, not me. Overall I really think we played well. Kudos to everyone. I helped.

The victory dances stay, though.
I dance in the name of town.






2AIRQZAgtaE

[Inbred Chocobo]

You are just said because I won the point game I got crowned champion.

[Geminex]

You are just said because I won the point game I got crowned champion.

I cannot hid my raging jealousy, alas. What I would not give to just touch your crown.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Bitches love the crown.

[Nikose Tyris]

I had fun here. I would do this again. Good job, RPG.

[BahamutFlare]

Good game. I kinda wish I was around to maybe defend myself D1, but at least town won and that makes me happy. Especially after all the roles were revealed, there was 0 chance in hell I was going to win and be last man standing.

With money, I was going for the faction win because I agree with Gem. The points don't matter.

[rpgdemon]

In any case, I'm glad y'all had fun, since my biggest goal was to make an enjoyable game.

[Gregness]

I want to apologize for going AWOL on the game you guys. I had a disagreement with another forumite right after the game started which sort of poisoned my will to frequent the forum for a few days. The proper way to handle it would have been to PM rpgdemon and get it handled and I didn't.

So, yeah, sorry. :(

[rpgdemon]

Incidentally, that might be part of the reason the town felt as if it were underpowered. With such a small town, one person being inactive means that the town is 16.6% smaller.

Plus, Gregness had (essentially) the other half of the Vig role.

No worries though, dude. The town won, regardless. I was just sad since I thought your role would be cool to see what happened with it.