The Rule of Versus - A Grumpy Argument

[Bells]

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So, a recent episode of Game Grumps brought to mind a subject that i'm sure many of us went through in our younger days.

See the video above for it! But here is the gist...

What's Versus Etiquette on gaming for you? Cause i'll tell ya... on Goldeneye i would watch the living SHIT out of the other player's screen. And on Mario kart or Need for speed, i WILL ran the PC car onto your car...

And in Mortal Kombat 3? It's 1 Button Fatality codes for all or NO mortal kombat!

But, how you guys do when you're playing with friends or against friends? I mean, nowadays is a bit more rare to join a bunch of people together to play games like that, where a Smash Bros match could turn into a Knife Fight at any given second... but those were fun.

Would you give tips to the other player? Would you handicap yourself on purpose?!

THE WORLD MUST KNOW!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Anything goes. Except screen-watching. That's what Hitler does.

[Bells]

I always felt like Hitler was that one kid that would bring his own Turbo Controller to the Steet Fighter 2 Tournament at his friend's house, y'know?

Everybody is there, brackets are filled, and then he pulls the Turbo out of his backpack and everybody goes "GHerrhhhjjjjmmmmmmm" quietly

[Magus]

I'm fairly ruthless, I went a little far one time though with someone who was pretty much completely new to Smash Bros. Melee and they got pretty pissed. You need to know when to put on the kid gloves.

If you've played a game several times before, though, I have little mercy. This extends into board/card games too. Again, it depends on context. If you want someone to get better at it you can't completely destroy them. This extends into chess and so on, you have to be good but you have to explain what you're doing and why when they lose.

For the clip above, obviously learning the basic controls would come under a category of non-ruthlessness.

[Solid Snake]

There's a difference between an advantage that stems from knowledge of advanced strategy or tactics, and an advantage that stems from knowledge of the basic control scheme.

At the time Arin asked Jon for help, Jon was already guaranteed to win the match. At best, knowledge of the proper button to press would have simply helped Arin stay at a pace behind Jon. From that perspective, Arin wasn't frustrated with Jon because he was going to lose, he was frustrated because not even knowing the controls took all the fun out of the game itself.

This just strikes me as a communication error between friends, though. Jon was in hyper-competitive mode and he interpreted Arin's initial comments as the typical kind of trash gamers say when gamers are frustrated when they're losing. Arin was actually genuinely confused and upset, and I don't think he actually cared whether he won or lost.

So Jon probably should've helped Arin out, but as with any frequently-watched series on the interwebs, I have to be a little skeptical. Exaggerated conflicts lead to more views and more comments from viewers, after all.

[Magus]

They are always getting fake-mad on there, I doubt it really amounted to much. But he did sound genuinely aggravated in the moment.

[Krylo]

The continued argument was clearly a strategy to win the next round, by causing enough distraction so as to make Jon run out of time.

What a dick move.

[Magus]

Are you saying that Egoraptor understands...the Greater Game?!

[Krylo]

No. I'm sayin' he's a dick.

[Solid Snake]

No. I'm sayin' he's a dick.

Based on how much Ego struggles when attempting to play vidjagaems, I think you're actually giving him a bit too much credit in the long-term strategic thinking department there, Kry.

[Krylo]

God, you guys.

Just let me call popular internet people, that I personally can't stand watching, names.

Just

Let me have this.

[Solid Snake]

Just let me call popular internet people, that I personally can't stand watching, names.

I was just trying to help!!!

[Bells]

Actually, as far as Egoraptor goes... always saw him as a likeable but totally normal guy. The stuff he does and did was mostly "lol wut" funny for the momment, like the Awesome series. Lately he has been trying all sorts of different stuff on how to earn a living by being him... and he wanted to work with games somehow, he did Girl Chan in paradise, which is pretty much his last big animation project, then he moved on to the Tester (and that backfired incredibly) and Sequelitis, and some other stuff here and there... i think he found a stride with Jon, since they actually do have some cool chemistry and inprov fun with one another...

Quite honestly, i hope the guy gets a job as an voice actor or some such (he does have the voice for it) cause this is pretty much all he has going on for him...

[Ryong]

Dark Souls is filled to the brim with people who want to do HONORABLE duels that begin with bowing from both parties. I end up doing it a bunch, from a safe distance.
As I tend to lag against everyone and as such my parries and backstabs never, ever connect, I tend to just fight without doing it.

If they start just endlessy strafing to try and get a backstab, however, I will spam the cheapest magic I have avaliable just to fuck with them.

In other games, I tend to do the silliest shit, like trying stupid combos in BlazBlue that look good but don't do much.

[Magus]

I'm still waiting for Part 3 of Girl Chan in Paradise.

[Krylo]

Dark Souls is filled to the brim with people who want to do HONORABLE duels that begin with bowing from both parties. I end up doing it a bunch, from a safe distance.


I actually kinda hate this, 'cause you never know whether the guy attacking you is one of the ones who is gonna bow or just start shooting and I always feel like an asshole if I go in swinging and the guy is like mid bow when my first hit connects, but if I don't it's always one of the latter type and I end up at a disadvantage for at least the first little bit of the fight.

[Doc ock rokc]

There is in my head 4 levels of play.
Learning play- new game new controls. Information can and should be freely shared until you and your enemies have their "game legs"

Serious play- Srs bsns! Usually has a unspoken code of honor (Like banned weapons or no infinites). Information is given on controls and basics only. Stratagy is secret.

Free for all - Fuck rules. No information given no codes of honor. Everything goes! This is both fun, frustrating, and therapeutic way to play. Especially if you bust out your Dirty tricks on someone who deserves it.

Silly play- Honor is there but you are not playing to the fullest of your ability. You are honestly just trying something new.

[Arcanum]

I actually kinda hate this, 'cause you never know whether the guy attacking you is one of the ones who is gonna bow or just start shooting and I always feel like an asshole if I go in swinging and the guy is like mid bow when my first hit connects, but if I don't it's always one of the latter type and I end up at a disadvantage for at least the first little bit of the fight.

My rule of thumb is: if I'm in one of the common dueling spots (Forest, Kiln, Oolacile Township, NG+ Undead Burg) I'll bow and respect their bow. If I get randomly invaded, or invade someone in some other area, anything goes.

[The SSB Intern]

What I learned in countless Brawl matches with my best friend in High School.

1. Always win.
2. If you can't win, unplug the other person's controller.

[PyrosNine]

Pyros believes in matching honor for honor, and if the other player isn't willing to show some semblance of fair play, honesty (where expected) or at least backbone, punish them brutally with whatever means possible. Nobility requires trained skill, so that when your opponent isn't on the up and up, you're good enough to screw him over regardless.

In Gunz, there were certain cheap, cheapy cheap means of victory, especially with say, a knife and a pair of uzi's. THe special knife attack was a lunge that was an instant knock down (you could recover out of it, but only with really, really good timing), and with the right uzi's the opponent could fire a full clip into someone's head for a easy kill.

My response was usually to wait for him to try, use the Sword's special attack (an uppercut that sends them flying in the air, and if they don't recover in time, they also are knocked down) and then shoot him in the face while he was in mid air with my revolvers and then hit him with a quick sword swipe- and he's dead before he hits the ground.

And that's not even mentioning the players that can do something called the Shoryuken which is something similar but involves cancels and death before they even reach their apogee.

Much raging ensues from the less honorable upon being defeatd, whereas an experienced player realizes "oh shit, I'd better get my act together because cheap parlor tricks won't cut it!"

In modern play, I believe that if you're ever playing with someone you've never met before, you need to go easy and then ramp up the better they play- that way you aren't that jackass who spends the entire game of Halo getting insta kill shotgun melees and sniper rifle shots from across the map, giggling like a 5 year old the entire while, and if you meet someone who can actually keep up, then you can get in gear.

On that particular game of Nick GUTS, having played it as a kid and with my little brother, I can say that NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HOW TO PLAY THAT GAME, and the goal is not victory by knowledge, but victory by skill.

Even I want to know how Jon tron is getting back up to that platform, because I don't have a clue. I bet it involves proper timing on the rebound bounce after the goal, but that looks tricky. And the PoP sections, man I could never grab those dumb ropes! If my brother could grab the dumb ropes, but I couldn't, and didn't tell me because lol he'd lose his advantage, I'd have bitten him. (and sadly, that's not another Pyros is a cat joke, at the age when I was playing SNES, I had a "you made me angry now I bite" phase.)

Though I think Jon just found it too funny that Egrapt was getting mad in a "u mad bro?" to bother telling him in an attempt to milk the moment for all it was worth.

Consider SpeedRunsLive.com, where if you're in a race and one of the other racers shows off a skip or time saver in Zelda 64 and you ask how to do it, they'll take the time to actually explain it to you, and sometimes even coach you through it. Faster times occur best when there are two people competing, who both know all the rules and tricks, and pass new discoveries on as they find them.

[Aldurin]

Relevant to the originally thread title, and with better video-makers to talk about. (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?feature=g-user-u&list=PLDE28F0BC5352EF76)

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Everything I know about Versus play I learned in TF2:

1) There's a difference between being a "tryhard" and trying to achieve a basic level of competence in gameplay. Pub players seem take a perverse delight in ignoring the last half of that statement.

2) If you're on Payload offense and your team ends up rolling multiple Snipers before even a single Heavy, fuck everything and roll something you can at least goof around with because ain't no way in hell you getting past the first point.

3) Dr. (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Dead_Ringer) Enfor (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Enforcer)cicle (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Spy-cicle) spies can rot in a salt desert at high noon while being mauled by rabid fireweasels.

4) The only good spy is the one topping the scoreboard on the team opposing yours.

5) Seriously, fuck the Spycicle, like goddamn almighty fuckit.

6) While we're at it, fuck the Red Tape Recorder as well.

7) Fuckit, does anyone really like Spies anyways? I sure don't. Maybe Snake can nuke France after he's done with Boston.

8) Make sure to get Luxembourg as well. Bastards have had it too easy for too long.

9) Shyria needs to be told when to stop making lists. And to stop talking in the third person.

10) And to maybe not drink and post.

[Arcanum]

Spies are great. I should play more TF2 and regain my spy skills, but the last time I tried all my backstabs missed. Every single one.

Also #10 on your list is the worst advice.

[Solid Snake]

Maybe Snake can nuke France after he's done with Boston.

...

...You mean Baltimore, right?
You mean Baltimore.

[Loyal]

Boston is the exact opposite of the place I want to nuke.

D'aww, shucks.

[Ramary]

I become too much of a massive cunt (cuntzerker if you will) when I play games to even think of honorable play unless its an organized thing (melee only, or when I use to do "fight clubs" in the Jedi Knight games). Otherwise I will get my enjoyment, even if it is to the determent or benefit of the other players.

I am certain most of you know that by now though. I swear I try, but I am just too much a child of the Ruinous Powers to do so.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

...

...You mean Baltimore, right?
You mean Baltimore.

I refer back to point 10 on my earlier list.

[Ryong]

In Gunz, there were certain cheap, cheapy cheap means of victory

Which was basically half the game or more? I mean, I don't know when you played, but in my time you'd see knife shotgunners who you can't block or dodge against and if you get too close you get knocked into the ground with the knife attack and then get your head shot off. Alternatively, fuckers k-styling to snipe you from outside of the map or to simply literally rain swords on your head. Not to mention people abusing how lag fucked up the game and then you'd see some dude at the top of the scoreboard who, for everyone, was just standing in base except people on the opposite team would just die for no reason.

Yes I hate GunZ, why do you ask?

[Bells]

i too came to hate the Gunz... i mean, if you have a high Ping, Knifers are lethal. On the other hand, nothing would be cooler than killing a knifer with a Sword Uppercut. The Ultimate Noob Pride Breaker.

The game was fun really early on, but MAN that game is a bitch... Laggy, Buggy, Cheaters and Macroers all around up and down and about... and you better pay up if you want the tools to win...

I'm glad i ditch it, but also really glad to see it right before it went to shit...

Nowadays i only play games that are competitive while already being on the shit pile, like Ghost Recon Online, Planetside 2 and Medieval Warfare

[Magus]

After Snake nukes Baton Rouge, I think he should focus on Switzerland. They've had it too good for too long!

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I don't mind a bit of dirty play so long as it's kept to abusing the game's rules and coding and everyone's cool with it.

Otherwise I just play as fair as possible. Often times not exploiting a player's error or only using the weaker/less broken weapons/character.

Unless someone's being an asshole, then it's time to get cheap and bust out the broken gear/character.

[Bells]

i never understood the "final destination, no items!" stuff... stripping the game down to it's bare bones to somehow impose "only skill matters" always seemed silly to me.

You wouldnt play Powerstone without the powerstones.

You wouldnt play bomberman without items

how you expect me to play Smash Bros without tomatoes?!

[Loyal]

stripping the game down to it's bare bones to somehow impose "only skill matters"Kinda answered your own question.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

When they play poker they should give everyone the same hand, bridgestyle, so only skill matters.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

i never understood the "final destination, no items!" stuff... stripping the game down to it's bare bones to somehow impose "only skill matters" always seemed silly to me.

You wouldnt play Powerstone without the powerstones.

You wouldnt play bomberman without items

how you expect me to play Smash Bros without tomatoes?!

Actually Final Destination itself is unfairly balanced in favor of characters with reach and projectile attacks because there's no cover.

[Aldurin]

Actually Final Destination itself is unfairly balanced in favor of characters with reach and projectile attacks because there's no cover.

Not even that, Jigglypuff fucking rocks that stage given the large amount of empty space to maximize air maneuvers and the only strip of land is a perfect place to do a falling Double Edge. Meanwhile all of the fat characters (read: everyone that isn't Jigglypuff) are stuck huffing and puffing in exhaustion while they try to keep up in the midair fights.

[PyrosNine]

True skill in a Smash Bros is being able to stay on top of the chaos and being able to react quickly to every new variable thrown in the mix-

The random nature makes victory not always assured, but a decent player will always win at least 70% of the time against a lesser skilled player.

[Arcanum]

I always played Smash Bros with healing items turned off because healing is for cowards who are too afraid to tough it out with 170% damage against their freshly respawned foe. Plus getting kills at high damage % is way more exciting than running around hoping for a health item (which is what commonly happened with my jerk friends that prompted the no healing rule).

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Smash Bros is all about controlling the item drop spaces and making good use of items. It'd be dumb with no items.