League of Legends: ARAM edition

[Yumil]

Ok, It's been forever since anyone has made a League related post and since the last update has made it even more fun to play, I decided to remedy that. I'll do a quick faq for those not in the know(spoiler tag style)

League of Legends is a free to play MOBA. You play in an rts style game, controlling one character with unique abilities, along with a team of players to kill the other team and destroy their objectives while protecting your own. There are a number of modes and over 100 characters to play as.

For the most part it has. There are still toxic players, but with new features such as honor(a system where players can earn ribbons for being honored by other players), tribunal(a system where a group of players review reports on other players and decide whether or not they should be punished...with bans being reviewed by RIOT), and the upcoming alert system(warns players when they get reported more than normal to help prevent a bad day ruining your account) they are working on improving the community.

Classic(Map: Summoner's Rift) is a 5v5 classic MOBA game where you fight in three lanes trying to take turrets down in order to get to the enemies base and destroy it.

Dominion(Map: Crystal Scar) is a 5v5 domination type game where you have to hold more turrets than the enemy for a longer time. It's the red headed step child mode and Riot doesn't really support it too much anymore. I find it fun, but most people treat it like a death match.

Twisted Treeline(Map: Twisted Treeline) is a 3v3 classic MOBA game on two lanes. It's had a rerelease recently and is quite fun.

ARAM(Map: Howling Abyss) is All Random All Mid on a one lane map. Every randoms a champion and is pitted 5v5 on a one lane map. No backing to base, no regen on the summoning platform, can only buy items on respawn. It's super fun and casual. This was added as a matchmaking queue this last patch when they added the map as well.

Anywho with that out of the way, I feel the game is better than ever with the new changes and how Riot is handling the pro scene. They've added tiered rank, added a challenger tier to qualify for team tourneyments, and even host the LCS, which is basically pro league play with seeded spots as the rewards for doing well. Really fun stuff to watch, almost like watching football(both american and soccer).

Also they added ARAM, which by it's very nature is laid back. It's team fights the whole game with people playing god knows what. The past couple days have been the most fun I've had with League in a good long while. It's cool that Riot listened to players and made a popular custom game type a supported matchmaker queue with it's own new map.

If you want to play some ARAM, add Quasari in LoL. I don't mind playing with anyone. I may be horrible, but you know what, so are the vast majority of players.

[Arcanum]

League has to do three things if I am to ever go back to it.

1) Do something to make the meta less stagnant. The meta really only changes with every season update, which is basically once a year. The fact that lanes are all the same length means you end up with mirror matchups 90% of the time, and it's a duel to see who's the better bruiser top, or AP mid, or the better support/carry combo bot. And the only way to influence these mirror matchups (beyond the players in the duel) is ganks. Boring.

2) Fix the rune system. Nobody buys T1 or T2 runes. There's no point. And you can't get T3 runes until you're level 20. Why? What's the damn point? Cut out the shit nobody uses. Give someone the option to specialize their favorite champion from the start, instead of forcing new players to hoard their RP (or use it to unlock champs they might be interested in). Keep the level restrictions on rune slots to stop those players from getting a massive advantage over others who want to spend their RP on new champions, and you're good to go.

3) Offer a wider selection of free champions in each rotation. The champion pool is freaking massive in League, so the amount of free champions should reflect that. It also gives more opportunity for people to try before they buy. Alternatively, add a trial option so players can try out a champion for two or three games. Add a limit to the trial option, such as 5 champion trials in a week, or 10 trial games, and you easily prevent people only using their trials instead of spending RP/IP.

So yeah, until League does those three things I'll be happily playing Dota 2 and Smite.

[Bells]

is the player base still completely shitty?

Cause, i jumped from that game when my own team started berating me cause i didn't knew what were the optimal jungle spots...

I mean, i'm not averse to Competitive gaming (Hell, come play with me on Ghost Recon Online. i usually dominate the chat pointing out enemy movement and positioning my team...), but i like a game that has the option of me playing casually for fun. For me, a game that only has a especific way to play, to win, and the only variant is luck and lag... i dunno, sounds pretty boring to me.

[Yumil]

League has to do three things if I am to ever go back to it.

1) Do something to make the meta less stagnant. The meta really only changes with every season update, which is basically once a year. The fact that lanes are all the same length means you end up with mirror matchups 90% of the time, and it's a duel to see who's the better bruiser top, or AP mid, or the better support/carry combo bot. And the only way to influence these mirror matchups (beyond the players in the duel) is ganks. Boring.
There has been some meta breaking in the LCS, though generally it doesn't happen in ranked solo queue. The Korean/Tawainese metas aren't quite as stagnant and since they won last year, it's been slowly changing in Europe and NA.
2) Fix the rune system. Nobody buys T1 or T2 runes. There's no point. And you can't get T3 runes until you're level 20. Why? What's the damn point? Cut out the shit nobody uses. Give someone the option to specialize their favorite champion from the start, instead of forcing new players to hoard their RP (or use it to unlock champs they might be interested in). Keep the level restrictions on rune slots to stop those players from getting a massive advantage over others who want to spend their RP on new champions, and you're good to go.
T2 runes are worthless. T1 runes are 1/15 the cost of T3 at 55% of the power. They are perfect for people who don't have the IP to buy a full T3 set and still need runes as they are so cheap.

3) Offer a wider selection of free champions in each rotation. The champion pool is freaking massive in League, so the amount of free champions should reflect that. It also gives more opportunity for people to try before they buy. Alternatively, add a trial option so players can try out a champion for two or three games. Add a limit to the trial option, such as 5 champion trials in a week, or 10 trial games, and you easily prevent people only using their trials instead of spending RP/IP.

So yeah, until League does those three things I'll be happily playing Dota 2 and Smite.

Eh, I don't find the champion rotations too weak. They do 10 champions a week, with new champions showing up the third week after their launch. There are enough cheap IP champions to increase your pool that waiting for a champ to hit the rotation before you buy shouldn't be too bad. Yes, they removed Karma, Twitch, and Eve in the past from the rotation before their remakes due to how hated they were, but I don't think their system is too bad. Dota 2 is certainly better having all characters unlocked and you just pay for cosmetics, but I don't see too much wrong with LoLs method.

s the player base still completely shitty?

Cause, i jumped from that game when my own team started berating me cause i didn't knew what were the optimal jungle spots...

I mean, i'm not averse to Competitive gaming (Hell, come play with me on Ghost Recon Online. i usually dominate the chat pointing out enemy movement and positioning my team...), but i like a game that has the option of me playing casually for fun. For me, a game that only has a especific way to play, to win, and the only variant is luck and lag... i dunno, sounds pretty boring to me.
There are still toxic players, but Tribunal and the Honor system has helped tremendously. Usually if you tell them beforehand that you are learning they are a bit better at reacting to noob plays. Just as long as you don't do it in ranked you are fine. Theres still the problem of smurf accounts of people that were recently banned from being toxic, but ignoring/reporting them is the best way to do that. They'll get a lifetime ban eventually.

[Arcanum]

is the player base still completely shitty?
Yes.

Cause, i jumped from that game when my own team started berating me cause i didn't knew what were the optimal jungle spots...

That's another big problem I have with LoL. If you don't adhere to the meta you are instantly the spawn of satan. Even though most of the players in the lower levels don't know why the current meta is effective.

Eh, I don't find the champion rotations too weak. They do 10 champions a week, with new champions showing up the third week after their launch. There are enough cheap IP champions to increase your pool that waiting for a champ to hit the rotation before you buy shouldn't be too bad. Yes, they removed Karma, Twitch, and Eve in the past from the rotation before their remakes due to how hated they were, but I don't think their system is too bad. Dota 2 is certainly better having all characters unlocked and you just pay for cosmetics, but I don't see too much wrong with LoLs method.

The thing is, I love to hop between characters. For me it's the easiest way to learn what each champion/hero does. It's why I've almost exclusively been playing Single Draft and All Random in Dota 2.

So in LoL my understanding of champions is severely crippled because I can't really hop around and play different ones (doesn't help when people freak the fuck out when you don't want to mid as a predominately mid champ because you're not confident with the guy you're playing for the first time). And that just discourages (or rather, encourages me to play more Dota) me even more because I have no fucking clue what's going on in team fights.

[Yumil]

Yes.

That's another big problem I have with LoL. If you don't adhere to the meta you are instantly the spawn of satan. Even though most of the players in the lower levels don't know why the current meta is effective.
The ones in the lower levels yelling about meta are the smurfs. Ignore them. I've played ap bot, ad top, etc lower levels and have done fine on my smurf I play with friends. Though if you play ranked in Bronze/Silver expect to facepalm a lot. It's better in high Gold/Diamond, but man Bronze/Silver are slaves to whatever is popular at higher elo.


The thing is, I love to hop between characters. For me it's the easiest way to learn what each champion/hero does. It's why I've almost exclusively been playing Single Draft and All Random in Dota 2.

So in LoL my understanding of champions is severely crippled because I can't really hop around and play different ones (doesn't help when people freak the fuck out when you don't want to mid as a predominately mid champ because you're not confident with the guy you're playing for the first time). And that just discourages (or rather, encourages me to play more Dota) me even more because I have no fucking clue what's going on in team fights.
I'm actually the same way, but now I got quite a few of the champs so it's not quite a big deal to me anymore. You can take a look at how the rotation has gone recently here (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion_Rotation_Schedule_(Season_Three)). ARAM is pretty good for this sentiment though:)

[Revising Ocelot]

If anyone wants to play this Doter thing I have... 40 invites or so? Yeah.

Lol @ Lol.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

The ones in the lower levels yelling about meta are the smurfs. Ignore them. I've played ap bot, ad top, etc lower levels and have done fine on my smurf I play with friends. Though if you play ranked in Bronze/Silver expect to facepalm a lot. It's better in high Gold/Diamond, but man Bronze/Silver are slaves to whatever is popular at higher elo.

Isn't the problem less that they're shouting and more that it's possible for them to report you for going against standard meta and have you probated for it?

[Yumil]

Isn't the problem less that they're shouting and more that it's possible for them to report you for going against standard meta and have you probated for it?

You cant be banned for not playing the meta. They can report you, just unless you are seriously trolling(six pairs of boots, ungodly amount of deaths, etc) the report means nothing.

From http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/faq/
11. Can I be banned for not playing the meta?

Players are not banned by the Tribunal for not playing the meta; they are banned for consistently creating negative experiences for others.
We have data suggesting that reviewers of Tribunal cases are very thoughtful and accurate in their verdicts, so if you were reported for not playing the meta but were being a positive player, you can expect to be judged fairly.
In general, players should feel empowered to play what they want and to try new strategies; however, this does not give you a license to be disrespectful or rude to your fellow gamers.

So as long as you aren't running into towers, cursing everyone, or just being an ass, the Tribunal is told not to punish you. It does happen on occasion(as any crowd judgement can convict an innocent man), but Riot will re-investigate if you feel you were wrongly punished.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Fair enough. I do suppose you'd end up hearing more about horror stories than successes out of something like the Tribunal system, no matter what the actual ratio of good decisions to bad was. I should have thought about that more before making a judgement.

[Yumil]

Fair enough. I do suppose you'd end up hearing more about horror stories than successes out of something like the Tribunal system, no matter what the actual ratio of good decisions to bad was. I should have thought about that more before making a judgement.
Quite a few of the horror stories end up being justified punishments, just harder to see or the person posting it was focusing on one or two games in the reform card instead of the bigger picture. Just having one game being toxic is enough for a punishment. Also, the tribunal stuff misses out from not having pregame chat or postgame chat. In fact, I say people tend to get pardoned wrongly more often than punished wrongly.

However I have seen some wrongly punished players, but when you start talking permabans, which is where people really start crying, one of two things have happened. Either they've been to the tribunal so many times that their punishment has ramped up from warnings, chatbans, and multiple time bans to get there. Or Riot saw something so horrible that they outright permabanned them(usually in the pre/post game chats, which aren't included on tribunal).

[synkr0nized]

Oh man a specific map for -arom? That's nice, actually, as all-mid can be amusing (something I used to partake in at LANs with WC III dotes).

Does LoL have WTF mode? That shit's great sometimes. Of course, it's only for fun.



I never did like the whole idea of runes and your summoner != your chosen hero in LoL. I also don't like that you have to pay to unlock them, but a F2P hybrid has to make money somehow.

The last time I dusted off my account, my summoner's name had been changed to gibberish to free up the name due to my inactivity. So I have no idea what its name is now (I did change it to a name again), as I uninstalled the game again after not touching it for a couple weeks, but I seem to also recall I had no levels (not 100% sure I ever had any, though).

[Yumil]

Oh man a specific map for -arom? That's nice, actually, as all-mid can be amusing (something I used to partake in at LANs with WC III dotes).

Does LoL have WTF mode? That shit's great sometimes. Of course, it's only for fun.



I never did like the whole idea of runes and your summoner != your chosen hero in LoL. I also don't like that you have to pay to unlock them, but a F2P hybrid has to make money somehow.

The last time I dusted off my account, my summoner's name had been changed to gibberish to free up the name due to my inactivity. So I have no idea what its name is now (I did change it to a name again), as I uninstalled the game again after not touching it for a couple weeks, but I seem to also recall I had no levels (not 100% sure I ever had any, though).
Unfortunately there is no WTF mode. They are going to have another account name clean up soon, though if your name gets deleted itll just ask you create a new one.

Also, at least you can only buy runes with ingame currency. You have to play to earn them(though you can buy boosts and you can pay for the pages for more variety). I don't like the rune system either, probably woulda been fine with just masteries, but meh. I like customization as much as the next guy, but there comes a point where it's just tedious.

[synkr0nized]

Also, at least you can only buy runes with ingame currency. You have to play to earn them(though you can buy boosts and you can pay for the pages for more variety).

Oi, that's a good point. I swear I knew that, but that post definitely was written as if you paid real money for them. As far as I recall the runes are all tied to leveling your account, and the purchases are all for heroes and their gears.


If you were looking to "sell" this game to new players, what would be some of the key features of gameplay that you would highlight? Pick, say, three of them.

I am curious if my impression of LoL is fair or if I rely too much on comparing it to the original.
Edit: and I don't mean this in an "I will laugh at whatever gets posted or try to refute it" but more was just hoping to add to some discussion of features that might make it more appealing to folks new to the style of game.

[Arcanum]

Some LoL features that make it very "new player" friendly, just off the top of my head from what I remember:


You don't lose gold when you die.
Both top and bot lanes are the same length so one lane isn't more at risk of being ganked than the other. (bit of a double-edged sword though, because that means you can't stick a new player in the safe lane)
You can't deny creeps, removing a layer of micro-management while also not allowing a decent player to completely shut down a new player.
Very few "active" items, again removing a layer of micro allowing a new player to focus more on skills.
A shop with great filters, allowing players to quickly find what they want by just ticking a few boxes (this was probably added since you last played synk), which is a HUGE step up from the random symbols and columns in DotA's shop. (Although DotA's integrated player-made guides is something that LoL should definitely copy because it's an amazing feature).

[Yumil]

Some LoL features that make it very "new player" friendly, just off the top of my head from what I remember:


You don't lose gold when you die.
Both top and bot lanes are the same length so one lane isn't more at risk of being ganked than the other. (bit of a double-edged sword though, because that means you can't stick a new player in the safe lane)
You can't deny creeps, removing a layer of micro-management while also not allowing a decent player to completely shut down a new player.
Very few "active" items, again removing a layer of micro allowing a new player to focus more on skills.
A shop with great filters, allowing players to quickly find what they want by just ticking a few boxes (this was probably added since you last played synk), which is a HUGE step up from the random symbols and columns in DotA's shop. (Although DotA's integrated player-made guides is something that LoL should definitely copy because it's an amazing feature).

Pretty much this, but Ill add a few things.

Shop has a pretty good list of recommended items for each champion, including offensive and defensive options. Not just a final build like they used to. You may also customize these recommended options either through config files or a 3rd party tool to further help yourself(Riot is working on making it easier)

B teleports back to base not requiring you to buy tps or fight using the courier. Its much easier having that as a natural skill.

Smart pings. By ctrl+clicking then dragging a direction you may use any number of pings(enemy missing, On my way!, danger, notice this, and need help here). It generally communicates more with less.

[Ryong]

DotA 2 has recommended items for each hero and you can make and share your guides in-game too.

LoL's map is smaller than DotA and as such you have that B teleport back to base - it's also on a 5 minute cooldown and it's only back to base as opposed to DotA's tps to buildings.

DotA 2 also has a ping and "draw on map" feature and a customizable set of lines for you to press a button and hold a direction to say.

I'd talk about the bush, but I'm not sure exactly how does it work.

I know that LoL has no form of magic immunity whatsoever, that it doesn't have the same kind of roles as DotA and some are downplayed - lot less junglers, jungling is a lot harder, can't have a support that heals or helps with denying since no such thing as denying, getting rid of the notion of caster heroes who are strong early game but can't keep up by having skill damage scale...

[Yumil]

B has no cd, the summoner spell teleport has a long cd and allows you to teleport onto friendly creeps, buildings, and wards.

Summoners rift, dotas map, and hons map are the same size. Dota iis character models are larger though and make the game feel zoomed in if you are used to hon or lol, though it makes it easier to last hit/deny that way(i find it a bit cramped, but i play lol).

Stats are a bit more simplified. There are no agi, str, or int based heroes, and stats generally only do one thing. There's ad which increases damage on auto attacks(and some skills scale off of) and then theres ap which most skills scale off of. AD scales better overall, while AP is there to make sure skills can somewhat keep up after being maxed.

Basically any character can be like a str/agi/int char from dota based on the items they build. Anyone can build like a hypercarry would and still deal tons of autoattack damage, but certain champions kits make one focus better, not what their primary stat is.

The bush is a whole different animal. Its like trees in that they break line of sight, but different in that they provide a sort of stealth inside them. Im not sure which i like better. Sneak attacks are easier with bushes, but trees are a lot more skill oriented.

[Ryong]

My mistake on the B, then, but, again, it won't allow you to go back to lane or to go to another lane.

Summoner's Rift is around 13k units in size, DotA's map is just a bit more than 15k and both games have comparable movement speeds - but DotA also has turn rates, which make it a bit slower. Bases are also bigger in LoL. So, yes, the map is smaller.

DotA also lets you build like a hypercarry on anyone, fuck, I've seen people going full damage on treant protector, but shit varies. I also feel that having the stats gives more variety, otherwise a lot could just be simplified into EHP.

Isn't the deal with bushes that you can't see inside it unless you're in it?

Also, LoL no longer has height differences, apparently?

[synkr0nized]

I was kind of naively hoping that would have led to discussion of just what might make LoL appealing that didn't directly bring up DotA or make comparisons, but I suppose that is more or less impossible.

For what it's worth I prefer DotA's method of play over LoL's.

[Geminex]

I know that LoL has no form of magic immunity whatsoever, that it doesn't have the same kind of roles as DotA and some are downplayed - lot less junglers, jungling is a lot harder, can't have a support that heals or helps with denying since no such thing as denying, getting rid of the notion of caster heroes who are strong early game but can't keep up by having skill damage scale...


Couple of things.
First, magic immunity is incremental. You can build resistance to magic damage (MR) just like you can build resistance to physical damage (Armor). This adds a good bit of depth to the game, I feel, as the damage enemy casters deal to you isn't necessarily straight and true, instead letting you negate a significant amount of it.

The fact that your enemies' resistance to magic scales with gold also means that many caster heroes are totally early game. A prime example of this would be leblanc, a burst caster with very strong base values, but who falls off later on because she doesn't scale with gold so well. She scales with gold a little, but casters generally scale worse with gold than autoattackers. So no, there are quite a few casters who are strong early, but fall off late.

Healing supports are totally a thing, sustain is one of the many things that make your support valuable. See champs like Sona, Soraka, Kayle, Nidalee, all very popular and useful. Particularly Sona. Generally you will also want some degree of crowd control (like slows or stuns) on a support to allow your carry to go aggressive, but saying that supports can't heal is patently false.

There's no denying, that's true, but I played DoTA, and I honestly always hated denying. Lets experienced players shut down newbies far too easily, and slows down gameplay. If you wanna deny your enemy gold and EXP, play aggressive and zone him. Much more interesting. This is also what aggressive supports do, they help you get an edge in lane and force your enemy to have to get past them every time they want to lasthit. There's room for a lot of variety in what the support does, overall, long as it helps their carry. Some pro teams have taken to playing burst casters as supports, just to be able to put on that much more pressure.

And as someone who plays jungler, jungling is perfectly feasible and a hugely important role in the game. Junglers are the one mobile role, and a lot of games are decided simply by how well the jungler uses his time. The creep camps are a bit tough at early levels, but that's no end of the world if you bring the right setup re: runes and masteries.

Anyway.

I used to play DoTA and liked it very much. Now I play LoL and enjoy it as well. I am not trying to claim that one's better than the other, here.

But given that much of what you're saying about LoL is pretty much entirely false, maybe you should do some reading up on the game before actually talking about it?

[Odjn]

DotA 2 has recommended items for each hero and you can make and share your guides in-game too.

LoL's map is smaller than DotA and as such you have that B teleport back to base - it's also on a 5 minute cooldown and it's only back to base as opposed to DotA's tps to buildings.

DotA 2 also has a ping and "draw on map" feature and a customizable set of lines for you to press a button and hold a direction to say.

I'd talk about the bush, but I'm not sure exactly how does it work.

I know that LoL has no form of magic immunity whatsoever, that it doesn't have the same kind of roles as DotA and some are downplayed - lot less junglers, jungling is a lot harder, can't have a support that heals or helps with denying since no such thing as denying, getting rid of the notion of caster heroes who are strong early game but can't keep up by having skill damage scale...

A lot of those features LoL has too. You can actually quick ping with a key+click and if you hold it down a second, use a few other pings with different meanings as well.

There are actually quite a few junglers, and it's not as hard as it's made out to be. Ganks can be difficult, sometimes, and not every champion can easily jungle, but there are a lot of junglers who can also perform in other lanes; there are bruiser junglers, carry junglers, tank/initiator junglers, ap carry junglers...

Supports with heals? Well, one support is based off healing her allies, and others have mini heals or one heal. Kayle, Taric, and Alistar off the top of my head all have some form of healing.

There are a whole lot of caster heroes, both scaling on AD and AP. Off the top of my head, Kha'Zix, LeBlanc, Pantheon, Talon, and Zed all fit that profile!

---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

Actually Gem, you main jungle too? I'm playing a lot of sejuani at the moment.

[Geminex]

Actually Gem, you main jungle too? I'm playing a lot of sejuani at the moment.

I'm still pretty new, only just hit 30. I probably won't go into ranked at all, but Jungle/Top are pretty much the lanes I know best ATM. I tend to play champs that're more farm-intensive like Jax or Cho, though I've been learning Mundo and Amumu a bit more recently.

I've also bought a whole bunch of new champs recently, just to have a bit of a larger arsenal, and I've been just playing a bunch of arams to get to know those a bit better.

I'm Geminex on NA, btw, and anyone's welcome to add me. Again, I'm not really one for super competitive play, but I'm generally open for a friendly ARAM, TT or SR.

[Ryong]

Couple of things.
First, magic immunity is incremental. You can build resistance to magic damage (MR) just like you can build resistance to physical damage (Armor). This adds a good bit of depth to the game, I feel, as the damage enemy casters deal to you isn't necessarily straight and true, instead letting you negate a significant amount of it.


You have magic resistance items in DotA too, sure, there's a lot less, - cloak, hood, pipe - but then there's also Linkens and the whole magic immunity mechanic. Lots of things also decrease the enemy magic resist, just as there are items that decrease enemy armor, but I suppose LoL also has those.


I used to play DoTA and liked it very much. Now I play LoL and enjoy it as well. I am not trying to claim that one's better than the other, here.

But given that much of what you're saying about LoL is pretty much entirely false, maybe you should do some reading up on the game before actually talking about it?

Aside from getting wrong that healing is less prominent and getting the two teleports mixed up I don't see what I've said that was false.

A lot of those features LoL has too. You can actually quick ping with a key+click and if you hold it down a second, use a few other pings with different meanings as well.


I was answering Yumil's mention of said features.


There are actually quite a few junglers, and it's not as hard as it's made out to be. Ganks can be difficult, sometimes, and not every champion can easily jungle, but there are a lot of junglers who can also perform in other lanes; there are bruiser junglers, carry junglers, tank/initiator junglers, ap carry junglers...


I've heard jungling in LoL is much more strict than DotA's, that you have to follow a specific pattern or your teammates will be assholes. This was even mentioned earlier in the thread as being a thing.

Supports with heals? Well, one support is based off healing her allies, and others have mini heals or one heal. Kayle, Taric, and Alistar off the top of my head all have some form of healing.


Most heals I've checked feel like the healing is just a smaller part of a buff, because LoL is crazy about buffs.


There are a whole lot of caster heroes, both scaling on AD and AP. Off the top of my head, Kha'Zix, LeBlanc, Pantheon, Talon, and Zed all fit that profile!

The issue is that in DotA, heroes are either early, mid or late game, with some few being kind of good at all points. LoL has everyone scale, even if some start out better than others.

[Yumil]

The issue is that in DotA, heroes are either early, mid or late game, with some few being kind of good at all points. LoL has everyone scale, even if some start out better than others.

It's there in lol too. Mages generally scale best early to mid, assassins mid, bruisers mid to late, ad carrys are typically late.

There are some exceptions. Some good examples of this are Ezreal who tends to be better early-mid but falls off as a carry late game, Kayle who can build quite a few ways and each build shines at different times, and tristana who is omgwtfbbq op late game, but only if she can get through her abyssmal early-mid game. Theres also Urgot and Yorick who are total lane bullies that fall of mid-late.

Just because abilities can scale doesn't mean they all scale well. AoE abilities in particular usually have horrid scaling along with skills that do multiple things(kayles heal that is also a speed buff).

[Geminex]

Yeah, what yumil said. That's a point I've tried to explain above, maybe it didn't come across? Not all champions can make the same amount of use of gold. Support champions often have weak ability power ratios, and rely on CC and utility spells for the bulk of their power. Gold has little use for them directly. AD carries, on the other hand, when at full build, can kill entire teams in a matter of seconds, because between crit chance, attack speed, and raw damage items, they can build up massive amounts of DPS. There's a defnite divide, and the fact that all champs scale doesn't mean they scale equally well. That's one of the things you should really read up on, I think.

[Odjn]

As an example, Pantheon and LeBlanc both scale well on paper but the nature of their skill set means that late game they tend to stink. However, both are notorious for their early game lane dominance; Pantheon tends to crap on anyone without significant sustain, for example.

[Yumil]

Really, dota/dota ii is a fine game. Valve has done a wonderful job refining the dota map into a standalone game. I have nothing but respect for the dota community.

LoL being the same genre and being based off the same map brings a lot of simularity. Its the same as dota in as many ways that they differ. I dont think we need to focus on this. Many notions will compare, such as my upcoming one, but Im not asking you to choose.

The main difference is that LoL tries to streamline the formula while dota ii embraces it. Both bring a lot of depth, but mechanics wise LoL is easier to pick up.

Being in Steam Payed/invite beta, Dotas community is a lot more welcoming. I have a feeling that may change over time as HoNs community was similar in its infancy and is pretty bad now. Riot is actively trying to fix the toxicness in their community and have made great strides towards that goal, however there are still toxic players. Dotas community is still better overall.

Finally, LoLs esport side is a lot more mature. Riot is estabilishing a brand and with their weekly league play is much more easily accessible than their competitors. I very much like watching the streams. Last time I checked DOTA tourney streams took a payperview approach, which while Im sure are absolutely amazing to watch really shuts me out as I can get much of the same experience for free through lol. Correct me if they no longer do this or Im mistaken about it.

Anywho, both offer great games. This thread is more about why you should give it a try, I dont want you to quit dota for it, just know that its come a long way since season 1.

[Ryong]

I wouldn't know about the tourney streams - I think you can buy tickets which net you a courier or some such, but I believe there are other places to watch.

Also, I assure you, the community of WC3 DotA, DotA2 and LoL are terrible, no matter what. WC3 DotA had people being crazy assholes who left games in the most asshole way possible ( if you just left the game through it, it'd be fine, but no, people would alt+f4 or unplug their internet, just because it made everyone in the room go through a minute of waiting ). DotA2 I don't play with Brazilians because they're dickwads who taunt you, losing or winning. I've had several friends who quit DotA to play LoL because they weren't happy with how everyone was a dickwad only to find that LoL had different kinds of dickwads and people giving up from matches because someone did something wrong in their view.

[Yumil]

XdN67NuhMW4

Got to love moments like that.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I've never seen a DOTA 2 tourney be pay to watch on the browser based streams. You do pay for a ticket to watch games in game though.

[Yumil]

I've never seen a DOTA 2 tourney be pay to watch on the browser based streams. You do pay for a ticket to watch games in game though.

That is good to know.

[Arcanum]

So against my better judgement I let a friend convince me to give LoL another try. I figured sure, why not, I can play around a bit with friends for fun. Turns out I just found out more things I dislike about the game.

1) Bushes are dumb. Like, really really dumb. It's like they didn't want to have variable height terrain, but still wanted something similar, so they put bushes fucking everywhere. And on that note, the lack of a height mechanic is extremely dumb when it comes to base defense since you can't see past your base wall from the inside.

2) Holy shit I can't see anything. The radius you can see around you is tiny. It's like permanent Dota 2 night time. So the only way to counter that is to buy a fuckton of wards. Also, three minute ward duration? What the shit?

3) Why is "armor penetration" or "magic penetration" not a filter option in the store? (or am I just blind?)

4) Why the flying fuck can't I look at another champ's skills mid-game by clicking on that champ? You show me their hp/mana, their items, their buffs and debuffs, and their stats, so how hard is it to add their skills to that so someone can see what they are going up against? Instead it's "oh you haven't played against this champ before, time to play the guessing game and you will only know the answers when you are killed by those specific skills."

On a positive note, Malzahar and Xerath are extremely fun to play.

Back on a negative note, who in the flying fuck designed Nidalee's spear throw? Because that thing is broken to all hell.

[Odjn]

I loathe the spear throw, but you get used to it.

[Yumil]

Bushes are odd. You get used to them and their locations. Height matters to a small amount, as it still hinders vision.

Vision is a very important part of the game. A lot of the focus is on who has better knowledge of whats going on, which is why wards and junglers are so important.

I dont remember a tab for it, but you can search for it with the search bar. Try searching pen. They need to add that tab:O

4 is a good point. I don't have anything I can do to refute it.

About Nid's spears. It becomes easier to dodge as you get used to it. They do the most damage at max range, so most nids try to hit from the furthest distance. With the speed of the projectile it makes it pretty easy to dodge. Since league is pretty focused on skill shots, you get a lot of practice dodging as you play. Course then you get into players reading your movements and still landing the shot, but it is a lot more fun to dodge or be read and "dodge" into it, than if everything were targeted.

EDIT:
With the recent patch they added custom recommended item builds via the game client. Now you can put up your own quick chart for items for each champion without knowing how to do it manually.