Dragon Age Inquisition: Snake was Right, y'all gonna Love this Game

[Solid Snake]

So to the not-surprise of Snake but to the incredible surprise of everyone else, the third Dragon Age title (http://kotaku.com/11-things-you-should-know-about-dragon-age-inquisitio-1657127952) looks phenomenal and well worth everyone's time.

That being said, I've been looking everywhere for information regarding the last-gen versions of the title to determine whether it makes sense to purchase the PS3 version now, purchase the PC version now, or wait for the PS4 version in 2015. On the one hand, the game will look better on my PC. But I'm wondering how much DA1 and DA2 content I can transfer directly from my DA:O and DA2 saves to Inquisition, and aside from Dragon Age: Keep existing to help folks with new consoles, I can't seem to find any further information.

Like, I want to know: Given that Hawke apparently appears in DA: Inquisition, on my PS3 version, will Hawke on that system share the same appearance as Hawke from my DA2 game? This is a vitally important question for me that'd make the PS3 version a better experience for full immersion, even if it's a step back graphically.

So, let's talk about Inquisition here. The game's action is split among several different open-world areas you can explore, all with wildly different geographies, and representing mostly Orlais but also a fair chunk of Ferelden. You can't really customize your character's history but you can customize race, and you can even play as a Qunari. Your character inherits some kind of crazy magical gift to close green mystical breaches or something and is elevated to a position of prominence while the Templars and Mages are duking it out.

Yet again, Bioware seems decently committed to a diverse cast of characters, including at least one gay man and one lesbian, though as always I'm concerned as to how that diversity is actually going to look in practice, because Bioware's never been as great on the SJ front as they like to imagine they are. But I'm excited that a lot of characters and content from DA:O and DA2 are returning. And, while a lot of reviews seem to take potshots at DA2 for being so 'disappointing', it's good to know that while the gameplay and the aesthetics have been improved, DA2's superbly underrated story still has incredible influence.

So: Anyone else buying this game next week? Who will you be playing as? What system will you be playing it on? (Is Snake the only poor, underpaid sap who might be playing this last-gen?) What characters or plot points intrigue you?

[Revising Ocelot]

I'd like to know how much in DA2 will be relevant to DA3. I don't have DA2 because, y'know, it's DA2.

[Solid Snake]

I'd like to know how much in DA2 will be relevant to DA3. I don't have DA2 because, y'know, it's DA2.

You're missing out on a great game.

[greed]

He's really not.

I'm waiting a week or two after release to make sure they don't screw the pooch again myself. What they've shown looks good but well I got no faith in Bioware not to shit the bed at this point.

[Solid Snake]

At this point I feel like I'm the only one on the battlefield fighting for DA2, with entire armies of gamers marching against me

[Overcast]

As a person who barely registers a lot of the things I'm doing in gameplay when it comes to action trading rpg's I like DS2 because it pleased me in the story department. It was also a reasonable city adventure, which can be a very different feel from the more popular fantasy epic style of cruising across a nation. Regardless I'd have advised you to play DA2 more in the past when it was still fresh, I'd advise now you at least find yourself a lets play so you can fast forward through any parts you find unpleasant and get to the meat and potatoes of the work.

I am variable on my level of faith in this game for just that reason though. My ability to believe in their ability to design levels is on a medium level, pretty much flipping a coin. Game mechanics is much the same. But what scares me is that since a lot of people shit all over DA2 all the time they won't be bringing something like that in the story department to the table. It is looking more and more like the first Dragon Age in my head, which while not terrible was also nothing really new.

Setting my hopes up still though, as a fan of the series.

[Solid Snake]

I am variable on my level of faith in this game for just that reason though. My ability to believe in their ability to design levels is on a medium level, pretty much flipping a coin. Game mechanics is much the same. But what scares me is that since a lot of people shit all over DA2 all the time they won't be bringing something like that in the story department to the table. It is looking more and more like the first Dragon Age in my head, which while not terrible was also nothing really new.


I'm at least encouraged by the fact that Bioware hasn't written DA2 out of the narrative -- Varric and Cassandra are returning as party members, Hawke is back (though I'm still curious as to whether last-gen Hawke can appear anything like the way you designed him/her), and multiple other DA2 characters return in some capacity in supporting roles or cameos. And, the Inquisition storyline is pretty much a direct sequel to DA2 and elaborates a lot upon the unanticipated consequences of DA2's conclusion.

It's true that it's a much more conventional plot in terms of traveling around the world to combat a mysterious sinister force that's threatening the world, and I do find that somewhat unfortunate, but the nature of your role as Inquisitor also has you resolving a lot of comparatively petty disputes. Apparently, you also struggle initially to establish yourself as a reputable leader in a way you really never did in DA: Origins. Finally, it seems that Bioware's still committed to encouraging 'progressive' relationships and character designs in a way that's admittingly half-assed sometimes, but it's certainly better than the default approach of pretending that the LGBT community doesn't exist.

Overall, I'm very encouraged by what I've read in today's reviews, but I can understand the skepticism. The good news if you disliked DA2 is that DA: Inquisition's rave reviews are by and large rejections of the worst aspects of DA2's gameplay and aesthetics, while the good news if you loved DA2 like I did is that the same reviews keep indicating that so much of DA2's story has carried over.

[Krylo]

He's really not.

I'm waiting a week or two after release to make sure they don't screw the pooch again myself. What they've shown looks good but well I got no faith in Bioware not to shit the bed at this point.

DA2 had a lot of issues with the level design (reused dungeons, and enemies spawning in waves, mostly), but everything else was very good, and this really shows in the DLCs where they did a lot to remedy the rushed design on the main game.

Like, OC said, the biggest tragedy of DA2 is that gaming culture rose up in arms to proclaim that they don't ever want to see another character driven story about someone just kind of thrust into the middle of events happening around them and trying to do what's best for them/their family/their friends/possibly the world (depending on player choice).

Nope, only wanna be the hero fighting the world altering/ending massive threat.

[Kim]

DA2 shittalking always bums me out cuz there's no real discussion to be had. "Everything was terrible." "I really liked these parts and here's why." "Well I didn't." That's the good version of the conversation. The bad version is the one where I say I like DA2 and get accused of trolling.

[Overcast]

Also I don't want to be a Qunari unless I can also work to spread the glory of the Qun.

[Solid Snake]

Like, OC said, the biggest tragedy of DA2 is that gaming culture rose up in arms to proclaim that they don't ever want to see another character driven story about someone just kind of thrust into the middle of events happening around them and trying to do what's best for them/their family/their friends/possibly the world (depending on player choice).


On a related note, I really liked how DA2 was ultimately really a story about one of the supporting playable NPC characters (Anders), and Hawke's really just along for the ride, and while you can change minor things about Hawke's relationship with Anders and how Hawke reacts to the big decisions, in the end Anders does what he's going to do regardless of what you say or do about it, and the best you can do is try to pick up the pieces.

It's just cool because so many RPGs obsess over giving your main character the maximum amount of agency. It's nice to actually have a game specify that you really aren't in control, and there's only a very minimal amount of influence you have regarding this one tragic event. The game balances this well by giving you lots of control over other ancillary aspects of the narrative, but the one thing you wish you could change is the one thing that's always outside your grasp.

There's a lot of praise I could heap upon DA2, but that's one of several things I really appreciate about its approach. It kind of stems from a general approach with every character in your party to give them more agency at the expense of Hawke. As much as I loved Mass Effect, that narrative, like most RPGs, was really tailored towards Shepard being such an influential messianic figure that whatever Shepard wanted to happen happened, like your choices literally seemed to alter the personalities of all the characters around him/her. DA2 by contrast gives you characters with personalities and goals that are very much set in stone, and as Hawke you're forced to try to desperately balance competing interests if you want to maintain unity. There's no magic solution to given conflicts that pleases everyone.

I understand that a more reactive role in a storyline destroys our precious power fantasies, but it also made DA2 feel a bit more weighty and realistic.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Story of DA2 was good, gameplay was mechanically lacking in general. Storytelling can only go so far if the mechanics fail to keep up with it. This inversely is true as well. I would've been better off reading a novel that would be called Dragon Age 2 and gotten more enjoyment out of it than slogging through a mechanically uninspired pile of redundancy.

Gonna cast my vote in with waiting to see how DA3 pans out post-release. If mechanically insipid, then Let's Plays will be the course of action.

[Solid Snake]

So apparently even if you purchase a version of Inquisition that's on the same console (or PC) as your DA: O and DA2 data, you can't directly import your old save files into Inquisition, you gotta use this new system called Keep that records all the info manually. (BUT at the very least you can bring back the physical appearances of your Warden and your Hawke...though the Warden option's been pretty glitched lately)

So, it's time to muck around all my old DA: O and DA2 save files to see if I can read up on all the decisions I made.

[Azisien]

Seems inevitable I'll get Inquisition at some point because I've watched several hours of gameplay footage and it looks pretty damn fun.

But I never finished Origins for reasons, and never played DA2 at all, so I have some catching up to do. They're on my list of RPGs to get back into, somewhere in there. I'm more excited for Pillars of Eternity than this, but I'll get there.

[Overcast]

Look we are all excited for Pillars of Eternity, but we have to make due in the meantime. Fill that terrible terrible void of RPG videogames deep in our black inky hearts.

[Solid Snake]

Gonna play this first on PS3 because FUCK GRAPHIXZ, also I want my eyes to bleed or somethin'
I'll let you know how it goes

[Marc v4.0]

If you are playing on PC, make sure to set your Model Quality to High or Ultra. A quirk with the Frostbite engine makes armor shines apply to hair and lips if MQ is set lower. Gives everyone Ken doll glossed hair and lips.

Game is pretty, and walking animations are about the most realistic I've seen in a game.

[Krylo]

If you are playing on PC, make sure to set your Mesh Quality to High or Ultra. A quirk with the Frostbite engine makes armor shines apply to hair and lips if MQ is set lower. Gives everyone Ken doll glossed hair and lips.

Not actually a bug; It's just that waxing your lips and hair is the current fashion trend in Orlais these days.

[Solid Snake]

Gotta say, PS3 version hasn't been terrible so far. I keep waiting for the wheels to fall off the wagon and to force me to buy the PC version, but despite some not-so-great loading times and significant slowdown, and despite the graphics not being hella pretty, it still looks and runs a heck of a lot better than DA: Origins did on the PS3.

It's going to at least hold me through my first playthrough. After that I'm hoping I'll have enough for a PS4. (My desktop was a gaming-quality PC back when I bought it in late 2011, but now its specs are slightly less than PS4 quality, and my hard disc is running out of space for games.)

...aw hell, who am I kidding, the moment this game crashes on me I'm absolutely splurging on the PC version.

I'm also a Dwarf Rogue for some inexplicable reason because, why the hell not? Works well enough for Varric.

[Kim]

I started playing. I'm playing more action style than tactical style. My character is a Qunari woman, and Varick looks more ruggedly handsome than ever.

[Solid Snake]

I started playing. I'm playing more action style than tactical style. My character is a Qunari woman, and Varick looks more ruggedly handsome than ever.

Did you roll Mage, Rogue or Warrior?

I think whenever I get a PS4, my second character will be a female Qunari mage.

[Krylo]

They let you make Qunari mages? Is that for the (extremely) heavy bondage fetishists or what?

[Kim]

I'm a rogue. And if you're a Qunari you aren't one who follows the Qun nor do you live with other Qunari

[Solid Snake]

Yeah I should clarify that my interest in playing a female Qunari mage in the near future is more a "Fuck the system!" fetish than anything else.

Aww yeah, Rogues 4 lyfe. Just don't be a Warrior. Never be a Warrior.

Also it's kind of rare how so far I really don't dislike any of the main cast. Feels very DA2ish to me in that sense. Usually by now I'm really antagonistic towards at least one of the characters (in DA: Origins, it was Morrigan and to a lesser extent Zevran.)

[Overcast]

Dammit what is the point of being a Qunari if I don't have a Qun dialogue option?

[Kim]

Yeah I should clarify that my interest in playing a female Qunari mage in the near future is more a "Fuck the system!" fetish than anything else.

heavy bondage fetish is better tho

[Overcast]

I do kinda want to be the guy with the controlling rod. That would have been an interesting mechanic.

[greed]

So I went ahead and got this after spoiling mysefl on the ending to make sure it didn't go bad like Bioware's last two games and from seeing people whose opinions on DA2 I agree say this was actually good.

So far seems fun though Leliana is as cringe inducing as she was in DAO. Also the lighting during character creation was horrible, what the fuck Bioware? I thought I was giving my character black hair, turns out in the lighting most of the game has it's fairly bright red.

But seeing as that's my only real complaint so far(the lack of a quick start that skips the prologue is also annoying but so standard I can't really fault Bioware) I'm pretty happy.

[Kim]

oh my god iron bull is my favorite

[Krylo]

I got this and had a huge thing typed, but the forums ate it.

Bullet points:

The keep is fantastic. Kept me from lamenting the saves that were lost in a power surge.

I feel like the Herald (after 10-14 hours in the Hinterlands) does a lot of stuff that it just doesn't make sense for someone directing a military force to do. (This seems a bit better in the Mire and Oasis)

Cassandra has grown on me. I thought I'd hate her, but we agree on everything except the Maker, so far.

Varric: still great.

I miss being as snarky as Hawke was, but I guess leaving that level of wit to Hawke alone makes him/her more special so that's okay.

I wish the gameplay was closer to the first game. You need to get into tactical camera to play it as the spiritual successor to BG etc. that the series started with but the tactical camera is way too close and tends to show less of the battlefield than the over the shoulder, making tactical decisions more difficult while on tactical mode. Plus, a lot of the time, rifts are above it, making them unclickable.

It's okay as is but is a bit of a drag.

Crafting is great, though.

[Solid Snake]

...I'm the only loser playing this on last-gen, aren't I?
*sob*

(Game's been pretty good, but the more I've been exploring the more I wish I had invested in a PS4 for this.)

[Krylo]

I don't have a PS4/XBox One, either, but I just kinda prefer PC gaming for the most part these days so.

[Overcast]

Well I can't force the image to work but yes aside from not having a lot of room for more gaming gear than a large laptop I tend toward PC gaming these days as well.

[Solid Snake]

I don't have a PS4/XBox One, either, but I just kinda prefer PC gaming for the most part these days so.

It's strange that I'm exactly the opposite. I just hate navigating non-strategy games with a mouse and keyboard. I actually have a PC that runs Skyrim on Ultra settings, but my largest Skyrim playthrough was on PS3 because I immensely prefer the Playstation controller.

That being said, this is really going to encourage me to invest in a PS4 sooner than I had hoped. The PS3 version is pretty good at handling all the standard Dragon Age dialogue and exposition stuff, but the further I'm getting into the game and the more I'm exploring the more I really wish I had those pretty current-gen graphics.

[greed]

Already liking this enough to know I'm probably going to replay it. Rolling dwarf who generally does what I'd do, or I'd do if I was a good enough fighter to not die immediately anyway. Not sure if I should go Chantry fanatic Quanari or return to my Origin favourite of elf bent on human genocide next time.

It's strange that I'm exactly the opposite. I just hate navigating non-strategy games with a mouse and keyboard. I actually have a PC that runs Skyrim on Ultra settings, but my largest Skyrim playthrough was on PS3 because I immensely prefer the Playstation controller.

That being said, this is really going to encourage me to invest in a PS4 sooner than I had hoped. The PS3 version is pretty good at handling all the standard Dragon Age dialogue and exposition stuff, but the further I'm getting into the game and the more I'm exploring the more I really wish I had those pretty current-gen graphics.

Snake you do know you can connect controllers to PCs right?

With a bit of fiddling you can even use PS3 wireless controllers. It takes some fucking around with bluetooth but it's doable.

I'm saying this as someone who tried to play PS3 Skyrim, you really played a pathetic shade of that game.

[Seil]

My complaints about Dragon Age II. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=39620&page=2) Hasn't stopped the game from growing on me, and beating it two or three times.

Also, was Anders right? (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=42345)

Now, I've just purchased Inquisition yesterday, it's installing game data... let's see how this goes. (Obvious spoilers ahead.)

...Intricate class picking system. I'm going to spend forever with this, aren't I? Let's go with a Qunari warrior.

Oh, good. Horrible graphical downgrades on PS3.

R2 to attack? What the...? Oh, I can hold it down. Still terrible, though.

Oh geez. I'm going to get frustrated when I'm blocked by rocks and ankle high walls that make the camera go screwy, aren't I?

Wow, that's quite the lock on.

Oh hey, Varric. Solas.... not sure yet.

That tactical thing is going to take some getting use to.

Oh God, crafting systems.

---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

Where the balls are the health potions?

[Solid Snake]

On the PS3, health potions are one of the L triggers (L1 or L2, I don't remember which offhand) to bring up the radial menu, then you tap X after drifting with the stick to the potions you want to select.

I will say that I do wish Inquisition's PS3 controls were X to attack 'normally' and have R2 be one of your special ability slots (which would be consistent with the fact that R1 is a special ability slot.)


I'm saying this as someone who tried to play PS3 Skyrim, you really played a pathetic shade of that game.

My PC runs Skyrim on Ultra just fine and, sure, it looked better, but I'm not sure if it looked so much better that it really would have made a tangible difference with my gaming experience. Certainly, the difference between last-gen and current-gen Inquisition is bigger.

I've never really been the type to care much about graphics, what really sets Inquisition apart is how the PS3 struggles to render some of these basic textures in such a way that it arguably looks worse than other recent PS3 releases. Mind you, PS3 Inquisition still looks better than DA: Origins or DA2, so I'm not complaining much, but this is the first time I really wish I had a PS4.

[Krylo]

My PC runs Skyrim on Ultra just fine and, sure, it looked better, but I'm not sure if it looked so much better that it really would have made a tangible difference with my gaming experience. Certainly, the difference between last-gen and current-gen Inquisition is bigger.


With Bethseda games it's more the lack of access to mods and console commands to customize your game, or just avoid the pitfalls of shitty pathfinding on companions.

Also, I'm at the point where the game is asking me to choose between Templars and mages (can go to meet each). It seems to be trying to push me toward the Templars (Templar enclave has the big green thing, Redcliffe doesn't, companions seem to be trying to push me to meet them, I had to bring up seeing the mages), but at this point I can think of no logical reason to side with the Templars unless you're roleplaying someone who REALLY dislikes magic.

[greed]

With Bethseda games it's more the lack of access to mods and console commands to customize your game, or just avoid the pitfalls of shitty pathfinding on companions.


Yeah pretty much, you're only playing a pretty shitty game unless you've got mods.

Also reasons for siding for and against both come up pretty well. I tend to lean Templar just because the games have in the past shown that mages really can't be trusted not to fuck things right the hell up on their own.

[Krylo]

mages really can't be trusted not to fuck things right the hell up on their own.

I diagree entirely. Across the last two games the Templars and Chantry have basically taken a bunch of people with bombs wired into their chests, push them into corners, and then act surprised when they go off.

[Overcast]

Mage stuff has always been on the neutral ping of my moral center. In 1, due to the betrayal being a sort of sorcerous internal struggle I was on the side of not really killing all the mages.

In 2 I was in a much harder area. I didn't hesitate to kill my friend the terrorist, but when forced to look at which side I had to choose between Templars and Mages I had to realize I was already facing off with blood mages and demons. I was never with Anders when it came to total mage freedom, and these were not people ready for a stable removal.

So Templars.

In Inquisition it will mostly depend on how the Circle is dealing with their split from the Templar. They have to impress on me they are capable of enforcing their own, because if they are no better at keeping shit together than when under Templar supervision then I may as well consider this expiriment a failure.

Still supporting the Qun though, never seen a big ass demon outbreak in the Qunari, and hell the last Qun Mage I saw set himself on fire before he would be given his own freedom. Thats fucking powerful.

[Solid Snake]

I diagree entirely. Across the last two games the Templars and Chantry have basically taken a bunch of people with bombs wired into their chests, push them into corners, and then act surprised when they go off.

Actually, I'll agree with Greed on this one: I went into Inquisition fully anticipating a lop-sided pro-Mage story like in DA2, but characters like Vivienne really actually fleshed out the conflict into shades of grey and I find I'm not incredibly fond of either side of that conflict this time around.

Mind you, I still prefer the Mages over the Templars because fuck odious restrictions on personal freedom based entirely on stereotypes, but this game at least tries to present the other side of the coin. I'm not sure whether I ultimately prefer the shades-of-grey over DA2's rather bold stance on an unambiguous conflict against oppression, and in the end Inquisition seems to have this weird thematic focus on nearly every organizational structure, outside of the ironically-named Inquisition, falling apart at the seams.

I'm still impressed at how much I'm loving just about everyone in the main cast. I'd honestly say Leliana -- one of my favorite characters in Dragon Age Origins! -- is one of my least favorite characters in this cast. And it's not even that Leliana has necessarily gotten much worse, per se, it's more so that Bioware's really stepped up their game with writing these characters. Even Sera, who I was fully prepared to be inclined against, has proven to be deceptively awesome if you can look past her strange behavior (personality disorder?) And, while I don't agree with Vivenne on most things, she's basically a less self-loathing version of the Hawke I envisioned when playing DA2, which is cool to witness.

Iron Bull, of course, is awesome, but y'all already knew that.

Also: Varric has a couple of lines in his dialogues where Bioware is hysterically using him to defend DA2 against haters: Be sure to ask him what Kirkwall's really like when you're lounging around in Haven. (I suppose if you don't love DA2 as much as I do you'll just find it over-defensive.)

[Krylo]

Actually, I'll agree with Greed on this one: I went into Inquisition fully anticipating a lop-sided pro-Mage story like in DA2, but characters like Vivienne really actually fleshed out the conflict into shades of grey and I find I'm not incredibly fond of either side of that conflict this time around. Sure, but Greed said over the last two games the mages fucked shit up on their own.

But that's just factually untrue. Uldred broke the circle in an attempt to earn freedom. The Ferelden mage tower is/was one of the more liberal of the mage towers, and it still felt incredibly like a cage in the mage origin story, and with the events of Kirkwall having not yet happened, dissolving the circle through peaceful means seemed entirely impossible.

It's easy to sympathize with Uldred and the other blood mages, and they were some of the least forgivable malificarum in the DA series.

And, most importantly: They didn't fuck shit up on their own. They turned to blood magic, and, more importantly, demonology, BECAUSE of the templars. They fucked shit up because of their relationship with the Chantry.

This is the case of all but one abomination/blood mage we see in the entire game. Jowan learns blood magic without being tempted, but there's no evidence he trafficked with demons to do so (it's heavily implied he learned the basics by reading the books Irving took from the library--Jowan is terrified of even the IDEA of demons, and far too incompetent to broker a deal for blood magic without losing himself). His dabbling, indeed, is said to come from a place of fear over the harrowing, over him being a shit mage and needing an edge.

I guess you could count the fact that he's incompetent as Connor's teacher as mages fucking shit up on their own, but that's really stretching it, and, again, Connor was only taught by the worst apostate of all time because of the way the chantry and templars treat mages: Isolde didn't want that for Connor, and so enter the death of nearly everyone in Redcliffe.

Moving to DA2, well, we've hashed over how every mage gone abomination was about to be murdered/slaved/sex slaved by Templars or others in previous threads.

This is what I meant by the Chantry and Templars constantly cornering them and being surprised they explode. OF COURSE they're going to reach out to demons repeatedly when placed in the situation the Chantry places them in. And until DA:I about halfway through locking yourself into helping the mages you never really SEE Tevinter, which IS a cautionary tale, and the mage companion (Dorian) you get doing it is the thing that really grays it (Viv is just kind of self-loathing and a bit of a bitch, Sera's right about her), when he points out that helping the mages is kinda how Tevinter happened--inch by inch--and, says his homeland is a cautionary tale. It doesn't excuse oppression but it's something to keep in mind.


That said, I still feel that the game, at every turn, told me that I was 10000% right for choosing mages. The mages approach you peacefully, requesting help, and only turn to Tevinter due to, again, fear of the Templars and a magister literally tearing apart the fabric of space and time. Meanwhile the first time you see the Templars in action it's the Lord Seeker cold clocking a chantry mother who had gone to him for protection. And not only that, but the Templars were a sworn police force. When you see rogue apostates in the Hinterlands and hear about them hurting people, yeah it gave me a little pause, but then the Templars do the same thing. And there's a vast difference between a desperate criminal attacking and stealing from innocent people, and someone acting as part of a larger organization that is SWORN TO PROTECT THOSE VERY PEOPLE just straight up murdering the shit out of them with full backing of their organization and for things as egregarious as holding a stick.

And really, the quest line for recruiting the mages is very interconnected to the rest of the story and, even if I didn't feel all that up there, it still made me feel like 'god damn it's a good thing I took care of this now'.

But really all I'm saying is that for all its shades of greys about the dangers of mages, DA:I Also just turns around and makes the Templars out to be shades of black. At least any that didn't already join the inquisition instead of roaming around killing mages.

[Overcast]

I can't read your spoilers but without any solid evidence that the mages aren't able to do what I imagine is capable self enforcement. Which isn't perfect, because nothing is, but is passable I probably will end up supporting mages. As much as I'd like to go back and put a collar on all of them, it is just a bit late to start.

[Krylo]

You don't really get to see what them self governing is like unless you recruit them as equals (it is possible to recruit them and further oppress them).

But all I'm trying to say is ignoring the social climate in which mages are strapped to a bed and fed laxatives and then accusing them of repeatedly shitting the bed, is, while technically true, missing the point. And hoping that if we just strap them to the bed harder that they'll shit it less is kind of ridiculous.

The qun option works because they're just surgically removing the mage's digestive tract and replacing it with a colonoscopy bag and nutrient drip before strapping them to the bed.

It's effective, but would you treat bed messing with non-consensual major surgery that leaves its patients vegetative?

[Kim]

well i mean the examples of evil mages in DA:I all pretty much herald from Tevinter, where the mages are in charge, which doesn't really condemn fereldan mages as much as make clear that mages can be evil if they have full and total control of the government and culture, and even then they aren't evil as a rule but rather there are evil mages among them.

that said: DA2: Legacy and DA:I both seem to abandon the whole mages as a metaphor for queerness thing DA2 had

also

I banish you and your tribe - with as many weapons as you can carry - to Tevinter.

i love this game

[Krylo]

i love this game

That really was an excellent dialogue choice.

Though my favorite thing so far is "So we're saving the world through bullshit now?"

[Solid Snake]

Sure, but Greed said over the last two games the mages fucked shit up on their own.

Yeah, I definitely don't agree with Greed there. In Origins and DA2 I very much believed that everything that happened with Mages was a direct result of Templars antagonizing them into positions that empowered the very demons they were so terrified of. Like fighting a fire with a flamethrower.

I'm not as far as you and Kim (the few spoilers I did glance at seem a ways further into the game) so maybe my perceptions will change down the line, but it was surprising to hear from Vivienne that the vast majority of Circle towers were pretty lax compared with Kirkwall. Though I don't really understand her subsequent insinuation that Mages who lived relatively comfortably shouldn't be outraged for fellow members of their class who are oppressed simply for being Mages. When Vivienne starts insisting that all Mages should feel terribad because Anders was a terrorist and that means they're all somehow culpable it's pretty awful to hear, perhaps even more so from her than from my self-loathing Hawke in DA2 because at least Hawke was genuinely tormented by it all, Vivienne doesn't even seem emotionally disturbed about the acts of terror but demands the shackles anyway due to some twisted conceptualization of 'justice.'

I do like Cullen, though. Glad he's on the right side this time.

[Overcast]

No, but then again I also don't have the chance to instigate a culture where shitting the bed is the cultural equivilent of cutting your dick off. At the end of the day we are just trying to protect their hypothetical dick. Dat Qun.

Side question to the crew, I tended to kill Anders in most of my run throughs, even when I was dating him because I either hated that he forced me into this position when I shouldn't be the guy making these fucking decisions(Rogue, why am I so important in Kirkwall), because he wasn't in control and had doomed everyone here to walk the hard road to freedom, including me(Mage, I wasn't ready for this), or because I thought he was insane in general(Fighter, bitchyoucrazy).

Am I the only one who tended to stab him? My boyrfiend appears to prefer letting his crazy ass live.

[Krylo]

I'm 50/50. I never liked what he did, but I felt like executing him was the easy way out. He just made things a lot harder for everyone, mages included. Why should he get to just saddle everyone else with that?

Make him live in the world he created and help rebuild.

On the other hand, man I ain't got time to deal with this shit right now, and considering the innocents he killed I can't say killing him is unjust, so you know, it's the fast and clean option.

So depending on my character.

Also, I had one play where I clearly just agreed with him 100% and in that case I was more annoyed by the lack of forewarning or discussion than that he did it.

[Kim]

HUGE SPOILERS that make me happy

So the game just established Krem as trans. You ask why he passes as male and he says he doesn't, he is a dude. Then the Iron Bull says that the Qun have a term for trans people and that they're recognized as the gender they identify as and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa this makes me super happy

EDIT: like... we NEVER get well-handled trans characters in games. NEVER. and krem is awesome and well handled and aaaaaaaaaaa i love him i love da:i

[Solid Snake]

I just met Krem yesterday, he's awesome.

Really sounds like Bioware's atoning for their one big misfire in DA2.
I gotta say, while I wasn't fond of Mass Effect 3's controversy and how that was handled, Bioware's the one and only team of developers that seems to be listening to their fans and trying. I mean, look at how Ubisoft and Atlus and every other AAA developer seems to relish fucking shit up, it's refreshing that Bioware's making even the slightest of efforts.

And is it too early to declare that Dragon Age has officially supplanted Mass Effect as Bioware's best ongoing franchise? And this is coming from someone who thought Origins was mediocre. ME just feels stalled with ME3 while DA2 and Inquisition have raised the bar.

[Kim]

It's not fair that Cassandra is straight ;-;

[Overcast]

From what I hear I should be very happy that Iron Bull follows the Qun ideas on sexuality. And that the whole camp gets to enjoy the gifts of the Qunari physiology.

[greed]

Huh, I was wondering what the deal with Krem was. That's cool. I was guessing they were trying to make him be a really young teenager (and got a woman to voice him to imitate a pre-voice drop boy) and they fucked up the model so he looked like a grown man.

Also on the mages, I generally don't think the Templars should be in charge of overlooking them now that I'm back into the swing of things.
But some sort of Circle like thing with a counter in case of blood magic outbreaks seems like a good option.

I ended up going mages first because they seemed a lot more reasonable than the templars in Orlais.

Also wondering what we'll get for dlc/expacs. I'm kinda hoping for Tevinter or Par Vollen.

Edit: also yes Cassandra being straight sucks. No good lesbian options in this game really. Was gonna go with Dorian, then nope he's gay.

[Krylo]

Was gonna go with Dorian, then nope he's gay.

Inorite?

It was a pretty great scene finding out, and I did like how they handled the fact he'd been flirting with you up until then, though, so I can't really complain.

Speaking of, I ALSO like that you can flirt with everyone, regardless of if they'll be interested in you, and then, oh, well, I'm gay/straight/whatever. It makes things feel more real and organic.

[Krylo]

Also going to revive this thread to just say that I've been playing the fuck out of this game since I got it. I've got like 65 hours on it (more according to my save time, but I'm estimating down a bit for like, eating or whatever without quitting out) and I have loved every minute of it.

I'm pretty sure this is one of my favorite games of all time.

[Revising Ocelot]

Madness has consumed me and I'm sorta half thinking about that -50% on DA2 on Origin, mostly because I'm now notching up DAI on an invisible wishlist. How does one get hold of the DLC, though? Ludicrously overpriced, never discounted Bioware points as always?

[Kim]

I was at a ball and Sera was making insulting remarks about nobles and decided to include some transphobia in there

http://i59.tinypic.com/20iang1.png

so now i feel like shit, especially cuz i was romancing her

---------- Post added at 02:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------

i made a thread about it on the bioware forums and they deleted the thread without comment

[Nikose Tyris]

I am unsurprised, but very disappointed just the same.

[Kim]

apparently the thread was deleted because their community can't handle those discussions rather than because they just wanted to sweep this under the rug

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------

http://i60.tinypic.com/2u9nzpd.png

nevermind apparently im the one at fault for making the thread and so i got a warning

a couple bioware employees later said i shouldnt have gotten a warning and that it wouldnt happen again but it was in an unofficial capacity and even if it was official i dont think that'd make me feel any better at this point

[greed]

Sera's an uneducated (and not that intelligent on top of that) peasant, whose major character trait is running her mouth off with no internal filter. Her being a bit of a bigot who sticks her foot in her mouth kinda fits her character. The fact that she's also got a hate on for nobles and is probably less pleasant about them than she would be to a transgender person of her own class probably adds to it.

I mean the Qunari cultural approach to it as seen with Krem, says Bioware know how to do it right. So Sera being a bit of a dick is probably deliberate. Sucks that it got dropped on you while romancing her though.

[Marc v4.0]

Sera's an uneducated (and not that intelligent on top of that) peasant, whose major character trait is running her mouth off with no internal filter. Her being a bit of a bigot who sticks her foot in her mouth kinda fits her character. The fact that she's also got a hate on for nobles and is probably less pleasant about them than she would be to a transgender person of her own class probably adds to it.

I mean the Qunari cultural approach to it as seen with Krem, says Bioware know how to do it right. So Sera being a bit of a dick is probably deliberate. Sucks that it got dropped on you while romancing her though.

If the way you choose to convey a character as being terrible is to result to bigotry/racism, then the character needs more work. It's lazy writing and rather inexcusable given the quality of work that was on display.

On top of that, being unable to call the character out for their ignorant opinion on the matter compounds the issue. I slay demons and dragons and stand up against fantasy oppression of fantasy races, I should be able to tell a companion to keep their ugly and ignorant opinions to themselves. As it stand now, they say it and you just gotta fucking deal with it.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

A character with flaws that demonstrates classist discrimination? How dare Bioware! The NERVE of injecting personality!

[Solid Snake]

A character with flaws that demonstrates classist discrimination? How dare Bioware! The NERVE of injecting personality!

In my opinion (though I have not witnessed the scene in question yet) the problem here is less that Sera descends into the realm of bigotry on its face, and more that she's A: a protagonist, B: a romance interest, C: not really anyone who's displayed any tendency towards said bigotry beforehand (in other words, Bioware doesn't seem to be aware that her behavior in this scene could be construed as offensive) D: you can't even chastise her after she says her bigoted comment, suggesting implicit agreement -- or at least, tacit acquiescence -- on the part of your character.

Like, it's very similar to the objections I have personally to Yosuke's misogyny in Persona 4: Golden; I don't mind characters like Yosuke and Teddie being written as bigoted as much as I mind the inability for my own avatar character to tell them to shut the fuck up. Agency in shutting down bigots is at least a way for the game's developers to let you know they recognize the behavior is objectively wrong, and despite Sera or Yosuke's opinions on the subject, the developers actually side with you and not them.

The problem with characters lack said agency is that the scene instead feels like the scene's writers take no issue whatsoever with the commentary, and are including it because it's 'normal', 'to be expected' or even 'to be encouraged.' It's included for a laugh, with the expectation you're laughing along with the assholes. It shows a stunning lack of basic empathy.

There's a message you can include in games that empowers the oppressed by actually enabling them to confront their oppressors, and then there's this bullshit, which just reinforces that transgendered individuals weren't really considered as a potential audience for this scene, and which unnecessarily undermines Bioware's previous efforts to be more inclusive.

[Kim]

I honestly don't see why transphobia has to be part of her personality when there isn't homophobia or real-world racism. No "He's a faggot" or shitty comments about black people so why is it acceptable to be a transphobic piece of shit. The line was clearly meant to be a comedic way of her making fun of the nobles. So, to the person who wrote that line, "He's a she" is funny.

This is so basic and yet people are always defending this shit and it's disgusting and you should fucking know better.

---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------

It's really fucking insulting that I can't even play a fantasy game about saving the world and killing dragons without my fucking identity being treated as a fucking joke, and that you see my identity being treated as a joke and respond with, "No problem here," certainly doesn't make me feel any better. What the fuck.

[Solid Snake]

I honestly don't see why transphobia has to be part of her personality when there isn't homophobia or real-world racism.

That's a great point.

[greed]

In my opinion (though I have not witnessed the scene in question yet) the problem here is less that Sera descends into the realm of bigotry on its face, and more that she's A: a protagonist, B: a romance interest, C: not really anyone who's displayed any tendency towards said bigotry beforehand (in other words, Bioware doesn't seem to be aware that her behavior in this scene could be construed as offensive) D: you can't even chastise her after she says her bigoted comment, suggesting implicit agreement -- or at least, tacit acquiescence -- on the part of your character.

Like, it's very similar to the objections I have personally to Yosuke's misogyny in Persona 4: Golden; I don't mind characters like Yosuke and Teddie being written as bigoted as much as I mind the inability for my own avatar character to tell them to shut the fuck up. Agency in shutting down bigots is at least a way for the game's developers to let you know they recognize the behavior is objectively wrong, and despite Sera or Yosuke's opinions on the subject, the developers actually side with you and not them.

The problem with characters lack said agency is that the scene instead feels like the scene's writers take no issue whatsoever with the commentary, and are including it because it's 'normal', 'to be expected' or even 'to be encouraged.' It's included for a laugh, with the expectation you're laughing along with the assholes. It shows a stunning lack of basic empathy.


The key difference is Yosuke is presented as an everyman that the game seems to tacitly expect people to agree with. I fully agree with the issues with Yosuke. However Sera regularly says pretty stupid things. She is explicitly presented as crass and uneducated.

Sure games without any bigotry are a nice escapist deal, but Dragon Age is not and never has been that setting. Bigotry and discrimination is everywhere, it's different in focus from the real world sure but very much there. Sera having some ignorant views is honestly pretty in line characterisation.

[Marc v4.0]

Sure games without any bigotry are a nice escapist deal, but Dragon Age is not and never has been that setting. Bigotry and discrimination is everywhere, it's different in focus from the real world sure but very much there. Sera having some ignorant views is honestly pretty in line characterisation.

Fantasy Bigotry about Fantasy Races. The Dragon Age world is canonically accepting of a range of sexuality, and devoid of real world racisms, but this is the third game using transness as a shitty joke. It doesn't make any sense why this, and only this, has to be the shitty real-life issue that gets dragged up as a fucking joke.


At the end of the day you really need to ask yourself what you are getting out of attempting to justify it. If it is something that upset someone to the point that they don't want to play the game again and are kind enough to warn other people that it happens, what do you really gain? Kim isn't going to become un-upset and those that choose to avoid it aren't going to change their minds just because someone else thinks it makes sense.

[greed]

There's plenty of RL bigotry though? Tons of sexism (different from RL but definitely still there) and loads of religious discrimination. Racism and homophobia are the only bigotries that are really lessened, and that's only if you discount the fantasy races thing (and that's something of a new thing for this game, the first game suggested Orlesians and Fereldens at least had a lot of hate for each other).

I mean the bigotry is different and in some cases less ad implemented differently but it's definitely there. The treatment of transpeople is on par with this too seeing as at least one of the major cultures seems really good about it.

As for why I'm arguing, I was initially just commenting on Kim's first post about it, and then explaining to Snake the difference in context between the scene and the deal with Yosuke in P4.

All this said I'm not arguing with Kim's decision to not like the game and stop playing I get that, it hit something horrible for her and hit her with it in a pretty bad way.

[Krylo]

I got the same scene as I also brought Sera along on that particular quest, and I'll say regardless of whatever else and/or how intentional it may have been to show her in a negative light on this situation, it was handled poorly.

It's mixed in with a number of much less offensive things to insult people for, directed against a group that is just objectively terrible in every way, and whose terribleness you're navigating at that point in the game and you're given no option to call her on it or otherwise suggest that the player/player character doesn't feel that way.

The other bigotries are handled much more carefully and in even handed manners (I mean, the elves are just literally black people from their 'exotic' looks leading to them being desirable, to their lower class positions in society either as servants or living in ghettoes (or both), the way humans look down on them as lazy and criminals, etc. etc.), but we're always shown elves as people who are struggling against oppression.

The same can be said for the Qun's sexism, etc. We're always shown the other side right alongside the negatives and we don't really see someone insulting a terrible elf based, entirely, on their elfyness rather than their terribleness.

I mean, sure, Sera seems to pretty blatantly hate magic and dalish elves and has a lot of these societal notions deeply rooted in her and it's possible that the the 'he's a she' was meant to be another bit of that part of her character. It's POSSIBLE, however it wasn't handled in a way that makes this obvious or even hint at it as a possibility in the context of the scene in question.

The way Krem was handled earns them points, but that line was handled poorly and I don't know if it earns them the benefit of the doubt all things considered.

[Solid Snake]

So I took advantage of Amazon's one day $15 off deal on Inquisition to purchase the PC version of the game early, before my new Radeon R9 290 graphics card arrived.

...And even with my old Radeon 6870, with everything on Medium settings, this game looks so much better than it does on PS3, it's like I'm playing a completely different game. The characters look like different people! I can actually see what's happening during battles! Goddamn it's awesome.

I'll have to post three sets of pictures some time: Everything on the PS3, everything on PC (Medium) and everything on PC (Ultra) once I've upgraded.

Definitely think I'm going to want to play this with a controller, though, the mouse and keyboard controls are kind of wonky.
Here's the pivotal question: Is there any way I can make the hair look less ridiculous? It shines like they doused everything under metric tons of product.

[Marc v4.0]

So I took advantage of Amazon's one day $15 off deal on Inquisition to purchase the PC version of the game early, before my new Radeon R9 290 graphics card arrived.

...And even with my old Radeon 6870, with everything on Medium settings, this game looks so much better than it does on PS3, it's like I'm playing a completely different game. The characters look like different people! I can actually see what's happening during battles! Goddamn it's awesome.

I'll have to post three sets of pictures some time: Everything on the PS3, everything on PC (Medium) and everything on PC (Ultra) once I've upgraded.

Definitely think I'm going to want to play this with a controller, though, the mouse and keyboard controls are kind of wonky.
Here's the pivotal question: Is there any way I can make the hair look less ridiculous? It shines like they doused everything under metric tons of product.

Gotcha covered

If you are playing on PC, make sure to set your Model Quality to High or Ultra. A quirk with the Frostbite engine makes armor shines apply to hair and lips if MQ is set lower. Gives everyone Ken doll glossed hair and lips.

Game is pretty, and walking animations are about the most realistic I've seen in a game.

[Krylo]

I still say that's just the style in Orlais, and the only bug is that it disappears on high settings.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

So I took advantage of Amazon's one day $15 off deal on Inquisition to purchase the PC version of the game early, before my new Radeon R9 290 graphics card arrived.

...And even with my old Radeon 6870, with everything on Medium settings, this game looks so much better than it does on PS3, it's like I'm playing a completely different game. The characters look like different people! I can actually see what's happening during battles! Goddamn it's awesome.

I'll have to post three sets of pictures some time: Everything on the PS3, everything on PC (Medium) and everything on PC (Ultra) once I've upgraded.

Definitely think I'm going to want to play this with a controller, though, the mouse and keyboard controls are kind of wonky.
Here's the pivotal question: Is there any way I can make the hair look less ridiculous? It shines like they doused everything under metric tons of product.

As it should be since it's a next gen game on PC.

[greed]

"I prefer my nipples uncauterised"

Goddamnit Iron Bull I was drinking.

[Krylo]

"I prefer my nipples uncauterised"

Goddamnit Iron Bull I was drinking.

Have you gotten to the Western Approach yet? Because my favorite bit of Bull dialogue is there. Specifically when you bait the High Dragon and it comes swooping in.

[Solid Snake]

Who the hell wouldn't travel everywhere with Iron Bull?

Cassandra - Bull - Varric - Mage Inquisitor is the hypothetical best party, but since I'm rolling Rogue, on PS3 it's Dorian and not Varric (Vivienne proved to be intolerable.)

[greed]

I actually switch party a lot as I like basically everyone but Vivienne and Sera. Cole and Solas get some really interesting dialogue. Also gives Solas some more depth. There was conversation between Vivienne and Blackwall that made me have to pause the game i was laughing too hard. The delivery is a big part of a lot of the lines, the voice director fucking nailed their job this time.

I've also heard having Dorian and Bull in the party a lot triggers something cool.

Edit: The thing I mentioned? It is really cool.

[Krylo]

I don't use Bull that often because he's just not very good. I usually try to swap him in for Dragon fights because, well, if you don't you're just mean.

But Two-Handed warrior seems to need a lot of micromanaging (as in, just play as him instead of the inquisitor) to work well and Reaver is a pretty shitty specialization.

[Solid Snake]

I don't use Bull that often because he's just not very good. I usually try to swap him in for Dragon fights because, well, if you don't you're just mean.

But Two-Handed warrior seems to need a lot of micromanaging (as in, just play as him instead of the inquisitor) to work well and Reaver is a pretty shitty specialization.

You're right. Sword and Shield is so overpowered for warriors. Blackwall and Cassandra could probably take on entire armies on their own. With a Mage throwing Barriers on them it's almost unfathomably easy.

If you're playing on Normal difficulty, swapping in Iron Bull is almost preferable to ensure the game feels moderately challenging. (Should've chosen Hard.)

[Krylo]

I'm on my second playthrough and Two-Handed warrior gets MUCH stronger once you get the lower left ability in the vanguard tree (unbound, I believe).

Or at least much more durable. Planning on trying to romance Bull this time so I'm forcing myself to take him with and decided to figure out ways to up that sweet sweet guard, and well, yeah. That + Bull Rush has allowed him to keep his guard pretty well full. Of course this leaves his DPS a little lacking as I haven't invested in the ACTUAL two handed tree yet, but that will come (especially with my opinion on Reaver still being very very low).

---------- Post added at 03:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 AM ----------

Also: Went with a warrior myself whose personality I built up in my head specifically to give myself a reasonable ability to go with the Templars.

Templar quest is pretty good but not nearly as good as mage one. Still, though, worth doing.

[Solid Snake]

When you first meet a certain character in Skyhold, did you have to customize that character's appearance or go with the default version?

...Because there I was, hoping to explore Skyhold and the world a bit, and suddenly I've wasted hours trying to replicate her appearance and I just can't even get close, ssssoooo annoying.

[Krylo]

Take the time. I customized but just assumed it was a quick meet and greet. She sticks with you through an entire (rather long) quest line. So I dealt with my laziness leading to her looking really fuckin' weird.

Second game I managed to get a pretty good likeness pretty quickly. Keep in mind that the lighting is very dark in that creator, which can make your make-ups and hair colors hard to get right if you aren't aware, as well.

[Solid Snake]

I ended up getting reasonably close but there was no hairstyle that matched hers, so I just have her one of those buzz-cut pseudo-Mohawk hairdos and imagined that story events led her to chop off her hair.

And then the snarky voice loaded up and I instantly regretted my decision. (Damn, she just has the best voice, though.)

So now I have to decide whether to restart from the blizzard before the Internment Camp, or play through the game with some weird disconnect with this character.

...I'm also not really sure if I'm going to ultimately be happy with how this is handled. Asked a few questions about certain prior events and got really stale, prepackaged answers. And how tiring is the generic "Your character's life that you worked so hard to improve falls apart the moment the game ends" shtick. Love life? Naaaaah, you can be single and alone again. Family? Naaaah they've all run the fuck away.

It really wouldn't have been too hard for Bioware to write better excuses in dialogue for this to be happening.

[Kim]

Actually mine still had a relationship going on with Merril which made me really happy.

[Solid Snake]

Actually mine still had a relationship going on with Merril which made me really happy.

Oh, that's cool. I just heard my Hawke's relationship with Fenris ended for the extremely generic reason that Hawke was concerned for his safety if he continued to be with her and I assumed every possible relationship suffered the same fate.

[Kim]

Nah, my Varric even made a comment about needing to make sure Hawke gets back to Merril safe and sound.

[greed]

Wonder if that's just the canned reaction for each relationship or if it varies on other factors?

Like if Hawke made aggressive choices would they be more willing to stick with their partner whereas if the choices they made were more cautious they leave them?

[Krylo]

I got similar, but I don't think the same, as Kim with the same romance. My Hawke and Merril didn't break up, but Hawke also didn't tell Merril where she went and seemed ready to leave her on the basis of not wanting to drag Merril into more fighting. I also remember Varric mentioning having to write Merril a letter after a specific point, but not about needing to get Hawke back to her, but the latter I might have just missed.

Not really enough to go on as far as that goes, and I could see it going either way.

One thing that I'm curious about is the Arcanist. I have Dagna and (separate spoilers for later in the game regarding the thing I just spoiled) she makes a rune that immediately destroys Samson's armor when you finally get to battle him, presumably, making the fight easier. She's my arcanist again in my second play through, so I won't see this myself--and I'm wondering if whomever you get to install runes on shit is as competent as she is, or whether that boss fight is harder if you don't send Dagna to the circle tower in Origins?

[Solid Snake]

I'm playing a playthrough wherein my Warden sided with the Templars against the Mages in Origins, which I think precludes sending Dagna to the Circle. (I did the Circle quest before Orzammar.) I definitely selected one of the options in Keep where Dagna doesn't get her wish but I forget offhand exactly which alternative option I chose for her.

I'm not as far along as you in the game, but Dagna's still my arcanist. (And, voiced by Rise's VA?) When I asked her for her story she mentioned initially failing but persevering and eventually reaching a Circle that wasn't in Ferelden to study her craft.

I'll keep you posted on what she does or says later.

EDIT: The Hawke romance trigger may actually have to do with whether your Hawke went pro-Mage or pro-Templar in Act 3 of DA2, as Hawke leaves Kirkwall under differing circumstances in each scenario. Most pivotally, pro-Templar Hawke as Viscount leaves Kirkwall alone after serving the city for some time, while pro-Mage Hawke leaves Kirkwall earlier while still accompanied by (some of) your DA2 companions, at least initially. That may have something to do with it.

EDIT 2: ...If you ever wanted to try a Pro-Templar DA2 playthrough, boy, Inquisition is the final nail in the coffin that destroys that concept as a good idea.

My Pro-Templar Hawke (and ALL pro-Templar Hawkes) are ultimately betrayed by the very Templars they allied with, the majority of whom become addicted to red lyrium shortly after the events of DA2. Like, she seriously would've been assassinated not by the Mages but BY THE TEMPLARS if pro-Templar Hawke tried to stay on as Viscount. So pro-Templar Hawke is essentially forced into exile alone. Only Varric (and maybe some love interests who aren't Fenris?) is still by her side in some tangible capacity. (Though I guess Aveline's still your bud, but she bails on you to accompany your sibling if your sibling's a Grey Warden.)

By contrast, pro-Mage Hawke leaves Kirkwall voluntarily with (most of) her companions in the immediate aftermath of DA2 to try to spare Kirkwall from an Exalted March. And then the Rebel Mages remain her friends and allies, and Hawke plays a role in their ultimate rebellion.

Jeez. Talk about punishing players like me who made the objectively wrong choice. Gotta give points to Bioware for refusing to 'both sidez' this conflict. In all future DA2 playthroughs I'm siding with the Mages, it's now just a matter of whether I view Anders as a terrorist or a freedom fighter.

[Overcast]

He'll always be a terrorist in my heart.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Game is mechanically fun but holy fuck so much terribly cornball writing. Like, one laugh track away from being 80s afternoon sitcom comedy with swords cringeworthy.

[Overcast]

Someone did send me a song that he said appears during an emotionally notable scene. I said unless the song had come up before plotwise that everyone breaking out into it would probably be weird to me by comparison to doing the traditional Shepardspeech.

[Krylo]

I just want to pop in to say that Warden/Morrigan romance is amazing in DA:I.

[Solid Snake]

I just want to pop in to say that Warden/Morrigan romance is amazing in DA:I.

Does the Warden show up again in any capacity if you made certain decisions in DA: O?

[Krylo]

Does the Warden show up again in any capacity if you made certain decisions in DA: O?

I don't think so, unless you count a note from him/her for a war table thing, though I haven't finished the 'contact the hero' bit with Morrigan romance, yet (it's like a 15 hour war table mission), but I doubt I'll get more than the note.

But the way Morrigan talks about the warden if you question her about it is just, really great. Like, she's very Morrigan about it, but at the same time she very obviously cares about him. And about Kieran, for that matter.

[Solid Snake]

...So I'm probably going to put more hours into designing my Inquisitor for PC than I'll actually put into playing the game.
Worth it.

EDIT:


http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o453/AceOfDiamonds29/Eilonwy5.png



WORTH IT

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Smashing attempt there, snake. But it's time to step up your game.
http://i.imgur.com/6Vvi3Lu.png

[Aerozord]

So here is my thing with games like this, I mod the hell out of them. Yet when I checked the usual places there was barely anything, which strikes me as odd since I figure it uses the same dragon age engine so people would port over alot of basic stuff.

Is it just too new or is this thing harder to mod for?

[Revising Ocelot]

I'm 99% sure it uses the Battlefield engine, Frostbite.

Oh, and I now have both DA2 and Inquisition. Turns out my brother is not a racist old bastard like the rest of my family, but the post was slow. Who knew? I will play DA2 first, and I will mash the X button on my 360 controller for maximum Awesome.

[pochercoaster]

Alright, so I finally got around to playing it and DA:I is fucking awesome. I haven't played the previous two (just watched Erick play them here and there) because I thought it would be too hard but it's actually not that bad. I love that I can micromanage everything in battle if I want or just sit back and let stuff happen.

Cassandra makes the same disgusted noises that I make IRL and it's endearing.

Also holy crap it's pretty.

Also yeah I'm veeery early on in the game and I am unfamiliar with the lore so I don't have much commentary on that front.

Edit: OMG there's ponies!!!

[Overcast]

I almost wish you'd do a lets play because all these initial reactions seem adorable.

[pochercoaster]

I would, except I'm too busy and disorganized to maintain any kind of consistency with that kind of thing. :( It would be hilarious though considering how awful I am at games.

---------- Post added 01-07-2015 at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was 01-06-2015 at 11:10 AM ----------

Is there any evidence in Dragon Age lore that The Maker exists? It doesn't seem like there is so I guess I'll be rolling atheist, even though Cassandra won't like me if I do :<

Edit: Sera is THE BEST.

Edit 2: except for the transphobic joke mentioned earlier :<

[Solid Snake]

Is there any evidence in Dragon Age lore that The Maker exists? It doesn't seem like there is so I guess I'll be rolling atheist, even though Cassandra won't like me if I do :<


I'm impressed with the sheer diversity of religious belief regarding concepts like The Maker and Andraste (basically, she's DA's Jesus figure) in Inquisition. It'd be easy to paint all believers with the fundamentalist brush, particularly since that's the (factually inaccurate!) view of religion in the so-called Dark Age, but as you get to know your crew in Inquisition there's a lot of differentiation among the cast and it's fascinating that they really took the time to flesh out unique theological perspectives in a fantasy world like this.

As for Sera, personally I was never a huge fan, in part because she always reminded me of those Marxists who think everything's about Class to such an extent that they'll gleefully be offensive, insensitive asses about everything else. I still like her as a teammate who provides an interesting perspective but, damn, it's strange to reflect on how Cassandra is actually much more progressive than Sera once you dig beneath the surface.

[pochercoaster]

I'm impressed with the sheer diversity of religious belief regarding concepts like The Maker and Andraste (basically, she's DA's Jesus figure) in Inquisition. It'd be easy to paint all believers with the fundamentalist brush, particularly since that's the (factually inaccurate!) view of religion in the so-called Dark Age, but as you get to know your crew in Inquisition there's a lot of differentiation among the cast and it's fascinating that they really took the time to flesh out unique theological perspectives in a fantasy world like this.

Yeah, like, I appreciate that there is varying levels of devotion and.. traditionalism? among the characters and even within the chantry. Like, personally, religion doesn't bother me, just the organized/structural aspects of it. And DA:I seems to be about picking about the structural faults with the chantry, the templars, and so on, and they're doing so with lots of depth and it's really refreshing.

Edit: In fact, as an atheist, it would probably bother me if they didn't show depth within the chantry and also the faults in other organized groups because that would seem too much like making out dickheaded atheists (e.g. Richard Dawkins) and their (admittedly small number of) followers (who pretend intolerance is unique to organized religion while being just as intolerant and conservative as organized religion) as the solution. Or something.

Like I'm still drawing the conclusion that templars are gigantic dicks and that the chantry is kind of dated but it's not like the game makes it a super obvious black and white choice the way, say... Skyrim did with the stormcloaks and imperials.

As for Sera, personally I was never a huge fan, in part because she always reminded me of those Marxists who think everything's about Class to such an extent that they'll gleefully be offensive, insensitive asses about everything else. I still like her as a teammate who provides an interesting perspective but, damn, it's strange to reflect on how Cassandra is actually much more progressive than Sera once you dig beneath the surface.

Yeah, I think I enjoy her mostly because she is an unrefined asshole who is obsessed with breeches.

I wonder if somewhere else in the game there's a character with a more intelligent marxist stance? That would be nice.

Anyways, I met Vivienne last night. I'm not sure I'm too fond of her, but I am fond of her wardrobe, cause damn. It's cool to see a resplendent, powerful female black character.

In general, I enjoy the wide cast of female characters and the depth with which they are written. Same for the male characters, actually, because god knows the typical male hero gets pretty boring.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I also finally met Iron Bull and Krem, and they're fantastic. I don't need to repeat every one of Iron Bull's* humorous lines, but I want to.

*THE Iron Bull

[Solid Snake]

I didn't particularly mind Vivienne when I first met her, but once I saw the way she interacted with all the other characters, it became apparent that she was putting up a charming facade for the Inquisitor by virtue of the power s/he wielded, and her default personality around people who aren't gifted with incredible world-saving power is trash.

I really like Dorian. In fact whenever I get around to creating a pro-Mage male Inquisitor I am absolutely going to romance him. He has a completely unique religious and political perspective from every character you've met so far but he's a similar breed of progressive-minded reformer. He has some elements of Vivienne's arrogant wit but unlike Vivienne, Dorian doesn't seem to treat others with the same degree of scorn or contempt. (Though I can't imagine he and Bull will be great friends given their respective national identities.)

It's funny because when I first met Dorian and when I first met Vivienne I had the opposite impressions about them, then Dorian grew on me while Vivienne soured as I scratched beneath the surface.

I know I said this in chat too, but one thing I really like about DA2 and Inquisition is how Bioware doesn't shy away from using their games to make thinly veiled progressive political statements, while casting the protagonists as clear agents of liberal change and reform in their conservative societies. Cullen's the progressive Templar with a conscience and a brain in his head, Dorian's critical of Tevinter, Bull is nothing like the 'typical' Qunari, Solas and Cole challenge conventional assumptions about the very threat of the Fade and spirits that you're fighting against, Cassandra is surprisingly questioning of her own religious convictions and favors pretty substantive Chantry reforms, even Leliana for all her spymongering makes it pretty clear she supports the mage rebellion. It's not quite the same as DA2, which had you feel as if you were playing the oppressed fighting against their own oppression, but it's a worthy sequel to DA2 in the sense that now you're playing the same personalities that were oppressed in the original title, but who are 'liberated' through their affiliations with the Inquisitor and the destruction of the conservative order with the loss of all the Chantry bigwigs into a position where they can be more active agents in changing the power structure of all of Thedas, and not just one small city in Kirkwall. It's as if DA2 purposefully makes you feel hopeless and helpless in the wake of seriously disturbing oppression of minorities, and then Inquisition says "Here's some weapons, here's your opportunity, now change it."

It makes me appreciate Dragon Age as a series all the more when I contrast it with Mass Effect, which for all its glitz and glamour really never tried to make similar political statements despite the fact that it actually takes place in our own Milky Way galaxy. I mean the extent of Mass Effect's themes often boiled down to "Brazenly obvious racism; isn't it fucking atrocious?" and there's nowhere near the same complexity or nuance.

[pochercoaster]

Man, fuck the quest markers and maps in this game. I have spent entirely too long running in circles in redcliffe castle like an idiot just trying to find the last red lyrium shard. What the fuck? I'm tired of looking up walkthroughs for redcliffe castle.

Edit: It was just... sitting on the floor? I'm pretty sure I immediately picked up all the ones that spellbinders dropped, so... wtf? Well, whatever, I'm happy to get on with the game.

[Solid Snake]

So I just saw the scene between Dorian and his father.

1: Awesome game is awesome;
2: Dorian is the best LGBT character in a videogame ever;
3: I love Dorian, and also why did I create a female Inquisitor for PC, I so want to romance him it's not even funny;
4: Bioware deserves massive props for making me feel so strongly for a character like Dorian that I'd rather romance him than any woman in this game;
5: Dorian is 11/10 best character in game;
6: The extremely rare use of the word 'fuck' (when Dorian says 'fucking') in this scene is just, damn Bioware;
7: Seriously whoever wrote Dorian is Bioware's best writer and should write every character;
8: I'm never going Templar route in future playthroughs, fuck choosing Cole over Dorian

EDIT: Another thing I love is how Tarot cards for your teammates change as their stories progress.

[pochercoaster]

Haven't progressed too much in the story yet, but unnnnhh I love this game SO MUCH I WANT TO MARRY IT.

-Vivienne is bitchy but not one-dimensionally bitchy like most media portray bitchy women. She's like real life bitchy women I know, if that makes sense? ::V: Like I still don't like her, but I like how real she is.

-I like how the combat is still engaging even on easy mode. I'm playing an archer and every time I do a leaping shot it's like the most satisfying thing ever.

-I want to play with Iron Bull more but he just sucks too much in combat and that makes me sad.

-Dorian is fantastic.

-Jospehine is hawt and has poofy sleeves and I'm trying to romance her.

[Solid Snake]

I like that Vivienne simultaneously represents the very worst ways that privilege can warp someone's perspective, while still kind of telling both you (as a player) and the Inquisitor that she'd actually probably be a decent person if you could just separate her from that privilege, in a slightly similar way to how Cullen was a decent person in the earlier DA titles before he got out of the Templars and how someone like me was a 'decent person' even when I spewed privileged conservative bullshit earlier in life.

Vivienne's almost certainly worse than Cullen (and I) in terms of her willingness to offend others -- bring her along with Blackwall or Varric and you'll want to berate her as she berates them, particularly if you played and enjoyed Dragon Age 2 -- but there's nice little moments of humanity from her, little moments where she surprises you by showing empathy towards others or makes a surprisingly level-headed argument where you almost see her perspective, kind of, sort of. Or at least you might see how a decent human being might believe said bullshit if they're born into said privilege and have no idea whatsoever what life is actually like for real people in the real world.

For me the ultimate red flag with Vivienne was realizing that those few moments where she does show surprising humanity and empathy are moments where she's addressing the Inquisitor privately -- and that's where I really am concerned for her, because I know she's an ambitious character with an agenda and I know the Inquisitor has been gifted with insane world-changing powers. So really, my fear with Vivienne is that the surprisingly 'non-typical bitch' character you described may actually become very typical by endgame if it's revealed that she's just playing a political role and crafting her answers like a politician to garner your favor or persuade you (the Inquisitor) to agree with her perspective. Unfortunately it is kind of easy to see that endgame with her (I'm not all too much further than you), where all her depth is stripped away and she just becomes the cliched Sinister Privileged Conservative Fuckwit Who Puts On a Mask to Deceive.

I kind of hope she retains that weird likability though, where she remains this character who you simultaneously really hate due to her awful opinions but who you admire for her wit and intelligence and her sense of humor and who you like just barely enough that you wish there was a way you could sway her to realize the error of her ways and accept the truth.

You know, kind of like how you all felt about Conservative Snake.
...Right?

[Krylo]

-I want to play with Iron Bull more but he just sucks too much in combat and that makes me sad.

Throw some points into vanguard to get him some guard building and he gets pretty good. Alternatively, once you get access to making masterwork gear, make him a weapon (or piece of armor) with +guard on damage dealing (which makes anyone into an unkillable murder machine--I made my first character, a rogue, basically unstoppable with that).

Or do both.

[Solid Snake]

Throw some points into vanguard to get him some guard building and he gets pretty good. Alternatively, once you get access to making masterwork gear, make him a weapon (or piece of armor) with +guard on damage dealing (which makes anyone into an unkillable murder machine--I made my first character, a rogue, basically unstoppable with that).

Or do both.

Even with those Vanguard points, I've struggled to keep Bull alive for long on Hard. I'll have to try that Masterwork idea, that sounds effective. But honestly, given I went pure offensive spells as a Mage, I usually have to go two Mages (all my other mages have near-full skill trees in defensive, with barriers and resurrect) and a 1H-Shield, and I usually prefer to complement that party with a Rogue.