Is Historical Accuracy Good or Bad?

[RobinStarwing]

So I watched a video from Gaijin Goomba regarding Kancolle and they would mention a kickstarter for a similar game in the west.

Victory Belles (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/blackchickenstudios/victory-belles)

Now this looks promising but I had to stop myself for a minute and if you clicked the link, you would see why.

When I asked them about this and showed concerned, they did mention the Iron Cross is an option in game. They were however going for Historical Accuracy. Now this is something I can understand and respect. I just wonder and hope they will not be sunk because they are sticking to their guns on the historical accuracy. As I said, this looks like a promising game that could become a rival for Kancolle and maybe force DMM to do an English Translation/Localization.

[BB]

It's got some nice attack stats but grass types have a lot of weaknesses and the addition of poison really hurts it when psychic types are rife and powerful. Also, it's pretty slow and relies on the sun to get its speed up which means you have to run a weather team or spend a moveslot on Sunny Day. Abomasnow will shut it down pretty handily just by switching in, which is a pain.

Edit: also I think historical accuracy can be a theme rather than a rule when the ships are cute girls.

[RobinStarwing]

It's got some nice attack stats but grass types have a lot of weaknesses and the addition of poison really hurts it when psychic types are rife and powerful. Also, it's pretty slow and relies on the sun to get its speed up which means you have to run a weather team or spend a moveslot on Sunny Day. Abomasnow will shut it down pretty handily just by switching in, which is a pain.

WTF? :wtf:


Edit: also I think historical accuracy can be a theme rather than a rule when the ships are cute girls.


EDIT: Also, I can agree with that sentiment.

[phil_]

I don't think I'm saying anything new here, but actual historical accuracy which is actually historically accurate can add a lot of depth to a work, in that it gives fans who want to engage deeply in a work a limitless amount of background to delve into/armchair general about. Part of what makes things like Girls und Panzer so engaging is the potential for discussion on where they based things on historical reality and where they threw history out the window.

Historical accuracy as an excuse to throw in a bunch of gore, rape, and racism would fall under "bad," though. If you want gore, rape, and racism, go ahead and write that, but falling back to repeating "But it's Historically Accurate™" when any push-back happens is a weaker argument than a loud fart. See, because the historical presence of gore, rape, and racism doesn't make The Past any more of a 24/7 rape, gore, and racism-athon than The Present (where all those things are still present), so it kinda falls apart as an argument for there being any special requirement on historical works to contain or emphasize those elements. I mention this because this is what is being discussed most of the time in historical accuracy internet fights, and I'm pretty sure it's what Robin wanted to talk about when making this thread.

As far as this applies to boats... eh, we glorify every aspect of WWII enough that, even if some people don't like heroic Nazi boats, there will be an audience there willing to embrace them.

[RobinStarwing]

I don't think I'm saying anything new here, but actual historical accuracy which is actually historically accurate can add a lot of depth to a work, in that it gives fans who want to engage deeply in a work a limitless amount of background to delve into/armchair general about. Part of what makes things like Girls und Panzer so engaging is the potential for discussion on where they based things on historical reality and where they threw history out the window.

Historical accuracy as an excuse to throw in a bunch of gore, rape, and racism would fall under "bad," though. If you want gore, rape, and racism, go ahead and write that, but falling back to repeating "But it's Historically Accurate™" when any push-back happens is a weaker argument than a loud fart. See, because the historical presence of gore, rape, and racism doesn't make The Past any more of a 24/7 rape, gore, and racism-athon than The Present (where all those things are still present), so it kinda falls apart as an argument for there being any special requirement on historical works to contain or emphasize those elements. I mention this because this is what is being discussed most of the time in historical accuracy internet fights, and I'm pretty sure it's what Robin wanted to talk about when making this thread.

As far as this applies to boats... eh, we glorify every aspect of WWII enough that, even if some people don't like heroic Nazi boats, there will be an audience there willing to embrace them.

Part of it has me thinking back to World of Warships and the reason the German Vessels do not fly the flag used in WW2 for the German Navy. Thank you for the insights though. Also...they're Shipgirls.

[Marc v4.0]

The most common and recent times I've seen 'historically accurate!' rolled out were about The Witcher and Game of Thrones, two franchises that do not take place in actual human history, so I am going to go with 'is typically a load of bullshit'.

[rpgdemon]

The most common and recent times I've seen 'historically accurate!' rolled out were about The Witcher and Game of Thrones, two franchises that do not take place in actual human history, so I am going to go with 'is typically a load of bullshit'.

And also historically inaccurate!

I could go on a whole thing about how just because Witcher's-dev-who-went-on-that-whole-thing-about-how-"YOU DON'T KNOW THE PROUD AND STORIED HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY WHICH WAS DEVOID OF ALL RACISM AND ALSO DEVOID OF BLACK PEOPLE, SO IT'D BE CONFUSING TO HAVE BLACK PEOPLE THERE. ALSO WE COULDN'T ADDRESS ANY ISSUES OF RACE WITH THEM AROUND SO WE LEFT THEM OUT INSTEAD, KEEPING IN THE VERY ACCURATE RACIAL PROBLEMS WE HAD WITH... I DUNNO, ELVES OR SOME SHIT?" has a shoddy knowledge of history, doesn't make it historically accurate. But that sentence sums up all my problems with what went down.

[RobinStarwing]

And also historically inaccurate!

I could go on a whole thing about how just because Witcher's-dev-who-went-on-that-whole-thing-about-how-"YOU DON'T KNOW THE PROUD AND STORIED HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY WHICH WAS DEVOID OF ALL RACISM AND ALSO DEVOID OF BLACK PEOPLE, SO IT'D BE CONFUSING TO HAVE BLACK PEOPLE THERE. ALSO WE COULDN'T ADDRESS ANY ISSUES OF RACE WITH THEM AROUND SO WE LEFT THEM OUT INSTEAD, KEEPING IN THE VERY ACCURATE RACIAL PROBLEMS WE HAD WITH... I DUNNO, ELVES OR SOME SHIT?" has a shoddy knowledge of history, doesn't make it historically accurate. But that sentence sums up all my problems with what went down.

Wasn't the Witcher based on stories from Poland or something? Stories set in the Middle Ages or further back?

[RobinStarwing]

So an update, it seems Black Chicken Studios put in some alternate flag markings to suit the needs of others. Germany has the WW1/Inter-war Period colors of black, white, and red.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

It depends on the game and what it's trying to do. Historical Accuracy can be a fun way to learn about history. Bringing certain time periods to life to play out how things were recorded to be like before. Or as a reminder of the mistakes of the past in an artistic way to convey a message about learning from and preventing those mistakes from happening again. Or simply just an interactive documentary.

Though there's more creative freedom in simply just being historically inspired. Exploring and messing around with the setting and time period the game is based off of without worrying about being super accurate. Can lead to some very interesting concepts.

[Marc v4.0]

Wasn't the Witcher based on stories from Poland or something? Stories set in the Middle Ages or further back?

They feature mythical creatures and aspects of folklore from across the globe, people reach for the 'Polish History!' branch and ignore everything else.

Considering they think that shouting 'Medieval Poland!' is a valid argument against having any people of color in the game illustrates how little they actually care about historical accuracy.

[RobinStarwing]

They feature mythical creatures and aspects of folklore from across the globe, people reach for the 'Polish History!' branch and ignore everything else.

Considering they think that shouting 'Medieval Poland!' is a valid argument against having any people of color in the game illustrates how little they actually care about historical accuracy.

I was just repeating what I have heard. :ohdear:

However, many mythical creatures follow certain base archetypes. The Vampire for example can trace it's origin in Mesopotamian Myths of the Lilutu; sharing in common the most ancient tales of the Succubus in pointing towards a being named Lilith and her daughters. Arguably, this myth could account for Succubi and Incubi as well. Dragons are another example that can be found worldwide. Than we have that Shapeshifters exist in all folklore.

EDIT: Also, many myths and legends; while similar, also hold a Cultural Identity for the people recounting the myth/story around the creature. Again, see the red text below.

EDIT 2: We could probably do a whole thread topic of it's own on Symbology and Mythologies referenced in Video games @_@

Keep in mind, I have never played The Witcher so what I am spewing here is stuff I know about offhand...and some I had to look up to get my bearings straight and see how fuzzy my memory was. Someone with more experience with the game can maybe tell me what is going on and what creatures show up in the games specifically..

[greed]

People moved around a lot more in those days than people tend to think. If you're actually being historically accurate to period Eastern Europe you'd have had a lot more Central Asians at the very least. And a fair smattering of Africans and Middle Easterners. and probably some vestiges of the old Khanates in the area.

Like the whiteness didn't actually bother me in Witcher but if they tried defending it with 'historical accuracy' that's just, well, wrong.