Ritual and Spirituality
 

So I decided that since I'm now posting here on an off, I would share a train of thought I've been having about religious stuff. If it violates the rules, go ahead and close it, but I think it's in the clear so long as nobody tries to make it into an antagonistic thing.

Generally speaking, I've self described lately as non-theist. I don't really believe in the supernatural. However, I have nothing against anyone who does. Whether it's god or satan or angels or demons or buddha or ghosts, I respect others beliefs in the supernatural even though I don't share them.

I do mean respect, because even today there's still a part of me that wishes I believed, because there's a lot of appeal. Not appeal in regards to religion, but the appeal of spirituality and ritual.

A lot of things that people attribute to spiritual things, I see as their beliefs interacting with their world. Their beliefs are a context, a lens through which their reality is viewed and thus changed.

Someone tells a story about a time they were prompted by the spirit, for example, and it saved a life or a flat tire or a pet. From my perspective, it's them trusting their gut. Their spirituality not only makes it easier to trust their gut instincts, but actively encourages it. This can be a very good thing. The positive effects of spirituality regardless of whether the supernatural exists.

Interpreting tarot cards can help us organize thoughts and think about things we might not have or from angles we hadn't considered. Prayer helps us vocalize, even internally, our wants and concerns, and in return there is the feeling that those wants and concerns matter.

So, as I said, I don't believe in the supernatural, but I kinda want to, and there are benefits to a lot of stuff different belief systems encourage.

Obviously even atheists or non-theists can and often do find other ways of accomplishing similar things. But the framing is alluring to me.

So, in addition to my two wonderful owners, I've got a miss in Boston that I love a lot, and she worships Lilith. I asked her to talk to me a bit about what that meant for her, and she did, and she also linked this to me.

So, after reading that and doing a lot of thinking, I decided that Lilith would be the focus of my spirituality. From my perspective, she isn't real, but many of the things she embodies appeal to me, and treating her as my object of worship provides a nice context for ritual.

Lighting incense, playing calming ambient music, saying a quick prayer, and taking a hot bath while I contemplate Lilith. It's self care. It helps me relax and deal with the day better. The spirituality is just a context that aids it. Even if I don't really believe.

It's really hard to articulate this stuff so it may come off as rather weird, but I've been thinking about it a lot today and I thought I'd share these thoughts and see what others had to say or if anyone else did anything similar or if other atheists/non-theists recognize the value of ritual.

Eh, I'm a full-on super science spaz. Only believe in the literal and so on.

And I meditate.

I'll sit, listen to someone lead on about chakras and auras and whatever else they're focusing on.

And meditate.

I don't really believe in chi, or chakras, or auras, but I can definitely see where you're coming from. The human psyche seems rather well adapted to rituals, and little things like these can establish some sort of stability or grounding point in the day. I can be absolutely broken after a hellish day / week / month / year as is the wont of the sciences, and twenty minutes with a soothing voice, an appropriate sense of detachment, and self-focus, and I'm ready to do it again and again.

I find solace in the finality of entropy. People, ideas, concepts, gods. everything in the end reaches the all encompassing inevitability.

The concept of life after death is just unappealing through and through. I hate people while living, why would I want to be stuck with 'em in another state of being? Such a cheerful outlook!

I am a spiritual person, but my rituals are very unusual. I am gnostic, to us knowledge is the path to enlightenment. Thus studying and analyzing information is our worship. Invoking God is more to work out ideas than to ask for intervention while worship is more for an ideal to achieve. Honestly I found praying for intervention abit arrogant. God isn't going to rewrite reality simply because I asked nicely.

I do not dismiss superstition out of hand. There is much of this universe we do not understand so I wont assume there is nothing to it. Besides if you think about chaos theory, technically every action we take does affect the outcome of events. Maybe not in the way you intend, but every choice we make affects everything else. Just because you dont believe in divine intervention doesn't change the fact those few minutes you took to light some candles was the difference between a safe trip and a car slamming into you.

I think rituals you make up for yourself are the only ones that matter. Same thing with what you choose to believe. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's your own choice it's going to work. Results are important, right? And what do you want to accomplish with what you believe? I imagine if you remove it of all pretense what you want is to reach inside to the control machinery of your mind and improve the way you think and feel.

Imagine, if you will, your mind trying to conceptualize its own non-material structure. I like to picture it as a negative space of legos myself. You can't see your own eye or be conscious of your own psyche, as the saying goes, but you can deal with it the same way the human brain's remarkable ability to fill in a blind spot always does, by tracing its outline, determining the exact shape of what it's not, and subtracting. If you've got a lego building - a hollow one - it doesn't matter if you can't see it but only touch it and it doesn't matter if it's the most complex structure in the entire known universe next to the universe itself, if you take the time you can still feel out the shape of the space within it.

That's a bit of a sidetrack. I think what I'm trying to say is the process of pushing, twisting, bending or even rebuilding this structure is completely possible. All you need is the tools to perceive and interpret and interact with it. And you can build those tools yourself. The mind is that powerful! If you can just conceptualize what you're trying to do. And if you have to invoke Lilith or Entropy or whatever you can believe in it doesn't matter as long as they can get the job done.

Me, I'm a Humanist. I believe in us, in what we can do, what we can make, what we can dream, what we can become, where we can go. I decided that rather than believing in nothing, this belief would give my thoughts and my heart wings; fill my days with joy and meaning and make everyone feel - to some degree - that they were believed in. It's working pretty well for me.

more or less; good luck on your search for a connection
 

Pretty much. Folks keep being civil and open-minded, and religion can be discussed however you'd like.


I typically describe myself as an agnostic. I cannot be an atheist, but I think it's rather naive to claim any of our religions necessarily "has it right". For all we know, they draw from a common truth in their own ways, just as they all have, in my opinion, their own flaws and logical holes. But, then, that is why the concept of "faith" is quite relevant.

However, I think regardless of the various views folks have it can be agreed that ritual, to borrow your word, has a place in probably everyone's lives.

Seriously can't think of anything.
 

Nope.

I didn't even mean religious or spiritual ritual, but that doesn't mean I doubt you.
 

This post appeals to the anti-theist in me.


So does this one.

Any ideology based on the destruction of all opposing view points is horrific to me.

Why cant we all just accept different beliefs, why do so many feel there has to be a single "correct" one. No not just that there is a correct one, but that all others must cease to exist.

It's pretty great, really. It's not like I'm screaming YOUR GOD IS DEAD, ACCEPT IT! it's more of a 'believe what you want, I'll be dead eventually so I just don't give a damn about it. just don't force the bullshit on me while I'm trying to enjoy my brief window of existence' kinda thing.

Do note: I use bullshit in the loosest sense here 'cause I just like using the term. nothing more nothing less.

On the first, not since I was like, I unno, a little kid. I'm not sure which was the last birthday I did it during. Though if I remember right, even then I didn't actually make wishes.

Like it was blow out your candles and make a wish, in the hope it will come true, but I only remember blowing them out because that's a thing people wanted me to do before we had cake. It was part of the party. It was a social thing. So I blew out the candles for the sake of the birthday party and getting everyone their cake, but I knew no wish was going to come true from it (and knew no one would really ask what I wished for 'cause 'if you tell anyone it won't happen'), so I just didn't make one.

On the second, not really. I'll tense up during purely/mostly luck based situations, but it's not like I think clenching up or thinking 'c'monnn' is going to make it happen like with prayer or crossing your fingers. It's just I want something to happen and know I have no real power over it so I can't do anything, so, occasionally when lost in the moment I tense. Like my body's getting ready to do something but there's nothing to do.

I just don't feel it counts as 'ritual' in the way Kim was describing because, well crossing your fingers is a kind of attempt to make it happen, prayer is an attempt to get some greater being to make it happen, blowing on the dice before you roll them is an attempt to make them land right. For me it's just the equivalent of sitting at the edge of your seat. It's just 'is it gonna happen, I hope it happens' and then either 'woo it happened' or 'well, shit'.

And I just can't think of anything I do that would really count for this.

Well I do have habits that I partake of most days, but I don't think they're really ritual in the way Kim was talking about?

Like, I take a piss and brush my teeth immediately before bed most nights, but that doesn't have anything spiritual to it. It's just so I don't eat between brushing and bed, and I'm less likely to have to get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom.

I transfer my keys, wallet, and all that stuff to a new pair of pants as soon as the old one's not going to be worn, but I don't gain any kind of comfort from doing so. I just avoid having to look for my keys the next day.

But none of it feels spiritual or anything. It's just things I do because they actually, physically, make life slightly easier if I do them, not to make myself FEEL like it makes life better.

basically I think we all have our own rituals in some ways, though not nec. spiritual
 

I was left wondering the other day; I went over to a friend's house to help him with his network which I had been putting off for weeks. I finally said hey I have time, let's do this, and went over there. Around the corner from his place my car started making a horrible noise. Managed to get it into his driveway. Turns out the tensioner assembly fried itself on the way over just outside of his apartment. Well this friend of mine happens to be a mechanic and I had gotten my tax return the day before this happened.

So had I done this network stuff on time, my car would have had to be towed. Had I not gotten to it that day, my car would have had to be towed. It broke down out front of my friend/mechanic's house just after I got the money to buy all the parts I needed. Every single possible thing that could have come into play did, all at the right time. And I was left thinking, "Huh. Maybe they're not all crazy."

Not that I actually believe some supreme being oversaw the whole ordeal, but it gave me insight to the motivations of the believers and such. It was actually kind of enlightening.

Heard the mindset I have is called an apatheist. Whom cannot be bothered to believe in higher powers because they don't particularly think it aids them much. Don't actively disbelieve anything like an atheist either because they also don't believe there is a worth in trying to disprove spirituality.

On the other hand I do have wholly unfounded beliefs that I stick handily to because without them I would be a neurotic mess. I believe in the potential to overcome any form of death with enough understanding of the concepts that cause it, from human aging to the heat death of the universe I believe in the capacity for an insignificant group of specks to be capable of escaping or repairing anything along those lines.

Because if I didn't I'd have to acknowledge death and that is somewhat beyond me.

In this sense I have undue faith in both the idea of extropianism and post-humanism. Hoping that they will save me from something I don't particularly desire to face. This is mostly a psychological coping mechanism, but it gets me by.

I am severely lacking in general ritual though. I mean I try to live by a schedule but since my life is so chaotic I can't even really do that. Everything goes haywire and the best I can hope for is to remain loose and pragmatic or I'll end up sinking below the weight of it all.

Back in the day though I used to head to church with the family, and while I didn't much facilitate there was something simple about Catholic mass that helped me try to organize my thoughts. Kneel and pray, be seated, repeat after me, respond after His name, end with amen, sing this song, listen to the preacher make somewhat modern re-evalutions of the word and how they partain to your personal morality, take the sacrament. Repeat. Mechanical and adaptive all at once, let me disconnect a lot. Though I also skipped on a lot of them because I tended toward the same thing staring into the nothingness from my front porch. And these days I mostly do it by having long conversations with myself about my issues. I can see the profit in it though.