Ritual and Spirituality

[Kim]

So I decided that since I'm now posting here on an off, I would share a train of thought I've been having about religious stuff. If it violates the rules, go ahead and close it, but I think it's in the clear so long as nobody tries to make it into an antagonistic thing.

Generally speaking, I've self described lately as non-theist. I don't really believe in the supernatural. However, I have nothing against anyone who does. Whether it's god or satan or angels or demons or buddha or ghosts, I respect others beliefs in the supernatural even though I don't share them.

I do mean respect, because even today there's still a part of me that wishes I believed, because there's a lot of appeal. Not appeal in regards to religion, but the appeal of spirituality and ritual.

A lot of things that people attribute to spiritual things, I see as their beliefs interacting with their world. Their beliefs are a context, a lens through which their reality is viewed and thus changed.

Someone tells a story about a time they were prompted by the spirit, for example, and it saved a life or a flat tire or a pet. From my perspective, it's them trusting their gut. Their spirituality not only makes it easier to trust their gut instincts, but actively encourages it. This can be a very good thing. The positive effects of spirituality regardless of whether the supernatural exists.

Interpreting tarot cards can help us organize thoughts and think about things we might not have or from angles we hadn't considered. Prayer helps us vocalize, even internally, our wants and concerns, and in return there is the feeling that those wants and concerns matter.

So, as I said, I don't believe in the supernatural, but I kinda want to, and there are benefits to a lot of stuff different belief systems encourage.

Obviously even atheists or non-theists can and often do find other ways of accomplishing similar things. But the framing is alluring to me.

So, in addition to my two wonderful owners, I've got a miss in Boston that I love a lot, and she worships Lilith. I asked her to talk to me a bit about what that meant for her, and she did, and she also linked this to me.

So, after reading that and doing a lot of thinking, I decided that Lilith would be the focus of my spirituality. From my perspective, she isn't real, but many of the things she embodies appeal to me, and treating her as my object of worship provides a nice context for ritual.

Lighting incense, playing calming ambient music, saying a quick prayer, and taking a hot bath while I contemplate Lilith. It's self care. It helps me relax and deal with the day better. The spirituality is just a context that aids it. Even if I don't really believe.

It's really hard to articulate this stuff so it may come off as rather weird, but I've been thinking about it a lot today and I thought I'd share these thoughts and see what others had to say or if anyone else did anything similar or if other atheists/non-theists recognize the value of ritual.

[McTahr]

Eh, I'm a full-on super science spaz. Only believe in the literal and so on.

And I meditate.

I'll sit, listen to someone lead on about chakras and auras and whatever else they're focusing on.

And meditate.

I don't really believe in chi, or chakras, or auras, but I can definitely see where you're coming from. The human psyche seems rather well adapted to rituals, and little things like these can establish some sort of stability or grounding point in the day. I can be absolutely broken after a hellish day / week / month / year as is the wont of the sciences, and twenty minutes with a soothing voice, an appropriate sense of detachment, and self-focus, and I'm ready to do it again and again.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

I find solace in the finality of entropy. People, ideas, concepts, gods. everything in the end reaches the all encompassing inevitability.

The concept of life after death is just unappealing through and through. I hate people while living, why would I want to be stuck with 'em in another state of being? Such a cheerful outlook!

[Aerozord]

I am a spiritual person, but my rituals are very unusual. I am gnostic, to us knowledge is the path to enlightenment. Thus studying and analyzing information is our worship. Invoking God is more to work out ideas than to ask for intervention while worship is more for an ideal to achieve. Honestly I found praying for intervention abit arrogant. God isn't going to rewrite reality simply because I asked nicely.

I do not dismiss superstition out of hand. There is much of this universe we do not understand so I wont assume there is nothing to it. Besides if you think about chaos theory, technically every action we take does affect the outcome of events. Maybe not in the way you intend, but every choice we make affects everything else. Just because you dont believe in divine intervention doesn't change the fact those few minutes you took to light some candles was the difference between a safe trip and a car slamming into you.

[Amake]

I think rituals you make up for yourself are the only ones that matter. Same thing with what you choose to believe. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's your own choice it's going to work. Results are important, right? And what do you want to accomplish with what you believe? I imagine if you remove it of all pretense what you want is to reach inside to the control machinery of your mind and improve the way you think and feel.

Imagine, if you will, your mind trying to conceptualize its own non-material structure. I like to picture it as a negative space of legos myself. You can't see your own eye or be conscious of your own psyche, as the saying goes, but you can deal with it the same way the human brain's remarkable ability to fill in a blind spot always does, by tracing its outline, determining the exact shape of what it's not, and subtracting. If you've got a lego building - a hollow one - it doesn't matter if you can't see it but only touch it and it doesn't matter if it's the most complex structure in the entire known universe next to the universe itself, if you take the time you can still feel out the shape of the space within it.

That's a bit of a sidetrack. I think what I'm trying to say is the process of pushing, twisting, bending or even rebuilding this structure is completely possible. All you need is the tools to perceive and interpret and interact with it. And you can build those tools yourself. The mind is that powerful! If you can just conceptualize what you're trying to do. And if you have to invoke Lilith or Entropy or whatever you can believe in it doesn't matter as long as they can get the job done.

Me, I'm a Humanist. I believe in us, in what we can do, what we can make, what we can dream, what we can become, where we can go. I decided that rather than believing in nothing, this belief would give my thoughts and my heart wings; fill my days with joy and meaning and make everyone feel - to some degree - that they were believed in. It's working pretty well for me.

[synkr0nized]

Originally Posted by Kim

it's in the clear so long as nobody tries to make it into an antagonistic thing.

Pretty much. Folks keep being civil and open-minded, and religion can be discussed however you'd like.


I typically describe myself as an agnostic. I cannot be an atheist, but I think it's rather naive to claim any of our religions necessarily "has it right". For all we know, they draw from a common truth in their own ways, just as they all have, in my opinion, their own flaws and logical holes. But, then, that is why the concept of "faith" is quite relevant.

However, I think regardless of the various views folks have it can be agreed that ritual, to borrow your word, has a place in probably everyone's lives.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by synkr0nized

However, I think regardless of the various views folks have it can be agreed that ritual, to borrow your word, has a place in probably everyone's lives.

Nope.

[synkr0nized]

Not even in the loosest sense, such as blowing out candles on a birthday cake, crossing your fingers for something, or just behavior patterns that you've adopted (e.g. a morning routine, laying stuff out for the next day before going to bed, anything like that)?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Originally Posted by Grandmaster_Skweeb

I find solace in the finality of entropy. People, ideas, concepts, gods. everything in the end reaches the all encompassing inevitability.

The concept of life after death is just unappealing through and through. I hate people while living, why would I want to be stuck with 'em in another state of being? Such a cheerful outlook!

This post appeals to the anti-theist in me.

Originally Posted by Krylo

Nope.

So does this one.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by Hawk

This post appeals to the anti-theist in me.

Any ideology based on the destruction of all opposing view points is horrific to me.

Why cant we all just accept different beliefs, why do so many feel there has to be a single "correct" one. No not just that there is a correct one, but that all others must cease to exist.