Crimson Echoes

[EVILNess]

Originally Posted by Kroze Gamegod

Then where is the line drawn?

Something like DBZ Abridged or YuGiOh Abridged falls squarely under parody in copyright law. Since it's, you know, a parody.

Something like this is quite honestly no contest.

On the one hand SE could argue that it might damage their ability to use the IP in the future and it very well could if in the unlikely event that they show up SE with their own IP like with the whole 3d remake thing they had going before. It would have theoretically trumped the original in graphics, gameplay, etc.

On the other hand, it is fan-fiction and honestly, probably, harmless.

However, douche move or not fanfiction kinda violates three tenants of copyright, Reproduction, Adaptation (i.e. creation of derivative work i.e. to the i.e FANFICTION), and Distribution to the public.

In short, they have a right to protect their characters like rabid dogs fighting over a bone. They aren't wrong, no matter what the internet's culture of self entitlement says.

I might also add that if these guys are such hotshot game makers then why are they hacking a SNES rpg and not making the next proverbial Chrono Trigger.

[Mirai Gen]

I've said my part herein and don't have much more to add, but I'm going to throw this out here --

Originally Posted by Mike McC

You know, I could literally say the almost exact same thing about, for example, Bayonetta, and still be entirely accurate. Just replace 'YouTube' with 'trailer' and 'based on something' with 'made by a creator'.

That is an ridiculous, absurd exaggeration and you know it.

[Mike McC]

Originally Posted by Mirai Gen

I've said my part herein and don't have much more to add, but I'm going to throw this out here --

That is an ridiculous, absurd exaggeration and you know it.

No, it really is not. The paragraph works EXACTLY the same way. It says nothing of why fangames are bad; it says everything of why hype for any game in general is bad. It is not a well constructed argument.

[Jagos]

Yes, because hype for a game doesn't get us excited nor tell us about something that might be great if it never finishes.

[CelesJessa]

However, douche move or not fanfiction kinda violates three tenants of copyright, Reproduction, Adaptation (i.e. creation of derivative work i.e. to the i.e FANFICTION), and Distribution to the public.

In short, they have a right to protect their characters like rabid dogs fighting over a bone. They aren't wrong, no matter what the internet's culture of self entitlement says.

Well, technically you can still think they're wrong. Yes, they legally have the right to protect their work but if you don't agree with those copyright laws then you can still think the whole system is wrong. Being legal doesn't automatically make it not wrong.

Man, I am such a hippy.

[Token]

Originally Posted by CelesJessa

Well, technically you can still think they're wrong. Yes, they legally have the right to protect their work but if you don't agree with those copyright laws then you can still think the whole system is wrong. Being legal doesn't automatically make it not wrong.

Man, I am such a hippy.

As nice as that sounds, the problem is that copyright laws are meant to help the creators, who (in the case of a rom hack at least* I'm being hypocritical here, there's nothing I love more than a good Pokemon hack ) out much more effort into making a game than a few fans who sat back and tweaked the code a bit. I can understand why people would think that's not right, but from the point of view of the original creators, it is right.

Hopefully that made sense, I just woke up. If it didn't, sorry. :/

[CelesJessa]

Originally Posted by Token

As nice as that sounds, the problem is that copyright laws are meant to help the creators, who (in the case of a rom hack at least* I'm being hypocritical here, there's nothing I love more than a good Pokemon hack ) out much more effort into making a game than a few fans who sat back and tweaked the code a bit. I can understand why people would think that's not right, but from the point of view of the original creators, it is right.

Hopefully that made sense, I just woke up. If it didn't, sorry. :/

I understand, I was just saying that there are people, both creators and people who enjoy creations, that don't agree with copyright laws (it's not just an "internet culture" thing. My computer art/video art professor rants about this all the time and there are lots of fights about appropriation and copyright laws.) therefor, in their eyes, they can still think the the whole thing is wrong.

EDIT: clarification: It's totally okay for Square to think it's right, but it's also okay for people to think it's wrong too.

[Locke cole]

Originally Posted by EVILNess

Something like DBZ Abridged or YuGiOh Abridged falls squarely under parody in copyright law. Since it's, you know, a parody.

Something like this is quite honestly no contest.

On the one hand SE could argue that it might damage their ability to use the IP in the future and it very well could if in the unlikely event that they show up SE with their own IP like with the whole 3d remake thing they had going before. It would have theoretically trumped the original in graphics, gameplay, etc.

On the other hand, it is fan-fiction and honestly, probably, harmless.

However, douche move or not fanfiction kinda violates three tenants of copyright, Reproduction, Adaptation (i.e. creation of derivative work i.e. to the i.e FANFICTION), and Distribution to the public.

In short, they have a right to protect their characters like rabid dogs fighting over a bone. They aren't wrong, no matter what the internet's culture of self entitlement says.

I might also add that if these guys are such hotshot game makers then why are they hacking a SNES rpg and not making the next proverbial Chrono Trigger.

...yeah, gonna have to agree with this guy.

[Nikose Tyris]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Edit: Nik: No, "stigma" is an appropriate word. There's a real disdain for people who decompile code from other programs to use in their own. An engine can be legitimately purchased, and I have NO idea what I said to indicate that programmers didn't recycle code as much as humanly possible. On the other hand, they recycle code they have the legal rights to, or else they'd get sued.

See I was hoping you wouldn't continue this argument and just drop it. Now look what you've done. EvilNESS covered one angle, I'll cover the other.

Actual companies don't give two damns about code-theft, blues. Most companies don't HAVE unique code, it's just old code assembled in a new way. It's the Havok engine how many times over in every game? You think that every company is going to use the same engine in a unique way every time?

Ever wonder why the character models in Bionic Commando and X-Men Origins: Wolverine move in, essentially, the EXACT same way? Why they look so similar in motion and pose that they could be the identical model, reskinned?

Code is borrowed, recycled, reused over and over. Choice bits of code are given to publishers sometimes to be disseminated, too- I've played the middleman between a company and Nintendo trying to work out a minor motion bug. Even the Consoles have recycled code that's shared between companies.

Originally Posted by Blues

And no, maybe I'm not a "real" game designer, but I'm in the process of designing my own games and can say, personally, that if someone went about mucking around with the resources I've spent the past three years creating, I'd be a wee bit pissed, ESPECIALLY if they used it to create another game. Maybe it's because I'm a small time schmuck, but those resources are mine; I made them. It would be a real kick in the balls if someone just up and stole all my tiles to make another game from. Every last one of them was hand done by me for my own purposes. If I wanted other people to use them, I'd have posted them as a sprite sheet somewhere and been done with it by now.

Edit: And to be specific, no, I have absolutely nothing against fanfiction so long as it's not in the same format. 8-Bit is by no means a video game, so there's no problem with Brian doing it. Conversely, I think Brian would be pretty flattered if someone whipped up a decent Atomic Robo game, as it wouldn't be competing with his market. On the other hand, if someone started up a competing site called 16-Bit Theater and started copying his 8BT comics with 16-bit sprites, I think he'd be rightfully pissed.

Which relates to this scenario not at all, since you're currently USING your shit and not letting it sit for 8 god damn years.

But IF somebody did it, hey, it's your right to get pissed off if one of your sprites shows up in a game. Now, if you were designing your game in something other then RPGcreator I'm sure that I'd call you a game designer, but right now you're more something more of a... tweaker. Yeah, that's a good word. You're playing a game that's about making games, essentially. [PS It's okay, being a game designer is a really shitty job. Don't aspire to it.]

Edit: And I think he'd be incredibly pissed of someone made an Atomic Robo game without his permission and started profiting off it because that's a stupid example all together. You clearly lack any idea of what 'fanfiction' means and are confusing it with 'ripping off'.

http://fanfiction.net <-- There's fanfiction here.

I don't think "16 Bit Theatre" would be anything but idea theft.

[Locke cole]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

I don't think "16 Bit Theatre" would be anything but idea theft.

I'll say!

That Captain SNES guy worked hard on that crossover parody!