Brians Superman Post

[Fifthfiend]

This Superman hasn't quoted Henry fucking Thoreau at anybody while telling them to go get themselves shot, he's pretty much an improvement.

Originally Posted by Odjn

I mean I hate Superman because he's a terrible character and his morality, like every other major DC superhero except like, Wonder Woman, is stupid as hell so I could care less.

If only Superman would just KILL Lex Luthor... he'd come back in a few years anyway, just like that guy who Wonder Woman decapitated a few years ago who just came back.

[Odjn]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

If only Superman would just KILL Lex Luthor... he'd come back in a few years anyway, just like that guy who Wonder Woman decapitated a few years ago who just came back.

Basically this. Superman is like "Killing is wrong ever" and he constantly keeps saying that despite, you know, being wrong. When Wonder Woman (ha 3 Ws in a roW) barely survived fighting him when Lord had him mentally controlled, and discovered there was no way to stop Lord if he was alive, she snapped his neck and BAM everyone was better off. Then he and Batman yelled at her for doing so when it was pretty much the only way.

I mean I'll excuse Batman that behavior towards the Joker because Batman is quite literally insane and manipulates even those around him, those he cares about, as pawns in his plots and lives to punish street level criminals because he never moved on from his parents' death turning him into like, the most emotionally stunted man alive, but Superman is supposed to be idealistic. And the type of idealism he is, is naive idealism- there's always a GOOD way of doing things and there's no questioning of it that's valid.

Additionally he's a really dumb fighter. He can move as fast as the Flash but rarely does, and really whenever there's a Doomsday-esque threat, unless it also has near light speed movement, should be defeated within seconds because Superman could punch 1000000000 times a second. Because he can move at lightspeed and punch that fast. He has laser eyes and can use them all the time- and should!- but rarely does. He has all that power and he can't even use it right.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by Odjn

Basically this. Superman is like "Killing is wrong ever" and he constantly keeps saying that despite, you know, being wrong.

He's got a pretty stellar track record. It's hard to argue with a guy who has saved reality multiple times and saved babies while doing it. I would say he isp pretty much contiually proven correct.

[Odjn]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

He's got a pretty stellar track record. It's hard to argue with a guy who has saved reality multiple times and saved babies while doing it. I would say he isp pretty much contiually proven correct.

Hey let's kill the Joker.

HEY LOOK THE JOKER ISN'T KILLING PEOPLE ANYMORE.

Hey look Maxwell Lord turned like, the most powerful superhuman into his telepathic slave? Let's kill him.

WOOP WORLD SAVED.

Also a great deal of the things his morality solves are contrived anyway so that he can solve it without killing or doing anything morally dubious.

[Fifthfiend]

I mean we already did this on the fartzorarium but that never happened so I'll resay it here.

Originally Posted by Odjn

Also a great deal of the things his morality solves are contrived anyway so that he can solve it without killing or doing anything morally dubious.

You're making an argument against contrivance which relies entirely on contrivance, because the biggest, dumbest, most relentless contrivance of superhero comics is that you put people in a high security prison, and then of the people in that prison, any of them can just walk out of it any time he wants, because ~lolz~.

There's nothing wrong with Superman's morality because in 'non-contrived' comics he just puts people in jail and they stay there, and in 'contrived' comics people escape death as easily as jail, because characters coming back has nothing to do with Superman's (or Batman's) morality and everything to do with the fact that writers want to write comics about Lex Luthor and the Joker.

If everything in comics is contrived - which it is - then the only differences is whether your contrivances serve the characters or break them, and contrivances which contrive to have Superman adhere to his perfectly reasonable morality do the former, and contrivances which throw that out in order to accomplish, ultimately, nothing different than if he did adhere to his morality, don't.

EDIT It's worth noting that every version of "Superman except he also murders" has not-incidentally been terrible, except for Apollo and that was only because of the heartwarming lulzy assfucking.

[Odjn]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

I mean we already did this on the fartzorarium but that never happened so I'll resay it here.



You're making an argument against contrivance which relies entirely on contrivance, because the biggest, dumbest, most relentless contrivance of superhero comics is that you put people in a high security prison, and then of the people in that prison, any of them can just walk out of it any time he wants, because ~lolz~.

There's nothing wrong with Superman's morality because in 'non-contrived' comics he just puts people in jail and they stay there, and in 'contrived' comics people escape death as easily as jail, because characters coming back has nothing to do with Superman's (or Batman's) morality and everything to do with the fact that writers want to write comics about Lex Luthor and the Joker.

If everything in comics is contrived - which it is - then the only differences is whether your contrivances serve the characters or break them, and contrivances which contrive to have Superman adhere to his perfectly reasonable morality do the former, and contrivances which throw that out in order to accomplish, ultimately, nothing different than if he did adhere to his morality, don't.

EDIT It's worth noting that every version of "Superman except he also murders" has not-incidentally been terrible, except for Apollo and that was only because of the heartwarming lulzy assfucking.

That's what Black Adam is and we love him for it.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Odjn

Basically this.

Originally Posted by Odjn

Everything else Odjn says.

You missed like, the entire point of that thing I said that you quoted.

That guy that Wonder Woman killed, isn't dead.

The world is, thanks to Wonder Woman's act of murder, in no way whatsoever safer from Maxwell Lord. Who is alive, and like, out there endangering the world.