"Ladies And Gentlemen, The CCC" or "White Power!"

Seil · 06-18-2011, 08:57 AM

Who are different than the KKK because... their acronym comes earlier in the racist alphabet? Really, who could be so ignorant, hate-filled and close-minded to...

Oh... rich white men. Nevermind.

Seriously, there's the Westboro thing (which spreads hate and ignorance no matter what they believe) and The Klan.

These guys are all talking about "Freedom of speech." How can the government allow them to be openly racist or protest against the rights and freedoms of others? Aren't there laws in place to protect against that sorta thing?

Ecks · 06-18-2011, 09:07 AM

It's because whenever the words "freedom of speech" are thrown around, the government loses its mind and doesn't know what to do unless someone has the balls to actually come up and say, "Uh, no, just because there's freedom of speech does not actually give you the right to run around saying racist and discriminatory things, because that's actually infringing on someone else's right to not have to put up with that bullshit."

And, obligatory:

Krylo · 06-18-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EckScizor

"Uh, no, just because there's freedom of speech does not actually give you the right to run around saying racist and discriminatory things, because that's actually infringing on someone else's right to not have to put up with that bullshit."

Actually that is exactly what freedom of speech means, and it needs to keep meaning that because when you start dialing it back on the basis of infringing on someone's right to not put up with your speech... well rich white old men are in power everywhere.

Where do you THINK that leads?

Hint: Not a world free of racist dickbags!

Ecks · 06-18-2011, 09:27 AM

Then perhaps there should be public outcry? If the government cannot stand up to them on the basis of "if we intercede here, where will we stop afterward?" then the public themselves needs to go and exercise their freedom of speech to bash on these haters of racial and gender equality.

TDK · 06-18-2011, 09:43 AM

They do. That is pretty much the only response to these groups.

Seil · 06-18-2011, 10:35 AM

Way back when, in (high school) law, I heard that you were free to exercise your rights whenever you pleased to a degree. For instance, you can practice your right to free speech in a crowded movie theater, but the patrons of said theater have the right to see the movie in peace, so you get kicked out.

Certainly these arses have the right to say whatever they please, but the groups that they're quite literally slandering/attacking have the right to be represented fairly.

I mean the Westboro Baptist Church registered the URL 'Godhatesfags.' That cannot be justified as "Freedom of Speech."

TDK · 06-18-2011, 10:41 AM

Yes.

Yes it can.

Seil · 06-18-2011, 11:02 AM

But it's derrogatory, it's verbally abusive to a part of the American citizenship. If it was brought into court, I imagine that language wouldn't be the most heinous of crimes, but these groups are blatantly racist and they do act on it fairly regularly... It's abuse.

Lumenskir · 06-18-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

For instance, you can practice your right to free speech in a crowded movie theater, but the patrons of said theater have the right to see the movie in peace, so you get kicked out.

The kicking out would fall more under the private right of the theater to revoke the license it gave to you to enter. You wouldn't be dealing with constitutional free speech issues there.

Also, a great thing to remember is that some of the things you say are probably shocking to the core of somebody out there. You shouldn't really be able to cherry pick what is 'decent' enough to be protected.

And really, they have the freedom of speech, you have the freedom to ignore.

Quote:

It's abuse

...Nah. Morally repugnant, but not abusive.

I mean, under that criteria we'd probably have to charge these guys with the same exact 'crime', although they're targeting a smaller selection of citizens.

Geminex · 06-18-2011, 08:25 PM

Seil, the problem is that that's all subjective. There's no objective, unbiased scale of "acceptable" and "not acceptable". It has to be either absolute free speech, or you run the risk of free speech being curtailed by government under the guise of any number of reasons. Sure, people say asshole things. But I'd rather have assholes spouting asshole things, than the government having the ability to restrict a people's right to criticize it. Because eventually, it'd make use of that ability, little by little. Slippery slope. And the change wouldn't even be drastic, but it'd be there. Hell, look at China. There's a lot of similarities between their society and ours, it isn't a super-repressive dictatorship. And yet, free speech is practically nil, and the government does what it wants. That is to be avoided, and the best way to do that is to declare free speech an untouchable ideal.

Mind you, there's exceptions. Here in Germanland, holocaust denial and expressing support for the Nazi regime are punishable by, I think, up to 5 years in prison. But the historical justification for that particular instance is so strong, I very much doubt there's any potential for abuse there.

06-18-2011, 08:57 AM	#1
Seil Super stressed! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: British Columbia Posts: 8,081	"Ladies And Gentlemen, The CCC" or "White Power!" Who are different than the KKK because... their acronym comes earlier in the racist alphabet? Really, who could be so ignorant, hate-filled and close-minded to... Oh... rich white men. Nevermind. Seriously, there's the Westboro thing (which spreads hate and ignorance no matter what they believe) and The Klan. These guys are all talking about "Freedom of speech." How can the government allow them to be openly racist or protest against the rights and freedoms of others? Aren't there laws in place to protect against that sorta thing?

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06-18-2011, 09:43 AM	#5
TDK Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reality Posts: 2,914	They do. That is pretty much the only response to these groups.

06-18-2011, 10:35 AM	#6
Seil Super stressed! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: British Columbia Posts: 8,081	Way back when, in (high school) law, I heard that you were free to exercise your rights whenever you pleased to a degree. For instance, you can practice your right to free speech in a crowded movie theater, but the patrons of said theater have the right to see the movie in peace, so you get kicked out. Certainly these arses have the right to say whatever they please, but the groups that they're quite literally slandering/attacking have the right to be represented fairly. I mean the Westboro Baptist Church registered the URL 'Godhatesfags.' That cannot be justified as "Freedom of Speech."

06-18-2011, 10:41 AM	#7
TDK Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reality Posts: 2,914	Yes. Yes it can.

06-18-2011, 11:02 AM	#8
Seil Super stressed! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: British Columbia Posts: 8,081	But it's derrogatory, it's verbally abusive to a part of the American citizenship. If it was brought into court, I imagine that language wouldn't be the most heinous of crimes, but these groups are blatantly racist and they do act on it fairly regularly... It's abuse.

06-18-2011, 08:25 PM	#10
Geminex SOM3WH3R3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4,606	Seil, the problem is that that's all subjective. There's no objective, unbiased scale of "acceptable" and "not acceptable". It has to be either absolute free speech, or you run the risk of free speech being curtailed by government under the guise of any number of reasons. Sure, people say asshole things. But I'd rather have assholes spouting asshole things, than the government having the ability to restrict a people's right to criticize it. Because eventually, it'd make use of that ability, little by little. Slippery slope. And the change wouldn't even be drastic, but it'd be there. Hell, look at China. There's a lot of similarities between their society and ours, it isn't a super-repressive dictatorship. And yet, free speech is practically nil, and the government does what it wants. That is to be avoided, and the best way to do that is to declare free speech an untouchable ideal. Mind you, there's exceptions. Here in Germanland, holocaust denial and expressing support for the Nazi regime are punishable by, I think, up to 5 years in prison. But the historical justification for that particular instance is so strong, I very much doubt there's any potential for abuse there.