Crimson Echoes

[Jagos]

Yep. Another game was shut down by Square that coulda been a contendah in the modding world. I'm actually checking it out and it looks pretty good. It was supposed to be between Trigger and Cross. I'm checking out the game and liking it so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abUSe...x=0&playnext=1

I'll get back to you all when I finish. But damnit Square, LET these people continue Crono Trigger! You aren't doing ANYTHING with the franchise save squandering chances to let us see a great game. We see Toriyama RIGHT FRIGGIN THERE! Use him and give use a (Crono) Break!

[Dracorion]

Didn't this happen, like, forever ago?

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Didn't this happen, like, forever ago?

Yes, it did, and I am still abso-fucking-lutely delighted that it got shut down. The fewer people convinced that they can become famous video game programmers by writing fanfiction instead of their own damn game, the better.

EDIT: Square is already doing a terrible job trying to tie CT to CC we don't need the fans doing an even worse job.

Originally Posted by Myself on my website

Now, I am pretty much completely opposed to fan games. When Chrono Trigger: Crimson Whatever-the-Fuck got canned because Squeenix sent the makers a cease and desist letter, I was actually happy. Making a game, movie, or book that uses somebody else’s characters to tell your own story is the work of a hack. I don’t care who you are or how long you’ve been working on your Final Fantasy VIII prequel. The moment you decided that you were going to use an established universe and characters to tell whatever fan story you decided would be super duper cool, your game was less for it. Is it possible your game won’t suck? Yes, but it’s about as likely as a game critic getting laid. (For those of you who aren’t game critics, that’s not very damn likely)

[Jagos]

I just found out about it. It happened in May. I just find it odd that they did so much work on it but Square shut it down when it was so near to completion.

The fewer people convinced that they can become famous video game programmers by writing fanfiction instead of their own damn game, the better.

Hmmm... They made a game with an original story... They used music from all over the place (OCRemix), they were fans that were nonprofit with their only mistake being that they hacked the game, used the sprites, and basically used this to continue something that Square has barely touched save for a remake which isn't all that original but put together to link a bad sequel.

Yeah. Big improvement.

-Edit- I'll pass judgement on how CE did with what it had after I watch the entire series. Right now, it seems too much bias against something that still took time to complete.

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah this was a big thing back when it first happened.

I'm kind of in between Noncon's angle and the typical fan reaction, as both sides have equally right points but I honestly don't see the harm in fanwork (or fanwank amirite?), especially since Square Enix seems utterly convinced that making games with either Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts in the name is their only profit.

[Kim]

I'm being kind of a dick about it, and for that I apologize. I'm just extremely irritated at this whole thing, and others like it. Reasons:

1. Fanfiction is almost universally terrible. There are exceptions, but they are rare, and so when fans get all excited for a fan game, it's a tad annoying that they're getting all pumped up over fanfiction.

2. They aren't asking money, but they're expecting to profit from their fanfiction in some form, generally in the "Oh hey the guys who made Crimson Echoes are making something else it's gonna be SO COOL AMIRITE?" way. The whole concept of trying to profit off of something someone else did just irks me.

3. If they actually could make a decent CT fan game, with a plot that isn't balls-ass stupid, and I doubt that it wouldn't be since it's trying to tie CT to CC, I am certain that they could make something far better if they weren't so focused on it being a fan game.

[Mirai Gen]

Nothing wrong with having strong feelings about it, and I totally get your perspective.

The only reason I'm on the fan creator's side slightly is because some good things have come out of the fan community, and usually developers are extremely laid-back about it. Square Enix's "Because We Can" shut down with absolutely no plans of their own was really backhanded both with Crimson Echoes and with Chrono Ressurection.

Yeah they're more than fine doing what they want, but it's been in my experience that C+Ds are usually sent out when they're already planning on doing something of their own, see Halo Wars/Halogen. It's all the more asinine when you tack on SE's dogged insistence that one of the greatest jRPGs of all time with a high-selling, high-scoring (by websites anyway) sequel and a very respectably-selling port to two different systems just doesn't deserve their attention.

EDIT: Basically this is much much lower than the usual developer C+D fare, and it sticks out.

[bluestarultor]

I'm actually with Noncon on this. It's Square's IP, with the emphasis on P, as in "property." It's Square's stuff to do with as it pleases. Doing otherwise would be like a guy going and digging up a person's dead pet under the presumption that the owner wasn't using it. Maybe the owner doesn't WANT to use it, hmm?

People feel so entitled these days it's almost nauseating. They feel they "deserve" a game, or "deserve" their fan game, or "deserve" to be able to make a fan game, when the only thing they "deserve" is a whack upside the head and a "what the fuck."

And of course it's bad press for the company as people wave the "stomping on the little guy" flag over it.




Frankly, as a game designer, myself, I can give the honest personal opinion that people who make fan games are misguided at best and at worst are entitled, opportunistic, lazy, and/or just plain sticky-fingered (in the sense they're thieves, not wankers). There's a real stigma against things like decompiling code in the programming industry because it's simply not your work, and I feel the same way about using someone else's other resources, such as graphics, sound, or setting. It's plagiarism, is what it is, only instead of stealing their words, you're stealing their art.

[Jagos]

Non, I think it's a little harsh to say that fanfiction is outright stupid (even if it is). First, these people understand that what they were making was more of an homage as well as an interpretation that they put time into because they liked the stories of Trigger and Break to such an extent that they wanted to expand on it.

None of this was supposed to be taken as canon. They worked on it on their own time. Also, what they were doing was far more complicated than merely using the established characters in words (which is what I'm assuming by your use of "fanfiction"). They made the quests, they made Crono talk, they even listened to feedback and made improvements on trying to keep some of the humor and lighthearted tone of the game they're emulating. Hell, on the first part, they're wanting their fans to continue to support Chrono Trigger through buying the DS game.

2) Granted, they get a little fanfare. They can be accepted and perhaps, PERHAPS, Square picks up the story and says "how'd you like to help us with Break?" or some other spinoff in the Trigger mythos. It worked well for Valve back in the day, works well now.

3) I have yet to play Cross. I get the sentiment that it's an average game tied by some tenuous links to Trigger but I can't say I like to dismiss something when I feel it should be judged more on merits, than a plot device that for all intents and purposes, this group may have worked out.

Blues, play more TF2.

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Frankly, as a game designer, myself, I can give the honest personal opinion that people who make fan games are misguided at best and at worst are entitled, opportunistic, lazy, and/or just plain sticky-fingered (in the sense they're thieves, not wankers).

I'm going to chalk this up to Bluespeak and just let this go.