Crimson Echoes

[Kim]

Originally Posted by CelesJessa

Fair enough, I just never got why... hate it I guess.

In truth I'm probably a little harsh on them and need to cut back. Part of it, I think, is just being annoyed at all the bitching I heard when Crimson Echoes was actually canceled, when I couldn't really understand why people were so excited for it in the first place. More specifically some of the really really stupid bitching. I'm sorry that a game people were looking forward to got C&D'd, but being able to hack a twenty year old rom does not qualify someone for a gig at Squeenix. I'm fairly sure you never made that argument, but that was one that got on my nerves a bit back then, and stands out in my memory.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

The problem here is the media. They were specifically using a media, in fact the SAME media, to create a story. Nobody cares if it was canon. They were using Square's resources. They were creating a product using items that were not theirs to use in the same format as the originals and had a pretty darn high profile. That would be the difference between writing Twilight fanfiction and writing Twilight fanfiction, getting it published, and then distributing copies of it for free in a paperback. The fact of the matter is that so long as it stays on some blog somewhere, nobody cares, because it's not in the same format. It doesn't matter if you give it away for free or not.

Oh god I totally hate it when people do shit like that, especially when they keep their tribute in the same stupid medium because thats just asking for trouble. And it even angers me more when I see people get insanely popular over it and they don't have anything else under their belt so that just means all they can do is steal stuff and just are dirty thieves who's reinterpretation on said project should be immedately discounted and stupid and they should burn in hell for all eternity! The only thing I hate MORE than that is people who are British! God, I would hate to ever be involved with something like that. ANGER!!!!

[Kim]

Game /= Episodic thing on Youtube

And I still think he could probably make something better if he was doing an original project.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Originally Posted by NonCon

Game /= Episodic thing on Youtube

Then where is the line drawn?
So its okay to be done with tv shows and movies but not with video games?
I thought people have been fighting for awhile to get the two on the same level playing field and looked at and viewed the same exact way.

I was mainly just fighting Blue's point about its wrong doing a tribute or a fan work within the same medium as the original material...

Also, last I checked wasn't Twilight just Anne Rice fanfiction? Cuz I am pretty sure it was...

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Kroze Gamegod

Then where is the line drawn?

Originally Posted by Me

However, I'm generally nicer to those and don't go out of my way to diss on them because that stuff doesn't really have a hype period. You are experiencing it now.

Fan games, apart from being much easier to fuck up, always have to release a lot of hype building stuff, like the Youtube video of the "totally awesome fan game" I mentioned before. When you see art or a story, you are able to judge it then and there, and it is more readily apparent whether it is good or bad. Fan games you can't always tell based on a Youtube vid, and yet people get pulled into the hype of how wonderfully splendiforous it's going to be simply because it's based on something they liked. They have no way of knowing if it'll be any good, like they would with fan art or a fanfic someone posted online, but without any reason other than the source material they jump to the conclusion that it will be. This is why I said I would care less if people were more critical of fan games prior to release or if the people making them had released something original beforehand for me to judge.

I was mainly just fighting Blue's point...

While also referring to my posts in your angry exaggerated rant.

Also, last I checked wasn't Twilight just Anne Rice fanfiction? Cuz I am pretty sure it was...

Proving my point that most fanfiction is terrible.

[Mike McC]

Actually, I've hear everythign from Anne Rice fanfic to Buffy and Angel fanfic for Twilight. I think it's just something snarky internet jerks say to further (and, frankly, unnecesarily) sleight Twilight.

I mean, just because Bella is a major Mary Sue does not a fanfiction make.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Originally Posted by NonCon

Fan games, apart from being much easier to fuck up, always have to release a lot of hype building stuff, like the Youtube video of the "totally awesome fan game" I mentioned before. When you see art or a story, you are able to judge it then and there, and it is more readily apparent whether it is good or bad. Fan games you can't always tell based on a Youtube vid, and yet people get pulled into the hype of how wonderfully splendiforous it's going to be simply because it's based on something they liked. They have no way of knowing if it'll be any good, like they would with fan art or a fanfic someone posted online, but without any reason other than the source material they jump to the conclusion that it will be. This is why I said I would care less if people were more critical of fan games prior to release or if the people making them had released something original beforehand for me to judge.

Yes because downloading a FREE fan made game and then playing it for a couple minutes won't give you a good feel on how good the game actually is and plays.
Just like looking at a picture for a few seconds on deviant art and being able to tell if it sucks ass or not... or reading the first paragraph of a fanfiction written on fanfiction.net.
Why can't people judge for themselves if something is good or not?

You don't have to get pulled into the hype and really these fan made game projects take an awful lot longer to make then just drawing up a picture or writing a few paragraphs of dialog and releasing your first chapter. Some youtube videos aren't there for hype at all, its to show ACTUAL progress is happening on the game itself and to show its not dead to all the people who are waiting for it.

I honestly wonder if we'd be having the same conversation here if the game wasn't a rom hack and instead made by itself... which Squenix has shown with Chrono Resurrection that they would STILL shut it down either way if they did all the programming or did not.

While there are a LOT of bad fan games out there, there are also a shitload of GREAT fangames out there that top even the actual companies attempts at making games...

Sonic Robo Blast 2 is possibly the greatest example of this... Hey! Its a Sonic game that actually plays AMAZINGLY WELL in 3D and plays just like the classics and its made in FREAKIN DOOM LEGACY.

And how about stuff like the Left 4 Dead demake that Valve themselves loved?

Finally, yes... lets be more critical of a game before its released and that we haven't played or experienced yet.
Judge a book by its cover much?

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Kroze Gamegod

Yes because downloading a FREE fan made game and then playing it for a couple minutes won't give you a good feel on how good the game actually is and plays.

Not until it's released it won't. Which was why I said hype period. You know, the period in which they hype up a game. Because it is an extended duration of time, that being what I meant by period, during which the game is not being actually experienced in any tangible way, but instead only enough that people might get excited for it, which is what hype is. As opposed to choosing the words in my posts completely at random.

Some youtube videos aren't there for hype at all, its to show ACTUAL progress is happening on the game itself and to show its not dead to all the people who are waiting for it.

Fans can be just as responsible for hype as the creators. When someone sends me a Youtube link talking about how awesome something looks, they are trying to build hype just the same as the creators are by putting that video up.

I honestly wonder if we'd be having the same conversation here if the game wasn't a rom hack and instead made by itself... which Squenix has shown with Chrono Resurrection that they would STILL shut it down either way if they did all the programming or did not.

I'd probably still assume that the story would be complete and utter ass, but I'd think that the game creators were less lazy with the game itself, so there is that in their favor.

Sonic Robo Blast 2 is possibly the greatest example of this... Hey! Its a Sonic game that actually plays AMAZINGLY WELL in 3D and plays just like the classics and its made in FREAKIN DOOM LEGACY.

I've played this and it's nowhere near as good as you build it up to be. Part of the reason is that Sonic feels like he's out of control in a bad way.

And how about stuff like the Left 4 Dead demake that Valve themselves loved?

You'll note the inclusion of such key words as "majority" and "most" in all my posts. It allows for outliers such as these. Not to say I've played this though. I'm not really interested in it.

Finally, yes... lets be more critical of a game before its released and that we haven't played or experienced yet.
Judge a book by its cover much?

Yes, because when you watch a trailer of a game before it's released and think it looks awesome, regardless of whether it's a fan game or not, you totally aren't judging a book on its cover. Totally.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Originally Posted by NonCon

Fans can be just as responsible for hype as the creators. When someone sends me a Youtube link talking about how awesome something looks, they are trying to build hype just the same as the creators are by putting that video up.

It seems to me you are confusing hype with people having a genuine interest in something that has not been released yet. I don't understand how you can view something like that as bad. Without word being spread, Firefly would have NEVER become as big a hit as it did become.

I've played this and it's nowhere near as good as you build it up to be. Part of the reason is that Sonic feels like he's out of control in a bad way.

I was comparing it to every single 3D Sonic game made my Sega thus far and compared to those, this is leaps and bounds ahead of anything from the official games and what those have given us...

Rest of NonCon's post

So far everything you have said can easily be said and applied to actual video games in development.
The problems you are referring to aren't just confined to fan made games.
Hell, at the rate of how many fan made games go under the radar till they are actually released and stay under the radar is way WAAAAAAYYYY less then the actual video game industry itself.
And we all know that's not gonna be changing any time soon.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Kroze Gamegod

It seems to me you are confusing hype with people having a genuine interest in something that has not been released yet. I don't understand how you can view something like that as bad. Without word being spread, Firefly would have NEVER become as big a hit as it did become.

And we all know how that story ended. My problem is less with the hype itself, and more that the hype is based entirely around "Guys fans are making a fan game based on Chrono Trigger and you know it's gonna be good because they're fans so they'll give the fans what the fans want."

So far everything you have said can easily be said and applied to actual video games in development.
The problems you are referring to aren't just confined to fan made games.
Hell, at the rate of how many fan made games go under the radar till they are actually released and stay under the radar is way WAAAAAAYYYY less then the actual video game industry itself.
And we all know that's not gonna be changing any time soon.

Yes, except, more often then not, hype for other video games is based around features of the game, like Fable's hype is about all you can do, or they've enjoyed other works by the same people, so they have faith that those people will put out a product of similar quality to that which they previously released. Hype for fan games is based almost entirely on the "fan" part and not enough on the game.