MASS EFFECT TWO: GIVE GARRUS A HUG

[Kim]

ARGH Miranda's mad at me and I don't have a high enough score to make her unmad at me. Hopefully I'll be able to rectify this before we go through the Omega 4 relay or I will be PISSED.

[Osterbaum]

You shouldn't have sided with Jack then.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Osterbaum

You shouldn't have sided with Jack then.

But if I sided with Miranda then Jack would be mad at me ARGH

[Azisien]

Originally Posted by NonCon

But if I sided with Miranda then Jack would be mad at me ARGH

So have a better Paragon/Renegade score to diffuse the situation originally, jerk. I think those scenes in general were great though, because they could piss you off. Games, RPGs especially, should piss us off sometimes.

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah if you're Renegade you tell them both to shut up because you're ranking officer on this ship, and Paragon has you tell them that they're both right.

Not sure if I like the way Paragon/Renegade works in this game. It's a truckload better than ME1 but it diffuses the roleplaying when you have to go all the way good/all the way evil.

[Solid Snake]

You can still save your friendship with Miranda, but it requires Max Paragon or Max Renegade.

Really though maybe this was just my playthrough, but I had absolutely no difficulty reaching max Paragon by about midgame. Granted, I had a bit of help from my ME1 transfer, but those points really didn't transfer to much of a boost. And I was going with the Assassin +70% build, as opposed to the Agent +100% build (one of your two specializations for each class offers a considerably greater boost to your Paragon / Renegade scores.) One thing that really helped me was that I recruited everyone before starting a single loyalty mission, and saved Miranda's loyalty mission 'til later because I wasn't spectacularly fond of her.

EDIT: To Mirai's point: Actually, the way Paragon and Renegade worked in ME1 is one of the few things I actually preferred about ME1 over ME2. The novelty in ME1 was that regardless of your decisions, you still played a genuinely good character, but that character could be driven by two very different "law enforcement archetype" philosophies. Either you upheld moral virtues at the risk of naivety, or you interpreted the law in such a way to enable tactical efficiency at the cost of those ideals.

Really what upset me in ME1 (and even moreso in ME2) was that the xenophobia and xenophilia was attached to Paragon / Renegade decisions, when it should have been two different scales on two different axises. You should have been able to be a renegade in regards to tactical situations who still, on a broader strategic level, viewed aliens on friendly terms and saw them as potential allies. And you should have been able to play as an idealistic paragon in regards to humans who just happened to view aliens as inferior. The tactical decisions of "How exactly do I diffuse this hostile situation" really don't have a baring on the socio-political ramifications of "do I like Cerberus or do I prefer the Council." If I could change anything in preparation for ME3, I'd change that. (Though it's probably a bit too late for such an alteration to work.)

But ME2 really made paragon / renegade decisions into good vs. evil decisions more often than not, and that went quite contrary to the point. The whole scarring plot development in ME2 was stupid because it evoked KOTOR and Mass Effect shouldn't try to be anything like KOTOR or a standard morality play. An "evil" Shepard simply shouldn't exist and the possible ramifications that they're leading up to for ME3, in which a renegade Shepard might turn all-out evil, demeans the original intent.

On the flip side, at least the interrupts system kicked ass.

[Azisien]

I like how Harbinger is basically having a conservation with himself...herself...itself.


I do agree with Mirai, it sucks that they didn't give a spectrum of Paragon/Renegade options based on different scores. The "half-half" Shepard kind of gets screwed.

Also see where you're coming from, Snake, but on the other hand, I think maybe Shepard was allowed to be more true good/evil in ME2 because you're not a Council police officer anymore. Hell, your new "boss" doesn't really care how you approach situations.

Agree on the xenophobia/xenophilia thing, though.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Azisien

Also see where you're coming from, Snake, but on the other hand, I think maybe Shepard was allowed to be more true good/evil in ME2 because you're not a Council police officer anymore. Hell, your new "boss" doesn't really care how you approach situations.

I consider it more or less against Shepard's established ME1 character development to even consider the possibility of becoming evil. I'll concede that the new impression he's gotten from Cerberus (via Miranda, Jacob, Kelly, and even the at-times charming Illusive Man) provides justification for a xenophobic Shepard to consider the organization a likable ally. Even then, though, I'll reiterate that it's disappointing that merely being xenophobic or 'pro-human' in a playthrough apparently leads Shepard to make ruthless tactical decisions in combat and leads him to become a scarred aggressive war-hungry borderline-evil dude. Even Ashley Williams in ME1 was complex enough to convey that not every xenophobe was inherently sinister about it.

EDIT: Hell, now that I think about it, even The Illusive Man, shady agenda and all, is presented in such a way that his pro-human agenda doesn't carry with it any necessary insinuations of aggressive hostility. Sure, he could be a nefarious man with sinister intentions of killing lots of aliens to save just one human life. Or he could simply be looking out for the best interests of his species in a galaxy that seems complacent and uncaring in the wake of a threat to humans, he could bare no specific ill will towards aliens but merely feel justifiably paranoid or cynical enough to suspect humanity has to look out for itself, and he could have been telling the truth regarding him being completely unaware as to splinter cells of Cerberus engaging in unethical experiments in ME1. The latter explanation may be unlikely, but its mere possibility adds depth. By contrast, the game seems to actively discourage you from developing a 'paragon xenophobe' interpretation of Shepard that fits Ashley and (possibly even) the Illusive Man's examples.

Some of the new Renegade interrupts were downright malicious in ways ME1 never dared approach. It made for some very clever cutscenes, but I think it's an example of trying to make the game more visceral and exciting at the expense of an established characterization. Even my most Renegade Shepard playthrough in ME1 just isn't the kind of guy who's going to electrify a helpless mechanic to death (one who presumes you're an ally and speaks on friendly terms with you, no less) or throw a helpless mercenary who's clearly surrendered to his doom. The extent of renegade Shepard's badass moves in ME1 generally involved punching people. The deaths of civilians were only justified by abhorrent situations that threatened the outcome of the mission (possession by the Thorian.) Shepard in ME2 is more like "if you even present an incredibly minor nuisance I will kill you in cold blood and with no provocation", which is just silly.

Really the bad side effect of Renegade Shepard in ME2 is that renegade playthroughs are much less appealing to me from a grander storytelling perspective than they appeared in ME1. In ME1 renegade seemed an equally viable option as paragon. In ME2, renegade makes for some amazing cutscenes and as an independent experience it's fantastic, but as the middle chapter of a long and rich story set in the Mass Effect universe there's simply no massive incentive to be renegade. After all, as a renegade you'd have to be an asshole to your squadmates, kill characters in cold blood who could actually leave you e-mails / sidequests / support in ME3, and antagonize every faction that could possibly support you against the Reapers. Insofar as being a renegade in ME1 didn't require you to burn so many bridges, a renegade playthrough was tenable. In ME2, by contrast, you're left with the distinct impression that playing as a renegade will leave you in a complete strategic disadvantage in ME3, not to mention a much less colorful playthrough without as rich a cast of characters.

I guess to summarize: ME2 leaves you the impression that the paragon playthrough is the real bona fide ME experience and the renegade playthrough is more a dark fantasy that couldn't dare be canon, which is very different than ME1, where the renegade playthrough felt like a realistic approach. As such, I think it's increasingly likely that I'll take only one pure-evil badass renegade playthrough into ME3 (just to experience what it's like,) whereas all my other playthroughs will be variations of paragons (with only different genders, specializations, and love interests to differentiate them.)

[Krylo]

I think ME1 might be getting seen with Rose Colored glasses here.

ME1 Renegade options--Punch a reporter. Execute a helpless (though guilty) man. Side with Terra Firma party. Kill the last rachni--while it is basically promising it will be good and begging for forgiveness/life, and after it has been explained that the creatures you'd been killing were retard evil rachni created because the scientists fucked up their ability to develop. Murder something like 20 innocent colonists who are being mind controlled and really no threat to you when you have gas grenades perfectly capable of knocking them out without hurting them.

Most 'evil' ME2 Renegade Options I can Recall--Punch a reporter. Again. Murder two mercs who are in the middle of talking about how they will murder you. Save the reaper technology to use against the reapers. Kill the sociopathic lawful stupid knight errant who would probably try to kill you later, anyway--trading her for the sociopathic succubus who is no threat to you or your crew because 1) she only kills with sex and you can resist having sex with her, 2) she's not stupid and everyone would know who did it while she was trapped on the normandy, and 3) you can just murder after the mission and not worry about anymore if necessary, much more easily than you could her mom.

Really, if ANYTHING ME1 choices were much more good/evil than ME2 choices.

Edit: HELPLESS MECHANIC SNAKE!? Really. He's a blue suns merc, and he's fixing a gun ship that is going to be used to attempt to murder you in like a half hour. You know this going in. Even my paragon characters take that interrupt, because it is SMART.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Krylo

I think ME1 might be getting seen with Rose Colored glasses here.

Nah, I believe that ME2 is the far better game.
So trust me, I'm not looking at ME1 with anything resembling 'rose-colored glasses.'

I just felt the renegade ME1 decisions were more justifiable. Take the rachni, for example. Sure, it sounds as if the rachni queen is begging for forgiveness and a chance to repopulate her people, but the odds are decent she isn't telling the truth, and she's just in a position where she's forced to tell Shepard what she thinks he wants to hear. Given that the rachni are crazy-lookin' aliens and given their reputation in Citadel space, not to mention the fact that Shepard's a human and humans have had less than thirty years' experience dealing with all this, it's entirely feasible an otherwise good-intentioned but deeply skeptical Shepard would prefer wiping the rachni out over risking another Rachni War. (Just think, he and he alone would be to blame for that decision.)

Mind you, I'm savin' the rachni even in my Renegade ME1 playthrough, but I can at least understand the logic there.
By contrast killing the mechanic who's just doing his job and who has no reason to suspect you're the enemy? It's smart, but it's cold-blooded in a way that doesn't compare to the rachni incident.

Just my opinion, though.

EDIT: That being said I will concede that the Morinith / Samara decision had a surprising amount of depth to it. In my first (pure paragon) playthrough based on everything Samara told me I had difficulty justifying whether killing Morinith was truly the paragon action. I saved Samara -- in large part because the game told me it was the paragon choice and because I was willing to give Samara the benefit of the doubt -- but then Samara's later comments about Morinith's situation (when you speak to her in the Normandy after the mission is complete) actually deepened my doubts.