"Global Warming" or "Interesting Debate On Munk"

[Bob The Mercenary]

It's just that, how are all of you so 100% absolutely positively sure that we are definitely causing this impending doom? I've heard arguments, plenty of them, for the opposing side. I've also heard plenty in the affirmative. And frankly, I've never been so confused.

You just seem so sure in your position that you're attacking anyone else as uninformed or an idiot.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Ibian

Historically speaking, we have been going through cycles of roughly 90000 years of cold and 10000 years of warmth in 1000000 year cycles. These are not exact numbers, they can and do vary by hundreds or thousands of years, and we don't know what causes them to start or end. So far as i know there is no way to know if we should be in one had we not done anything, but the possibility that we could be exists (again, provided the global warming people are correct).

Basically, if we are having an impact then reversing that impact could be quite risky and potentially devastating. And if we don't, trying to reverse it is money out the window.

For reference, my dad is an archaeologist and knowing this sort of thing is part of his job. I have been leaning about it my entire life.

milankovitch cycles milankovitch cycles. It's well known, as for your father being a archaeologist it really means very little. One Archaeology doesn't imply any knowledge of how gases interact with atmosphere and two it's an argument from authority which is a great example of defective induction.

[Green Spanner]

Originally Posted by Ibian

For reference, my dad is an archaeologist and knowing this sort of thing is part of his job. I have been leaning about it my entire life.

So he has two relevant degrees, yes?

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

It's just that, how are all of you so 100% absolutely positively sure that we are definitely causing this impending doom?

His entire argument boils down to "But that would cause impending doom too!"

You just seem so sure in your position that you're attacking anyone else as uninformed or an idiot.

Look as it's been said before I am not going to insult anyone who's willing to at least debate to me that global warming may or may not exist. They'd be wrong but I'm 100% willing to talk this out with them.

The last thing I'm going to do is debate to someone who sticks fingers in their ears and ignores every bit of data I throw at their head. If I say "This chart says there isn't an ice age and we're causing a huge problem," he says, "Well that doesn't prove anything."

I'm not ignoring him because he's against my position - I'm arguing against him because there's no blood coming out of that stone.

Originally Posted by Ibian

For reference, my dad is an archaeologist and knowing this sort of thing is part of his job. I have been leaning about it my entire life.

Originally Posted by Green Spanner

So he has two relevant degrees, yes?

I told you. He's either Godhand or Godhand Jr.

And with that in mind...

[Ibian]

Originally Posted by Sifright

milankovitch cycles milankovitch cycles. It's well known, as for your father being a archaeologist it really means very little. One Archaeology doesn't imply any knowledge of how gases interact with atmosphere and two it's an argument from authority which is a great example of defective induction.

And the IPCC is what? Come on now.

[Ryanderman]

Originally Posted by Mirai Gen

Compelling Pcitures

I wasn't trying to support his argument. I had just been looking at his claim of freezing the earth, and tried to think of any way that could make sense. My previous post was the only one I could come up with.

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

I wasn't trying to support his argument. I had just been looking at his claim of freezing the earth, and tried to think of any way that could make sense. My previous post was the only one I could come up with.

Yeah I wasn't directing it at you, at least not cruelly. The post was purely to provide the evidence you were asking for, and I was trying to keep it civilly relaxed around you.

No worries - we're cool.

[Ibian]

Incidentally, there is good evidence that Greenland was warmer a thousand years ago than it is now. It involves archaeology. And vikings.

Cue the pointing and laughing.

[Thadius]

Ahah.

Hahah.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Okay give me a moment here to catch my breath. See, whenever I hear arguments about 'global warming,' I laugh. Whenever I hear things about 'climate change,' I chuckle. Mostly because everyone tacks on 'man-made' at the end.

Which I think is total and utter complete bullshit.

Ah! Please put down the keyboard, I will explain myself before you angrily quote me and troll me.

See, mankind has always placed itself at the center of everything. When we were beginning to learn about the stars and how the planets move? We were the CENTER of the universe. When we learned of other continents? On our maps, the colonized world/landmass that was issuing the maps was always the CENTER. And once we began learning of the slow change in temperature? Clearly mankind was the CENTER of the problem. Mankind's always had a bit of a swelled head, you see.

I would like you to, for a moment, consider the mayfly. It lives in its adult form for only a day. If you were to observe one land on a tree, and somehow possessed the means to communicate with it, and asked it, 'Is the tree alive?', it would reply, 'No, I've been here all my life and it hasn't done anything!'

How long have we been on this lump of rock and dirt?

How long have we been watching the temperature?

NOT NEARLY LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE THESE CONCLUSIONS THAT WE ARE THE CAUSE.

And of course you have to consider that anybody gathering data is suspect, either because he's being paid for his data, or is skewing it so that he WILL be paid for his data as it aligns to someone's needs.

Climate change, I will agree, is a natural thing the earth does. REGARDLESS OF IF WE'RE HERE OR NOT. I will also agree that mankind has not been helpful to the environment on a whole. It's not something we do well, apparently.

But to connect the two? Requires more than a leap of faith. It requires a leap out of a goddamn airplane without a parachute at 30,000 feet.

Normally I'd sit still and just watch the fireworks between two opposing parties. I love it when mankind can't make up its mind, really I do. It's like watching a dissociative personality disorder person fight himself!

But this issue is one of my pet peeves. Why?

Because it's been going on too goddamn long and has too much controversy around it.

I'm going to make a disk. A disk that contains all the global warming arguments that ever were. I will save it and put it in a time capsule and tell mankind to open it in 500 years.

If global warming is still the issue, then they'll know that it's been around a real goddamn long time.

However. If like I suspect global cooling is the issue, and the words 'climate change' are still floating around?

My ghost will laugh at everyone. And the words 'man-made' will be retired from 'climate change.'

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Ibian

Incidentally, there is good evidence that Greenland was warmer a thousand years ago than it is now. It involves archaeology. And vikings.

Cue the pointing and laughing.

Funny to hear this from a kid who has no idea on the scientific review process and thinks that by failing to continue to pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, we'll cause an ice age.

Really, if your dad IS an archaeologist in a relevant area, it's pretty apparent you're not getting info from him. Because these are basics.



Thad: I think it's pretty strong evidence over the course of 1300 years that we're seeing warming caused after we started getting really into burning shit. To put it this way, records dating back to 700 C.E. as was mentioned earlier in the thread gives us plenty of info. Like the inclusion of the Industrial Revolution. Just saying, we humans have been around for quite a while, but we've only just very recently gotten into fossil fuels and our data predates that.