The Very Big Final Fantasy XIII Thread

[Jagos]

Cloud ruined Aeris' death

By growing up and moving on before the Big Bad Boss fight?

[32bit-RedMage]

Why do people hate FFII so much ? The game is pretty cool !
I admit that the "level up" system is a huge pain in the ass..... but ....
It has a good story, it has a real plotline and also lots of interaction with villains and other characters. It's true that the story is a bit cliche at times... but still, it's pretty good for NES standards.
The music and the graphics are better than FFI's.

Originally Posted by krogothwolf

What, no love for mystic quest?

Long live the mystic quest !

[krogothwolf]

I'd have to say it's mainly because of the level system people rag on it. That's my only grip with it. God I hated that system. I had huge attack at one point but meager HP because nothing hit me, then got to a boss and one hit killed me because of that. So lame.

If they complain about cliche story I woulld like someone to tell me what FF isn't a cliche'd story at times.

[32bit-RedMage]

Originally Posted by krogothwolf

I'd have to say it's mainly because of the level system people rag on it. That's my only grip with it. God I hated that system. I had huge attack at one point but meager HP because nothing hit me, then got to a boss and one hit killed me because of that. So lame.

True.

It was really annoying.... getting good stats was a huge pain in the ass!
I remember staying in places where monsters were weak and having my party members attack and heal each other in every battle. (It's the only way to get good HP and defense)
I also remember that near the end of the game you learn the strongest spell.
It was ultima or holy, or something like that. It was supposed to be the strongest spell in the game, but since you learn the level 1 version of it and you have to level up all your spells in order to actually do some damage... it was the crappiest thing ever.
If I remember correctly I used it against the final boss ... and could only deal 15 points of damage.

Originally Posted by krogothwolf

If they complain about cliche story I woulld like someone to tell me what FF isn't a cliche'd story at times

Also true.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Jagos

By growing up and moving on before the Big Bad Boss fight?

No, by completely delving into narm territory. His speech was just so overdone that it ruined the impact of the moment for me. His mortal enemy just killed the woman who mystified and beguiled him, so he held her as she died in his arms, laid her gently to rest, and immediately unleashed his emotion-laden revenge on her kil-AHAHAHA, no, he sat there holding her for ten minutes going on about how she was dead while Sephiroth just stood there calling him an idiot before waltzing out sans one instant-boss tentacle.

On the other hand, when Buenhagen died, Red showed an actual resistance to the idea, an unwillingness to accept the loss of the only person he had left, acting as if by refusing to accept or allow it, it could be avoided, and lamenting in simple terms when he realized he was powerless, ending the scene with a single, baleful howl, which said so much more than any of what Cloud came out with.

Cloud handled Aeris' death with immediate acceptance and dialogue so bad that THE MAIN VILLAIN called it out as bullshit, where Red's reaction to Bugenhagen's death was so much more human and heart-wrenching.

Originally Posted by 32bit-RedMage

Why do people hate FFII so much ? The game is pretty cool !
I admit that the "level up" system is a huge pain in the ass..... but ....
It has a good story, it has a real plotline and also lots of interaction with villains and other characters. It's true that the story is a bit cliche at times... but still, it's pretty good for NES standards.
The music and the graphics are better than FFI's.

While it was technically superior in nearly every way, it tried to do too much all at once and misstepped the execution on a lot of it. Natural growth could have been good if it had been handled a bit better. To level spells up, you had to use them hundreds of times, which was prohibitive given your low MP. It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if your stat growth hadn't been so pathetic, so the game essentially expects you to ride off the seat of your pants to get anywhere. Then there was the weapon proficiency system, not a bad idea, if it hadn't prevented you from actually specializing in a weapon. But no, to get anywhere with one weapon after the third level, you had to work on other weapons, meaning your party would usually be operating with sub-optimal equipment. Then there was the illusion of an open map, only instead of walls, they blocked areas off with battles far beyond your party's abilities, so the only way you knew not to go somewhere was by dying and reloading. Not to mention the fact that there were also places you HAD to go where the enemies would crush you like bugs. On top of that, the keyword system turned the game into a protracted chore of rubbing every word you came across on every NPC one by one like a bad adventure game in hopes they'd reward you with more than just a different bit of text. These are all things that could have worked if they'd been handled better, or would have been forgivable if done alone, but the game was a hodgepodge of poor execution to the point that most people didn't get far enough for the story to actually unfold.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

No, by completely delving into narm territory. His speech was just so overdone that it ruined the impact of the moment for me. His mortal enemy just killed the woman who mystified and beguiled him, so he held her as she died in his arms, laid her gently to rest, and immediately unleashed his emotion-laden revenge on her kil-AHAHAHA, no, he sat there holding her for ten minutes going on about how she was dead while Sephiroth just stood there calling him an idiot before waltzing out sans one instant-boss tentacle.

It's good to know that the adequate approach to troubling times is cathartic violence.
And oh no, I'm not doing what the villain thinks I should do! I must be doing things wrong!

[krogothwolf]

I didn't really find his speech that out of place, considering Sephiroth was giving his speech as well, it seemed to fit then going all rageahol on Sephiroth because Aerith died. Also, Sephiroth called bullshit on his feelings, not his speech. It really wasn't immediate acceptence, it was more along the lines of things he'll be missing of her.

[Regulus Tera]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Or II, either. He is now obligated to play it as punishment for rating X below VII, V, and IX.

I mentioned only the ones I finished to completion. Objectively speaking XI would be in the third or fourth place, but since I never finished that crap it's not there.

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Don't get me wrong, I loved IX, and if VII had been about Red XIII, it would have quite possibly been the best game ever (Cloud ruined Aeris' death, but I cried for both major developments in Red's story). But V? Really? Maybe I just didn't stick around long enough, but the characters were paper-thin and just as flat as far as I dragged myself through, leaving me with the feeling they were utterly interchangeable. I understand they got development later on just from hanging around FF Wiki, but Christ, I got bored with it and went back to playing Chrono Cross.

V has the decency to not get all sappy and melodramatic. It may be the most contrived piece of shit ever, but it is a brief and fun piece of shit.

More games should be like V.

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by Regulus Tera

V has the decency to not get all sappy and melodramatic. It may be the most contrived piece of shit ever, but it is a brief and fun piece of shit.

I find it ironic that you say this having rated IV above V.

Dark Knight Cecil: "I'm a dark knight but I don't right killing all these people but I have to be loyal to the king so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Paladin Cecil: "My girlfriend has been kidnapped she is my life my hope how will I ever live without her I am saaaaad. :'("

Later on, Paladin Cecil: "It turns out I'm from the moon I'm fighting my older brother I don't fit in also I don't want to kill my brother but I have no choice so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Kain: "My best friend is in love with the woman I want to be with also I got mind controlled and had to fight him for a while so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

Edward: "My girlfriend is dead also I am a spoony bard so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

etc etc etc

[Regulus Tera]

Originally Posted by Kerensky287

I find it ironic that you say this having rated IV above V.

Dark Knight Cecil: "I'm a dark knight but I don't right killing all these people but I have to be loyal to the king so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Paladin Cecil: "My girlfriend has been kidnapped she is my life my hope how will I ever live without her I am saaaaad. :'("

Later on, Paladin Cecil: "It turns out I'm from the moon I'm fighting my older brother I don't fit in also I don't want to kill my brother but I have no choice so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Kain: "My best friend is in love with the woman I want to be with also I got mind controlled and had to fight him for a while so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

Edward: "My girlfriend is dead also I am a spoony bard so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

etc etc etc

I know it's ironic, but even then I have to admit there's almost nothing to hang on to FFV's plot. It is non-existent, although non-intrusive. And for all the melodrama FFIV contains, it never is teeth-grinding or overplayed, unlike later titles in the series.