Late to the party: Persona 4 - Page 3

Corel · 03-28-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonCon

EVERY DAY'S GREAT AT YOUR JU-

It's impossible to read that without her singing it in your head. It's like the Professor Farnsworth of Persona.

Solid Snake · 03-28-2010, 11:50 PM

RE: Yosuke, I always wondered if there was a missing Japanese cultural element insofar as his antics and prejudices might somehow be more tolerable (or less intolerable?) over there.

Personally, I was occasionally offended with him, but never outright disgusted with him. A lot of it had to do with his age. When I was in High School, I said and did pretty damn stupid things, too. All of the characters have hidden prejudices, flaws and foibles, and Yosuke's problem to me always seemed to be that he simply had loose lips. In regards to Kanji and homosexuality, I always perceived Yosuke as simply being brave or foolish enough to vocally advocate the same level of discomfort several others were feeling on the subject. It wasn't like Yukiko or Chie were terribly inviting of Kanji's sexuality, they just were polite enough to keep their mouths shut. Naoto has a pretty poorly concealed (and somewhat unfounded) superiority complex that causes her to eschew relationships with most her peers. And Naoto actually treats Kanji pretty terribly too, a fact that seems to be ignored in large part because Naoto seems distant from everyone. But if the MC develops a friendship with Naoto to the extent she breaks out of her shell, it seems especially cruel for her to continue treating Kanji as she does.

Actually, Kanji kind of gets the short straw all around, (which makes him an even more impressive character in my book, because he becomes mature enough to shrug much of it off by the endgame.)

But yeah, actually if you analyze the other Persona 4 high schoolers, none of them with the exception of the MC come out smelling like roses. (And the MC only smells like roses if you invest ideal emotional traits into the otherwise lifeless avatar with your decisions.) Despite all of Yosuke's immature rancor, it was still utterly inappropriate at best and malicious at worst for Chie to buy Teddie's clothes on Yosuke's dime without asking for permission...his anger in that scene seemed justified. Rise's treatment of the MC on a pedestal of awe and admiration slightly obscures the fact that she's pretty antisocial around most others. Teddie had moments of perversion that, particularly given his non-human status, seemed often creepier than most anything Yosuke said or did. Yukiko had a few moments where she just snapped and sounded more aggressive and downright unlikable than anyone else in the game; at least Yosuke's general demeanor allowed you to take half his comments as jokes-gone-wrong, but by contrast Yukiko at times just sounded choked with unhealthy passive-aggressive rage. I'd almost rather witness Yosuke's brutal honesty than Yukiko's volcanic approach...

Anyway, point being, everyone was just about equally imperfect. Yosuke tends to get more crap because his personality flaw is one that actually exposes his immature thoughts to the public on a frequent basis, whereas the immature thoughts of others remain slightly better concealed (though they're often hinted at.) There's also a bit of a gender gap: because Atlus was writing for a male MC and wanted to keep things ambiguous with the women (so you could pursue any of them as love interests) the male characters as a whole are slightly better developed (you at least have a pretty decent idea as to who they find attractive, and that colors their motivations).

By contrast, the girls remain mysterious from the MC's perspective. Persona 4 also largely avoided the kinds of catfights for the MC's attention (and angry breakups) that should have been more prominent among a group of women the MC could seduce. The net effect is that the women actually seem a bit too perfect for my tastes. I'd rather they appear more 'flawed' like Yosuke, if that meant they actually felt lapses in self-confidence regarding their relationship status with the MC or they occasionally snapped when it became obvious the MC was playin' the field.

Drownball-Champ · 03-29-2010, 12:15 AM

Yeah I've been told I'm heartless before.

The music was great, but I agree they should've gone with a new battle theme for each different dungeon. The battle theme doesn't fit the situations and areas the same way the theme on P3 did, but that was partly because it was always the same area or event happening.

PCD · 03-29-2010, 12:51 AM

I agree on the terms of the battle music. On top of it always being the same, it just didn't feel like a good battle theme to me; it wasn't exactly pumped up, more just a sort of Pop-y tune that didn't totally fit the situation imho.

My team is currently composed of Yosuke-Yukiko-Kanji, more out of what my friend told me I should do than any actual experimentation myself >> At this point, Chie's inevitably behind by a few levels, which is the main doubt I have for bringing her back in.

The characters all definitely have their flaws in general. They're teenagers, it makes sense for them to be a bit immature, but yes, I agree with Solid; Yukiko seemed eerily passive-aggressive to me in a lot of ways. Chie's sort of immature and selfish, Yosuke doesn't know how to think before he speaks, Rise got annoying fast, and Teddie's just sort of creepy. Kanji is by far the best in that he's already shown growth at this stage of the game.

Dojima, even if he's pretty cool when you start hanging out with him, is on my list of "worst dads ever." He just has no idea how to take care of Nanako, and it's painful to watch how sad it makes her.

Kim · 03-29-2010, 12:53 AM

"Can I have coffee, too?"
"Sure! Cream and sugar, right?"
"Yeah!"

DOJIMA IS THE WORST DAD

Solid Snake · 03-29-2010, 01:53 AM

Hiimdaisy's hysterical jokes aside, I thought Dojima was a kickass dad, albeit one dealing with serious issues related to the premature death of his wife. Dojima just doesn't have a personality type conducive to raising children. But he tries, often despite his natural ineptitude (and despite the fact that an unknown serial killer is making his job miserable.) And I had a deep appreciation for his efforts.

He felt like one of the most real, flesh-and-blood characters to me. Hiimdaisy's having fun playing up Dojima's bouts with ineptitude, but honestly, I think her Dojima is the least effectual of her portrayals, in large part because the other characters are fairly honest portrayals that harp on the character's actual flaws, whereas Dojima's is more like a (hysterical, yes, but still) total negative distortion.
(By contrast, her portrayal of Yosuke is amazing in large part because it's simultaneously exaggerated and yet completely faithful to the character's actual in-game personality.)

Corel · 03-29-2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

He felt like one of the most real, flesh-and-blood characters to me. Hiimdaisy's having fun playing up Dojima's bouts with ineptitude, but honestly, I think her Dojima is the least effectual of her portrayals, in large part because the other characters are fairly honest portrayals that harp on the character's actual flaws, whereas Dojima's is more like a (hysterical, yes, but still) total negative distortion.

I would take a guess she was influenced how Jeff and Vinnie from the Endurance Run portrayed Dojima in their voice overs and comments, as I believe she also watched it.

I also was a big fan of Adachi.

01d55 · 03-29-2010, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

RE: Yosuke, I always wondered if there was a missing Japanese cultural element insofar as his antics and prejudices might somehow be more tolerable (or less intolerable?) over there.

Best as I can tell the missing element is that Japanese culture shares his prejudices. The feel I get off scenes with Yosuke is that the player is supposed to be a dude who's basically like Yosuke, with maybe a little more tact. (This feel is especially strong when you're first entering void quest.) If it wasn't for that sense I probably wouldn't be so mad.

EVILNess · 03-29-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCD

At this point, Chie's inevitably behind by a few levels, which is the main doubt I have for bringing her back in.

Just take her into whatever dungeon is current with you and she will catch up very fast.

Vauron · 03-29-2010, 09:36 AM

More to the point, the amount of exp given is increased for the character if they are at a lower level than the enemy. If Chie is behind, she should quickly catch up so long as she is conscious enough to get exp at the end of the fight.

03-28-2010, 11:50 PM	#22
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	RE: Yosuke, I always wondered if there was a missing Japanese cultural element insofar as his antics and prejudices might somehow be more tolerable (or less intolerable?) over there. Personally, I was occasionally offended with him, but never outright disgusted with him. A lot of it had to do with his age. When I was in High School, I said and did pretty damn stupid things, too. All of the characters have hidden prejudices, flaws and foibles, and Yosuke's problem to me always seemed to be that he simply had loose lips. In regards to Kanji and homosexuality, I always perceived Yosuke as simply being brave or foolish enough to vocally advocate the same level of discomfort several others were feeling on the subject. It wasn't like Yukiko or Chie were terribly inviting of Kanji's sexuality, they just were polite enough to keep their mouths shut. Naoto has a pretty poorly concealed (and somewhat unfounded) superiority complex that causes her to eschew relationships with most her peers. And Naoto actually treats Kanji pretty terribly too, a fact that seems to be ignored in large part because Naoto seems distant from everyone. But if the MC develops a friendship with Naoto to the extent she breaks out of her shell, it seems especially cruel for her to continue treating Kanji as she does. Actually, Kanji kind of gets the short straw all around, (which makes him an even more impressive character in my book, because he becomes mature enough to shrug much of it off by the endgame.) But yeah, actually if you analyze the other Persona 4 high schoolers, none of them with the exception of the MC come out smelling like roses. (And the MC only smells like roses if you invest ideal emotional traits into the otherwise lifeless avatar with your decisions.) Despite all of Yosuke's immature rancor, it was still utterly inappropriate at best and malicious at worst for Chie to buy Teddie's clothes on Yosuke's dime without asking for permission...his anger in that scene seemed justified. Rise's treatment of the MC on a pedestal of awe and admiration slightly obscures the fact that she's pretty antisocial around most others. Teddie had moments of perversion that, particularly given his non-human status, seemed often creepier than most anything Yosuke said or did. Yukiko had a few moments where she just snapped and sounded more aggressive and downright unlikable than anyone else in the game; at least Yosuke's general demeanor allowed you to take half his comments as jokes-gone-wrong, but by contrast Yukiko at times just sounded choked with unhealthy passive-aggressive rage. I'd almost rather witness Yosuke's brutal honesty than Yukiko's volcanic approach... Anyway, point being, everyone was just about equally imperfect. Yosuke tends to get more crap because his personality flaw is one that actually exposes his immature thoughts to the public on a frequent basis, whereas the immature thoughts of others remain slightly better concealed (though they're often hinted at.) There's also a bit of a gender gap: because Atlus was writing for a male MC and wanted to keep things ambiguous with the women (so you could pursue any of them as love interests) the male characters as a whole are slightly better developed (you at least have a pretty decent idea as to who they find attractive, and that colors their motivations). By contrast, the girls remain mysterious from the MC's perspective. Persona 4 also largely avoided the kinds of catfights for the MC's attention (and angry breakups) that should have been more prominent among a group of women the MC could seduce. The net effect is that the women actually seem a bit too perfect for my tastes. I'd rather they appear more 'flawed' like Yosuke, if that meant they actually felt lapses in self-confidence regarding their relationship status with the MC or they occasionally snapped when it became obvious the MC was playin' the field. __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text. Last edited by Solid Snake; 03-28-2010 at 11:53 PM.

03-29-2010, 01:53 AM	#26
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	Hiimdaisy's hysterical jokes aside, I thought Dojima was a kickass dad, albeit one dealing with serious issues related to the premature death of his wife. Dojima just doesn't have a personality type conducive to raising children. But he tries, often despite his natural ineptitude (and despite the fact that an unknown serial killer is making his job miserable.) And I had a deep appreciation for his efforts. He felt like one of the most real, flesh-and-blood characters to me. Hiimdaisy's having fun playing up Dojima's bouts with ineptitude, but honestly, I think her Dojima is the least effectual of her portrayals, in large part because the other characters are fairly honest portrayals that harp on the character's actual flaws, whereas Dojima's is more like a (hysterical, yes, but still) total negative distortion. (By contrast, her portrayal of Yosuke is amazing in large part because it's simultaneously exaggerated and yet completely faithful to the character's actual in-game personality.) __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text.

03-29-2010, 09:36 AM	#30
Vauron Herald Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148	More to the point, the amount of exp given is increased for the character if they are at a lower level than the enemy. If Chie is behind, she should quickly catch up so long as she is conscious enough to get exp at the end of the fight. __________________ Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. Calvin Coolidge

03-29-2010, 12:15 AM	#23
Drownball-Champ Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 220	Yeah I've been told I'm heartless before. The music was great, but I agree they should've gone with a new battle theme for each different dungeon. The battle theme doesn't fit the situations and areas the same way the theme on P3 did, but that was partly because it was always the same area or event happening.

03-29-2010, 12:53 AM	#25
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	"Can I have coffee, too?" "Sure! Cream and sugar, right?" "Yeah!" DOJIMA IS THE WORST DAD