Alan Wake

[Magus]

Originally Posted by Azisien

Oh yes, the story is basically competing directly in importance with the gameplay. And that's saying a lot considering its a video game.

Why is it only Remedy and a few other developers seem to be doing this? Other than Max Payne and now Alan Wake, I think the only other examples where the story seems really intertwined with the gameplay is probably MGS (which is kind of a terrible story but it is definitely part of the gameplay), and the Nathan Drake games, which I haven't played but I've heard that the game basically plays out with a lot of set pieces reminiscent of an action movie. The key seems to be set pieces but so well molded into the gameplay you don't notice they're set pieces, carefully planning out everything in advance of what the enemies and the player may and will do, and so on.

[Doc ock rokc]

Originally Posted by Magus

Why is it only Remedy and a few other developers seem to be doing this? Other than Max Payne and now Alan Wake, I think the only other examples where the story seems really intertwined with the gameplay is probably MGS (which is kind of a terrible story but it is definitely part of the gameplay), and the Nathan Drake games, which I haven't played but I've heard that the game basically plays out with a lot of set pieces reminiscent of an action movie. The key seems to be set pieces but so well molded into the gameplay you don't notice they're set pieces, carefully planning out everything in advance of what the enemies and the player may and will do, and so on.

Because centering the game Directly on a story means it has Little Replay value. While games like the Max, MGS, and Uncharted have great storys they are also don't change that much (linear) Meanwhile a game that is semi-disconnected to the story is open to play again and again and again to find what you missed.
Rem actually learned from this and In the hard mode of the game there is more in level twists and more pages of the Manuscript (supposedly)

[Kim]

Nocturne was a game that was very story centric in a way, without detracting from the gameplay. Although the story doesn't change, there are six paths you can take, each with its own ending, and there's a New Game+ mode so I'd say it has a great story and replay value.

[Magus]

Originally Posted by Doc ock rokc

Because centering the game Directly on a story means it has Little Replay value. While games like the Max, MGS, and Uncharted have great storys they are also don't change that much (linear) Meanwhile a game that is semi-disconnected to the story is open to play again and again and again to find what you missed.
Rem actually learned from this and In the hard mode of the game there is more in level twists and more pages of the Manuscript (supposedly)

Yeah, but I found like good action movies I ended up replaying MP 1 and 2 for those particular scenes and set pieces I enjoyed so much, and the dialogue and story. There is not a lot of "new" replay value to be had but there aren't any new scenes in Desperado, either (not that Desperado had that great story or dialogue. In this case MP is actually superior).

Multiple endings are probably the best way to go, that way there is something new to see on the replay but you're still getting a great story. If the story deviates enough it'd be like playing six different games if the stories really did feel different based on your choices (I don't know if a game has ever really attempted that, though, and still kept the gameplay. Like Heavy Rain for instance was supposedly pretty good with choices affecting the plot but there wasn't a whole lot of gameplay to be had).

[Doc ock rokc]

Originally Posted by NonCon

Nocturne was a game that was very story centric in a way, without detracting from the game-play. Although the story doesn't change, there are six paths you can take, each with its own ending, and there's a New Game+ mode so I'd say it has a great story and replay value.

yes but the time put aside to make that game would have been too much in the fast world of video games. Few companies have the power time and resources to make the game that way every time. Plus because the story is the same it discourages some gamers from playing again. So while you got to play the game 6 times most likely the average one played it once. Believe it or not it's one of the few beefs alot of players had with Heavy Rain & SH Shattered Memories. It had Only one story. and if you saw it once you see it again. no real big changes.

[Magus]

Oh, I thought Heavy Rain had big story changes depending on the path you took? I guess I was wrong about that one. Haven't played it.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Doc ock rokc

yes but the time put aside to make that game would have been too much in the fast world of video games. Few companies have the power time and resources to make the game that way every time. Plus because the story is the same it discourages some gamers from playing again. So while you got to play the game 6 times most likely the average one played it once. Believe it or not it's one of the few beefs alot of players had with Heavy Rain & SH Shattered Memories. It had Only one story. and if you saw it once you see it again. no real big changes.

Yeah, but there are the gameplay perks of playing through a second time, too, which compliments the fact that you can get multiple endings, and actually makes getting to those endings quicker.

[Doc ock rokc]

Originally Posted by Magus

Oh, I thought Heavy Rain had big story changes depending on the path you took? I guess I was wrong about that one. Haven't played it.

there is and isn't the villain is the same throughout though. which is a big beef.

[Magus]

Erm, unless the lack of an option to join the killer and making some former ally into the "villain" irked you, I'd say that keeping the basic elements of the story the same while allowing you different ways to accomplish your ends is a pretty basic attempt at replay value but it definitely lends replay value. MGS3 had the same exact story every time (almost), but you could do about six billion different things to beat each boss or sneak through each area. If there genuinely aren't enough choices in Heavy Rain, though, then that would be a point, but I was under the impression it was full of choices which affected how the events of the plot played out, even if it always ultimately leads to a showdown with the villain.

[Kim]

I'm not sure I agree with the general opinion, since I haven't played Heavy Rain, but I think the villain remaining the same hurts the story because it's a mystery, rather than another genre. Part of the selling point is figuring out who the bad guy is, so it loses some of the fun if you already know. Not sure I agree, but that's the thought.