Child rearing.

[Mondt]

I got my cell phone in 10th grade. I was perfectly fine. Home phones work too, and you can use AIM to text people.

I still barely use it. I use less than 1000 texts a month. I have plenty of social life. I think.

[Aerozord]

I dont know about most children, but do you know what would work on me when I was little.

An explaination.

Behavior modification only conditions responces reguardless of the method of punishment you use you only teach the child to not do something out of fear of a punishment. Rewards have a simular flaw as the kid only does something because he gets something else out of it. All this does is condition people that mindlessly follow what those of influence tell them to follow out of fear or greed. Again maybe I wasn't a normal child, but I was fully capable of understanding why I shouldn't wonder away, play in the house, or throw a tantrum. But no, average parent just smacks the kid and tells him to stop. Does this get the kid to stop? Yea, but doesn't let him know why you are doing it, why he shouldn't do it, why you are upset or teach how to make better choices. All it teaches is "do what I say or you get hit", simular can be said for other forms of punishment

[bluestarultor]

Pocheros, the only reason I used an anecdote was to provide a counterexample to IQ's own sample size of one.

I'm sorry this has devolved so far, but I've been saying everything you've "countered" me with. Spanking is NOT the end-all-be-all, but it's also not, or in my opinion, shouldn't be, off the table in cases where it's the best solution. Punishment should always be tailored to a child's individual needs and I have never said otherwise.

[pochercoaster]

Oh, I skimmed IQ's posts, so I didn't realize that. (I also just finished an 11 1/2 hour short-staffed shift, so brain's kinda not worky.) My bad.

[krogothwolf]

See, I can't stand the parents that have no idea how to raise or punish a kid. This family in my neighbourhood doesn't feel like punishment is right for kids, and their children are little fucking hellions. Seriously, I was bad as a kid, but I didn't go running down the street with a Hockey stick smackin peoples bushes and shit to pieces. Or run through a store knocking everything over. These kids do, and the mom just goes "tut tut tut, don't do that dear." Kid laughs and breaks more stuff and she just shrugs her shoulders and pretty much gives up. Gah, they drive me nuts. GAAAAAAH

Also, my Wife's friend has kid, and does the whole "reward" thing. Work's great on her oldest son but is lost on her youngest. She tells him not to eat any snacks before supper, he does it anyways and she just goes no. He's been told in my house not to pick up anything without asking. He picked up my finally finished painted and Glued Warhammer Dragon Rider and fucking breaks it, then tries to hide it as he goes to play the Wii. I yelled at him and told him he's not allowed to play the game anymore. He whines and the mom comforts him like he did nothing bad. Lady, he did do something bad. Then he starts eating my snack food even though his mom keeps going "no don't do that" over and over again. So I go in a loud voice "Bowen, don't eat anymore" And he sulks and wants to go home cause he got yelled at.

My wife disagrees with what I did because I shouldn't be discipline someone's kid for them because that's not how the mom raises them. I contend that when it comes to my stuff and my house, if the mom isn't going to keep her kid in line, I will.

On spanking, again, I hope to god I never have to but If I have a kid that's like me, He'll probably need to be. I'll try everything before hand but it'll happen if it's needed.

Also, raising kids in a commune could be cool, but could also fail due to many different opinions and ideas the kids would be so confused with what to do. Plus it would start destroying the bond parents have with their children. Which is a great feeling if you ask me and should never be removed.

And NonCon should totally have a kid!

[Archbio]

Looking through Krylo's site for the name at the moment, but comparing spankings to genocide doesn't hold much water, either.

Edit: False analogy.

But... Krylo wasn't drawing an analogy. How can it be a false analogy?

Look. My problem was with Krylo calling his own demonstration of the flaw in your argument a fallacy, because it superficially appears to belong in the same category, something which I've been seeing online a good deal (for example any insult will be called an ad hominem fallacy, which is a mistake that I've made in the past myself, but that's nevertheless a mistake.)

It's not because you craft an argument to defend spankings and that slavery is brought up doesn't mean that there's a fallacy in action. The two things being connected aren't spanking and slavery: it's your argument to defend spanking and a very hypothetical, yet identical (which is the point,) argument to defend slavery.

The examples chosen are strong, but that doesn't invalidate the point (see: Amnesty International's Gulags and the misapplication of Godwin's Law.)

Peoples of the net, please stop using fallacies fallaciously.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Archbio

But... Krylo wasn't drawing an analogy. How can it be a false analogy?

Look. My problem was with Krylo calling his own demonstration of the flaw in your argument a fallacy, because it superficially appears to belong in the same category, something which I've been seeing online a good deal (for example any insult will be called an ad hominem fallacy, which is a mistake that I've made in the past myself, but that's nevertheless a mistake.)

It's not because you craft an argument to defend spankings and that slavery is brought up doesn't mean that there's a fallacy in action. The two things being connected aren't spanking and slavery: it's your argument to defend spanking and a very hypothetical, yet identical (which is the point,) argument to defend slavery.

The examples chosen are strong, but that doesn't invalidate the point (see: Amnesty International's Gulags and the misapplication of Godwin's Law.)

Peoples of the net, please stop using fallacies fallaciously.

Pardon me, but I really don't see how spankings, if we are viewing them as an evil, are nearly as harmful as witch burnings, genocide, and slavery.

Yes, they are vaguely related (if one boils it down to the simple concept of violence, and the concept of slavery doesn't even qualify for that). No, they are not comparable. They are not identical because nobody is being killed, enslaved, or otherwise subjected to crimes against humanity in a spanking. A false analogy is a fallacy in which a comparison is made between two unlike objects. A spanking is unlike the atrocities he listed by virtue of a vast difference in both scale and severity. It stands.

[krogothwolf]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

They are not identical because nobody is being killed, enslaved, or otherwise subjected to crimes against humanity.

That's not overly true. At most it should be a firm smack on the butt that's not hard enough to leave a mark. The problem is that Spanking is a tool for bad parents to control their kids, and it can lead to those 3 things if it's taken to extremes, which some parents do.

[Kim]

Blues, you're missing the entire point of the argument, which is "That it was okay fifty years ago does not mean that it should be okay now." Just because it isn't as bad as those things does not change that fact. "It was okay fifty years ago" is in no way anything resembling a legit argument. Hell, let's throw out "Gays can't get married."

"Well, gays haven't been able to get married for freakin ever, and society hasn't collapsed, obviously that means it's okay." That is the argument you are making, and it is an absolutely terrible one. If you want to say spankings are okay, you're more than welcome to, just try to use less terrible arguments to "prove" it.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by krogothwolf

That's not overly true. At most it should be a firm smack on the butt that's not hard enough to leave a mark. The problem is that Spanking is a tool for bad parents to control their kids, and it can lead to those 3 things if it's taken to extremes, which some parents do.

That's not what I'm arguing, though. That's a slippery slope argument. I'm talking specifically about spankings, not how spankings can lead to one thing or another and it's not my fault that New York got hit with a nuke, officer, honest!

If we want to talk about beatings, that's an entirely different topic. And no, I will never condone beatings.



Edit:

Originally Posted by NonCon

Blues, you're missing the entire point of the argument, which is "That it was okay fifty years ago does not mean that it should be okay now." Just because it isn't as bad as those things does not change that fact. "It was okay fifty years ago" is in no way anything resembling a legit argument. Hell, let's throw out "Gays can't get married."

"Well, gays haven't been able to get married for freakin ever, and society hasn't collapsed, obviously that means it's okay." That is the argument you are making, and it is an absolutely terrible one. If you want to say spankings are okay, you're more than welcome to, just try to use less terrible arguments to "prove" it.

Again, not comparable. I'm going to step away from this and cool down, because people aren't listening to what I'm actually saying and I need to chill until I can find clearer terms that will be harder to misunderstand or skirt around.