Do You Think It's Alright To Have An Abortion If Your Child Is Diagnosed Ill In Utero

[Premmy]

It depends, and there's a lot to say concerning Ableism

Sighted:"Oh it must be soooo terrible being you, I couldnt LIVE if I was blind"
Blind Guy: "I'm going to start kicking your ass now, tell me what it looks like"

If I learned that the child would have a condition that would cause it to suffer for two weeks, get worse, then die? Yes I'd probably abort it. If I found out my child would be born with a mental or physical disability? probably not.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Premonitions

It depends, and there's a lot to say concerning Ableism

Sighted:"Oh it must be soooo terrible being you, I couldnt LIVE if I was blind"
Blind Guy: "I'm going to start kicking your ass now, tell me what it looks like"

If I learned that the child would have a condition that would cause it to suffer for two weeks, get worse, then die? Yes I'd probably abort it. If I found out my child would be born with a mental or physical disability? probably not.

Both my wife and I find the idea of abortion reprehensible in general. Killing a living person usually for the sake of personal convenience: this is what most abortions are. I understand those who say, "I've the best interests of the child in mind" - you really want to help. Even so, who's to say that child would agree? Autistic children, those with Downs, they can live long, healthy lives, even do great and interesting things. Destitute families who "couldn't afford" their children have resulted incredible, world-changing people throughout history. "Incurable", "inevitable" death isn't always - my mother survived a cancer that was "unsurvivable". It's not easy, and I don't wish make light of people's decisions, but ultimately, when abortion is decided (one way or the other) a person is deciding to take someone else's life into their own hands without that other persons' opinion or consent. Would I like to go through life without feet? No. But I'd surly rather have my feet amputated and continue to live than die just so I could keep my two walking thingies. Similarly, sight, hearing, even taste: these are things I wouldn't want to give up, but I'd rather live, just because there might be something, somewhere out there that I find that makes my life worth living for.

This is why "incurable" diseases aren't something that sways me. I know I don't want to live life 'disabled', but I'd much rather live disabled than die. Life sucking right now? Well, I'm not going to kill myself because of it. I'm also not going to kill someone else because of it.

For me, one personal example, is that my twelve year old niece. She was "supposed" to die anyway shortly after being born: four months premature, infected with disease, her twin brother also dying, and my sister likely to die during the delivery. My sister refused an entire medical staff when they indicated that abortion was the only way to save her life. My sister is fully recovered (and went on to have a second set of beautiful, healthy twins), and now, my niece is healthy, having survived her "certain death" disease, has grown out of her "life-long" asthma, and is a math and music prodigy.

To clarify, while I know that this isn't a board for deep religious debates, I have to explain that much of both my wife's and my own opinions come from our deep faith in the Lord. We're Christians, very committed, and we believe strongly in principle of the sanctity of human life. Further, we have friends - people who are in our lives - who have had abortions. Christian or not, universally, with no preaching or prompting on either of our parts (we aren't into the whole "guilt you" thing with our friends), there is a very long-lasting regret.

One other thing about the tests: they aren't always right. My god-daughter was "known" - mind you the doctors claimed certainty - to have downs. She did not, and shows absolutely zero signs of the disease. She is, in fact, above average in every category at her school.

And, to dispel any question, all these doctors I've mentioned were from across the east coast of the USA. North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, the Bahamas, and several in California and (if I recall correctly) New York and Illinois - people from across our fair country performing tests and making claims of certainty. These tests have been done across the course of two decades, the most recent three years ago. Medical science, though very advanced, and something I am personally very thankful for, isn't perfect, and can be wrong. My life and family have proven that over and over again.

Oh, and I had no discernible heart beat for quite some time while I was in the womb. My mother was told I was probably dead and would likely need to be aborted. *checking my pulse* I seem to be doing okay.

What my wife and I have decided is to take whatever comes, and love that person, doing the best of our ability to create a good life for as long as they (or we) have it. It might not be easy, but "easy" rarely comes packaged with "life".

EDIT:

Originally Posted by NonCon

Depends on whether or not the person having the child wants an abortion. If it's a matter of deciding whether or not you want one, I think it would largely depend on your ability to raise a child with that condition.

That brings up another reason often given for abortions - the inability to raise the child. Adoption agencies do exist. While adoption isn't easy, infants are often adopted rapidly. And simply not wanting to give up your child to someone else is pure selfishness. On a final note, "inability" normally is little more than "unwillingness". We're spoiled here in the States. If we can't give clean running water, three squares, and a warm bed, we presume that we have nothing. Try telling that to those who lived in abject poverty in Lithuania. I lived there for several years after the Soviet Union fell. When we first arrived, people were thrilled when they had "meat" (a piece roughly equivalent to the length of a cut nail, and half as wide) in the entire pot of "chicken noodle soup". In restaurants too. Usually a single-family apartment had three or four living in it. The water had to be boiled in five iterations to separate out the junk that was in it (pouring off the top each time), and hot water was only turned on when the Pope was in town or when it had been below -5 degrees for five days in a row (specifically, this was so the pipes didn't burst). I learned really quickly that life did not revolve around what we normally consider 'necessities' here in the States. This is not easy living. And this was some far sight better than tribal villages I've visited in the Philippines who live without medical assistance or electricity or running water at all, yet somehow still manage to have babies who grow up to have fulfilling lives. Again, I'm not making light of how difficult such a life is. It's hard. I know this. But there are many options here in the States to help with that. There are people who are willing to raise children with disabilities. I know a couple in North Carolina who sought out a retarded child because she was retarded, and raised her, so that she'd have someone to take care of her.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by tacticslion

Killing a living person usually for the sake of personal convenience: this is what most abortions are.

Originally Posted by tacticslion

On a final note, "inability" normally is little more than "unwillingness".

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Premonitions

edit: actualy I guess it does kinda have something to do with my post, it's just lost in all the other stuff. Carry on.

Yeah, I ramble. Sorry.

Originally Posted by NonCon

Hey, I never claimed not to be an arrogant, self-righteous, upstart religious hypocrite who hates all who disagrees with me, rawr!

In truth, this is what my experience has been, and who I've talked to through most of my life. What I've got is my own experience to give examples. Most of the time when people say "I can't" to anything, what they are saying is "I don't see the way in which I can, because I have all these other things that seem important to me which get in the way". In other words, we (and I include myself in this) let our desires get in the way of what we really can do, but don't feel like putting the effort.

For whatever reason, a parent decides it's not worth it to give this new person a life if the parent can't provide (of their own ability, i.e. without going to others for help) access to clean water, plenty of food, and new clothes. Never mind the fact that the new parent(s) decided to pleasure themselves with the very real likelihood of pregnancy (and a new life) coming along with it.

The majority of abortions don't go, "oh, well my baby may have downs/MS/autism/deafness/blindness/club foot, they'd be better off dead" (itself a fallacy). Just because of our own thoughtlessness, we compound that with, "Whelp, I can't provide the life to which I'm accustomed with a baby, so the best bet is to kill them." This is wrong. Adoption, help clinics, all sorts of agencies to give alternatives to abortion. It's a materialistic mindset that we can all easily fall into applied to a very real aspect of determining whether or not someone else lives or dies. Its the inability to see past ourselves that often leads us to incorrect decisions - abortion (in my mind) being one of them.

With that, I should really probably pull out of the discussion. I've given my opinion, which is all Seil asked for. I recognize I'm not the majority in this forum, and can't debate someone into accepting my view. But I hope at least it makes what I said a bit clearer.