Pokemon Umbral Theatre 3: Dedicated to Cosplaying Pokemon Trainers Part 1

[Geminex]

Crit:
Well, see, my problem is this:
If we use your proposal for speed, speed really wouldn't be worth it. I mean, a few stages in crit? Sure, it can be helpful. And not getting critted back is pretty useful too.

But I think that it's already at the limit. And making speed the "less important" crit factor (cause you can feasibly reach max, or close to max, without it), really makes it just a dump stat. As does the existence of items which boost crit as much as a good speed stat would (because if you have the choice between a hold item and having to put lots of points into speed, which would you take?).

If we want crit to be dependent on a stat, we need to make it depend on that stat heavily, because otherwise that stat would just be far less important than the others.

That's why I made my proposal the way I made it, I want speed to be just as valuable as attack or sp. attack. And if we do things your way, I really don't think it is.

My way's a bit better (I think), though you're right in that it disadvantages a few pokemon. But if it really becomes necessary we can re-buff those on a case-by-case basis, when they pop up in the RP. Better than leaving the speed stat crippled.

Drac...

Well, in total you're, I think, getting 360 base stats (+ 50 to everything, with another +30 to defensive stats) for Pierce throughout your progression. Plus, your mons all get +30, as you've said. You get some accessories, some custom hold items, some trainer actions. I actually think that works really well. If anything, you're a bit below Menarker's level, since he, I think, has more offensive power still. Though only slightly...

And about Cover:
Would this be a free action?
Would Pierce get rage from it?
Would Pierce be able to counter with it?
Not saying it'd be imbalanced if it were, just want to know.

Other than that, everything seems cool with your template. Unless you drastically change that, we should be able to work out any future changes you'd like to make.

That was actually the reason I wanted Menarker to go first. I didn't see anything wrong with it. And yeah, like I said, still don't. 'Xcept for those questions about cover, everything's fine.

[Dracorion]

Yeah, Menarker, I did intend for the bonus to be divided between Pierce's pokemon originally.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Drac...

Well, in total you're, I think, getting 360 base stats (+ 50 to everything, with another +30 to defensive stats) for Pierce throughout your progression. Plus, your mons all get +30, as you've said. You get some accessories, some custom hold items, some trainer actions. I actually think that works really well. If anything, you're a bit below Menarker's level, since he, I think, has more offensive power still. Though only slightly...

Yep. The difference being Pierce is less Rage-reliant and his power level is more consistent.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And about Cover:
Would this be a free action?

I could have it use up Pierce's attacking action, though he'd still be able to use an item.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Would Pierce get rage from it?

Well, it has an RP cost, and I believe the rule for skills that cost Rage is that you don't gain Rage when you use them.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Would Pierce be able to counter with it?

Well, my gut instinct says yes. I promise not to actually enact the game-breaking strategy I posted before.


You okay with Menarker's suggestion that the Inspiration boost should apply fully to both of Pierce's pokemon instead of splitting it between them?

Also, about that decreased Rage cost Pierce gets for Demon Half 4.

I was thinking it should apply to stuff like accessory use, Sweep (if Pierce had it), Focus and Divide, and of course Cover. I dunno about having it apply to Signature Techniques and Love-techs. I'm thinkin' no.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Crit:
Well, see, my problem is this:
If we use your proposal for speed, speed really wouldn't be worth it. I mean, a few stages in crit? Sure, it can be helpful. And not getting critted back is pretty useful too.

But I think that it's already at the limit. And making speed the "less important" crit factor (cause you can feasibly reach max, or close to max, without it), really makes it just a dump stat. As does the existence of items which boost crit as much as a good speed stat would (because if you have the choice between a hold item and having to put lots of points into speed, which would you take?).

If we want crit to be dependent on a stat, we need to make it depend on that stat heavily, because otherwise that stat would just be far less important than the others.

That's why I made my proposal the way I made it, I want speed to be just as valuable as attack or sp. attack. And if we do things your way, I really don't think it is.

My way's a bit better (I think), though you're right in that it disadvantages a few pokemon. But if it really becomes necessary we can re-buff those on a case-by-case basis, when they pop up in the RP. Better than leaving the speed stat crippled.

I don't agree. Speed's main feature is about the clash between targets between their speed and your speed. Against bosses and speedfreaks, if you don't have a naturally high speed of your own, you won't be critting at all unless you're also packing crit moves. High speed is an insurance. If your speed is standard, or just a bit above standard, you can't rely on it all the time.

I agree Speed should have more relevance... but not solely as THE crit stat, but with additional things like evasion or so. I think that Crit should NOT be a stat that is easy to max. With my system, speed pokemons and crit types are balanced in how they can reach 25% or 33% chance of crit. But reaching 50% becomes more of a milestone for both of them. (Also, speed pokemons still have a slight advantage in that they are acheiving crit while using moves that do not specialize in crit and thus have more freedom in their moves)

What I'm trying to prevent is the demostrated example using your proposal where the speed types gain an incredible near constant 50% chance of critting... just for being sweepers (high power and speed, low defense) or speed freaks (high speed only). Let's take Renny's Shaymin or Charlotte's Aerodactyl. You think they should gain 50% crit on legendary moves like Seed Flare or AOE moves like Rock Slide? (I'm temporaily ignoring that Aerodactyl has access to Stone Edge and thus is a very fine example of a valid candidate for 50% crit chance.) I think 25% is the max that should be allowed on the scale for those who aren't taking measures to try to be more reliable crit users.

You say that the existance of crit items make crit more important than speed, but speed items and abilities also exist especially in temporary boosts like X Speed, available by medics, but those would also boost destroyer/sniper evasion as opposed to making only crit boosts count for later. Boosting crit is only a single purpose mechanic. To boost crit. Speed can feasibly be used for evasion as proposed with evading snipers/destroyers. A single X Speed boosts the user's speed by 50%, which is quite a leap for anything with 100+ speed.

I think that speed shouldn't get more of a boost in terms of crit because Crit is not supposed to be maximized at higher than 50% and even then not easily. However, if there was something else we could apply speed to, like evasion in general, I'd be willing to apply that. Crit is meant to be not all that frequent and is supposed to be a gamble in the first place. It's for all intent and purpose, the offense version of the non-existent "luck stat" Getting 50% crit should be difficult for those who aren't built for it. 25% JUST for being faster than your foe is 1/4 chance of succeeding. 33% chance for having a razor fang on top of that is even better. If on the off chance, you have a crit move and the razor fang and you lose out on the speed thing, you're still at that 33% level. (or 25% just for having the crit move, but if you're having a crit move, you're probably intending on trying to crit and thus holding razor fang)

So, to sum up, I say no to giving more crit bonus for Speed, but I think Speed should gain other bonuses related to other mechanics.

Proposed Crit rules to sum up:
All attackers start at stage 1.
The scale is
Stage 1: 6.25%
Stage 2: 12.5%
Stage 3: 25%
Stage 4: 33.3%
Stage 5: 50%

Having higher speed than the ones you're attacking gives you +2 stage boost.
Attacking with a Improved Critical Hit move gives you a +2 stage boost.
Items or abilities like Dire Hit, Super Luck or Focus Energy gives you +1 Stage Boost.


You guys better not complain about Mollesk now! You realize crits bypass buffs to defense and all that! (Although naturally high defense is still active). Guaranteed 25% chance of critting Mollesk (due to his shitty speed) is quite huge!