Pokemon Umbral Theatre 6: Player Conspiracies

[Dracorion]

No fuck you I'm not going to muddle through that clusterfuck again just to see if Impact does or doesn't get to lead in the final mission.

I WILL say that I don't remember anything even remotely like that ever coming up.

Originally Posted by Geminex

How did Renny provide this information, though? I mean, yeah. Mollesk belongs to him. He brought it in. But that's pretty much the extent of his contribution. He didn't really do any work.

Yep.

He could've chosen not to bring it in, though. It would provide a tactical advantage if his one-of-a-kind pokemon wasn't plastered all over the newspapers for all the enemies to see, after all.

Yeah, let him keep his hundred thousand dollars.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Huh. Really. "Tons of Data".
Yeah, gonna call bullshit on that one. Unless she dissected it, and analyzed the processes going on in its body, I don't think she could get anything useful from it.

Oh come on man, this is fantasy, and this is Ricewood.

You think she wouldn't have some fancy scanner thing that she'd just zap over Mollesk and BING! Everything you ever wanted to know?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And once again, I really don't think she can learn enough by studying it from the outside to gain much scientific knowlege. Certainly not make any new discoveries that could be integrated into Slayer weapons or accessories.

You wouldn't know!

For all we know Mollesk's wine could have some very special properties (okay, so it doesn't do anything harmful because we drank it, but maybe it has a lot of vitamins or whatever).

Also, they could gain some insight into tougher armor by looking at Mollesk's shell.

Originally Posted by Geminex

But see, I don't think it applies to pokemon. Because I'm pretty sure that whatever pokemon gain their power from, it ain't science. Mollesk's armor isn't as strong as it is because of its chemical makeup, and it isn't capable of exerting pretty huge physcial force because its tentacles are so well-muscled. I don't think any of the biological mechanisms Mollesk uses can be replicated by science, or would be of any help to engineers.

Well, I also don't know where pokemon get their powers from that lets them execute moves.

BUT! If I understand correctly, some of their more innate abilities really are just biological processes. Like, Pikachu isn't an annoying walking battery because OMGMAGIC or whatever, it's biology lets it absorb and generate large amounts of electricity.

Plus, you say those biological mechanisms can't be replicated by science, and yet look at Slayer weapons and armor.

Originally Posted by Geminex

I'm not even arguing about the money here, mind you. Let Renny have his 100 000, make if 500 000 if you want to! Just sayin' that pokemon research has absolutely no scientific value, outside from better understanding pokemon.

That's a problem?

Pokemon are a huge part of the world, you know (and that's an understatement). They have a whole branch of science dedicated to them, probably.

And perhaps the Umbral world does place a little too much importance on them, but the fact is any contribution like discovering a whole new pokemon is going to have a huge impact.

And it's not like other brances of science are getting shafted either. Look at Ricewood, for Chrissakes! And apparently the world has airships, too. And probably all kinds of cool shit we don't know.

That said, I call dibs on having Pierce be the one to encourage humanity to actually perfect space travel and colonize other planets. Because then, with the overpopulation issue solved, he can bring in a bunch of Magatama, breed 'em, feed 'em to everyone and effectively rid humanity of Death.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Also, I assumed the whole "Using Mio" thing is just another way of showing the fact that PATCA, and Hommnyran society in general will embrace incredibly immoral actions if they are necessary in times of crisis.

AB doesn't think that deep.

[Geminex]

BUT! If I understand correctly, some of their more innate abilities really are just biological processes. Like, Pikachu isn't an annoying walking battery because OMGMAGIC or whatever, it's biology lets it absorb and generate large amounts of electricity.

No, Just... no. Whatever pokemon do, it isn't science. Everything from the fact that they have to learn moves, to the fact that the have types at all, to the whole "weaknesses and resistances" thing, over stats, even on to pokeballs, that'd all be complete and utter bullshit.

Pikachu, for instance. First, it'd be an eating machine. Generating that much electricity takes one hell of a lot of energy, and that energy has to be metabolised. It'd eat more than a Snorlax, and I don't even think its digestive system could accommodate all of that. Secondly, the whole "shoot lightning" thing? Yeah, that doesn't actually work. If it eats enough and its metabolism can accommodate it, sure. It can generate charge within its body. But it can't control how this discharges. It'd have to find a way to modify its targets charge as well, and that's more-or-less impossible, by any standards. And even if that weren't the case, it would be dead. It channels lightning through its body regularly. Even if its organs don't get horribly damaged by that, whatever its nervous systems consist of, it'd be long-gone, unless it uses some kind of system that's purely chemical-based. In which case it'd take the thing at least 10-20 seconds to react to outside stimuli.
And that's just pikachu. Most of the pokemon mechanics (see all the stuff I mentioned above) suddenly stop making sense if you try to apply science to them, and that's not because I'm mis-applying science. Considering that humans on Hommnyr exist the same way we do here, we can be fairly sure that the same physical laws apply. And under those physical laws, pokemon are pretty much impossible.
So yeah, pokemon and science? No. Just... no.
Elemental spirits, fine.
Animals that have been modified by a godlike being to magically defy the laws of physics, fine. I like this one.
But real animals, that obey laws of nature? Fuck no. That shit... it doesn't even dream of flight, this time. It lives in a narrow, dark, dusty mineshaft, 2 miles underground, in which it can barely stand up as it mines for coal in return for some watery gruel every day. It has lived there all its life and even knowing what the sky looks like would kill it from the sheer beauty and freedom. It cannot even comprehend the concept of flight without going insane. Sometimes, it dreams of having enough room to stretch.

For all we know Mollesk's wine could have some very special properties (okay, so it doesn't do anything harmful because we drank it, but maybe it has a lot of vitamins or whatever).

Also, they could gain some insight into tougher armor by looking at Mollesk's shell.

Anyway, above rant, that's why I don't think either of those two work. What pokemon do isn't science, and can't be replicated by science. And even if it was, bionics is still limited. It takes a lot of research to find out exactly why a natural construct works the way it does, and even more to find a way to replicate this in the necessary situation.
Often, it's cheaper and quicker to just start from scratch. There's easier ways to find engineering solutions to problems than to tame and analyze the superpowered god-animals which walk among us.

Plus, you say those biological mechanisms can't be replicated by science, and yet look at Slayer weapons and armor.

That's science with the same function as pokemon stuff. It doesn't replicate pokemon stuff. The Flamethrower doesn't use the same mechanism that Charizard uses, I'd imagine.
I'd have to concede stuff like psychic and ghost rifles, but there's ways to justify those. The easiest way would be to assume that "psychic" power (in this case, I'd define it as "the ability of beings to influence reality through force of will") is in the realm of science, and goon from there.

Mind you, I'm not standing here and going "THIS RP MUST BE SCIENTIFICALLY LOGICAL AND REALISTIC". That's the last thing I'd do. I'm saying, however, that, in this RP, there are things that can be explained by science, however tenuously, and things that, quite simply, can't. The former should be said to remain within the realm of science, and said to be governed by the laws of science. It'd be a waste of time and effort, however, to attempt to justify the latter through science, which is why we should concede that it, in fact, is not science. Hand-wave it, save us all a lot of effort.

Edit: As for this:

And it's not like other branches of science are getting shafted either. Look at Ricewood, for Chrissakes! And apparently the world has airships, too. And probably all kinds of cool shit we don't know.

True. But I'm saying that research in other branches would be even more advanced if people weren't obsessed with pokemon.

That said, I call dibs on having Pierce be the one to encourage humanity to actually perfect space travel and colonize other planets. Because then, with the overpopulation issue solved, he can bring in a bunch of Magatama, breed 'em, feed 'em to everyone and effectively rid humanity of Death.

Wow. Ambitious, huh? Nice. Good luck with that. Though how're you gonna do it? I mean, it's not like Pierce is gonna be EMPEROR OF THE WORLD or anything.
Seriously, leave the plans to save humanity to the guy who can actually implement them IC.

[Dracorion]

Fair enough, I see your point.

We'd have a better time making sense of it if we knew how some of the Slayer weapons like the Dragon Slave worked.

But that's not going to happen.

As for Psychics, really? Whose force of will are you exerting when you blast the psychic rifle, then?

Also, Pierce has a hell of a lot of willpower (misused on stubborness, I guess you could say), yet you don't see him bending any spoons.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Edit: As for this:

True. But I'm saying that research in other branches would be even more advanced if people weren't obsessed with pokemon.

Not while pokemon are still incredibly useful to society on their own.

Society's become a little to dependent on them? Sure. But that does not mean pokemon should get shafted. Pokemon research 'n shit should get to see it's fair share of development. And by fair share I mean a lot.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Wow. Ambitious, huh? Nice. Good luck with that. Though how're you gonna do it? I mean, it's not like Pierce is gonna be EMPEROR OF THE WORLD or anything.
Seriously, leave the plans to save humanity to the guy who can actually implement them IC.

Who needs to rule the world?

A) Elizabeth is rich, and B) what, the world is just going to say no to Immortality for free, even if you do have to go through a little bit of pain to get it?

[Geminex]

As for Psychics, really? Whose force of will are you exerting when you blast the psychic rifle, then?

I'm going to tie this into quantum mechanics. One of the main stipulates thereof is that being observed changes the state of particles. A photon travelling through space is really just a cloud of probability, of potential photons. The photon doesn't actually have a position until it's observed.
But I'm sure you knew all that.
I'd assume that psychic power would simply involve using that effect on a far larger scale, along with changing the user's perception of that which is observed. Humans would be capable of the process to a small degree, the psychic rifle strongly replicates that process through technology, psychic pokemon replicate the process through the power that Exist gave them.

Not while pokemon are still incredibly useful to society on their own.

hahahahahaha OH WOW
Seriously. How're they useful. All they do is limit humanity's progress by making most, if not all, kinds of industry impossible.

Who needs to rule the world?

A) Elizabeth is rich, and B) what, the world is just going to say no to Immortality for free, even if you do have to go through a little bit of pain to get it?

Ok, are you seriously talking about Pierce starting a space program while rebelling against Impact? Seriously?
Also, I really don't think that "immortality for free" is practical. Or, y'know, that you've even come close to considering the conditions. I mean what's gonna happen, Pierce is going to get 6 billion magatama from the kimonos, give the entire world immortality and demonic powers and then everything will be perfect forever? It'd be fucking anarchy. Seriously, are you trying to make Pierce some sort of terrorist?

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

How did Renny provide this information, though? I mean, yeah. Mollesk belongs to him. He brought it in. But that's pretty much the extent of his contribution. He didn't really do any work.

Only thing I want to add is that Renny brought up the possibility that evolution stones could react in ways other than simple contact. (Mollesk came as a result of a Moon Stone being dissolved in strong acidic juices and consumed) This could mean a big difference to those focusing on the studies of evolution or the studies of the stones themselves (such as its possibilities for Evoliths). Mind you, it's entirely homebrewed stuff, but all the same it's not much stranger than some of the other bug pokemons which have weird evolutions like Shedninja.

Also, a lot of pokemons are hinted to have powers that aren't related to combat. Muk is famous for having such horrible sludge that any land it travels on becomes useless for agriculture. Snorlax on the other hand makes any land it walks on fertile for the sake of producing enough food to support its massive appetite. These researches may have more implications in society than what can be gleaned for combat specific moves and abilities. That's all roleplaying stuff though.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

hahahahahaha OH WOW
Seriously. How're they useful. All they do is limit humanity's progress by making most, if not all, kinds of industry impossible.

Electrode power for every city!

Obviously not all of them, but yeah a bunch of them.

And even if they didn't, pokemon can be used to protect humans from, y'know, wild pokemon. Because I'm sure Metal Hell and Miasma Mountain Range aren't there only places with pokemon that want to eat your intestines.

You could, of course, train everyone to defend themselves, but what are you going to do with the people that just can't, because they're too frail or whatever? "Sorry Timmy, you can't go out ever again because you can't lift a sword."

No, your best bet would be to drive all pokemon extinct, which is slightly impossible. I suppose you could close off every city forever, but then no one would ever be able to travel from city to city unless they're a grizzled warrior.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Ok, are you seriously talking about Pierce starting a space program while rebelling against Impact? Seriously?

Nah, he'd start a space program after Impact is defeated.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Also, I really don't think that "immortality for free" is practical. Or, y'know, that you've even come close to considering the conditions. I mean what's gonna happen, Pierce is going to get 6 billion magatama from the kimonos, give the entire world immortality and demonic powers and then everything will be perfect forever? It'd be fucking anarchy. Seriously, are you trying to make Pierce some sort of terrorist?

More like get a bunch, and then breed six billion from that bunch.

Also, I have no doubt that Impact's going to label Pierce a terrorist anyway.

So, let's see. Magatama give powers according to a person's personality or whatever, correct? So everyone would be special in their own way, which means no one would be special.

Hmmm, how is that different from how things are now? Oh right, people can't die from disease or old age.

EDIT: So, if Menarker's right, Muk are Weapons of Mass Destruction and Snorlax could single-handedly solve world hunger.

[Geminex]

These researches may have more implications in society than what can be gleaned for combat specific moves and abilities.

Well, like I said: I'm saying that nothing can be gained from researching pokemon's attributes, because said attributes can't be scientifically replicated. This is because pokemon don't use science, they use whatever magic Exist gave them. They have to be, cause what they're doing sure ain't science. And for all intents and purposes, I really don't think science can replicate magic. Copy its effects, yes, but what works for pokemon won't work for humans.

It'd be pretty retarded if it did. Cause Exist specifically gave pokemon those powers because humans with their technology were screwing over nature. If humans were capable of copying those powers, all exist would have done was delay them for a few centuries, and in the process given them the means to advance technology far, far further than it would have gone had Exist not interfered. So yeah, it'd be pretty stupid.

Oh, and I just saw this:

No fuck you I'm not going to muddle through that clusterfuck again just to see if Impact does or doesn't get to lead in the final mission.

I WILL say that I don't remember anything even remotely like that ever coming up.

It was in the final fucking deal. If you make me look it up for you, that'll make another 2%.

Edit:
Only just realized that Drac actually posted before me.

Electrode power for every city!

If not for electrode, humans would have had to look for alternate sources. Wind, solar maybe, both of which would have created lots of jobs for electrical engineers, which then would have further benefited electronical development in general. Or even nuclear, which would've motivated research into theoretical physics, and could have been used for a huge variety of other tasks, from power spaceships, to powering airships.

As for the wild pokemon, fair enough. But that's pretty much the only way I can think of that they've benefited society, instead of held it back. And if the only way something benefits society is by killing other things, there has to be a way to replace it.

Nah, he'd start a space program after Impact is defeated.

Allright, how about "No". Just... "No".

So, let's see. Magatama give powers according to a person's personality or whatever, correct? So everyone would be special in their own way, which means no one would be special.

Yes, only at the moment people's "special"-ness stems from their mental ability, their physical ability and their personality. Add "supernatural powers" to that equation and you've got one hell of a clustfuck. Seriously, even if everyone has them, it'd be horrible.

[Menarker]

Gem, is there any particular reason why you're so upset about the mission ending aside from what you said before?

Because if you recall, MY SIDEQUEST was ended prematurely just as I revealed Mollesk and was going to fight using him, when the battle was still uncertain who was going to win or lose. His debut battle was ended before he could use a single attack! Talk about tragic timing. >_< And while it was disappointing, I certainly didn't raise a huge fuss all about it. Not just any ordinary mission. MY CHARACTER SPECIFIC SIDEQUEST. And that one didn't even last as long as this current one.

I don't mind you getting to issue orders some time in the future, but I do think you're being more upset about it than the situation really calls for, when taking in consideration that my situation was comparably worse.

[Geminex]

Gem, is there any particular reason why you're so upset about the mission ending aside from what you said before?

Not really. I wanted to have Impact give more orders, I didn't get to, plus the plan that I thought up was pretty much hand-waved. This annoyed me.

And I do think out situations are different. None of us called for your sidequest to end prematurely, AB did that himself. If you had wanted it to go on for longer, you could have, should have, said, and I probably would even have supported you.

And if AB had decided to end this one early by himself, I probably wouldn't have put up too much of a protest either.

But see, you were directly responsible for it ending early. You asked him to repeatedly, despite my protest. I didn't really get much of a chance to object (the one objection I did make was ignored), so I do feel quite screwed over. And I did lose out on at least three or four turns' worth of orders through your direct action. So yeah, I feel compensation is appropriate.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Well, like I said: I'm saying that nothing can be gained from researching pokemon's attributes, because said attributes can't be scientifically replicated.

Still useful. Because, you know, you might just find out a use for Snorlax's fertility aura that no one's ever thought of before.

Like it can cure cancer or something.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Oh, and I just saw this:

It was in the final fucking deal. If you make me look it up for you, that'll make another 2%.

Eh, I'll get around to it sometime when it's not the middle of the night.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Edit:
Only just realized that Drac actually posted before me.

If not for electrode, humans would have had to look for alternate sources. Wind, solar maybe, both of which would have created lots of jobs for electrical engineers, which then would have further benefited electronical development in general. Or even nuclear, which would've motivated research into theoretical physics, and could have been used for a huge variety of other tasks, from power spaceships, to powering airships.

Except, y'know, nuclear is dangerous.

Also, I'm fairly certain those jobs are replaced by some other profession in the pokemon world.

Originally Posted by Geminex

As for the wild pokemon, fair enough. But that's pretty much the only way I can think of that they've benefited society, instead of held it back. And if the only way something benefits society is by killing other things, there has to be a way to replace it.

No one ever said killing! Whatever happened to just "fainting"?

Originally Posted by Geminex

Allright, how about "No". Just... "No".

Also, he probably wouldn't start his own space program.

Probably just back up one or some or all of the existing ones.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Yes, only at the moment people's "special"-ness stems from their mental ability, their physical ability and their personality. Add "supernatural powers" to that equation and you've got one hell of a clustfuck. Seriously, even if everyone has them, it'd be horrible.

Actually, aside from the occassional blasts of demonic power and elemental manipulation and shit, most Magatama powers would fall under mental and physical abilities, wouldn't they?

And everyone would probably have the increased toughness and regenerative abilities.