Pokemon Umbral Theatre 6: Player Conspiracies

[Bard The 5th LW]

Remember, Charlotte is going to be the Chris Hanson here.

Don't take that rite away from me. I called dibs.

[Dracorion]

Hey, you want Charlotte to make a move on the ten-year-old mutant?

Please, go ahead.

[Menarker]

AB, I don't mean to be a nit-picker, but doesn't Whitney have anything to say about us retrieving Muon? I mean, she's one of her best buddies and we did succeed in saving her. ^^; After all that pleading for us to try to search and rescue her prior to the start of the mission, I would have expected some sort of reunion, perhaps even a "thank you" to the group. =P

[Astral Harmony]

In due time, ya wacky yank.

[Geminex]

Edit at the top, because otherwise people won't see this:
Is there anything we should be doing? Will inter-character relationshipping take place at the beginning of next mission, or should we do that now? Cause Impact and Charlotte need to converse, and probably Impact and Renny as well.

------
Initial message below:

Pokemon are an invaluable source of utility, but I like to think of them as alien technology left behind when the aliens died out or ascended beyond the world or whatever. We discovered them. We know they can be used. We just need to do a lot of shit on our own to make them useful. Sometimes, it's even just more cost effective to not utilize Pokemon at all for various tasks.

Eh. I'm pretty sure that if not for pokemon, people would have already discovered technologies that make pokemon obsolete. I've outlined why that is above, but it's fairly simple in that:

Existence of pokemon provides solutions to a large variety of "technical" problems like how to generate energy (electric pokemon), how to do heavy lifting (fighting-type pokemon), how to travel (bird pokemon with fly) etc...
Since all these "basic" problems already have solutions, there's no need to develop technical solutions. You don't need to come up with generators, or hydraulics, or cars and airplanes. There's no demand for that kind of stuff, or for the people that're good at that kind of stuff.

Sure, that might not be a bad thing immediately. After all, who cares if we don't have airplanes? We have bird pokemon, we don't need them!
Yeah.

Thing is, pokemon are fairly limited. However well you train them or use them or equip them, using pokemon is only gonna get you so far. Sure, you can use bird pokemon to travel. But your can't deploy unmanned bird pokemon, or employ them to transport freight, or go faster than the speed of sound with them. You really never will.

Whereas with technology, after a few years, maybe a century or two, you could. Easily! But see, those high-tech aircraft are never gonna be developed. Because there won't be any basic aircraft, because there won't be any engineers, because nobody will bother studying thermodynamics, because it'll seem irrelevant. Nobody will realize the potential of technology, nobody will realize that, if they just built that basic airplane, they could improve it, and improve it some more. Nobody will understand, or bother. Because, hey, we have bird pokemon. Who wants a Wright-Brothers era airplane if you have bird pokemon?

And it's even worse, because technology is interlinked. Even if there's a "basic" task that can't be solved through liberal application of pokemon, and people start looking for a technical solution, without progress in other branches of technology, that'd be incredibly difficult! Because you'd barely have a basis on which to build your development! You'd have to do all the theoretical reasearch yourself, all of the practical research, design your own equipment, make your own tools. So much effort! And since technology doesn't really seem integral to society, there won't be any technology-oriented mindset, there won't be anyone planning to do this. Not to mention that there won't be much of an eduction system. People leave school at 10 to train pokemon. If they're lucky, they'll have learned about linear functions and the law of gravity by then. People will know nothing!

...

Over-eloquent? Maybe. But I'm trying really hard to make this point, because it's the primary reason why Hommnyr under Impact is gonna be superior to every other country on earth: Because he prefers to rely on technology over pokemon. And technology is so very much superior to pokemon if you give it a decade or two.

And I know there's been technological progress in Hommnyr. But imagine how advanced they'd be if they'd never even heard of pokemon!

Anyway, TL;DR: The existence of pokemon will hold technological progress in a society back really badly. It'll discourage any form of science that's not pokemon-related, and, in the process, screw the economy, standard of living and standards of eductation in a country over as well. This is why Impactania will be superior to every other country on earth.

And now I think I've said enough about this. Seriously, this is the third rant I've written in this vein.
Not that that's anyone's fault but my own. Still, if you want clarification, look up all the other stuff I've written.

[Dracorion]

Actually, I'm pretty sure there are airplanes in the pokemon world.

Or there should be, it's just none of the creators thought about putting them in because of the whole "ten-year-old travelling the world" gig.

But yeah, you know how there are ships in the anime and games, even though there's water pokemon?

Same for airplanes.

Also, I'm pretty sure that, while fighting-types do some of the heavy lifting pretty well, they can't compete with, y'know, A CRANE. Basically, fighting-types are not Superman.

On Electric-types. Like AB said, the only pokemon that could power a generator indefinitely would be Magnemite and it's evolutions. BUT, every single city and town in the freakin' world isn't going to have a big-assed Magnemite generator.

So they'd have regular man-made generators.

Also, there's been no indication that it's a common practice for people to leave school at ten-years-old to train pokemon. I mean, there are schools in the games and anime, with ten-year-old kids in them and shit. Granted, they're school for pokemon.

Even so, I'm fairly certain there'd be a LOT more trainers to fight in the games and anime if every kid started at ten-years-old.

Also, while Renny is young, he certainly isn't ten. I don't think in the Umbral world kids start messing around at ten-years-old. Or at least, not in Honmyr where going outside could get you eaten.



EDIT: Also, Menarker's post seems to imply that Renny may be quitting PATCA. While we all know that's not going to happen, I can't help but imagine if it were true.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKK YEEEEEAAAAAHHHHH!

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Actually, I'm pretty sure there are airplanes in the pokemon world.

I'm pretty sure there are airplanes... since you know...

LOPUNNISH SHOT ONE DOWN IN OUR FIGHT WITH THE POKEGEDDON WITH ONE BULLET! ONE THAT WAS IMPROVISED AS AN ATTACK!


Also, Renny was pondering quitting eventually ever since his side-quest. The motivation was different and not as urgent but it was on his mind then, but it was there.


If we want another question about society and pokemon... Ask how trainers who don't have a stable job get money for living aside from mooching off their parents? Aside from the fact that trainers seem to GET money from defeating trainers. (In-game at least) So only the good trainers can support themselves long enough to travel far from their hometown, especially when it comes to feeding their pokemons and themselves and all that. At least they have free medicare via pokemon centers.

[Dracorion]

Lopunnish shot down an airship.

Totally different.

[Geminex]

In regards to Drac's thing:

Well, see, the fact that they eventually managed to develop high-tech doesn't mean that they aren't still being held back by pokemon. I'm guessing a lot of the stuff they have was developed before pokeballs came into use. And like I said, if they're already on a fairly high technological level, imagine what they'd be at without the detrimental influence of pokemon.

And yeah, fighting types can't lift as much as cranes. But they're perfect for "personal" lifting, the sort of stuff you'd need equipment like forklifts for. Or exosuits. The existence of fighting-type pokemon greatly slows the development of personal, strength-amplifying, everyday exosuits. There can be no greater crime.

Water pokemon for personal transport is probably screwing over the advancement of fast, personal naval travel. There's a ton of stuff that can be done with hydrodynamics to make boats really fucking fast, but it takes a while to develop. If people are preferring to hop on pokemon, there's no need for a passenger boat that travels fast (cause pokemon will travel faster, to begin with), and, as such, you're never gonna be developing ships that go just a hair under the speed of sound, cause the prerequisites just aren't there.

Generators... fair enough, pokemon aren't that useful in that area, so they're not holding humanity back too badly. But still, no magnezone would mean better generators in general. Not to mention that pokemon everywhere else means that there really isn't very much of a knowlege base, or engineers, or manufacturing techniques, or materials. If you want generators, you're gonna have to take care of all of that yourself.

More simply, it's pretty much like a tech tree in a strategy game. You need to research basic stuff to get the more advanced stuff. And you need the advanced stuff to get the uber-advanced stuff. And so on.

Pokemon offer free replacements to pretty much all of the basic techs, and quite a few of the advanced ones as well. Free replacements, in that you don't have to research the originals. But if you don't research the originals, you don't have the prerequisites for the advanced tech. And you don't even know that the advanced stuff exists, so why should you research the basic shit? You've got what you need after all. Right. RIGHT?

The only ones who'll try to get the normal tech are the ones who, for some reason, dislike pokemon. The ones who're irrational, and don't use the free replacements that everyone else does.
The Ones... The Ones that are like Impact. The biased, bigoted ones. The ones with irrational hatred, who take the hard path just because they hate the easy path for some reason.
In a stagnating, decadent pokemon world, it won't be the trainers who bring progress. Won't be the Jennys who advance society. Won't be the Joys who heal the world.
It'll be the Impacts. The ones who took the hard way...
That turned out to have been the only right way all along.
They are the Heroes, my friends. They are the champions of humanity, the ones who will pioneer the mysteries of the world, the universe, of nature. They are the Bringers of Light to society's Darkness.
And they are shunned. They are hated for their hatred. They die far, far too often.
But they persevere. And they survive. They succeed. They save the world, save humanity a thousand times over, throughout the decades, the centuries.
They are the Heroes.
And I think we owe them some acknowledgment.
They saved our pokemon world as it burnt them like witches for it.
And I think to truly honor that, we should consciously realize. That they succeeded. That we owe them. That They were right.
And that we should ALL try to be like Impact.
And if you refuse, then...
Well...
Then that's the question, isn't it? Which ones are the true Heroes? And which... are the Villains?

...

There that's my bullshit quota for the day!
I might actually have Impact use that speech sometime, slightly modified.

Edit:
Menarker, why'd Renny quit PATCA? Your post made some hints, of course. You gonna reveal any more?

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Well, see, the fact that they eventually managed to develop high-tech doesn't mean that they aren't still being held back by pokemon. I'm guessing a lot of the stuff they have was developed before pokeballs came into use. And like I said, if they're already on a fairly high technological level, imagine what they'd be at without the detrimental influence of pokemon.

Actually, AB said pokeballs were used in some shape or form sixteen-hundred years ago.

But I know what you're going to say now.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And yeah, fighting types can't lift as much as cranes. But they're perfect for "personal" lifting, the sort of stuff you'd need equipment like forklifts for. Or exosuits. The existence of fighting-type pokemon greatly slows the development of personal, strength-amplifying, everyday exosuits. There can be no greater crime.

I'm sorry, have you looked at the RPDAs?

Sure, they're a relatively new invention. BUT, even if pokemon weren't around people wouldn't have built RPDAs just so they could make a building.

Fact is, they would've made exosuits for military use first, then adapted them to everyday use. And the Umbral world, pokemon or no pokemon, isn't quite advanced enough for widespread use of exosuits.

And if they were, it would just be that whole "unbridled scientific advancement" I talked about before. And even if you say that Impact wouldn't let that happen, the fact is that it would happen before Ray Green was even born. And he wouldn't be able to stop it after it's already in use.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Water pokemon for personal transport is probably screwing over the advancement of fast, personal naval travel. There's a ton of stuff that can be done with hydrodynamics to make boats really fucking fast, but it takes a while to develop. If people are preferring to hop on pokemon, there's no need for a passenger boat that travels fast (cause pokemon will travel faster, to begin with), and, as such, you're never gonna be developing ships that go just a hair under the speed of sound, cause the prerequisites just aren't there.

Actually, I'm fairly certain most water pokemon that can be used for sea travel (the ones big enough to carry a human) can't travel faster than a cruise ship.

So there'd still be need for ships that go fast.

Also, it'd be slightly inhumane to subject a pokemon to a long-assed trip across open sea without any land to be seen.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Generators... fair enough, pokemon aren't that useful in that area, so they're not holding humanity back too badly. But still, no magnezone would mean better generators in general. Not to mention that pokemon everywhere else means that there really isn't very much of a knowlege base, or engineers, or manufacturing techniques, or materials. If you want generators, you're gonna have to take care of all of that yourself.

That's...

NO!

People would use Magnezone generators just until they could build better generators!

I know we like to discuss this like pokemon aren't sentient being, just, like AB said, alien technology we can abuse.

But the fact is no society is going to use pokemon like that.

Originally Posted by Geminex

More simply, it's pretty much like a tech tree in a strategy game. You need to research basic stuff to get the more advanced stuff. And you need the advanced stuff to get the uber-advanced stuff. And so on.

Pokemon offer free replacements to pretty much all of the basic techs, and quite a few of the advanced ones as well. Free replacements, in that you don't have to research the originals. But if you don't research the originals, you don't have the prerequisites for the advanced tech. And you don't even know that the advanced stuff exists, so why should you research the basic shit? You've got what you need after all. Right. RIGHT?

Actually, I see pokemon as being just barely below basic tech, or matching basic tech in some cases.

After all, there's no water pokemon (aside from Wailord I guess) that can carry two hundred people across the sea.

And because pokemon can only take you so far, you're still going to need to research the basic tech. And you'd do so at the same time that you're using pokemon, because it'd be stupid to start only after pokemon have outlived their usefulness.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Edit:
Menarker, why'd Renny quit PATCA? Your post made some hints, of course. You gonna reveal any more?

He's not quitting PATCA. Just considering it.

We're not that lucky, dude.