Pokemon Umbral Theatre 9: Ode to Gardevoir...Yes, Again.

Geminex · 09-23-2010, 02:34 PM

I... really don't think so. Like, that just doesn't seem reasonable.

2x rage generation is unnecessary. I don't want it, part of playing Impact this way is gonna lay in having to use my rage very, very carefully.

So are the stats. I mean, 15 to everything is nice, and certainly powerful, but it doesn't fit in with Impact's role!
And no, don't accuse me of min-maxing, cause that's not what this is. I'm trying to specialize. And hell, specialization is encouraged. Min-maxing would be my swearing off attacks and RPDAs altogether, in favor of more tactions, for instance. It would be customizing his stats so that speed and attack are minimal, putting all that into special attack, and then tying taction generation to special attack. Both were ideas I had, but I rejected them as bullshit. What I'm doing now is specializing. And trying to get me to take the stats boosts or rage generation to the demerit of my other skills, that's like trying to force Renny to make his next sigtech an insta-kill, and make his love tech deal direct damage. Just doesn't make sense.

But back to the skills...
I'm going to assume you're bartering here. Like, you're aware that the offer you made is ludicrously low, and now you're waiting for me to make one that's ludicrously high. That's how they do it in China. Though it's a waste of time, you usually just make a final offer and stick to that until they rend their hair in frustration. I'm gonna do that.

Also, just to mix it up, I'm doing it from the bottom upwards. Just because I need to make this interesting somehow. Also, the sane stuff is mostly down there and I like the bits where you're sane and not a complete blathering maniac.

Quote:

Signature Break:
Cost: 2 Tactions
Effect: Impact mentally assaults the target's aura, disrupting the target and preventing them from focusing enough to bring their strongest abilities to bear. One Sig-tech, Sync-tech, love-tech or Co-op technique (or anything else of that nature) cannot be used until the end of next turn (effect counts as a debuff).
Conditions: Can be used 1 time per turn at most

Cost of 1, twice per turn.

Quote:

Formation shift:
Cost: 3 Tactions
Effect: Impact coordinates rapid maneuvers to modify either an allied formation, or force the enemy to modify theirs. Select one member of a formation somewhere on the battlefield and replace this member somewhere else within the same formation.
Conditions: None.

Cost of 2. Usable three times per turn. Again, not versatile or useful otherwise.

Quote:

Fire at will:
Cost: 2 Tactions to activate, up to 6 optional Tactions
Effect: Impact helps coordinate the team's Destroyer to unleash a rain of destruction upon their hapless foes. For every two optional Tactions payed, the destroyer gains 100 aditional rage, for this turn only. Rage generated by this technique can raise the destroyer's gague above maximum.
Conditions: 6 optional tactions (working out to 300 rage max), can be used only every other turn

Eh. This was actually my greatest worry. So fine, 2 tactions to active.

Quote:

Ability drain
Cost: 2 Tactions
Effect: Select one enemy ability. This ability is nullified for one turn.
Conditions: 2 times per turn at most

If it were permanent? Yes. Fine. But it isn't. It's a 1-turn technique, it's not worth more than a single Taction. And make that 3 times per turn.

Quote:

Despecialize:
Cost: 4 Tactions
Effect: Select 1 enemy specialist. This specialist loses all 'priveleges' and counts as an ordinary unit for 3 turns. For the first turn only, this removes any protective effects on this specialist.
Conditions: Use once per turn only.
Example: Enemy medic is pissing us off. Use despecialize to take away his ability to use items.
Shock Troopers can only use one pokemon when despecialized, Snipers are attackable, Engineers cannot construct. And so on.

Very well. I can live with this.

Quote:

"Haunting"
Cost: 4 tactions initially, 2 per turn afterwards
Effect: Impact pierces the target's mental defenses, to strike directly at its aura and mind. Instead of just attacking, however, he does something more subtle. He leaves a fragment of his mind in the foe's, then withdraws. This fragment disrupts the foe, haunts them, causes them to become confused for two turns, and utterly exhausted thereafter. It cannot be dispelled. When the foe in question faints or dies, Impact partakes in its agony and rage, gaining a quarter of what the foe had left. The fragment then jumps to a random adjacent foe, to do the same to it, unless Impact recalls it, at the cost of another 4 tactions.
Conditions: Can use once per turn at most, and three times per battle. For every fragment of Impact's mind in circulation, he loses 2 tactions.

Ok, that's three in a row. I explained to you above, very reasonably and understandingly, that the practical effects of this technique could be much more easily achieved with the move Confuse Ray, and at a far lower cost. I really don't see your problem. The whole 'jumps from foe to foe' aspect is more than cancelled out by the fact that it's a constant drain on his tactions, and the fact that it generates rage makes up for the fact that it's a lot more expensive than it should be. So no, this thing is fine with an initial cost of 4, and an ongoing cost of 1 taction, screw the rage cost.

Quote:

Massive feedback:
Cost: 25 rage to activate, 2 tactions per attack
Effect: Impact gathers his strength and responds to every enemy attack with a massive wave of Aura-shock. The enemies take no damage, but they're so shaken that the attack or weapon they last used is now disabled.
Conditions: Once every two turns only.

Once again, how is this useful? Disable isn't that great! Not to mention the rage cost. This was also fine the way it was and I don't intend to budge. If it turns out to be OP, we can nerf it later. But until then, I think this is good the way it is.

Quote:

Superanalysis
Cost: 40 rage to activate, 4 Tactions per target
Effect: Impact rapidly analyzes the condition and vulnerabilities of various foes and feeds that info to his allies. For the duration of next turn, all affected foes become extremely vulnerable to secondary attack effects such as status effects, debuffs, stat reductions, flinch, etc... Attack with these effects are 2 times as likely to successfully inflict them. If a target is immune to an effect, it becomes normally vulnerable under the effect of this ability. Foes also gain an increased vulnerability to critical hits (equivalent to a 2-stage boost to all attacks), and suffer -2 stages to defense and special defense.
Coniditions: 2 targets max, once every two turns only

This is fucking ridiculous. I mean seriously, are you even trying? Weaken the defense of two enemies, for one turn, at that cost? You flinch 6 enemies for less, and you can spread that between two characters!
No. And fuck you for suggesting it. It was fine the way it was. In return for a full turn's Taction and quite a lot of rage, comparatively, Impact can make the enemy team (or 6 members of it, anyway) way more vulnerable to allied attacks for one turn. I'll even drop the bit with the crits, if you're really desparate. But that is it.

Quote:

Weatherman:
Cost: 4 tactions per change
Effect: Impact channels power through the RPDA to change the weather. He can remove and add different weather effects at will.

No. 3 at most, and that's really pushing it. It's just not effective otherwise! I won't be changing the weather if I can do dozens of other things. Especially if each change, each effect removed and added costs that much. Seriously, it'll take him a turn to just clear up hail, rain and sandstorm, and another to add the ones he wants. 3 at most, and if you accept that, then I'm going to expect quite a few concessions from you above.

Quote:

Dust Stream:
Cost: 5 tactions:
Effect: Impact eliminates FOW on the enemy side by 30% and increases FOW on the allied side by as much.

Again, don't quite like it. But ok. In China, I'd be maintaing the 35%, because this is small change and one of us is gonna give in eventually, but ok. I'll give in in order to soften the stuff that's coming up.

Quote:

Doom Howl:
Cost: 4 Tactions
Effect: Deals no direct morale damage. However, enemies become subtly, but powerfully unsettled by the unearthly sounds of this device, and become far more (x1.5 times) vulnerable to negative morale effects for three turns.

... I'm willing to play-test this one. See how it does. 1.5 doesn't seem too fantastic, but ok, I pay 4 tactions. I can deal. 3 turns will make, like, 30 morale, on average? So I'd be paying 4 tactions to do 15 morale damage...
Like I said, I'll try it. But if our enemies start losing morale less quickly, I'm gonna want to buff it again.

____
All-in-all, I don't like it. I think your attempts to nerf Impact are unreasonable.
If you agree to the above, we forget any 'failure percentage'. Stuff works unless foes are immune to it.
Also, I yet have to create something for that final level. In your guide, you seem to have filled that, but yeah. Nope. I'll fill that one myself, thanks very much. Probably with another taction and a more powerful TA (cause y'know I haven't actually used my uber yet). Suggestions?

Dracorion · 09-23-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Signature Break:
Cost: 2 Tactions
Effect: Impact mentally assaults the target's aura, disrupting the target and preventing them from focusing enough to bring their strongest abilities to bear. One Sig-tech, Sync-tech, love-tech or Co-op technique (or anything else of that nature) cannot be used until the end of next turn (effect counts as a debuff).
Conditions: Can be used 1 time per turn at most

Cost of 1, twice per turn.

Menarker's suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Formation shift:
Cost: 3 Tactions
Effect: Impact coordinates rapid maneuvers to modify either an allied formation, or force the enemy to modify theirs. Select one member of a formation somewhere on the battlefield and replace this member somewhere else within the same formation.
Conditions: None.

Cost of 2. Usable three times per turn. Again, not versatile or useful otherwise.

I'm reserving judgment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Fire at will:
Cost: 2 Tactions to activate, up to 6 optional Tactions
Effect: Impact helps coordinate the team's Destroyer to unleash a rain of destruction upon their hapless foes. For every two optional Tactions payed, the destroyer gains 100 aditional rage, for this turn only. Rage generated by this technique can raise the destroyer's gague above maximum.
Conditions: 6 optional tactions (working out to 300 rage max), can be used only every other turn

Eh. This was actually my greatest worry. So fine, 2 tactions to active.

Hey, it's a buff. The way you had it it would've cost 3 Tactions for a 100 Rage.

What I meant was, 2 Tactions buys you the first 100 Rage. No need to pay 1 Taction first.

Then again, I don't really know what I was thinking when I came up with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Ability drain
Cost: 2 Tactions
Effect: Select one enemy ability. This ability is nullified for one turn.
Conditions: 2 times per turn at most

If it were permanent? Yes. Fine. But it isn't. It's a 1-turn technique, it's not worth more than a single Taction. And make that 3 times per turn.

My worry about this is that foes like Pokemercs are, unlike trainer pokemon, actually worthwhile. This might be kicking them in the balls too much.

I mean, look back at the last time we fought Pokemercs. There were one or two with some troublesome abilities like Sturdy and Volt Absorb, and we used Worry Seed to eliminate those.

And that was fine.

Also, Pokegeddon. What with being Pokesapiens and all, despite all their other augmentations, they probably have abilities. Big badass abilities. And while Ability Drain would certainly be useful for them, I'm worried it's too much. Yeah, for Pokegeddon.

I'm so iffy about this TA that I'm worrying on Pokegeddon's behalf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Despecialize:
Cost: 4 Tactions
Effect: Select 1 enemy specialist. This specialist loses all 'priveleges' and counts as an ordinary unit for 3 turns. For the first turn only, this removes any protective effects on this specialist.
Conditions: Use once per turn only.
Example: Enemy medic is pissing us off. Use despecialize to take away his ability to use items.
Shock Troopers can only use one pokemon when despecialized, Snipers are attackable, Engineers cannot construct. And so on.

Very well. I can live with this.

Menarker's suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

"Haunting"
Cost: 4 tactions initially, 2 per turn afterwards
Effect: Impact pierces the target's mental defenses, to strike directly at its aura and mind. Instead of just attacking, however, he does something more subtle. He leaves a fragment of his mind in the foe's, then withdraws. This fragment disrupts the foe, haunts them, causes them to become confused for two turns, and utterly exhausted thereafter. It cannot be dispelled. When the foe in question faints or dies, Impact partakes in its agony and rage, gaining a quarter of what the foe had left. The fragment then jumps to a random adjacent foe, to do the same to it, unless Impact recalls it, at the cost of another 4 tactions.
Conditions: Can use once per turn at most, and three times per battle. For every fragment of Impact's mind in circulation, he loses 2 tactions.

Ok, that's three in a row. I explained to you above, very reasonably and understandingly, that the practical effects of this technique could be much more easily achieved with the move Confuse Ray, and at a far lower cost. I really don't see your problem. The whole 'jumps from foe to foe' aspect is more than cancelled out by the fact that it's a constant drain on his tactions, and the fact that it generates rage makes up for the fact that it's a lot more expensive than it should be. So no, this thing is fine with an initial cost of 4, and an ongoing cost of 1 taction, screw the rage cost.

Confuse Ray doesn't do that shit.

First of all, Confuse Ray's effects run out, and they're not undispellable. When this thing's confusion effect runs out? The target gets Exhaustion instead.

And one Taction per? That's bullshit. At most you'd spend 3 Tactions on it. You'd still have seven left to keep fucking over the enemies on top of them already being afflicted with undispellable Exhaustion that jumps around.

Keep the goddamn Rage cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Massive feedback:
Cost: 25 rage to activate, 2 tactions per attack
Effect: Impact gathers his strength and responds to every enemy attack with a massive wave of Aura-shock. The enemies take no damage, but they're so shaken that the attack or weapon they last used is now disabled.
Conditions: Once every two turns only.

Once again, how is this useful? Disable isn't that great! Not to mention the rage cost. This was also fine the way it was and I don't intend to budge. If it turns out to be OP, we can nerf it later. But until then, I think this is good the way it is.

Disable is pretty great, actually, when you can use it for a paltry cost. Couple it with Menarker's Scapegoat move, and Serene Blessing for Impact, at 1 Taction cost? Shit, you could wreck ten different enemies in one turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Superanalysis
Cost: 40 rage to activate, 4 Tactions per target
Effect: Impact rapidly analyzes the condition and vulnerabilities of various foes and feeds that info to his allies. For the duration of next turn, all affected foes become extremely vulnerable to secondary attack effects such as status effects, debuffs, stat reductions, flinch, etc... Attack with these effects are 2 times as likely to successfully inflict them. If a target is immune to an effect, it becomes normally vulnerable under the effect of this ability. Foes also gain an increased vulnerability to critical hits (equivalent to a 2-stage boost to all attacks), and suffer -2 stages to defense and special defense.
Coniditions: 2 targets max, once every two turns only

This is fucking ridiculous. I mean seriously, are you even trying? Weaken the defense of two enemies, for one turn, at that cost? You flinch 6 enemies for less, and you can spread that between two characters!
No. And fuck you for suggesting it. It was fine the way it was. In return for a full turn's Taction and quite a lot of rage, comparatively, Impact can make the enemy team (or 6 members of it, anyway) way more vulnerable to allied attacks for one turn. I'll even drop the bit with the crits, if you're really desparate. But that is it.

2 Tactions per target, drop the bit with the crits. I get to reserve judgment for later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Quote:

Weatherman:
Cost: 4 tactions per change
Effect: Impact channels power through the RPDA to change the weather. He can remove and add different weather effects at will.

No. 3 at most, and that's really pushing it. It's just not effective otherwise! I won't be changing the weather if I can do dozens of other things. Especially if each change, each effect removed and added costs that much. Seriously, it'll take him a turn to just clear up hail, rain and sandstorm, and another to add the ones he wants. 3 at most, and if you accept that, then I'm going to expect quite a few concessions from you above.

Okay, this one was my bad. I meant for it to be 4 Tactions for you to change up the weather to anything you like, regardless of how many changes you're making.

But I guess that really does piss all over Matt's tech. Better do it your way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

____
All-in-all, I don't like it. I think your attempts to nerf Impact are unreasonable.
If you agree to the above, we forget any 'failure percentage'. Stuff works unless foes are immune to it.
Also, I yet have to create something for that final level. In your guide, you seem to have filled that, but yeah. Nope. I'll fill that one myself, thanks very much. Probably with another taction and a more powerful TA (cause y'know I haven't actually used my uber yet). Suggestions?

Y'know, some of us could consider your whole upgrade sheet to be one big uber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

In fact, I'd like to THANK YOU for showing reasonableness and working with me to balance my character, utterly unlike a DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL NOT TWO POSTS AWAY.

Obligatory derogatory comment about your mother.

Hey, I tried man. No one ever said I was good at balancing. Shit.

Besides, I probably would've caved around this point if you hadn't gotten all pissy about it. But I said I'd come up with some suggestions.

Anyway, I'm sorry I got so bogged down by your bullshit that I couldn't do it properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Huh. Gimme a scenario, and a level. I'll tell you how I'd respond.

Well, I'd take a shot at this but I've completely lost faith in myself at this point.

No, that was sarcasm. Seriously, don't even think about saying what I know you would have said.

Also, fine, you wanna make separate versions of these for PVP? Sure.

Bard, I was joking when I called dibs on Burkmont and all of them.

In Faynoc's case, it's my sidequest and there's a character development reason for Pierce to get to kill him, so I asked for it.

In Burkmont's case, well, I don't think we should quite call dibs on these things yet. What if it fits Menarker's character better to kill the man that impregnated his Snorlax, causing Snorlax to give birth to Renny?