Transhumanism vs Bioconservatism.

[TDK]

Originally Posted by Magus

2352

A lot of experts (Ray Kurzweil, for instance) predict the singularity to happen within our lifetime. :I

There's always the thing about scientists overestimating how soon advancements will come, but that figure (2050, I believe, was the estimate) is just based on the current rate of technological growth, so its pretty viable at least in a general sense.

[Magus]

The singularity for what level of advancement, though. A few choice organs? Limbs? Your brain in a cyborg body with artificial skin? What?

[Pip Boy]

"The Singularity" is the even where man creates something more intelligent than man. Which, itself, with its increased intelligence, will be able to create something more intelligent than that. The concept is that if, with any given level of intelligence, we can create something slightly smarter, or increase our own intelligence, we should be able to use that greater intelligence to develop an intelligence even greater than that. Hypothetically, this will cause a rapid chance in society as the human race either ascend to nearly omnipotent understandings of science and math, or become the slaves of robots we created that have nearly omnipotent understandings of science and math.

[Amake]

I think if you're a committed transhumanist, your ultimate goal will have to be to undo humanity. We're here to make something better than ourselves, and succeeding in that will mean that we're no longer needed. And that's not a bad thing. Any parents here knows what I'm talking about, I'm sure.

[Aerozord]

know what I'm curious about, what effects this will have on the movement I personally have the most vested interest in, Neuro-diversity.

For one those that aren't neurologically typical are already seen as people with genetic illness. As is our society would probably attempt a genetic purge of such "defects"

The scarier thing is potential advantages. People that are autistic or with asperger's syndrome are adapt at analysis, information gathering, and computer programming. The quickly aquired outsider label and subjective morality that most have also makes them more readily willing to accept these alterations and potentially on how to abuse them. World will be very different when a tech geek is the most dangerous person in the school.

Reason I said this was scary is it reminds me of that one episode of Ghost in the Shell, a place where people have (I think it was called) Closed Shell Syndrome, a thinly veiled autism analogue, and the kids were basically made to work creating security and hacking tools that were simply beyond what normal people could make. Shame they abused their inherent compulsive personality so they worked to the point their bodies and minds began to break down.

Even without such a formalized institute both effects are possible. As I said this is inherent personality trait and anyone thats forgotten to eat or sleep while playing WoW knows that being lost in a digital world can be very addictive.

I know what I said seems incoherent, but its just several thoughts of potential occurances. For the most part I dont like the possibilities

[Amake]

We already have data processing companies specializing in catching Aspies and putting us to our most effective use. I imagine a lot of my peers dream of turning into robots, and filling their worlds with numbers rather than hard to understand people. Now, just because we think we want to stay away from people doesn't mean that's what we need, so it's pretty disturbing to have ones shallowest desires catered to this way.

But yeah, in the future you could probably neuroengineer at least young children with neuropsychiatric disorders and completely manipulate their personality to be acceptable. Or turn normal kids into troubled geniuses for that matter. We should probably have an age limit for that kind of manipulation when it becomes an issue. Like, forty.

[Aerozord]

true, the irony is aspies are likely to invent alot of these technologies, or atleast have a part in it. Though it is possible opposite will come into play. Which is good for us but bad for them. The main NT advantage is socialization and non-verbal communication, which will lose its importance as face-to-face socializing gives way to electronic. If instead darwinism hits. Those more adept at using the technologies will thrive more, perhaps to the point neurologically typical people undergo conditioning to be rewired like aspies. Eventually NTs will vanish. Though in that situation many will say its mute since humanity as is will vanish too. But it would mean that aspie logic and reasoning will be that of early transhumans if it takes place

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Invisible Queen

Maybe, but we're still part of the natural world. In fact nothing can exist that is not part of the natural world. I don't see any point in limiting the definition of "nature" to exclude humanity, or parts of it.

As to how we have managed for several thousand years with a limited sense of vision, we also managed for several million years without glasses. You say it's a defect to not be able to see thirty feet in front of you, but it's okay to fix that. What makes it less okay to fix your ability to see the entire Internet at will? The fact that stone age man didn't need Internet at all?

I think we have a conflict of definitions here. The only way we're any part of the natural world anymore is biologically. We have transcended nature and made it our bitch, at least in the Western world. And it's not even a recent development. We've been breeding animals for centuries and it's already been decades since we started messing with the genetic code of our food directly.

To be blunt, collapse modern technology and we'll talk about our place in nature. Because we aren't exactly apex predators when we're running around naked. Or else read that book by that guy who managed to get inducted into a wolf pack. Haven't read it myself, but it might give some insight.



I mean, really, maybe it's just more apparent here in America, but even a look at our farming system is a big fuck you to all things natural. You want cows, you have a cow farm. You grow corn (or maize, for non-Americans), you grow nothing but corn. Where it used to be you'd take the cow manure and throw it on the fields and rotate crops, these days American farms have every product potentially miles away from each other with zero exchange, so the cows are knee-deep in their own manure, everyone grows corn, corn, corn, and when they deplete the soil every year they just dump petroleum-based fertilizer on it and spray the plants with petroleum-based pesticides. And that's not even accounting for us having dicked around with their very DNA to make them toxic to all the bugs that would eat them.

The whole thing is like that one Ren and Stimpie episode where they're in the house of the future and the solution to door-to-door salesmen is to cover them in gunk to summon a giant mutant ant and then fry the ant with a giant magnifying glass.

Originally Posted by Aerozord

true, the irony is aspies are likely to invent alot of these technologies, or atleast have a part in it. Though it is possible opposite will come into play. Which is good for us but bad for them. The main NT advantage is socialization and non-verbal communication, which will lose its importance as face-to-face socializing gives way to electronic. If instead darwinism hits. Those more adept at using the technologies will thrive more, perhaps to the point neurologically typical people undergo conditioning to be rewired like aspies. Eventually NTs will vanish. Though in that situation many will say its mute since humanity as is will vanish too. But it would mean that aspie logic and reasoning will be that of early transhumans if it takes place

This quite frankly terrifies me, because there is no one universal logic for people with Asperger's. A lot of them, for instance, are really great with animals. Then you get ones like my cousin who can talk about politics and God at three years old. If we're banking on them all making the exact same kind of sense, we're fucked seven ways to Tuesday.

[Yrcrazypa]

We are apex predators running around naked. All we have to do is look for a sharp stick and stab things with it. Our knowledge of how to use tools is our tooth and nail. Why would we need them when we can make them? We don't need thick skin because we can take something elses' thick skin. Plenty of other animals use tools, or the environment to their advantage, why can't we?

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Yrcrazypa

We are apex predators running around naked. All we have to do is look for a sharp stick and stab things with it. Our knowledge of how to use tools is our tooth and nail. Why would we need them when we can make them? We don't need thick skin because we can take something elses' thick skin. Plenty of other animals use tools, or the environment to their advantage, why can't we?

THANK you, whenever people make the "Take away all our cars and buildings and we'd die" argument it drives me nuts. It's stupid, we survived a long-ass time without them, and we can do so again, would EVERYBODY survive? hell no, does every tiger survive in the wild? also hell, also no.