Operation Rainfall - Page 5

Magus · 07-23-2011, 07:53 PM

Hmm, for some reason I dislike the idea of the Mother 4 game almost instinctually when I didn't have a problem with the idea of a Crimson Echoes game or the King's Quest: Silver Lining game. I dunno if it's the fact that they are sticking a number in there, that the Mother games are so inextricably bound up with Shigesato Itoi's personal ideas and creativity, or simply the fact that it has only been like three years since I personally played it, and only five since it was created How is that "sitting" on an idea? I think that's a pretty poor argument for making one yourself, that Nintendo hasn't made a Mother game in five years. They seem to really be jumping the gun. So Itoi said he isn't going to make another game--that's quite possibly not true. Can we at least wait a while before getting antsy and trying to do it ourselves, internet? If it is even a good idea (probably not).

On a different note, though, regarding that cartoon, as for the "Prequel to Treasure Island", I see absolutely no problem with writing books involving historical classics of literature and playing around with them. Why is it okay to write dozens of books involving the Bram Stoker version of Dracula but not Long John Silvers? I'm confused. I know it's a minor point from that pretty long comic but there's a big difference between adding to a classic novel that has been used and abused by everyone and choosing out a mid-1900's novel whose author is still alive. Does that artist hate Alan Moore? I think "classic" characters are wide open, not only legally but pretty much ethically. Otherwise we'd have to get pissed about The Three Musketeers being adapted as a steampunk fantasy movie or Bill Murray being adapted as a modern day Scrooge.

Catcher in the Rye was written only a little while ago on the scale of things, plus Salinger still legally owns the copyright, and is clearly alive as well. People will have to wait many years before they can play around with that story and characters.

EDIT: Also, if Kanye West did want to "finish" the work of a Greek philosopher two thousand years dead, why is that intrinsically "horrible", anyway? It would only be horrible if it sucked, because it would be a poor tribute to the original philosopher. Same thing with that Treasure Island prequel.

BTW I have the feeling that cartoonist is unaware how deeply entrenched fanfiction is in the literary world. Basically every classic novel has been "ripped off" (I prefer to say "expanded upon" or "commented upon" or "deconstructed", but anyway), not only by authors but by movie studios, etc. The only difference is that the internet fanfiction writers are 1. by and large not very good writers (which is also true of all the writers in the world, it is just that the internet makes it so easy to simply put up what you have written for everyone to see), and 2. they pick more recent stories that are still legally protected.

Jagos · 07-23-2011, 11:20 PM

... Salinger is dead. Before he died, he banned that Catcher in the Rye sequel.

Krylo · 07-23-2011, 11:40 PM

You guys are missing the best part of that comic.

The part where 8-Easy Bits guy talks about how other people don't have any writing ability.

Also: Lucas is a bad example not because he took a lot of inspiration and stylistic choices from a lot of other sci-fi (this is common practice), but because he is literally the worst person to be working on his own IP.

As evidence I ask that you contrast the prequel trilogy with any of the games or the original trilogy (which has gotten progressively worse as Lucas has altered scenes which the actor's ad-libbed with his own 'vision). Or the new clone wars cartoon vs the one done by Tartakovsky with minimal input from George.

Also because books as those described in the comic actually exist and with Lucas's seal of approval.

Basically, Lucas is a poster boy for what good can happen when a creative vision is allowed to be toyed with and altered by people other than its original creator. The Star Wars franchise, and Lucas's name, have only gotten stronger by allowing it to be worked on outside of the original creator.

Edit: That said, On Original Topic: Nintendo is shooting themselves in the foot. They have, fairly or not, a reputation since the Wii came out for not appreciating their more 'hardcore' audience. Which has driven that audience to other consoles (this is after the gamecube had the same issue). This wouldn't be a problem except that the WiiU seems to be trying to appeal to that very same market, while right before release they are giving that market the finger by refusing to bend for consumer groups from that market. Like Nonsie said, it would be spending money now to make money later. By not doing so, they're hurting their next generation console. It's going to be hard to get that market back after two straight generations of Nintendo Consoles not having enough games/enough games of a quality that said market appreciates to validate their purchase. And some good will might go toward salvaging that. Nintendo's decided not to show any good will though.

And on mini-topic of Mother 4: Couldn't care less if it gets shut down. I've nothing against fan games, and don't care one whit what they name it. I also don't care about 'respect' for franchise. However, calling it Mother 4 is really like thumbing your nose at Nintendo's legal team and ASKING them to shut you down. It's a stupid move. So I'm not going to feel any pity for them if it gets shut down, but nor will I be happy about it. Just... eh.

Bells · 07-23-2011, 11:48 PM

I just wanted to point out my 2 cents that any game made from the point of "because the author/owner won't do it" is likely to suck more in my view.

It may SEEM a minor thing, but it's really not. I would rather see something "inspired by" or "a re-imagination of" at least shows a premise of creativity instead of spite.

BitVyper · 07-24-2011, 01:48 AM

I'd be more upset if I didn't know Xenoblade will just be another in the long line of Xeno games that abuse me for wanting to play them.

Fifthfiend · 07-25-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meister

I too agree that Homer should have been beaten to death with his own scrolls.

Aerozord · 07-25-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bells

I just wanted to point out my 2 cents that any game made from the point of "because the author/owner won't do it" is likely to suck more in my view.

plus it should probably also be very telling that if the creator himself thinks no more good stories can come of this IP, then you should probably leave it alone.

Continuing something the creator abandoned is how we got Dragonball GT

Fifthfiend · 07-25-2011, 09:08 PM

What on earth would it mean for Western civilization if the works of Plato were no longer protected by copyright law?!

EDIT: My bad, per the Stevenson example you do recognize that intellectual property isn't actually like an inherent law of nature, you just seem to be arguing that it should retroactively be made so.

Azisien · 07-25-2011, 09:12 PM

I don't see how a work is positively or negatively affected by new authorship in a way that surpasses the general mediocrity of most art in general.

I consider The Wheel of Time an excellent series in the fantasy genre, but the author died abruptly, and we would never see an end to the series if it wasn't for a talented author and huge fan of the series taking up the reins.

Aerozord · 07-25-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

What on earth would it mean for Western civilization if the works of Plato were no longer protected by copyright law?!

well they aren't. so, technically nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azisien

I don't see how a work is positively or negatively affected by new authorship in a way that surpasses the general mediocrity of most art in general.

I consider The Wheel of Time an excellent series in the fantasy genre, but the author died abruptly, and we would never see an end to the series if it wasn't for a talented author and huge fan of the series taking up the reins.

doesn't automatically make the work bad, its just not the same. Whatever the original authors vision, whatever his intent, sad fact of the matter is when he died it was lost forever. But thats not the point, the point is you are a fan. This is your idea, dont imply that it is the same work. Its not, its your work which you are tacking onto someone elses. Morality of that depends on situation. If author was cool with it, more power to you. But stealing it because you think you can do better is not cool

07-23-2011, 07:53 PM	#41
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Hmm, for some reason I dislike the idea of the Mother 4 game almost instinctually when I didn't have a problem with the idea of a Crimson Echoes game or the King's Quest: Silver Lining game. I dunno if it's the fact that they are sticking a number in there, that the Mother games are so inextricably bound up with Shigesato Itoi's personal ideas and creativity, or simply the fact that it has only been like three years since I personally played it, and only five since it was created How is that "sitting" on an idea? I think that's a pretty poor argument for making one yourself, that Nintendo hasn't made a Mother game in five years. They seem to really be jumping the gun. So Itoi said he isn't going to make another game--that's quite possibly not true. Can we at least wait a while before getting antsy and trying to do it ourselves, internet? If it is even a good idea (probably not). On a different note, though, regarding that cartoon, as for the "Prequel to Treasure Island", I see absolutely no problem with writing books involving historical classics of literature and playing around with them. Why is it okay to write dozens of books involving the Bram Stoker version of Dracula but not Long John Silvers? I'm confused. I know it's a minor point from that pretty long comic but there's a big difference between adding to a classic novel that has been used and abused by everyone and choosing out a mid-1900's novel whose author is still alive. Does that artist hate Alan Moore? I think "classic" characters are wide open, not only legally but pretty much ethically. Otherwise we'd have to get pissed about The Three Musketeers being adapted as a steampunk fantasy movie or Bill Murray being adapted as a modern day Scrooge. Catcher in the Rye was written only a little while ago on the scale of things, plus Salinger still legally owns the copyright, and is clearly alive as well. People will have to wait many years before they can play around with that story and characters. EDIT: Also, if Kanye West did want to "finish" the work of a Greek philosopher two thousand years dead, why is that intrinsically "horrible", anyway? It would only be horrible if it sucked, because it would be a poor tribute to the original philosopher. Same thing with that Treasure Island prequel. BTW I have the feeling that cartoonist is unaware how deeply entrenched fanfiction is in the literary world. Basically every classic novel has been "ripped off" (I prefer to say "expanded upon" or "commented upon" or "deconstructed", but anyway), not only by authors but by movie studios, etc. The only difference is that the internet fanfiction writers are 1. by and large not very good writers (which is also true of all the writers in the world, it is just that the internet makes it so easy to simply put up what you have written for everyone to see), and 2. they pick more recent stories that are still legally protected. __________________ The Valiant Review Last edited by Magus; 07-23-2011 at 08:09 PM.

07-23-2011, 11:20 PM	#42
Jagos FRONT KICK OF DOOM! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Howdy pardner... Posts: 6,399	... Salinger is dead. Before he died, he banned that Catcher in the Rye sequel. __________________ Copyright musings World ramblings Scifi stories

07-23-2011, 11:40 PM	#43
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	You guys are missing the best part of that comic. The part where 8-Easy Bits guy talks about how other people don't have any writing ability. Also: Lucas is a bad example not because he took a lot of inspiration and stylistic choices from a lot of other sci-fi (this is common practice), but because he is literally the worst person to be working on his own IP. As evidence I ask that you contrast the prequel trilogy with any of the games or the original trilogy (which has gotten progressively worse as Lucas has altered scenes which the actor's ad-libbed with his own 'vision). Or the new clone wars cartoon vs the one done by Tartakovsky with minimal input from George. Also because books as those described in the comic actually exist and with Lucas's seal of approval. Basically, Lucas is a poster boy for what good can happen when a creative vision is allowed to be toyed with and altered by people other than its original creator. The Star Wars franchise, and Lucas's name, have only gotten stronger by allowing it to be worked on outside of the original creator. Edit: That said, On Original Topic: Nintendo is shooting themselves in the foot. They have, fairly or not, a reputation since the Wii came out for not appreciating their more 'hardcore' audience. Which has driven that audience to other consoles (this is after the gamecube had the same issue). This wouldn't be a problem except that the WiiU seems to be trying to appeal to that very same market, while right before release they are giving that market the finger by refusing to bend for consumer groups from that market. Like Nonsie said, it would be spending money now to make money later. By not doing so, they're hurting their next generation console. It's going to be hard to get that market back after two straight generations of Nintendo Consoles not having enough games/enough games of a quality that said market appreciates to validate their purchase. And some good will might go toward salvaging that. Nintendo's decided not to show any good will though. And on mini-topic of Mother 4: Couldn't care less if it gets shut down. I've nothing against fan games, and don't care one whit what they name it. I also don't care about 'respect' for franchise. However, calling it Mother 4 is really like thumbing your nose at Nintendo's legal team and ASKING them to shut you down. It's a stupid move. So I'm not going to feel any pity for them if it gets shut down, but nor will I be happy about it. Just... eh. __________________ I am very tired. Last edited by Krylo; 07-23-2011 at 11:49 PM.

07-23-2011, 11:48 PM	#44
Bells That's so PC of you Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In a Server-sided Dimension where time is meaningless Posts: 10,490	I just wanted to point out my 2 cents that any game made from the point of "because the author/owner won't do it" is likely to suck more in my view. It may SEEM a minor thing, but it's really not. I would rather see something "inspired by" or "a re-imagination of" at least shows a premise of creativity instead of spite. __________________ *BELLS STORE : Clothes! You wear* them! Free US Shipping Subscription System? WTF?! Zazzle Black!**

07-24-2011, 01:48 AM	#45
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	I'd be more upset if I didn't know Xenoblade will just be another in the long line of Xeno games that abuse me for wanting to play them. __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here.

07-25-2011, 09:08 PM	#48
Fifthfiend for all seasons Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,409	What on earth would it mean for Western civilization if the works of Plato were no longer protected by copyright law?! EDIT: My bad, per the Stevenson example you do recognize that intellectual property isn't actually like an inherent law of nature, you just seem to be arguing that it should retroactively be made so. __________________ check out my buttspresso Last edited by Fifthfiend; 07-25-2011 at 09:14 PM.

07-25-2011, 09:12 PM	#49
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	I don't see how a work is positively or negatively affected by new authorship in a way that surpasses the general mediocrity of most art in general. I consider The Wheel of Time an excellent series in the fantasy genre, but the author died abruptly, and we would never see an end to the series if it wasn't for a talented author and huge fan of the series taking up the reins.