Diablo 3 to have always online DRM, cash shop, no mods at all, and kills puppies. - Page 2

Jagos · 08-01-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azisien

2) Uh, of course Blizzard isn't supporting bots or mods. First is obvious, second is semantics. Most cooperative/competitive online game developers don't support rampant cheating. Bots have completely, utterly, without possibility of repair ruined Diablo 2. My stance for my sequel would be militant too. As for mods, they're taking about player-side mods I think, not a modding community. You know, map hacks, illegal macros, whatever else people can come up with to make them innately better at the game without a measure of skill. I mean, they probably aren't supporting a game editor like they do for StarCraft 2, and that is a shame, but hardly horrifying news.

The bots is understandable. The mods is reprehensible in a day and age where their best work is made by a fan. While not horrifying for you, it just seems to hit the Blizzard modding community in the nuts that they can't make their own maps or offshoot games, having to buy Starcraft II just for those tools.

Quote:

3) This is an interesting experiment, if anything. First of all, pretty sure it's been twisted by the media from "may buy with real currency" to "must buy with real currency." The Blizzard explanation sounds like people that WANT to pay real money to twink their characters CAN, but you could always just earn your gear like most people will. For me, I could see myself buying that last piece of Tal Rasha set, instead of running Baal 200 more times and PRAYING that 0.01% item drops.

Really, this is Blizzard accepting the inevitable. They are not really "letting us" buy gear with real money. The Diablo 3 community would set that up with or without Blizzard's consent. This seems similar to legalizing marijuana, instead of trying to combat its sale. It's gonna happen, the question is, how hard are the people in charge going to try and senselessly fight it? I'm curious to see how this pans out.

It probably depends on the fee charged in house. I can see it not really being effective in stopping the heavy users from using other illicit sources. Maybe they have a reputation to uphold or something else. It's a neat concept, granted, but I dunno if Blizzard is really going to do well in this fashion.

Azisien · 08-01-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

There are actually two seperate auction houses, one for real money and one for ingame gold only. BOth of them are selling only things that are found int he game by players who then put them up for sale. You don't have to use either auction house, you can use all the random gold you have lying around to buy shit or if you just want to kill stuff without having to grind out the best loot you can spend real monies. It pretty solidly a non-issue.
And like even if they didn't support ongame selling of items it going to happen anyway, this just allows a much safer and more regulated trading service for everyone to use without getting screwed by dodgey traders.

These arguments are pretty much the same for legalising lots of drugs/prostitution etc- going to happen anyway, you'll just waste money and time fighting it and you won't succeed, so allow it, clean it up and regulate it.

Yeah I knew this. I support the real money auction house being added. Who said I didn't? I even referenced legalization like you did!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagos

The bots is understandable. The mods is reprehensible in a day and age where their best work is made by a fan. While not horrifying for you, it just seems to hit the Blizzard modding community in the nuts that they can't make their own maps or offshoot games, having to buy Starcraft II just for those tools.

But, they can make their own maps or offshoot games, it probably just won't be on Battle.net, or specifically supported by Blizzard on Battle.net. Diablo 2 had zero modding functionality built right into the game. It didn't come with a map editor, or anything else. It's always a shame to see any PC game lacking maximum modder potential, but that's all it is really, a shame.

Ramary · 08-01-2011, 11:21 AM

Ooohhhhhhhh boy I started a good thread.

Keep going, don't mind me, just keep going. I am waiting to see if someone else realizes what are the REAL bad things about all this.

Loyal · 08-01-2011, 12:22 PM

Y'know what's awesome, is when someone trying to make a point just comes out and actually makes their point.

Bells · 08-01-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramary

Ooohhhhhhhh boy I started a good thread.

Keep going, don't mind me, just keep going. I am waiting to see if someone else realizes what are the REAL bad things about all this.

Do we get a cookie if we figure it out...?

The "only online" thing bothers me. I don't see it as necessary and i see no justification for it... it's not a effective DRM and it hurts consumers.

As for Mods... well, i suppose they want people playing Vanilla D3. Afterall, that makes it easier to sell DLC. If i recall correctly, hardly anybody played D2 (offline or online) without some mods, like expanding your item capacity, altering drop rates and such...

As fro the auction House, for one, it ties right in there with the No Mod stuff. Secondly, i'm pretty sure Blizzard will get a cut out of anything sold. So it's a virtual in-game ebay, pretty much.

I have no problem with people selling stuff for real cash in game for other players, but we'll have to see how the in game economy takes it. I guess we all are pretty aware of how those things can get screwed up over time...

Nikose Tyris · 08-01-2011, 12:32 PM

To be fair, Loyal, he's still kinda newish. He's not got the established pattern of that dickish answer yet. There's still time to save him from himself. D:

Ramary, what are the reasons this is bad [despite the one I named]?

Ramary · 08-01-2011, 01:06 PM

Bah fine.

RULE 1 OF ANY MICRO TRANSACTION: Never ever under any circumstances allow and support the buying of power.

This AH thing allows to players to buy AND sell power, which is a big no no. It almost always causes a gap between people of better real life wealth and the poor(and Irish) and it splits the community along lines of resentment and hate. Hell that stuff even happens with games that don't let you buy power. TF2 community went batshit over the store, even though weapons have always been a side grade sort of deal, not flat upgrades like gear in a RPG would be. It also throws a massive wrench into game balance. This would be bad even if the game was completely pve, but from what I understand is that there is also a PvP arena thing. I don't hate cash shops, the above mentioned TF2 is fine, and League of Legends does it better then any other game I seen, and these 2 are some of my favorite mutiplayer games right now. But part of the reason they are good is that nether of them sell PURE POWER.

As for the AH, I doubt the "intended" effect of stomping the black market will do anything. If you sell an item for real money you need...

1. You need a listing fee
2. You need to give Blizzard their cut

That is 2 fees right there, but then...

3. You CAN ether turn that money into credit for the other blizzard cash shops, or you can actually get real money BUT you have to pay ANOTHER fee to a "3rd party" that handles the money

So yeah, that is 3 fees if you actually want your money. So you could deal with the fees, or keep using the black market and get more money and less hassle. Plus the prices will be cheaper on the black market cause the sellers on the normal AH will jack up the price of Captain Jerkypants' Dread Grog Hat so they can make decent money while paying the fees. In the end, it is just ActiBlizz trying to make more money.

As for the other 2...

Always online DRM: This is bad, bad, bad, baaaadddddddddd. There is no reason to defend this, at all. It does not stop pirates, and it only makes it more of a pain in the ass for the actual consumer to play.

No Mods: This one is a little bit more defensible. Diablo 2 does have massive botting problems...but this is like trying to get rid of a rat by blowing up the house. It is also just an excuse to pump out DLC. Since DLC got popular, Publisher has been fighting with modders since they can pretty much give the same content for free. I mean 5 years ago, charging 15 dollars for 5 maps was complete and utter madness since you could get user made maps for free. Now it is common place, because it is pretty easy to do compared to other tasks in gamedev and for the player, not buying the map pack means you "do not have the full experience" and you are pretty much kicked out of games if you don't have the packs. Without mods, you have no other options but take that 15 dollar 5 map pack.

Something else I did not mention though, there are no skill points at all. There are no player made builds at all eather. It is all auto leveling. With only 5 classes.

Amake · 08-01-2011, 01:13 PM

Aaalmost there.

Also, about the "no mods" thing, I'm pretty sure when they say mods they mean mods and not hacks. Something like Median would a) require an offline mode and b) maybe make people pick up the game ten years from now. Neither of which flows well with Actiblizzion's vision of maximized short term profits.

Kim · 08-01-2011, 01:24 PM

With no offline mode, I have no interest in Diablo 3. I hear Torchlight 2 has offline. I'll just play Torchlight 2.

Jagos · 08-01-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramary

Something else I did not mention though, there are no skill points at all. There are no player made builds at all eather. It is all auto leveling. With only 5 classes.

Torchlight 2, here I come.

Non, you damn ninja!

08-01-2011, 01:13 PM	#18
Amake Keeper of the new Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: A place without judgment Posts: 4,506	Aaalmost there. Also, about the "no mods" thing, I'm pretty sure when they say mods they mean mods and not hacks. Something like Median would a) require an offline mode and b) maybe make people pick up the game ten years from now. Neither of which flows well with Actiblizzion's vision of maximized short term profits. __________________ Hope insistent, trust implicit, love inherent, life immersed Last edited by Amake; 08-01-2011 at 01:36 PM.

08-01-2011, 01:24 PM	#19
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	With no offline mode, I have no interest in Diablo 3. I hear Torchlight 2 has offline. I'll just play Torchlight 2. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

08-01-2011, 11:21 AM	#13
Ramary HE OPENS THE DOOR TO HIS DARK PAST Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Some craphole Posts: 770	Ooohhhhhhhh boy I started a good thread. Keep going, don't mind me, just keep going. I am waiting to see if someone else realizes what are the REAL bad things about all this.

08-01-2011, 01:06 PM	#17
Ramary HE OPENS THE DOOR TO HIS DARK PAST Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Some craphole Posts: 770	Bah fine. RULE 1 OF ANY MICRO TRANSACTION: Never ever under any circumstances allow and support the buying of power. This AH thing allows to players to buy AND sell power, which is a big no no. It almost always causes a gap between people of better real life wealth and the poor(and Irish) and it splits the community along lines of resentment and hate. Hell that stuff even happens with games that don't let you buy power. TF2 community went batshit over the store, even though weapons have always been a side grade sort of deal, not flat upgrades like gear in a RPG would be. It also throws a massive wrench into game balance. This would be bad even if the game was completely pve, but from what I understand is that there is also a PvP arena thing. I don't hate cash shops, the above mentioned TF2 is fine, and League of Legends does it better then any other game I seen, and these 2 are some of my favorite mutiplayer games right now. But part of the reason they are good is that nether of them sell PURE POWER. As for the AH, I doubt the "intended" effect of stomping the black market will do anything. If you sell an item for real money you need... 1. You need a listing fee 2. You need to give Blizzard their cut That is 2 fees right there, but then... 3. You CAN ether turn that money into credit for the other blizzard cash shops, or you can actually get real money BUT you have to pay ANOTHER fee to a "3rd party" that handles the money So yeah, that is 3 fees if you actually want your money. So you could deal with the fees, or keep using the black market and get more money and less hassle. Plus the prices will be cheaper on the black market cause the sellers on the normal AH will jack up the price of Captain Jerkypants' Dread Grog Hat so they can make decent money while paying the fees. In the end, it is just ActiBlizz trying to make more money. As for the other 2... Always online DRM: This is bad, bad, bad, baaaadddddddddd. There is no reason to defend this, at all. It does not stop pirates, and it only makes it more of a pain in the ass for the actual consumer to play. No Mods: This one is a little bit more defensible. Diablo 2 does have massive botting problems...but this is like trying to get rid of a rat by blowing up the house. It is also just an excuse to pump out DLC. Since DLC got popular, Publisher has been fighting with modders since they can pretty much give the same content for free. I mean 5 years ago, charging 15 dollars for 5 maps was complete and utter madness since you could get user made maps for free. Now it is common place, because it is pretty easy to do compared to other tasks in gamedev and for the player, not buying the map pack means you "do not have the full experience" and you are pretty much kicked out of games if you don't have the packs. Without mods, you have no other options but take that 15 dollar 5 map pack. Something else I did not mention though, there are no skill points at all. There are no player made builds at all eather. It is all auto leveling. With only 5 classes.