Pokemon Umbral Theatre 32: Discuss the UmbralGuide

[Astral Harmony]

Time for some of the best pictures in the photobucket!

[Dracorion]

First off, every time I saw "Pokemons" on the document it made me want to scream.

- Slayers have access to the NPC Daphne for equipment switching during battle. One trade is completed at each Order Phase.

Can you elaborate on this? Does this mean Slayers can switch one piece of equipment immediately in one Order Phase, or does it mean they have to wait until the next Order Phase to get the equipment they asked for?

Also, you should probably add the Enforcer stuff on how they gain 100 Rage and cure all status effects if they're left in the Rearguard for three turns. Unless you got rid of that.

That's all I can think of right now.

[Menarker]

Ok, this is my first look through reading it. Some initial thoughts here...

1: Regarding the Order Phase, this really makes active Accessories risky to use because they require rage to activate in the first place yet there is no sure chance the character will be able to use some of the bonuses attack fast enough or live long enough to use it. Accessories like Melting Beam (Enemy Def Reduction to user) and Stim Up (Extra Attack) suffers from the rules listed here.
You'll probably have to make some changes to accessories anyhow (maybe some new ones too) but just throwing that out there.

2: We'll probably have to rebalance our character's current techniques. Not so much an issue with the rules as something we have to do as a side effect since you decided the cost of the techniques using the old rules and now it's quite likely that due to the speed stat factor of Union/Co-op Techs, some techniques may not work like intended or may be overcosted for what it is capable of doing now.

3: Synchronization techniques are showing as costing 40 rage but then saying it's free for 2 uses and 50 rage for later. I assume an error in the proof-reading process.

4: Regarding Union Techs where the initiator loses the rest of their actions, what if the initator is a Shock Trooper with pokemon waiting to attack or was granted additional actions as a result of some bonus like a slayer using the Extra Attack accessory? This is a pretty big nerf if it remains as is.

5: Rogue Pokemon need to be elaborated. Do they get to act (as according to their speed stat) before the enemy attempts to attack them even the turn they are summoned?

6: Pokebrid action should have to be altered for some elements. Normal (does nothing) and Grass (Drain 50% of damage dealt although Pokebrid actions don't do damage) comes to mind off the top of my head.
This especially needs to be done for Dante, since two of his forms start out as normal type.

7: Regarding Sync Techs being reduced to 70% when not in Paradigm Shift, some techniques don't have measurable components that can be reduced to 70ish% but is more like an on/off switch. (More likely to occur for support moves) Reconsider? Clarify?

8: Engineer ability reads as
- Engineers can deconstruct a previously existing construct and replace it with another construct all in the same turn and regains 25 Rage.

Should probably be edited to the following:
- Engineers can deconstruct a previously existing construct regaining 25 rage and replace it with another construct all in the same turn if they willing/able.

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Also, you should probably add the Enforcer stuff on how they gain 100 Rage and cure all status effects if they're left in the Rearguard for three turns. Unless you got rid of that.

AB did got rid of that. This was part of a big argument in your sidequest during that Moera fight.


And Drac, you can just use the advanced Find function and "replace" all instances of pokemons in the guide with pokemon.


Anyhow, I'll look it over again later. Still sleepy.

[Dracorion]

Totally forgot the Enforcer stuff.

Also, it's not the world Pokemons in itself. It's that you guys keep using it. You're pissing me off.

Anyway, to attempt to address some of Menarker's points:

1) I'm not quite sure what you mean. With the Speed-based turn order, I'm assuming that the Slayer wouldn't spend Rage on those accessories until their turn comes up. If the Slayer is defeated before their turn, then they don't spend Rage.

The only worry becomes if the target was switched out or killed before the Slayer's turn came. But that's a constant worry in the games. I'm sure we can put up with it.

4) I'm not sure. Union Techs are pretty powerful. Having the person who uses them lose their actions could help balance that. Alternately, maybe it's just the user and not their Pokemon that loses their actions.

As for Action Amp, I think that's supposed to only affect one action. That is, if you're attacking, you activate Action Amp and the attack counts for two (well, four, since the accessory also doubles the effect, which I'm assuming means damage in the case of a regular attack. Or maybe it means status effects, since these are Slayers we're taking about).

Anyway. If you were using a Rage Rocket, then using Action Amp would mean recovering 50 RP. (I'd call this overpowered, except Slayers aren't going to have a full inventory of Rage Rockets. Still, I'm not sure.)

5) AB said that he's not going to decide enemy strategies based on what what strategy we've come up with. Basically, he's going to have the enemies attack based solely on our formation. What that means is that rogue Pokemon shouldn't normally be targetted by enemies on the turn they go rogue.

So I don't think they'll take action that turn either.

Although, AB, how are we handling action overflow with this system? I mean, if a target dies, and there were more attacks targetted at them, are those attacks wasted or redirected?

About RPDAs and Core Points. You know how there's a standard upgrade at increases the RPDA duration to five turns? At Overblade Level 4, I think. That should probably be modified to increase Core Points as well (by 50? 75? 100?), since it'd be rather silly if Overblades spent two out of five turns doing nothing because they ran out of Core Points.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

1) I'm not quite sure what you mean. With the Speed-based turn order, I'm assuming that the Slayer wouldn't spend Rage on those accessories until their turn comes up. If the Slayer is defeated before their turn, then they don't spend Rage.

The issue is that Accessories are all done in the Order phase (including the part where they pay rage.) Then afterwards is the action phase where the actions of the characters are done and where the meat of the effects of many accessories actually come into action. There the user may be knocked out before their turn comes when they would have benefited from the accessories that they paid for in advance in the phase.

A simple example would be Melting Beam accessory.
Order Phase: Pay 25 rage to recharge and activate Melting Beam. An enemy with 200 Defense suddenly only has 100. (The accessory also explictively states that it the defense loss only works for the user. Everyone else attacking it hits the 200 defense)
Action Phase: Other enemies attack the user before he/she get to attack. KOed. Accessory was paid for in advance and yet fails to have an effect.


An idea would be to have recharging an accessory be part of the order phase, but make using the accessory a free action that is part of the action phase. (Thus the user can immediately use the accessory right before their attack, which assumes they are still able to take action by the time their turn comes up.) That way, the logistics is dealt with in an easy fashion but the issue is avoided.

As for Action Amp, I think that's supposed to only affect one action. That is, if you're attacking, you activate Action Amp and the attack counts for two (well, four, since the accessory also doubles the effect, which I'm assuming means damage in the case of a regular attack. Or maybe it means status effects, since these are Slayers we're taking about).

I was under the impression that Action Amp doesn't affect a given action but gives an extra new action entirely of its own for the express purpose of a slayer attack (no extra item use or pokemon attack or such). So it doesn't increase the effect of anything, but basically allows the slayer character to have another attack as if they got an extra turn, which is useful in case you want to hit the same target twice, or hit two different targets or switch between weapons.

Basically, it's kinda like getting an extra turn of attack (if the slayer wasn't already a trainer.)

Slayer: 1 Slayer Attack becomes 2 Slayer attacks. (The default slayer attack can be used for something else like item use or technique.)
Slayer/Trainer: 1 Slayer and 1 pokemon attack becomes 2 Slayer and 1 pokemon attack.
Shock Trooper: 1 Slayer and 2 pokemon attack becomes 2 slayer and 2 pokemon attack.

Although, AB, how are we handling action overflow with this system? I mean, if a target dies, and there were more attacks targetted at them, are those attacks wasted or redirected?

Personally, I would imagine that action overflow would be redirected to the best viable target (best being best type advantage or enemy with lowest hitpoints). I can't imagine that our characters in-character would HERP DERP all their actions away just because someone stole their kill or got a lucky crit.

[Dracorion]

Fair enough. Still, the accessory issue, and pretty much all similar Rage issues, can be easily fixed by making sure the Rage isn't actually spent until the Action Phase.

As for Action Amp, this is what I have for it's description:

- Action Amp: Activation type. Doubles the number and effects of the action for that turn. In other words, activate this accessory, then do two Actions at double their normal effect.

Of course, it goes on to mention Actions, too. Probably need some clarification from AB.

Regardless, I think it might be slightly too powerful if it were any two actions.

[Menarker]

An idea would be to have recharging an accessory be part of the order phase, but make using the accessory a free action that is part of the action phase. (Thus the user can immediately use the accessory right before their attack, which assumes they are still able to take action by the time their turn comes up.) That way, the logistics is dealt with in an easy fashion but the issue is avoided.

Not certain if you saw this yet (since I have been going back and forth with edits), but it'd deal with this particular rage issue while keeping it close to AB's system. *Shrug*




As for the Action Amp, we seem to have gotten mixed up. I thought you were talking about:

- Stamina Boost: Allows the Slayer to attack twice in a round. Use it for you absolutely, positively have to fuck something up.


I didn't think of it, but Action Amp as it is worded now would be BROKEN on Renny later on, since his upgrades allows him an extra trainer action in addition to his first one or a pokebrid action. So at best/worst, Renny would have 4 actions whenever he uses it. His first 2 from his default use and his extra trainer action and 2 more after the Amp. Considering his pokebrid actions include a -1 DEF debuff or inflicting confusion on target, I'd think Action Amp might need a little editing.

[Dracorion]

Are we still using those old accessories? I forget.

I thought Action Amp was replacing the old Stamina Boost.

Regardless, Stamina Boost clearly states attacks. Not actions. A Slayer would only use it if they were attacking with their regular action.

[Menarker]

We should probably clarify what each allows that the other doesn't.


In regards to old accessories AB removed a few, but he didn't remove them all. I compiled the ones that didn't get voted out by AB.

Now might be a good time to list all the accessories up to this point that haven't been removed and see which ones need modifying/removing.



- Stamina Boost: Allows the Slayer to attack twice in a round. Use it for you absolutely, positively have to fuck something up.
- Scentsation Coil: Can be used to heal from negative status. Otherwise, it's kind of pungent. (WORTHLESS due to Overpower)
- Adrenaline Surge: Increases all stats by one. Does not stack. Sorry.
- Spectral Eye: An amplified Confuse Ray. The Pokémon will always hurt itself. Not effective on Ghost types.
- Viper's Venom: A ring with a deployable needle that is jabbed directly into the Pokémon and inflicts it with Toxic. (Pretty worthless. Might be more viable if it started the toxic a few turns, like it started on turn 3 or 4 of Toxic. Unlikely though)
- Decoy Device: Creates a perfect holographic representation of you which will trick enemies. You can still attack in the same round. Lasts for one round.
- Physical Barrier: Creates a kinetic barrier around yourself that greatly reduces physical damage. This works for three rounds.
- Magical Barrier: Creates a mysterious barrier around yourself that greatly reduces special damage. This works for three rounds.
- Maximum Output: Like Explosion for Slayers. The Slayer injects this purple and black prototype drug directly into his neck and then goes fuckin' ballistic. Two adjacent enemy targets take huge damage, the Slayer is defeated by the crippling exhaustion after he burns himself out. The Slayer DOES NOT gain 50/100 Rage Points (in other words, no Vengeful Rage 'cause you killed yo'self) from being revived after using this! I won't have Impact kersploding himself every other fucking turn. God knows that happened enough with Pierce's Metagross.
- Immunity Boost: Prevents all negative status effects for three turns. Does not cure them if they're already there. A little late in the application process if you're already coughing up your liver.
- Berserker Source: - A "Rage Bank" of sorts. Here's how it works. The accessory already comes with 100/100 Rage Points. When you "use" it, it fills your Rage to maximum and keeps the excess to itself (if you have 70/100 and use it, it gives you 30 and keeps the remaining 70 it has leftover). You can transfer Rage to it for use later. In other words, you'd be very lethal if you saved up 100/100 Rage Points in it and then had 100/100 Rage Points yourself. (This one I might be interested in, with some modification. I'd suggest it doesn't come with extra rage but it increases your maximum rage gauge by 100 and you keep the unused rage from the finished battle on top of the 50 you start with each battle. It drains out if it gets switched out for another accessory though.)
- Dire Power: Always Active type. 10% crit chance. (I think this item is supposed to increase Crit by 1 stage not by a certain percent.)
- Stabilizer: Activation type. Removes all stat debuffs by one level.
- Begrudger: Activation type. 100% counter on any enemy that attacks the user.
- Dust to Dust: Activation type. Defeats the unit that defeats the user. Doesn't work on certain enemies like bosses and mechanical foes.
- Dampener: Always Active type. Prevents all Pokemon from using Self Destruct and Explosion
- Environment Guard: Always Active type. Negates damage from Sandstorms, Snowstorms, and other weather effects that deal damage. There will be some custom weather. Moera's Psystorm is not one of them. Flying cars and hotdog stands are different than weather.
- Holy Ring: Always Active type. Restores 5% of MaxHP per turn.
- Holy Guard: Always Active type. Has a 50% chance of reducing any incoming attack by 50%.
- Portal Ring: Always Active type. Stores a weapon or armor in a small dimensional pocket. Slayer can switch out gear as their Action for that turn. Daphne won't always be available to change your loadout for you.
- Divine Blessing: Always Active type. Avoid the first attack that doesn't come from weather or a negative status or as the side effect of an Action.
- Melting Beam: Activation type. Halves the DEF of the target before you strike. DEF is only halved for your strike and not those of any other unit.
- Corruption Beam: Activation type. Halves the SDEF of the target before you strike. SDEF is only halved for your strike and not those of any other unit.

[Astral Harmony]

I can't do anything to address these issues right now, but I have copied them all to a notepad and will get on them during lunch (we get long lunches here which is helpful).