The Spy Among Us Mafia

[Geminex]

And our fallback can always be to lynch nikose. : D

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Why is everyone focused on the deathmiller claims and not the miller claims!

[Sifright]

because hawks death miller claim is the perfect cover for a mafia don to take? it's why i've voted to lynch him. Although killing the standard millers might be a good idea as well.

The problem is we have three people that the PO can't verify, The two standard millers and the death miller that claims when he dies it will show Mafia don. There have been plenty of games where the mafia dons power has been that he identifies as town.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Why would that be the perfect cover and not the stupidest cover.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok, so you all assume I'm the mafia don. So I ask you a simple question then; why in the hell would I bother making any claim at all, especially on the very first day?

Mafia dons generally have the power that, if investigated, they show as town, which is what happens if I'm investigated anyway. If I was the mafia don I would already show up as being town and wouldn't need to claim death miller, thus drawing attention to myself in the first place. I could have just sat back, let you all carry on, probably left you all to lynch Ryander or one of the other millers and avoided attention entirely, then if I got investigated I would show as town.

There would be far too much risk for a mafia don to go and make such a bold claim so early for no reason, drawing everyones attention for no reason when he could just sit back, let himself maybe get investigated and not risk the ire of every other player. For a faction that generally wants to keep its head down and go unnoticed it's literally the worst possible way to play.

The only thing a deathmiller claim would help a mafia do is mask his death, which is not something that really matters all that much, and I should know, having been killed off as mafia several times in other games, generally early on. Why would I care so much about what my death looks like in this game, when it's never mattered in any past game, to the point of drawing everyones attention when I needn't have bothered?

The only reason I would have claimed death miller is because I actually am one, and I claimed because I'm pretty damn certain Ryander is town too since his role is almost identical, between us both we've already got (at least for me) 2 confirmed townies, in a game of 14 players. On day 1. It was my hope that backing up Ryander would get town more confirmed townies, reveal to the town that this game is going to be full of misdirection and confusion (as befits a game about spies) and get peoples attention focused on the now reduced number of possible suspects. Clearly this did not happen.



As for the other millers, I'm also thinking maybe Kareshs miller claim may be genuine too, since it seems he revealed himself to show that there are in fact a lot more millers roles this game than normal, which I already know to be true. I'm still suspicious as all hell of BF though, and not because of his miller claim, more his blatant obfuscating "logic". I get the feeling he's being deliberately obtuse about stuff in order to get votes started. Missing Ns after Mafia, not realising town aligned means "wins when town does" and multiple dons just because a miller shows as one are some of the flimsiest and stupidest reasons to suspect someone ever.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Pretty much everything Hawk says. The whole deathmiller suspicion is based on fuck all and is stupid.

WHy aren't we lynching the millers who are trying to buy immunity from POs because that is a sketchy claim- deathmiller is not a particularly sketchy claim.

[Ecks]

Something else is going on here and I'm not liking it.

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

The whole deathmiller suspicion is based on fuck all and is stupid.

Why would one Death Miller claim to turn up Mafian Thug and one claim to turn up the Don? That in and of itself is suspicious because, as others have already said, it is the perfect way to mask your actual affiliation upon death and confuses the number of actual mafiates killed.

Ryan was killed at night. This means that a) he was telling the truth about being town and was killed by the mafia, b) he was murdered by the SK (who doesn't give a shit what his alignment is), or c) the Vigiliante got him, in which case we STILL don't know his alignment as the vig doesn't get to learn his target's role beforehand (right? I'm not fucking up again here am I?). So we don't know if Ryan's claim was legit or not and thus I am still suspicious of both currently living Miller players.

At the moment both Karesh and Hawk make more sense to lynch than anyone else in the game at the moment. Because four of you are hiding out in the background and not posting I have no leads other than assuming you're scum just because of inactivity, hence my FoS. Karesh could be mafiate trying to hide from an investigation, and the only way to find out if his claim is legit or not is to lynch him. Hawk could be the Mafian Don hoping we'll take the apparent lack of info from a lynch on him as a reluctance to vote him, so he gets to stay in business offing the rest of us in our sleep.

Lynching either one of you will have concrete results, though, I'm certain of it. Karesh will come up Town or Mafian; If Hawk's death results in one less kill tonight, we've bagged our Don or at least the SK.

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

WHy aren't we lynching the millers who are trying to buy immunity from POs because that is a sketchy claim- deathmiller is not a particularly sketchy claim.

Hawk made a valid point about the Miller claims. But one turned up legit Town.

You were awfully quick to jump on Hawk's logic and deflect suspicion away from the Death Millers and onto the Millers here... You and Hawk seem quite a bit too chummy... and I don't like it.

I'm sticking with my vote for Karesh, but also FoS: Smarty and Hawk because I'm getting scummy vibes from both of you.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also as I sad lynching the deathmiller doesn't achieve us anything- it will show as mafia when he is dead but we don't know what that means and we are in the same place as we were at the start of day 1. If say we're down to a few people and we're still dying and we haven't found any mafia then lynch the deathmiller and see if the killings stop. Lynching them day 1 makes no sense.

[greed]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

Also as I sad lynching the deathmiller doesn't achieve us anything- it will show as mafia when he is dead but we don't know what that means and we are in the same place as we were at the start of day 1. If say we're down to a few people and we're still dying and we haven't found any mafia then lynch the deathmiller and see if the killings stop. Lynching them day 1 makes no sense.

I pretty much agree with all of this, it makes sense. I will add that two death millers seems a bit odd and that therefore Hawk's claim seems a bit suspicious to me but I'll hold off. Same deal with two regular millers. On the other hand the theme of the game lends itself to the role being important.

[Ryanderman]

I'm going to

Vote: greed

Because of this post:

Originally Posted by greed

I pretty much agree with all of this, it makes sense. I will add that two death millers seems a bit odd and that therefore Hawk's claim seems a bit suspicious to me but I'll hold off. Same deal with two regular millers. On the other hand the theme of the game lends itself to the role being important.

Which sounds exactly like a noncommittal, stay in the background at all costs attempt to cast doubt on the deathmiller claims, in the hope of creating an opportunity to lynch them later, and avoid building a town voting block.

I'm tempted to Vote for BahamutFlare instead, based on pretty much the same argument SMB is making, but the way he jumped on me, and his roleclaim, seem to be going a bit too far out on a limb for a mafian day 1. It doesn't fit in my mind.