HELP ME: I am actually enjoying FFXIII

[PyrosNine]

Yeah, Cloud was pretty broken from the get go, only most people had their player-protagonist blinders on....JUST AS FF7 PLANNED. FF6? The main character being amnesiac, with a dark and troubled past tied directly to the big omnicidal big bad? Pretty clear from the get go. FF7? Oh hey, my character's hearing voices....probably nothing important.

Cloud was pretty boss for a main regardless of his inevitable breakdown, and actually spent much of the game in an up-beat, go-get-em attitude- whenever he was doing something that wasn't Sephiroth or END OF THE WORLD related, you'll notice he'd drop the SOLDIER First Class facade and do some really goofy stuff, and while the player thinks "Oh, he's just gonna do this stuff because I made him", even Advent Children and Dirge make a point of showing that no, Cloud is a snarky goofball. He's not Mister Super-Positive like Zack was, but you can see that the two got along really well.

We're talking about the guy who told the Tutorial guys to shut up and let HIM tell them how the game works- and when he meets their ghosts and they ask him why he's using materia if materia is killing the planet...he gives a weak, "Uh...we need to use our materia to make them stop using materia..." and hastily tries to shove the question under the rug. Who, while the earth is under attack from Weapons, or Sephiroth is getting away by the second....goes and rides Chocobos from dawn to dusk at Golden Saucer. Who, when considering a 'date' for the Golden Saucer, is likely to pick Barret just to mess with him.

Cloud's just Emo in KH because he hasn't killed Sephiroth yet, who probably killed Zack, and anyone who kills KH Zack cannot be forgiven. He still snarks out Squall, who is the master of snark within his own game.

I haven't gotten a chance to play 13 yet (mainly because I don't own an Xbox/PS3) and I haven't beaten 5, 6, 8, and 9 yet, but the story of 13 actually hit me pretty hard, and it wasn't just because of the Leona Lewis Trailer. (My hands.....uhhooaah...no they will not let me go...)

In FFX, Just before the climax of the game, then and only then do you learn that Yuna's going to bite the big one at the end of her quest. And it's sad, and it's part of theme of the cycle of death, touching moment.

IN FFXIII, From the get go you learn that someone you love is going to suffer a fate worse than death at the whims of an all powerful creature, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it- and struggling against it only leads you down the exact same path. There is no hope, there is no divine agent sent to make everything better, nor any old wise man who shows up to tell you how to save your loved ones. There's nothing but futility and despair ahead of you, and an impossible task that will wreck you whether you accomplish it or not.

And you learn this all from the very beginning of the game!

In most games, you're just watching these happy go lucky characters suddenly get assaulted by a dark secret or truth popping up out of nowhere, they get emo, and then get better when the time calls for it. In 13, the truth pops up at the very beginning, and all there is to do is watch them SQUIRM.

And despite this teetering between the weakening resolve to continue and the growing despair, we see some really strong characterization and emotionally deep reactions. Characters crowning moments of awesome are not that they show up in the nick of time to hit Golbez with Meteor, but that they are capable of powerfully rising above the flood of emotional turmoil and do what they believe is right. Sugar and Rainbows indeed!

I don't know about 13-2's plot, sounds like a bunch of timey-wimey BS, but any FF with a -2 is usually just about the fanservice, so I can let it slide. Either way, 13 advanced the FF series by focusing on presenting a deep emotional story, just like 12 did the same with unparalleled customization and complex, layered political narrative.

As long as it's not just FF 1-12 in shiny new paint, and I can see the same amount of love and attention to detail that's in arguably every final fantasy game (except 14, although that's purely from a coding and game design standpoint, not a visual or sound one) I will find something to love in any and all Final Fantasies, and be more than willing to play them.

...When I get caught up.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by PyrosNine

As long as it's not just FF 1-12 in shiny new paint, and I can see the same amount of love and attention to detail that's in arguably every final fantasy game (except 14, although that's purely from a coding and game design standpoint, not a visual or sound one) I will find something to love in any and all Final Fantasies, and be more than willing to play them.

...When I get caught up.

Which is pretty much how I feel. I just really need to play nine, twelve, and thirteen.

I've also never even actually seen 14, just heard about how terrible an idea it was.

[Krylo]

Is some of that stuff in Dirge of Cerberus or something?

'Cause it's left pretty unclear in FF7 who the other experiment is, and is heavily implied that Zack was killed/bitch slapped by Sephiroth before Cloud stopped him. Also it's never shown that Cloud and Zack were BFFs. Further, when Cloud finds out that Sephiroth is mind fucking does he have a break down at almost giving the dude the black Materia? Does he freak out that every other Sephiroth clone has no free will and he's probably not much better?

Fuck no.

He straight up says "Yo all I got problems, don't let me have this shit. Now I'm going to go punch Sephiroth right in the goddamn face and keep on punching until he stops moving."

Also: Terra was emo as fuck with her "what is love?" schtick, and the whole "I CAN'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OH GOD I HAVE SUPER POWERS WHAT."

Locke more so with his dead girlfriend that he kept in his basement.

Celes actually tried to commit suicide.

And okay, yeah Sabin was pretty boss.

Cloud is, objectively, the least emo FF Protag.

. . .Other than Sabin (but Sabin as protag is actually a pretty weak argument, it's totally Terra for the first half and Celes for the second).

. . .Until Advent Children (and apparently other media) decided to rewrite him for whatever ridiculous reason.

[Ryong]

Crisis Core has Cloud just be a random country dude, just like Zack. Granted, I never finished it, but I can't remember him being emo there.

I liked Zidane who, upon being told what he actually is, has a breakdown and then 10 minutes later decides that he's chill forever.

[Dracorion]

Hey Kry?

That being said, yeah, there's not much in the original game to show Cloud and Zack being great friends.

However, everyone should just pretty much ignore all the FF7 EU on the basis of sucking, except maybe for Crisis Core.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Hey Kry?

I don't remember that scene in the original PS1 game. PC game was released over a year later.



Edit: Like 99% sure it wasn't in there, 'cause I don't remember Zack coming out first or anything like that. There's way too much to that scene that I don't remember for it to just be my memory.

Edit 2: Basically what I'm getting out of this is that Square has gone out of their way, starting about a year after the original game released, to make Cloud terrible compared to his original depiction.

[Krylo]

Ah found out what was going on.

It was an entirely optional scene that requires you to go back to the Shinra Mansion near the end of the game. Kinda like finding out about Lucrecia and what not with Vincent required you to jump through a bunch of hoops.

Fact remains that during the escape, however, Cloud was recovering from getting run through, picking up the sword and guy connected to it, WHILE IT IS IN HIM, and then shaking it vigorously to throw said guy and sword off a bridge, running to save his childhood friend, and carrying her to safety all before he passed out, while Zack is recovering from a bitch slap.

Makes sense Zack could move and Cloud couldn't.

Also, Zack only went through half of what Cloud did, having already been accepted into Soldier and thus already having the Mako infusions. Cloud needed both Mako infusions and Jenova cell injections. Zack only needed the injections.

[Dracorion]

Yeah, I'm not arguing that Cloud was a pussy. His only failing was not making it into SOLDIER in the first time, but other than that he did pretty well for himself.

If you want to argue that he accomplished very little throughout the events of the game, then we'll probably have to compare him to every other FF protagonists and see how they fared. The answer is, not well. In fact, I think it's Tidus and Vaan, the most hated two protagonists, that managed to fuck up the least.

And yeah, Cloud wasn't very emo in the original game, either. Like, I think most of his dialogue options were choices between being nice or being a dick. And even the dick ones weren't like with Squall, who would've just said "... whatever" and launch into an angsty inner monologue. Cloud at least uses more words and doesn't have inner monologues.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Yeah, I'm not arguing that Cloud was a pussy.

Yeah but Tactics basically was.

[Dracorion]

Okay, so it only took Square a year to start fucking up Cloud.