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Unread 06-30-2012, 01:18 AM   #11
Magus
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Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something.
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Tenpenny Tower annoyed me at the time, too, although in retrospect the fact there is no "good" solution IS kind of appealing. Although apparently there is a glitch on that one that lets you basically get the "good" solution-- kill Tenpenny after you get everyone to agree to let in the ghouls and after telling him everyone is all for it, but before telling Roy. Supposedly this will break the part where Roy murders all the humans after you leave. Of course, they may have fixed this in Game of the Year edition...I don't know if I'm going to play the game again with high Charisma/speech to check it out personally.

But then I played Into the Pitt and that did the same thing again with the totally morally gray outcomes and I was annoyed again.

Which is odd, really. Because morally gray outcomes are better than the stark white/black choices the game offered most of the time. Maybe I had gotten so used to the game only offering such contrasting choices/outcomes that that was why it annoyed me there was no completely, totally good outcome to these two quests.

Like an example of just pointlessly white/black quest outcomes: in Broken Steel you can turn the satellite missiles on the Citadel instead of the Enclave mobile platform. Turning it on the Citadel is just pointlessly evil, even more so than destroying Megaton (which has clear rewards in that you get 1000 caps, get to live in Tenpenny Tower, and so on), whereas destroying the Citadel is pointless, since if you are that evil you wouldn't have helped the Brotherhood in the first place or got inducted in (seriously, if you are still inducted into the Brotherhood at the end of the super evil path I'm taking in my second play through, the game is really poorly thought out), unless you can't get into the armory any other way. I haven't tried, so maybe that is the "reward" for annihilating the Citadel? There were also other choices to fire on which the game handwaves away as "wrong flight path coordinates". What if I thought that pesky purifier was the cause of all the problems in the world? And the thing had four payloads, too, the perfect amount. Why give the illusion of freedom? It was worse than their deus ex machina "you got kidnapped/knocked out" unavoidable plot points.

Oh, and something else annoying about Fallout 3: you can't kill children. And no, I don't really oppose that sort of self-censorship normally, but they built Little Lamplight totally around the concept of a society of children, and being unable to talk my way in (one of the few times speech failed in my whole play through--I even got President Eden to blow up the base), my super blindingly white Paladin character thought for a few moments about just shooting their way in...but you simply cannot draw your gun in the cave until after you get the gate open by doing the sheriff's quest. After that the normal "can't kill kids" physics are there, of course. But still. They should have avoided setting it up that way with their "can't kill kids" rules. At least put that sheriff behind some bullet-proof glass he can mock you from behind or something.

At least they fixed the ending so you can ask Fawkes to go into the irradiated room and he does, although it acted like this was some kind of moral failing on my part instead of just the intelligent thing to do since he is totally impervious to radiation. I'm presuming you can ask any of the other companions to do the same, though, so I guess they coded it in as "ask Paladin Cross to go into the radioactive room" which would indeed be cowardly, I guess.

I hear New Vegas fixed most of these problems with Fallout 3, though, so I'm looking forward to that.
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Last edited by Magus; 06-30-2012 at 01:35 AM.
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Unread 06-30-2012, 02:53 AM   #12
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I felt that a lot of the options available with the satellite missile thing were there for the narrative, not for the player to actually use. The important thing isn't that the player wants to throw a bunch of missiles at the Citadel, but to demonstrate that the Enclave could and would do so. If there is anything Fallout was good at, it was bombarding the player with VOLUMES of useless side infromation to help build a deep narrative, and I felt that this was one of the game's greatest strengths.
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Unread 06-30-2012, 10:31 PM   #13
Magus
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Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something.
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But you could bomb the Citadel, though. And narratively it is never justified that anyone would ever bother to do that, as you can never join the Enclave or what have you (something I hear they fixed in New Vegas, where all three of the main factions are joinable). So why not allow you to go psychotic on the other three non-choices? Anyway, it's not that important, Fallout 3 has plenty of good qualities to recommend it. But if people want to pick on the lack of choices they can, because it's a problem the creators created for themselves in the first place by designing the scenario that way.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 06:26 AM   #14
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I agree with Krylo, Obsidian did a way better job than Bethesda. NV blows Skyrim out of the park. And I like Skyrim, it was just crushingly disappointing to have so much less choice. Not just all the invincible people but the lack of choice in quests. The example that really pissed me off during the game was the conclusion to the Thieves Guild. You really should have had the option to tell Nocturnal to fuck herself find a new slave and then either allow you to go it alone, side with Mercer or maybe talk Nocturnal and her supporters on side but without selling your soul. Maybe an alternate quest where you do something for Nocturnal something of similar value, or just explain that you've already sold your soul to one of the other daedra or something. Also I know this isn't asking for too much as New Vegas had every major questline give this much choice or more.

Also the lack of reactivity just makes the stuff you do feel so meaningless. Like spoilers for the Civil War and the Dark Brotherhood if you complete the Civil War for the Stormcloaks then the country is under their control. But if you then do the end of the DB quests the Emperor rocks up like he owns the place and his guards are all over the place, what the fuck?

Basically I like some of the stuff Beth did, but god damn they really should have cribbed a lot more from Obsidian's New Vegas. Also level scaling still sucks balls.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 12:21 PM   #15
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well, it is quite telling that a new player in Skyrim can actually become a Werewolf "by accident" simply by committing himself to a certain questline, because, like every questline in Skyrim around the midpoint the game simply goes "well if you came this far OF COURSE it means you want to commit 100% all the way" even though there is always a crazy twist in the end you could easily miss and not know about like turning into a cannibal or a god damn werewolf.
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