Time Zone Discussion

BahamutFlare · 08-15-2012, 02:02 AM

So me and a friend are arguing over time zones. And basically I have 2 questions, does 24:00 exist?

Part 2 which is the main part, what exactly happens where the time zone is +/-12. I'm a big calc fan, so when I look at a graph of the displacement, I see a no slope. Because the displacement of time goes from +23 to 0. In this case, I think it'd make more sense graphically and maybe mathematically for time zones to go from 0 to 12 to 0. We don't really need + or minus. Just take the absolute value using GMT.

It seems that if you travel around the world, you magically travel back in time 23 hours when reaching that certain point. Time flows so I just don't understand why reaching that point doesn't change the day. Why +0 isn't +24 also. +24 makes it a new day thus making it +0 again. You travel around in one way, so in a way, you experienced more or less earth rotations, I'd think.

In GMT, how does +12/-12 work? Both are the same reference point, but are the the same time, same day? Anyway that 'wall' where it changes drastically is my main curiosity in how it works. Thank you all for the discussion.

A Zarkin' Frood · 08-15-2012, 02:48 AM

1. Does 24:00 exist? You could just as well ask if 23:60 exists. The answer is yes. Both are 0:00.

We start counting at 0 because that's the first hour of the day. 1 o clock is the second. 23 is the 24th. The day only has 24 hours, though. So the most intuitive thing is to go back to 0 after 23, so we don't have the first hour of a day to be noted as 24:00. Some may do it, but I don't see why aside from confusing people.

2. Let's assume 12:00 in GMT. Let's also assume DST doesn't exist. That means in -12 the day starts and in +12 (they cover the same region, the difference is the date, see: International Date Line which says what I'm saying with better words, but also more of them.) the day is over. Pass that mark and the date will change. It doesn't really work any different than time "differences" in different time zones. You are not "traveling through time magically" You are entering a different time zone. One that just happens to be a day "earlier" on the calendar.

Bells · 08-15-2012, 03:52 AM

To be more "florish" about it... the space between 00:00 and 01:00 is what makes 1 hour, not the "1 hour" it self. So, in reality, the "24th hour" would be the space between 23:00 and 24:00, but when 24:00 arrives it automatically cycles back, going to 00:00

CABAL49 · 08-15-2012, 11:47 PM

Yes it exists. Can we talk about how DST is silly now?

Krylo · 08-16-2012, 12:10 AM

DST is super dumb and I hate it.

Nique · 08-16-2012, 12:49 PM

I would love it if we had DST but only if it was fall back all the time never EVER spring forward.

Professor Smarmiarty · 08-16-2012, 01:07 PM

I don't understand whats so hard, +12 and -12 exist, when you go over them you lose/gain a day. American Samoa recentely swapped date lines so they had the same day as Australia (where they do most of their business now) rather than America (where they ued to)

BahamutFlare · 08-16-2012, 01:31 PM

My friend said that when you pass them, you don't lose a day. That it remains the same day. Time zones are just markers in which you add X hours to the actual time. In which I wonder, when you get to +23 hours. Why can't the next one be +24? He stated that 24:00 hours and +24 do not exist.

My big thing is if you graph it. I like my graphs to look neat without any breaks. However, at the dateline, it has no slope. If you would use GMT but with absolute value, then the graph would be perfect looking. But you just add or lose a day. When crossing a time zone to me should only add or lose an hour. Why is that one line an exception to the rule?

Professor Smarmiarty · 08-16-2012, 03:24 PM

I just don't even understand why you are saying. Your explanation makes no sense.
It is a different day on either side of the timezone- this is precisely the reason American Samoa changed because when they were on Friday Australia and NZ were on Saturday and closed. You do gain +24 or -24 hours when you cross it.
If it is 10:30am Monday on the Eastern side, its 10:30am Tuesday on the western side. Thus by crossing you gain or lose 24 hours, 1 day.
I think that is what your confusion is, your post makes no sense to me.

BahamutFlare · 08-16-2012, 07:22 PM

I just honestly hate the idea of time zones. You cross a line and you gain/lose 24 hours. When every time you cross a time zone line, you gain/lose 1. It just isn't consistent.

You're never gaining or losing an hour or day by crossing a time zone. The only thing time zones are useful for are making markers in the day.. Every day at 1 PM you will see the sun (weather excluded). It's just a marker saying "This is when these people see the sun rise."

08-15-2012, 02:02 AM	#1
BahamutFlare Troopa Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: PA Posts: 34	Time Zone Discussion So me and a friend are arguing over time zones. And basically I have 2 questions, does 24:00 exist? Part 2 which is the main part, what exactly happens where the time zone is +/-12. I'm a big calc fan, so when I look at a graph of the displacement, I see a no slope. Because the displacement of time goes from +23 to 0. In this case, I think it'd make more sense graphically and maybe mathematically for time zones to go from 0 to 12 to 0. We don't really need + or minus. Just take the absolute value using GMT. It seems that if you travel around the world, you magically travel back in time 23 hours when reaching that certain point. Time flows so I just don't understand why reaching that point doesn't change the day. Why +0 isn't +24 also. +24 makes it a new day thus making it +0 again. You travel around in one way, so in a way, you experienced more or less earth rotations, I'd think. In GMT, how does +12/-12 work? Both are the same reference point, but are the the same time, same day? Anyway that 'wall' where it changes drastically is my main curiosity in how it works. Thank you all for the discussion.

08-15-2012, 02:48 AM	#2
A Zarkin' Frood formerly known as Prince. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Right here, with you >:) Posts: 2,396	1. Does 24:00 exist? You could just as well ask if 23:60 exists. The answer is yes. Both are 0:00. We start counting at 0 because that's the first hour of the day. 1 o clock is the second. 23 is the 24th. The day only has 24 hours, though. So the most intuitive thing is to go back to 0 after 23, so we don't have the first hour of a day to be noted as 24:00. Some may do it, but I don't see why aside from confusing people. 2. Let's assume 12:00 in GMT. Let's also assume DST doesn't exist. That means in -12 the day starts and in +12 (they cover the same region, the difference is the date, see: International Date Line which says what I'm saying with better words, but also more of them.) the day is over. Pass that mark and the date will change. It doesn't really work any different than time "differences" in different time zones. You are not "traveling through time magically" You are entering a different time zone. One that just happens to be a day "earlier" on the calendar. __________________ >:( C-: Last edited by A Zarkin' Frood; 08-15-2012 at 02:51 AM. Reason: Removed artifact from times when I did not post the link

08-15-2012, 03:52 AM	#3
Bells That's so PC of you Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In a Server-sided Dimension where time is meaningless Posts: 10,490	To be more "florish" about it... the space between 00:00 and 01:00 is what makes 1 hour, not the "1 hour" it self. So, in reality, the "24th hour" would be the space between 23:00 and 24:00, but when 24:00 arrives it automatically cycles back, going to 00:00 __________________ *BELLS STORE : Clothes! You wear* them! Free US Shipping Subscription System? WTF?! Zazzle Black!**

08-16-2012, 12:10 AM	#5
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	DST is super dumb and I hate it. __________________ I am very tired.

08-15-2012, 11:47 PM	#4
CABAL49 Not bad. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Senatus Populusque Americanus Posts: 1,584	Yes it exists. Can we talk about how DST is silly now?

08-16-2012, 01:07 PM	#7
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	I don't understand whats so hard, +12 and -12 exist, when you go over them you lose/gain a day. American Samoa recentely swapped date lines so they had the same day as Australia (where they do most of their business now) rather than America (where they ued to)

08-16-2012, 01:31 PM	#8
BahamutFlare Troopa Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: PA Posts: 34	My friend said that when you pass them, you don't lose a day. That it remains the same day. Time zones are just markers in which you add X hours to the actual time. In which I wonder, when you get to +23 hours. Why can't the next one be +24? He stated that 24:00 hours and +24 do not exist. My big thing is if you graph it. I like my graphs to look neat without any breaks. However, at the dateline, it has no slope. If you would use GMT but with absolute value, then the graph would be perfect looking. But you just add or lose a day. When crossing a time zone to me should only add or lose an hour. Why is that one line an exception to the rule?

08-16-2012, 03:24 PM	#9
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	I just don't even understand why you are saying. Your explanation makes no sense. It is a different day on either side of the timezone- this is precisely the reason American Samoa changed because when they were on Friday Australia and NZ were on Saturday and closed. You do gain +24 or -24 hours when you cross it. If it is 10:30am Monday on the Eastern side, its 10:30am Tuesday on the western side. Thus by crossing you gain or lose 24 hours, 1 day. I think that is what your confusion is, your post makes no sense to me.

08-16-2012, 07:22 PM	#10
BahamutFlare Troopa Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: PA Posts: 34	I just honestly hate the idea of time zones. You cross a line and you gain/lose 24 hours. When every time you cross a time zone line, you gain/lose 1. It just isn't consistent. You're never gaining or losing an hour or day by crossing a time zone. The only thing time zones are useful for are making markers in the day.. Every day at 1 PM you will see the sun (weather excluded). It's just a marker saying "This is when these people see the sun rise."