Echo-o-o-o

[phil_]

Originally Posted by Marc v4.0

I think hat was mostly about Robin, who has talked at length about his shit habits and said horribly sexist creeper things about his ex-wife and then been a terrible racist and still allowed to post here and how that makes everything so much better for everyone!

I suppose that is a valid point to make, then.

[POS Industries]

Originally Posted by Marc v4.0

I think hat was mostly about Robin, who has talked at length about his shit habits and said horribly sexist creeper things about his ex-wife and then been a terrible racist and still allowed to post here and how that makes everything so much better for everyone!

Yep, that was pretty much just Betty's one-woman show, "Robin's Entire Conversational History Condensed Into One Post: The Musical."

[Aldurin]

I mainly agree with Token's statement on how the remnants of NPF have basically become the horribly dysfunctional family that never should have happened. People have stuck around for a while, and people often change with others.

Personally, NPF helped me mature up and understand how to actually approach the internet, in face of my constant idiocy back then. You guys taught me to better approach humor and manners, and to take others opinions with a salt lick slammed on top. I don't know if it would have ended up the same if I was primarily involved with the Wesnoth or Dink Smallwood communities instead, and I really don't want to speculate where that would have gotten me.

NPF is a great place, we just need to adjust our stick-in-ass demographics a little bit more.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Betty Elms

"when uncertain, err on the side of being a dick."

But how else will we earn our beloved Rep? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that's the only way (as stated in the various Rep threads).

edit- I guess with the talk about how rape jokes are terrible (I never really followed any of those threads for a few reasons, one being that I felt I had nothing to add since yeah rape jokes are terrible, and another being I saw the shitstorm clouds looming and decided to stay away), I should change my signature?

[A Zarkin' Frood]

This thread is just all the reasons to abandon NPF condensed into one tiny thread. Honestly. Makes one forget about the reasons to stay.

E: Yes, a lot of comments for my rep received do start with "Fuck you"

[shiney]

Originally Posted by A Zarkin' Frood

This thread is just all the reasons to abandon NPF condensed into one tiny thread. Honestly. Makes one forget about the reasons to stay.

E: Yes, a lot of comments for my rep received do start with "Fuck you"

Basically. I'm currently ranting in the mod forum because I'm done with this argument.

For the people who say offensive things: FOR FUCK'S SAKE. Your opinion and experiences are yours, and you're entitled to them. When does this mean that you get to shit on other people because they don't believe the same way? It is soooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier on me and the community if you maybe think:

"I am going to say something about a person somewhere. This something is maybe insulting? Is it worth my time to say this thing, or should I find some other entertaining topic, or perhaps rephrase my comments to be not insulting?"

than it is for you to go posting "my opinion is great and you shouldn't be offended thickskinlol" and deal with the completely expectable shitstorm that inevitably follows.

Consequently, on the other side of the coin:

Someone posts "my opinion is great and you shouldn't be offended thickskinlol". It is soooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier on mr and the community if you maybe think:

"I am going to say something about this person's bigotry. This something is maybe insulting? I wonder if maybe I should just report the post and perhaps PM a mod or admin to say this person is being an asshat, instead of embroiling the thread in pure controversy, since they have established a real desire to see this nonsense stopped and it's made a lot harder when there's a multipage argument to parse"

than it is for you to go posting: "You * ist jerk you're wrong on a million levels and here's a few epithets or public shaming or whatever"

YOU ARE RIGHT THE PERSON IS BEING A SHIT

But my job is not as easy as simply agreeing and punishing the person who said something stupid, because generally speaking I have to prove intent, I have to prove motive, I have to know they are doing it purely out of spite, arrogance, hate, apathy and not just because they are a dumbshit. It's not my job to ban dumbshits, it's my job to ban actual trolls, people who are intentionally hurtful, etc.

When I am faced with a completely moronic post, based on either ignorance or some kind of indignant belief that all opinions are valid, that is very hurtful to a lot of people, versus responses to that argument that are directly and purposefully hurtful or otherwise incendiary, then I can't in good conscience just go punishing indiscriminately. I either have to punish everyone (which feels wrong because one person is an ass and one person had their feelings hurt) or punish noone which then ends up feeling like a tacit acceptance of not just the OP but the responses.

This is not the kind of tricky grey area I want or like to be in. This is what drives my inaction! I am am emotional person and I try to empathize and connect with everyone to the point where it looks like I support bigotry because of reluctanct to punish someone (as I try to understand their viewpoint and usually give them too much credit) or it looks like I support scorched earth tactics because I really don't want to get in there and punish someone for simply standing up and saying "Respect me" (albeit with somewhat less civility).

I've been kind of sitting back. I have a lot on my plate. I have the same stresses as the folks in the problems thread; I have about $400 to last me 3 months, a job that puts me in about a $600 deficit each month because of no raises for years, a wife who goes stir-crazy being stuck at home, a kid who goes to the ER 4 times a year in respiratory distress because I can't afford to get him seen by a proper specialist, a 10 month old baby girl who thank fuck thus far has had no serious accidents, an apartment that is too small, a car that is starting to die, college courses, medical bills, and on top of all that I have to watch half of my coutnrymen parade around saying I should just pull myself up by my bootstraps, fucking freeloader, lazy ass, you're poor so please just die quickly.

And then, my forum is falling apart and dying because none of you guys in these thread, not one of you has the capacity to sit back on your hands and just not make it worse. I love that sexay partay is a place where you guys can go to have a safe zone. I would much rpefer we could all be a single community again but it's not going to happen like this, with people disrespecting each other all the time.

My goal is to stamp out the notion that it's OK to have bigotry as part of your opinion and that nobody should be offended by this. The Thicker Skin argument needs to die. It may be valid based on your experiences, but not everyone has had those experiences. Some people have been hurt worse. Some people don't cope the same way. Stop assuming that just because you got over it, that someone else can. Stop assuming that your opinion is beyond reproach simply because you have a Right To Express.

You don't.

The [American] government can't put you in jail for exercising your rights to free speech, but that benefit doesn't extend to private enterprises such as NPF. In the future, everyone can expect this train of thought to be a bannable offense because ultimately? Ultimately? NONE of this would happen if people would stop saying hateful things to begin with, and NONE of this would happen if you said something hurtful, by mistake, someone said "Hey that really hurts because ABC" and you just say "Oh snap I'm sorry" and fucking shut up.

Is this a good enough rant or should I go on? I could do this for pages, people. I'm done with this situation tearing this forum apart and people thinking that NPF is a haven for hate and bigotry. Nobody should have ever even needed a safe zone and you can bet your stupid ass I'm going to make sure NPF is a welcoming hellhole for everyone to enjoy, and everyone iwll hate each other for far better reasons than gender and rape and societal issues.

You should be hating each other for liking Chrono Cross, or the wrong brand of Nintendo DS, or subs vs. dubs. Not for real world things, when you have to actually deal with them in the real world. NPF is an escape; it's for entertainment, it's for relaxation. It's for arguing about sociopolitical events, but for recognizing and respecting your differences, and not forcing your hurtful, hateful opinions on people who are our friends and family.

If you cannot respect the simple tenet of "don't be a dick" then you have no place here and I will personally see the bans placed to ensure that kind of poison can never infect our forum, ever again.

Someone want to respond to this, then please make a new thread. For now: let my words sink in and think really long and hard about everything.

Also Liz is unbanned, and if you need to ask why you haven't been paying attention.

[shiney]

Oh, and gas prices!

Fuck you, Exxon-Mobil!

[shiney]

Actually I decided to reopen the thread on the grounds that it doesn't go back to the fighting and stuff. The lack of members here really disturbs/upsets me and I've been talking about it off and on for weeks with the mods now. This fighting doesn't help it much so please let's just, not.

Otherwise feel free to (politely please) discuss and or criticize my thoughts above because ultimately we're all on this ship together so I want to make sure that, in whatever capacity I am fit to lead, I do the best I can for everyone.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by shiney

we're all on this ship together

[RobinStarwing]

I think I will take this time to basically say this.

My name is Robin. I'm an idiot. I apologize.

I take back what I said earlier but there not being such a thing as wrong opinions. Sometimes there are and do I have them? Yes. Do I know which ones they are? Not always.

I will try to not let my buttons get pressed in the future though and try to not post without thinking in the future.

Will I be 100% at this? Probably not but I'm human like us all.

What I am is very forgiving and willing to move on. Forget? No but I will forgive and move on.

Let's see if we all can't do the same with each other.

EDIT: So Liz, which one of us is De Caprio and Winslet?