Why I stopped watching porn

[Bum Bill Bee]

Bah, Song of Solomon is an odd duck, and doesn't begin to overule things like Jesus saying "if you look at women with a lusty eye cut out your eye, because in your heart you've already sinned, better to lose an eye than your whole soul in the fires of hell".

Besides, Solomon wasn't even that great of a king. The man went and built idols, just because he felt like it.

Okay, sorry about that. Anyways, yeah, porn is an odd contoversy to get at. On one hand, its bad because its objectifying and demeaning to women. Although you can always just insert the "its just a fantasy, and doesn't actually condone violence against women" angle. I know that every porn site I've ever seen comes up with a warning that puts out that stance right from the beginning.

On the other hand, you could say that its actually liberating women's sexuality, as opposed to saying "blrag, all sex that doesn't produce babies is bad". Plus its a potential career for hot looking women, or at the very least can help them pay for college, and move on to something else.

I can't really figure out which of those sides if more "liberal" or "conservative". Me reading Sinfest, thats equal parts Obama butt kissing and porn hating has not helped at all.

[MSperoni]

Jesus in the Songs of Solomon? Is this the Special Editon of the Bible where Lucas went back and digitally added Jesus to the Old Testament and made it so Abel shot first?

Maybe I misread the post...

Anyway, carry on with the porn speak!

[pochercoaster]

Tactics: I was going to link a documentary by Jean Kilbourne called Killing Us Softly 3,* but it seems it has been removed from the site I watched it on and I'm having great difficulty locating it. However, there is a similar lecture by the same lady right here: http://youtu.be/atl0K7YpbpM It's about advertising and its repercussions for women. Although it's not specifically about porn, her comments are still applicable, I think, and I highly recommend you watch it.

*Actually I guess it's the same lecture, just a different venue.

Anyways: Like all other media, I don't consider porn inherently bad. Porn that is sexist, racist, etc. and/or objectifying is a symptom of society being sexist, racist, etc., so, as Krylo, already stated, simply trying to eradicate porn and/or pretend it doesn't exist and go all purity ball doesn't solve the problem. (Although media can and does certainly reinforce sexist/racist etc. attitudes in a life imitates art, art imitates life kind of thing.)

Like all other media, scrutiny, criticism, nuanced discussion and education (particularly sex education that is comprehensive**) are important to combatting the (unfortunately large) parts of it that are toxic.

**Sex education in school seems to be in shambles and is limited to a basic understanding of reproduction and birth control, if you're lucky. While these are both important, they should not be the end all and be all of sex ed. Sex ed. should include comprehensive discussions of gender identity, sexuality, consent, abusive relationships, and sexism, so that adolescents are prepared and have a counter to the myriad of terrible messages that are laden in media including but not limited to porn.

Hopefully, educating new generations of people on what healthy sex is and isn't would create a demand for "healthy" porn and decrease demand for "unhealthy" porn (whatever that means. The UK government thinks women receiving oral sex isn't okay, for whatever shitty reason. -_-)

...On one hand, its bad because its objectifying and demeaning to women. Although you can always just insert the "its just a fantasy, and doesn't actually condone violence against women" angle. ...

On the other hand, you could say that its actually liberating women's sexuality, as opposed to saying "blrag, all sex that doesn't produce babies is bad".

The crux of the issue is how much of a say did these women have in the production of porn featuring them? This goes back to sex workers needing a union. They need to be in control of their work and also have multiple options available to them such that ideally all sex workers would only chose their line of work because they enjoy it and wouldn't have to deal with all the sexist bullshit in their industry I assume they currently have to put up with.

[Nique]

Adding to what's been said: I don't think you can say that just porn is bad without extending the definition of it to written Erotica, Boudoir photography, Instructional videos, or even various media that is not technically pornographic but is certainly designed to be arousing.

Like, I'm deftinely not saying 'go watch porn'. But even with moral reservations (which I personally also have) about 'gazing' at other women/men than one's spouse, it is more personally and socially responsible to be open to sexuality as a wider spectrum than you would otherwise feel is 'acceptable' without seeing/reading/expieriecing something that gives you a boner. Knowing and disscussing what turns you on in a monogamous relationship without judgement is really a good thing. And modern media being the prolific teaching tool that it is, you're gonna see a dick every now and then.

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by phil_

I feel pretty comfortable making a giant sweeping generalization that most pornographic videos are "silent man/men stick penis in woman who may or may not be constantly shouting expletives, directed such that penis...

You should feel comfortable with something else!

While I'm here, I appreciate that you recognize that porn can shape people's preferences as shown by your fetish paragraph. Have you considered going further and recognizing that crying, screaming, choking, etc. aren't inherently sexy even though most pornography strongly suggests that those things are sexy? And that by doing so it likely makes those things sexy to people who consume porn, as evidenced by the persistence of those themes in mainstream, don't-even-have-to-go-looking-for-it porno? I'm not even bringing up my own ideas here, I'm just repeating Ran, but perhaps you should think about it.

Dude, I don't know about like, actively harming someone actually hurting anyone against their consent is obviously wrong, but grabbing/ screaming/ crying out are all pretty sexy - arguably, inherently so. Sex is an extremely physical activity that pushes the boundaries of our sensory expieriences. Like, crying, moaning, grabbing scratching, et al... Porn made people think that the kind of sex that literally every other animal on earth does is sexy?

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by tacticslion

See, that's a good question, and the reason I asked in the first place, is because, frankly, I just don't know. I'm not into that sort of thing (and have worked to avoid it since High School, despite it's ubiquity though ultimately, I've not been able to), so I'm honestly just not knowledgeable. (Similarly, Krylo, I've no idea what a "Brazzers logo" is, but I'll almost definitely close it!)

So that's pretty much exclusively why I'm asking. My experience, what I've had, has all shown it to be degrading, frustrating, and misogynistic. I... hate... that sort of thing. Hate it. Almost every example I've seen tends toward that, too, which is frustrating.

I suppose to some extent, I'm also asking about the various categories of pornographic material, or erotica, or hentai (is that different than porn, other than denoting that it's Japanese-inspired drawn work?), ecchi (a specific thing with tentacles, I think?), and so on. As in: what are they? Does any particular category tend toward less abuse than others? If so, why? How?

Well, I can at least explain some of the terms used. (Interpretions about exact boundaries between hentai and ecchi varies and I'm using my own defination as far as I know it, so take with a grain of salt)
Hentai is pretty much the term that people reach for when they discuss animated porn, especially japanese style (typically if there is tentacles used sexually, they'd tend to go there). The word actually means "perverted" so while someone in manga might claim that a person is "hentai", it has taken on a new defination as a term for that sort of porn genre.
Ecchi is more "fan-service" driven. It's basically where the setting is focused on sexually arousing the viewers throughout the story with sexual imagery with low-cut cleavage, panty shots, impossibly idealized bodies and such like that while the story (which can be awesome/serious) goes on. Many anime marketed to teenagers fall in this catagory. They can go hand in hand, but they can also exist apart from each other.

-(+Hentai+Ecchi): The typical all out porn model; Idealized bodies (especially of females) are rampant, sexual acts done for the sake of entertainment of the viewers and so on. I won't give an example since it'll obviously be NSFW and they are incredibly plentiful anyhow. Mind you, there can still be some good works in these catagory, but with mass amount of content, there is bound to be a few gems in a horde of works of questionable qualities.

- (-Hentai+Ecchi): A typical shonen (youth) model for producers who still want to cash in the sexuality aspect. Sex does not actually take place, or if so, is implied as background info, behind censors. Characters tend to look idealized and sexualized, but the story is (supposably) the leading charge, and the sexualized appearance is sometimes ignored by the characters themselves, or only lampshaded as a personality quirk. The manga
"History's Disciple Kenichi" is an excellent example, that you can even observe as the series starts mild on the ecchi scale and has grown more ecchi up until the series was over. Still a great read.

-(+Hentai-Ecchi): Very rare, and typically the more "realistic" version. The premise of the work is still going to be graphic sex, but nudity and sexual scenarios won't show up unless appropriate, bodies tend to be more realistic and so on. This may be the more tasteful version for some works, but be warned that "dark and unpleasant" sub-genre like goro (Multilation sex) may also fall into this umbrella.

- (-Hentai-Ecchi): These works don't focus on sexual matters. They can still happen as a background thing or for something mild like kissing, but it won't be prominent in a work.


Now, you might be downright depressed about finding decent works... Well, I have two prominent and easily accessible examples that might cheer you up, if you're willing to give one last try or so.

Katawa Shoujo: A visual novel about the protagonist coming down with a heart condition that leaves him in a depressive state about where his future will lead, when he could possibly die any day to a casual accident via a bump to the chest or so. He gets sent to a school for those with special needs in order to give him an education while being able to help monitor his health while giving him the skills needed to live on his own when he graduates. During this story, you can interact with (and possibly romance) 5 girls, each with their own particular disfiguration or disability.

As for what I think about this work? This quote says it all for me.

So it's actually not about seducing and nailing disabled girls. The girls happen to have disabilities, but the more you get to know them, the more you come to realise that they are girls just like any other. They are humans with hopes and dreams, and messy, fucked up insecurities about being alive and happy. They are not strange people - they are regular ordinary human beings who feel the way they feel not because they are disabled, but because they are ordinary. They are the universal allegory for humanity; the archetypal human; the mess you become when you feel sad and alone and unworthy. They are the girl next door, the prom queen, the bookworm, the tomboy, and all the baggage that comes with that - nothing more or less.

They resonate with you because you recognise your flaws and needs and desires and triumphs and victories, and those of the loved ones you know and care about. You want to make them happy, because you want them to be happy, because you know them and are them, and in some way you believe everyone you love deserves to be happy.

You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.
- A message from The Anonymous of 4chan◊

The story is a heart-felt tale about the struggle for self-validation and intimacy when you feel less than whole, less than a normal person. The disabilities that the characters have are largely incidental to the real deeper concerns and fears that they have that any person would have, but are overlooked due to their physical/mental disabilities being more easily noticed. The sex is tasteful (and optional, although you would miss out story-points if you turn it off in the option menu) and I would recommend it to anyone who isn't turned off by its occasional adult content.
It's also free to download and the music is awesome. Can't go wrong with this.

-Futari Ecchi and Futari Ecchi for Ladies: The author recognized that some people struggle living life with a mistaken impression (or general ignorance) of how sex and romance works due to their unrealistic depiction in media, poor sex education in schools, social scrutiny and personal fear about being too forward asking questions about sex, and general inexperience. Thus the author attempts to remedy that by making a manga that encouragingly gives advice through a narrative story of a married couple, both mutual inexperienced and worried about screwing things up, but mutually wanting their marriage to be a happy one. (The story also has some chapters on their friends with different sort of issues that are also relevant) Details about biology, sex positions, laws, and social cultures are interspersed throughout the story and it tries to do so in a sexually arousing but reassuring and educational fashion.

I found it a nice read, and fairly educational too. Opinions is a little bit divided on how well received it is (especially where the husband is concerned), but I think it's worth a shot in your case.

[phil_]

Look, guys, I don't even know what sex even is. Please forget I said anything. I know this is an immature way of disengaging from a discussion; I'm doing it anyway.

[Nique]

Originally Posted by phil_

Look, guys, I don't even know what sex even is. Please forget I said anything. I know this is an immature way of disengaging from a discussion; I'm doing it anyway.

I certainly wasn't trying to insult your inteligence. If that's how my response came across, I apologize. Any jabs were meant in good humor.

[Kim]

that most porn apparently normalizes CHOKING is news to me! I don't see it very often at all.

Also, like I said, people on the receiving end of being beaten and stuff can be super into it, and our reasons aren't purely centered around having watched a bunch of violent porn.

Let's talk submission and bondage: There are lots of reasons its nice and fun but among them is in a submissive role you can let go of a lot of worries and stress that might come with sex normally. You don't gotta worry about figuring stuff out for yourself or anything. Just be an obedient sub and let your domme tell you what to do. Even being physically restrained can be really calming.

Additionally, it can help victims of certain forms of abuse cope with them. Developing new contexts and associations with things that are a source of trauma for you. Many who engage in ageplay are victims of childhood sexual abuse. Someone with rape fantasies can be a person who was actually raped.

Additionally, think of it in the context of people who tend to emotionally beat themselves up over every little thing. Being "punished" can actually be really freeing in that sense.

Porn is not the source of fetishes. Rather, fetishes are the source of fetish porn, and that fetish porn can help people find new fetishes.

[Nique]

Originally Posted by Kim

that most porn apparently normalizes CHOKING is news to me! I don't see it very often at all.

I imagine this is more like... just neck grabbing/ mild restraining, as actually choking someone makes generally unpleasant sounds (although breath play is a thing, of course).

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I haven't noticed that all too much either. Then again I haven't watched porn all that much recently.

I have heard some studios are rather infamous for stuff like that. Not sure if it's ok to mention names for places like that here for the sake of being SFW.