Stem Cell Research

[Mesden]

Originally Posted by TheWolf13

I am totally for life-saving cures and stem cell research. However I am against embryonic stem cell research. Many people have already debated over exactly when "life" begins so I won't add my totally worthless opinion. Instead I would like to point out that it is an opinion and no one knows for sure exactly when life begins. An old professor of mine pointed out that no one would want to accidentally commit murder and therefore we should probably be careful when it comes to any purposeful destruction of an embryo.

I honestly wouldn't mind taking vital organs from someone who's brain dead and will, at best, just sit there in technical life, but not conscious life, until they slowly die.

Even moreso with something that hasn't even begun to think or really affect other peoples' lives.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by TheWolf13

In Missouri they passed a law last year that allows specific government funded organizations to fertilize unused sperm and egg donations to form an embryo. That embryo can then be aborted and embryonic stem cells extracted for research. While most embryonic stem cell research use leftover embryos from fertility clinics it is important to note that not all states require it to be done this way.

I am totally for life-saving cures and stem cell research. However I am against embryonic stem cell research. Many people have already debated over exactly when "life" begins so I won't add my totally worthless opinion. Instead I would like to point out that it is an opinion and no one knows for sure exactly when life begins. An old professor of mine pointed out that no one would want to accidentally commit murder and therefore we should probably be careful when it comes to any purposeful destruction of an embryo.

well ok, yea you should disallow creation of embyos just to get stem-cells. But just because you should outlaw that doesn't mean you should ban it all. Thats just stupid.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I am totally for life-saving cures and stem cell research. However I am against embryonic stem cell research. Many people have already debated over exactly when "life" begins so I won't add my totally worthless opinion. Instead I would like to point out that it is an opinion and no one knows for sure exactly when life begins. An old professor of mine pointed out that no one would want to accidentally commit murder and therefore we should probably be careful when it comes to any purposeful destruction of an embryo.

That would depend on your definition of "life," if life is indeed what you aim never to end. If it involves a soul somehow, then yeah, we don't know. But you could well have a definition that's based on something more measurable, and in that case we could have certainty.

[Gorefiend]

Well, taking that view that, without interaction with other humans we are all, individually, nothing, I would say that murder is murder as long as someone would reasonably object to, and be personally injured by, that person's death. I don't mean watching it on the TV and saying "That's not right!" I mean, mourining, and experiencing a horrible loss, and wanting to seek out justice for this dead person, and all that. In short, murder is the killing of people, and people are people who will be missed, and whom at least one other person will confirm as such. After all, for all we can know, the murdered person doesn't care he was murdered: for him or her, its over. Its all the people left behind to mourn that care.

By this definition, embryos aren't exactly people unless implanted in a womb and growing. By this definition, wanted fetuses, infants and toddlers are people; their parents would grieve their loss, at least for a while. By this definition, embryonic stem cell research (ESR) is perfectly admissible.

[Althane]

Isn't the question sorta moot, because we've got thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of embryos leftover from IVF attempts?

I mean, if nobody is going to use them, then why not just, y'know, use them.

-_-

Because nobody is going to use them. Be realistic.

Anyone have the numbers on how many there are?

[Zilla]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

well ok, yea you should disallow creation of embyos just to get stem-cells. But just because you should outlaw that doesn't mean you should ban it all. Thats just stupid.

How's that stupid? It reminds me of cooking class, when we had to use half a bullion cube for something, and instead of wasting the other half, I got some water and put it in that and microwaved it and had some broth. It's going to a junkyard, finding a car, and stripping it of parts.

[Gorefiend]

I think he meant its stupid to ban everything, not that its stupid not to.

And, Althane, the debate, as I know it, is actually precisely about that. Most embryonic stem cell research is, to the best of my knowledge, based on fertility clinics' leftovers. The idea of creating embryos from unused sperm and egg donations sounds somewhat appaling, though if those donations have a limited viability, it would certainly be alright in my book to use them towards the end of their lifespan.

[Althane]

Not to mention that they wouldn't be used anyways.

I mean, how many people do you know want to become pregnant with some stranger's baby? They'll use their own eggs and their own sperm. >.>

So, now there's basically a ton of already fertilized eggs in cold storage. Let's be honest with ourselves here. The only thing they're headed for is destruction. Let's make something out of it first.

Then again, if life truly does start at conception, it has much the same effect as experimenting on a live human. Which doesn't appeal to me at all.

So just keep doublethinkin', ja?

[Gorefiend]

Well, from a physical standpoint, embryos at the blastocyte have no brainwaves, partly as a product of having a very underdeveloped (if at all existant) brain. Unless you believe in some sort of dualistic universe, with a special metaphysical thing we have that nothing else does, its safe to say that embryos cannot suffer the way you or I can.

And, some people use other people's sperm or eggs, but given the amount of orphans in the world, and the amount of couples, I'm fairly certain most people do prefer to make their own than to get someone else's, when possible.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Then again, if life truly does start at conception, it has much the same effect as experimenting on a live human. Which doesn't appeal to me at all.

Well, in that case, I'd say we have a moral duty to implant every single one. I mean, it's a bunch of people in stasis. What possible humane option is there, other than to give them their lives?