Kickass Star Fox fangame: Lessee how long it takes before a C&D(/nerdrage)!

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Hey, Blues? Do you like music?

Like any music at all that has been produced since 1969?

Maybe you should check this out. If modern copyright laws had been in place then, or if the owners of this six second drum beat had decided to enforce their copyright most of that music wouldn't exist.

EVERYTHING is a derivative work, and copyright laws do not HELP creativity. They stifle it, choke it to death, beat it into the ground, then gussy up the corpse in cheap make-up and put it out on the corner.

I can agree with this in that it's a very distinctive beat that's been used everywhere. On the other hand, there's a difference between taking a small portion of something, an IDEA, and making something different from it, like an entirely new song, compared to taking the entire song, adding different lyrics, and then complaining when you get sued. The IDEA these fans are taking is making a space fighter. However, they're also taking the name, designs, and assumedly the characters. That's where a matter of degree deprives them the right of doing it if the company protests. That's what copyright law is meant to protect, is that matter of degree. Yes, it stifles creativity in that if you take too much, you end up in hot water, but that's less creativity and more just copying, or at best, remixing. On the other hand, REAL creativity is coming up with a product that's maybe made of a few borrowed ideas, but is differentiated from the sources of those ideas by the execution and differences.

You... you are going to school for computers, right? You... do know this isn't how it works?

This is more like someone taking a picture of a painting on your wall, bringing the picture home, and then using that picture as inspiration to make their own painting. Which, well, any sane person would have no problem with.

Okay, so yeah, you're right. Theft is not a good comparison in this case since they're building from the ground up, rather than modding, but I disagree in the "inspiration" front. To change the comparison, it's less of stealing the painting and more of copying it, only with the added stipulation that the painting is already famous in this case. There's a difference between saying, "WOW! I'm so inspired by this to make my own product!" and "WOW! I'mma copy this!" If they were inspired to make their own product, they'd make their own product. They're not making their own product, though. They're copying one that they like directly. If they were making their own product, they'd be releasing an original IP that contains everything they loved about Starfox, rather than making a "Starfox" game. The worst slap in the face is that the indication is that they're doing it better than the company that owns it, which is like making a copy of a painting and improving parts you don't like, then taking the painting to the original artist and saying, "Hey, didn't like your work well enough, so I copied it and made it better before handing out prints. You may now thank me."

I frankly DO have some idea how this works, because I, myself, am in the market of making games. If I were to actually manage to release any of them, I can honestly say I'd be royally pissed if some idiots had the gall to not be satisfied with me making more to their standards and then steal all of my characters for their own purposes. Maybe a bit flattered that people cared enough for the work of a small-time schmuck like me to want more, but still pissed that they felt they deserved it regardless of my wishes or feelings, especially if I found out about it in the news, rather than them having the decency to at least ask.

Originally Posted by Wyndon

This is so ironic. All of it.

I'm so for these guys doing whatever they want (so long as they don't make money off of it). I feel like if they do most of the legwork, and come up with some cool new ideas, Nintendo might just take up a half-started Starfox project, finish it with their professional team, and then pay these guys some royalties for starting it/coming up with the ideas (assuming there's going to be some innovation).

It's what Valve did for portal - they bought it off a bunch of college game developers.

Anyway, what's with all the ill-intentions here? I mean, I read the Video Games threads here, and a lot of people bitch about what they don't like in the games that are being put out. So these guys went ahead and fixed what they didn't like - you don't have to buy in to the idea. But you can be sure that many other people will buy into it because they want innovation on an old idea.

You have to remember, though, that Nintendo has a VERY different business model. Frankly, pretty much everyone one does. Valve is like this crazy, wonderful lone island full of young guys just insane enough to do everything absolutely right.

It's also not so much that anyone hates innovation as I'm voicing my dislike for the fact that they're not innovating on their own IP. If they wanted to make an awesome game, power to them, but they could have done it without the legal issues.

Also, blues, you can't really be serious. Come on, you should know better. If they had made this game based upon original idea and plot and characters, no one would give it a second glance. Not even you. This thread probably wouldn't even exist. The fact that it's Starfox is what's giving it whatever publicity it's been getting. That's what the developers want - they probably want jobs at Nintendo, and this seems like a pretty decent way to do it, if they do it well and Nintendo likes their idea.

It's not harming anyone, and if they don't profit off of it, I don't see why not. It's a free game, no? It could be good, who knows.

Okay, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Ignoring the patronizing tone, this sums it up completely. If they made their own awesome game, maybe it wouldn't draw as much public attention, but it also wouldn't draw any LEGAL attention. Nintendo is not Valve. I personally would not be driven to hire people if they started messing with one of my titles, but that's mostly because I'm the lead designer, writer, programmer, and producer of all my own work at the moment. It's my personal stuff, and if I ever manage to get into the games industry (which I probably won't since my education is more business-oriented), I'll probably have more time to be flattered at that kind of thing, rather than upset, just by merit of having a stable position and knowing my work has made many people happy. Nintendo takes a position more matching my current stance. They dislike people messing with their stuff. This is unlikely to get people hired and the project picked up so much as it is to get the thing C&Ded. If it were Valve, it would be different. Heck, even Microsoft, because for all its flaws, Microsoft has the good trait of hiring people who do good work.

No, it's not directly harming anyone, since Nintendo has been leaving the series lie for a while, so loss of sales are going to be minimal. On the other hand, that STILL doesn't give these people the rights to the property, and Nintendo has every right to ask them to stop, C&D them, and/or sue them all into oblivion at their option, without warning, for making a game under the Starfox title. That's the issue here. Fuck if a guy like me is going to say people shouldn't be able to make a game. I'm just saying that I find it hard to sympathize with people who get their game C&Ded by the company they're using the IP of, when it all could be easily avoided by simply calling it something else.