NP, I have some rage to vent

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Marc v1.0

Well, if I wanted to be a bit of a dick, I'd point out that Religions aren't entities or creatures, but collections of intertwined beliefs and ideas and ultimatly the responsibility lies on the shoulders of those that take those ideas and "interpret" them.

You could, yeah, but it would be silly semantics slicing which is generally just a dickish way of admitting you lost the argument. Also one I can't really argue against without bringing in theology, but anyone with even a passing understanding of Christian or Islamic texts would know what I'm getting at there.

Point is: No, religions with doctrines that demonize homophobia are not 100% blameless, therefore it is not stupid to assign blame to them. It's ignorant etc. to assign 100% of the blame to them, sure. Probably even to assign MOST of the blame, but it's not at all stupid to assign some blame to religion.

Edit:

If the Church of Bob of the Fifth Seal's holy writ said "Don't hate on the Gays, guys" and someone said "Oh, but that's not what it really means, cause you see if I just explain it this way so that it sounds like it's really saying "Stone them to death and Burn their corpses" it's not the fault of the Church of Bob of the Fifth Seal. It;s that stupid asshole there.

Except the religions that are generally blamed for this ACTUALLY say things like "Stone them to death and burn the corpses" (seriously, I don't think for gays, but this punishment is actually in there for shit like telling off your parents) and it takes some creative reading to get to the viewpoints that AREN'T like that.

Sooooooooo, yeah.

And now I've officially gone too far, sooo I'm out.

[Marc v4.0]

I expanded a bit on what I meant. Why's everything have to be an arguement instead of a spirited discussion?

[Krylo]

I read, edited, bowed out of discussion because there's no way I can continue this without it being TERRIBAD.

Also, I'm bored enough that I'm just reloading.

Not really pissed/arguing. Except maybe a little at Bit, but he totally started that.

[MasterOfMagic]

Originally Posted by Marc v1.0

If the Church of Bob of the Fifth Seal's holy writ said "Don't hate on the Gays, guys" and someone said "Oh, but that's not what it really means, cause you see if I just explain it this way so that it sounds like it's really saying "Stone them to death and Burn their corpses" it's not the fault of the Church of Bob of the Fifth Seal. It;s that stupid asshole there.

This is true, but is not an accurate description of what's going on in real life.

Its totally the fault of the people who don't examine their thought processes and figure out that "hey, this is bullshit!" Completely agree there. Its when we move into "belief systems taught to people while they are young and impressionable" have absolutely no blame in the propagation of these bad strings of thought that you lose me. Sure, there are other factors. Yes, the parents are to blame as well. Yes, it wouldn't matter in an ideal world because everyone would take 5 minutes to think. But to say that its not a factor at all is beyond my capabilities.

There's enough blame for everyone on the merry go-round, its not a simple subject with one cause. But the very fact that some beliefs teach that being gay is wrong propagates the fear, regardless of how many other factors there are in the process.

[Osterbaum]

We go from venting rage (by the OP) to telling him off. Just to clarify, I don't think all points about him being infact intolerant himself in his post were wrong or motivated by assholines, however I was slightly uncomfortable with the general direction of the thread ie. afraid that dissing him might go a bit overboard. Though I'd also like to point out that this is a written form of communication we're using here, so it is easy to misunderstand people and their posts since we can't actually hear their tone.

Anyway, then we somehow get to anarchy and then scratch the surface of religion discussion? We here at NPF sure know how to do it.

[MasterOfMagic]

Originally Posted by Osterbaum

Anyway, then we somehow get to anarchy and then scratch the surface of religion discussion? We here at NPF sure know how to do it.

Damn straight. We don't make a thread. We make a thread.

[Krylo]

Speaking of, can we get back to Anarchy? I'd like to hear Oster's thoughts on how to get it to work, and I don't think he ever really expanded much on it (I'll bet Smarty has some good ones, too, as communism should basically lead to anarchy). I've heard lots of anarcho-capitalistic ideas (which I pretty much hate with a fervent passion), and a few anarcho-communistic ideas (which I like but don't see them working on large scales for long, at least not coming at it from current human society), and I'm kind of wondering where his ideas lie.

Anarchy, when thought out past teenage rebellion-esque, "NO ONE TELLS ME WHAT TO DO, MAAAAAN," is actually a pretty interesting concept and probably the best thing this thread can turn into.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by Osterbaum

We go from venting rage (by the OP) to telling him off. Just to clarify, I don't think all points about him being infact intolerant himself in his post were wrong or motivated by assholines, however I was slightly uncomfortable with the general direction of the thread ie. afraid that dissing him might go a bit overboard. Though I'd also like to point out that this is a written form of communication we're using here, so it is easy to misunderstand people and their posts since we can't actually hear their tone.

I wasn't intending to attack Nightshine personally or dogpile on him I just wanted to point out he was doing what he was accusing others of. While I might agree with his general position that doesn't justify huge generalisations and demonisations of other groups of people who I didn't think would get much defence on this board.

[Meister]

Originally Posted by NonCon

Basically, regardless of whether you think this is fair or not, before the forum starts taking him more seriously and treating him more respectfully, he's going to have to earn it. Given many of his previous posts, he's going to have to earn it really hard.

I'm not going to lie to him and say it's any other way, even if it should be.

Being a dick about something and later coming back and saying "wow I've been a dick about this, sorry guys, my bad" already strikes me as a great deal more mature than going "hey this guy's been a dick a few times let's remind everyone of it again and again and again." You can't very well "earn your respect"*(a pretty bullshit concept in itself) if there's always someone guaranteed to quote your old stupid posts at you no matter what you say.

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by Meister

You can't very well "earn your respect"*(a pretty bullshit concept in itself) if there's always someone guaranteed to quote your old stupid posts at you no matter what you say.

I'd be 100% okay with treating this entire thread with respect and dignity and gently letting Nightshine know my thoughts without turning myself into an asshole, if he wasn't very clear not even two days ago that he clearly doesn't give a fuck about anyone's (Specifically Kyanbu's) feelings.

I'm not going to keep on digging up that stupid Duane and Brando thread if he was honestly looking to move past it, but when he says --

Originally Posted by Nightshine

Oh the many horrible things of which I want to say to the Kyanbu. I can sum it up into two simple letters:


QQ




(Also, it's been said before: get off the internet if you can't take criticism)

-- it is quite clear he doesn't give a fuck about changing from his old ways.