Metaphysics(Star Wars, Star Trek, Etc.) - Page 2

Neverwhere · 02-17-2004, 12:35 PM

Ok, you guys are all about the Star Wars aspect of meta-physics. What about Star Trek? The acceleration of going from "impulse speed" to "Warp 9.9999" (since Warp 10 means time travel which is something Picard has stated the Federation is unable to do) would literally implode the Enterprise. Sure, a self-contained gravity field would provide some protection, but not from that MASSIVE an amout of acceleration.

Furthermore, Star Wars weapons would be useless against the Star Trek weapons. Something Ive discussed with other oldies

02-17-2004, 02:38 PM

I always assumed that the Star Trek universe had mastered the forces of inertia and gravity. If they can simply stop the effects of inertia, which is what they would need to do to accelerate that fast (or else their hearts would sever themselves from their chests), then it doesn't matter how fast they accelerate.

Apletto · 02-17-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverwhere

Ok, you guys are all about the Star Wars aspect of meta-physics. What about Star Trek? The acceleration of going from "impulse speed" to "Warp 9.9999" (since Warp 10 means time travel which is something Picard has stated the Federation is unable to do) would literally implode the Enterprise. Sure, a self-contained gravity field would provide some protection, but not from that MASSIVE an amout of acceleration.

Furthermore, Star Wars weapons would be useless against the Star Trek weapons. Something Ive discussed with other oldies

Star Trek is in no way based on meta-physics. It's just physics, fake physics, but physics none the less. Until you get to the places where they talk to God(original series) or meet the ancient spirits of the worm hole(DS9), which are so poorly done they should be ignored by all.

As for weapon comparison, I have never seen the like of the Sun Crusher, Darksaber, Death Star, or any of the massively destructive weapons from Star Wars that range from planet-sized to handheld. And of course FIGHTERS are always a nice thing in a fight, especially gobs and gobs of fighters with good weapon systems. Not to mention Star Wars capital ships do not instantly have some kind of critical failure in their drives, reactors, or shield generators EVERY TIME THEY GET IN AN IMPORTANT FIGHT.

Then you have the Blaster to the Phaser. The phaser doesn't even leave a mark, the Heavy Blaster Rifle carried by some Stormtroopers(several seen on Tatooine) leave little but a black mark where their target was, and the smaller lasers are also fairly deadly, but likely about an even match for Phasers. But then you have all the different grenades, vibropikes, lightsabers, armors, etc that Star Wars characters use.

Forever Zero · 02-17-2004, 06:56 PM

Bah, compared to the power of the Force, those weapons are nothing. Seriously, how can you fight someone that can snap a blood vessel in your brain and kill you instantly as soon as they see you, and they already know where you are so you can't ambush them? (It hapened in the books for those that don't read them. A Dark Jedi almost took out Luke with the "Snapped Blood Vessel in Brain" trick...)

Krylo · 02-17-2004, 08:13 PM

Q would own a jedi, though... He's stopped time and altered the physics of the universe before, plus he can create and destroy life on a whim... and he can do all the shit jedi can as well, but I think we're suppose to be discussing how things would work, not which universe is better?

And to that end... Basically, Apletto, a jedi could parry anything, given that they were strong enough in the force? And, there's some other evidence that it's not the lightsaber too... Vader parried a blaster bolt with his hand in cloud city.

But... if turbolasers aren't plasma, what are they? It seems unlikely that they are actual lasers...

02-17-2004, 08:16 PM

Okay... Star Trek Physics just dont exist... trust me. I study physics and a whole bunch they talk about is BS. But anyways... i think they try to explain the acceleration thing with the warp bubble they make around the ship... I.E. space is warping around them... so they dont get hurt?

On another note: Apletto, Phasers own blasters... how many hand-held blasters literally vaporize a person? And are accurate?? NONE!
Also... Star Trek will always win, as according to TNG rules... a concentrated tachyon beam can do ANYTHING... and fixes EVERY problem

But with star wars I always just let any weird question that comes into my head be explained by the force... it does everything... EVERYTHING. Seriously... Luke can be sitting at home watching TV and be all like "I wish i had some hotpockets right now.." and BAM- Hot pockets.. perfectly cooked and everything.

Okay just joking with that... But, yeah, the lightsaber deflection is all in the force and how you can use it... the saber portion is just used as an extension of the Jedi. And the force is all powerful... so a jedi can do just about anything with one.

02-17-2004, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverwhere

"Warp 9.9999" (since Warp 10 means time travel which is something Picard has stated the Federation is unable to do)

Warp 10 has been reached. It was in voyager. Tom Paris started to turn into a monkey. Just wanted to add that.

Rhuhael · 02-17-2004, 09:50 PM

This is true and also I'd like to place a small note. If this isn't going to be a discussion on impossible things and we're periodically going to bring up that this doesn't work etc. etc. then aren't we breaking the primary mandate of meta-physics?

Anyway if you want to make it realistic that would have to do with antimatter as a fuel and that opens up antimatter as a weapon as well which eliminates most of the other weapons.

Lycanthrope · 02-18-2004, 02:53 AM

According to my book of starwars weapons, a lightsabers deflect due to the fact that they are generated by high power magnetic fields. the blade of the saber is basically one major short circuit, two magnetic fields crossing eachother and enducing electron activity in the blade itself. The reason that Stormtroupers don't carry around lightsabers is because, without the force, blasters are nigh infinitely more effective than light sabers, as they have a greater distance, and it takes a jedi to have the reflexes/precogniscence sense to block the shot. It's comparible to why soldiers don't carry around swords now adays: bullets are just that much more effective.

Krylo · 02-18-2004, 03:34 AM

But in the movies Darth Vader blocks a blaster bolt with the palm of his hand on Bespin... and magnetic fields have little to no effect on light energy, so if they ARE magnetic fields that furthers the idea that a blaster bolt is more of a particle beam than anything...

Also: Here's a question, if Stormie armor supposedly stops bullets (and that's why people use blasters), why can't it stop sticks and stones thrown by ewoks?

02-17-2004, 12:35 PM	#11
Neverwhere Bound by Repression Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Deep within my Mind Posts: 507	Ok, you guys are all about the Star Wars aspect of meta-physics. What about Star Trek? The acceleration of going from "impulse speed" to "Warp 9.9999" (since Warp 10 means time travel which is something Picard has stated the Federation is unable to do) would literally implode the Enterprise. Sure, a self-contained gravity field would provide some protection, but not from that MASSIVE an amout of acceleration. Furthermore, Star Wars weapons would be useless against the Star Trek weapons. Something Ive discussed with other oldies __________________ Infidel Defilers! They shall all drown in the lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they will learn why they fear the night.

02-17-2004, 06:56 PM	#14
Forever Zero Saint of Stats Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The End Of The World Posts: 5,646	Bah, compared to the power of the Force, those weapons are nothing. Seriously, how can you fight someone that can snap a blood vessel in your brain and kill you instantly as soon as they see you, and they already know where you are so you can't ambush them? (It hapened in the books for those that don't read them. A Dark Jedi almost took out Luke with the "Snapped Blood Vessel in Brain" trick...) __________________ "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he pass'd; And the eyes of the sleepers wax'd deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" - The Destruction of Sennacherib

02-17-2004, 08:13 PM	#15
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Q would own a jedi, though... He's stopped time and altered the physics of the universe before, plus he can create and destroy life on a whim... and he can do all the shit jedi can as well, but I think we're suppose to be discussing how things would work, not which universe is better? And to that end... Basically, Apletto, a jedi could parry anything, given that they were strong enough in the force? And, there's some other evidence that it's not the lightsaber too... Vader parried a blaster bolt with his hand in cloud city. But... if turbolasers aren't plasma, what are they? It seems unlikely that they are actual lasers... __________________ I am very tired.

02-17-2004, 09:50 PM	#18
Rhuhael Assasin of Heaven Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Torn Between Heaven and Hell Posts: 872	This is true and also I'd like to place a small note. If this isn't going to be a discussion on impossible things and we're periodically going to bring up that this doesn't work etc. etc. then aren't we breaking the primary mandate of meta-physics? Anyway if you want to make it realistic that would have to do with antimatter as a fuel and that opens up antimatter as a weapon as well which eliminates most of the other weapons. __________________ The crusaders of this age hide from the light, preferring instead the stealthy guile of night :bmage:

02-18-2004, 02:53 AM	#19
Lycanthrope Deus Lupus Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The City of Angels Posts: 2,925	According to my book of starwars weapons, a lightsabers deflect due to the fact that they are generated by high power magnetic fields. the blade of the saber is basically one major short circuit, two magnetic fields crossing eachother and enducing electron activity in the blade itself. The reason that Stormtroupers don't carry around lightsabers is because, without the force, blasters are nigh infinitely more effective than light sabers, as they have a greater distance, and it takes a jedi to have the reflexes/precogniscence sense to block the shot. It's comparible to why soldiers don't carry around swords now adays: bullets are just that much more effective. __________________ "With these seven easy steps, you, too, can be the authoritarian despot of your own principality. Machiavelli, your road to happiness" "I shoot Flying Monkies!" "Christmas had it coming its what it gets for taking over thanksgiving and threatening halloween with its weapons of mass consumerism" "Death to All Fanatics!" Official RP Action God Lycanthropic Poem "FOR YOU THE CAKE IS OVER. YOU HAVE REACHED THE END OF CAKE." -Death Krylo and BMG are apparently my bitches.

02-17-2004, 02:38 PM	#12
VeritasHertz Guest Posts: n/a	I always assumed that the Star Trek universe had mastered the forces of inertia and gravity. If they can simply stop the effects of inertia, which is what they would need to do to accelerate that fast (or else their hearts would sever themselves from their chests), then it doesn't matter how fast they accelerate.

02-17-2004, 08:16 PM	#16
e-man2001 Guest Posts: n/a	Okay... Star Trek Physics just dont exist... trust me. I study physics and a whole bunch they talk about is BS. But anyways... i think they try to explain the acceleration thing with the warp bubble they make around the ship... I.E. space is warping around them... so they dont get hurt? On another note: Apletto, Phasers own blasters... how many hand-held blasters literally vaporize a person? And are accurate?? NONE! Also... Star Trek will always win, as according to TNG rules... a concentrated tachyon beam can do ANYTHING... and fixes EVERY problem But with star wars I always just let any weird question that comes into my head be explained by the force... it does everything... EVERYTHING. Seriously... Luke can be sitting at home watching TV and be all like "I wish i had some hotpockets right now.." and BAM- Hot pockets.. perfectly cooked and everything. Okay just joking with that... But, yeah, the lightsaber deflection is all in the force and how you can use it... the saber portion is just used as an extension of the Jedi. And the force is all powerful... so a jedi can do just about anything with one.

02-18-2004, 03:34 AM	#20
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	But in the movies Darth Vader blocks a blaster bolt with the palm of his hand on Bespin... and magnetic fields have little to no effect on light energy, so if they ARE magnetic fields that furthers the idea that a blaster bolt is more of a particle beam than anything... Also: Here's a question, if Stormie armor supposedly stops bullets (and that's why people use blasters), why can't it stop sticks and stones thrown by ewoks? __________________ I am very tired.