HEY NEKO TERA-SAN, LET'S TALK ABOUT SECRET OF MANA - Page 3

Mirai Gen · 12-14-2009, 01:45 AM

It's worth mentioning that for me you can take pretty much any game I otherwise enjoy and still consider it good or great in my eyes today, be it Dead Space or Super Castlevania 4 or Batman for the NES. I don't treat games better just cause they're old; it's pretty much even treatment dependent upon the enjoyment I have with them right now. I didn't play SC4 until like, two years ago, and I still totally dig it.

Nostalgia is just the tipping-factor that makes old games go from good to great, which is probably why I hold Mega Man X on a pedestal it probably doesn't deserve. And I still love SMRPG, isometric platforming and all.

Aeria · 12-14-2009, 01:48 AM

Secret of Mana is a three player action-RPG. That alone makes it amazing to me (although: why not four?) Caveat: it is completely full of glitches and typos (on one file, my main character disappeared for no reason, and I can't get him back, for example). From a gameplay perspective, the characters are all fine, and unique; from a story perspective sure they're probably lacking. However, I love the weapon system, the menu system, and even the random-dropped uber-armor system. The game ensures that you have always have something to do, and some goal to work towards. You don't HAVE to master all of the weapons, you can just pick one or two that you like, but you have the option to. Great games give you options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonCon

I can't speak for RT, but [Super Mario RPG] has plenty of flaws. The characters are largely forgettable, even for a Mario game, and wouldn't be remembered if it weren't for them being in a Mario game. The weird-ass 3D angle thing they pulled completely ruins the appearance and, worst of all, the platforming, which is the main selling point of the game. (That it's an RPG Platformer) The turn based combat would be considered mediocre at best were it not for the timing element, something that has been done far better by several games since, and wasn't really used as well as it could have been in that game. You can probably argue that I'm being unfair and judging it as compared with the more recent games that did stuff better, but I only played the game six months ago, so I don't have the rosy tint of nostalgia to make me be extra special nice to it.

Mallow, Frogfucious, Booster, Geno: if "Mario" weren't in the title, nobody would have remembered them? I'm sorry, but I don't buy that: Booster and Geno both are way too cool to be forgotten. Mario's mime acts instead of talking are priceless! Sure, Mallow is a retarded tool, but he's still a memorable retarded tool. The platforming may be a little difficult at times to handle, but it doesn't get ruined by the "weird-ass 3D angle thing". Would you rather it be two dimensional? I mean, it is way better than many actual 3D platformers out there. Judge away, and compare to new games if you like; the turn based combat isn't really anything new, but it works, and it is fun. The timing adds a little bit of skill to the game, but is sometimes difficult and isn't really required to beat the game. It makes it more interesting, without always being "If I don't time this hit I lose!" (although on occasion it can be like that). I don't know how you think the timing system could be improved: do you mean something like Legend of Dragoon where little boxes tell you when to hit the button, and what button to push? Personally, I like having to figure it out, not always getting it, and sometimes getting lucky.

You're free to not like them if you want, but I think it's pretty clear that I love both games, if for nothing else because they are fun. I want to spread that fun, so here I am attempting to defend their honor, and get more people to play them.

Edit: Batman for the NES is such a good game! It doesn't get nearly enough recognition.

Kim · 12-14-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeria

Booster

Who's he again?

What did Geno do worth remembering him for? What did Mallow do worth remembering him for? I honestly can't remember any plot points that made the actual characters interesting/cool/likable.

As for how to improve both the platforming and the timing mechanic? Please play Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga.

EDIT FOR BELOW: Oh him! Yeah, I guess he was pretty cool. I was talking more about the party members, but yeah, I'll admit he wasn't bad.

CelesJessa · 12-14-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonCon

The characters are largely forgettable,

I have to admit, I first played Super Mario RPG when I was in grade school and I NEVER forgot Booster. The whole part with him remains one of my favorite moments in gaming ever.

Mmm salty.

Mirai Gen · 12-14-2009, 02:23 AM

"Sounds...complicated. I don't know if I can muster the energy to do it!"

Plus Bowser in that entire game was pretty much comedy gold. Buuuuuuut I've got a ton more to say on that subject on the review I'm workin' on.

Quote:

What did Geno do worth remembering him for?

As I understand it, Geno's fanlove is mostly due to his silence and mystery. He arrives to fulfill a specific purpose of repairing the Star Road. He doesn't say anything or do anything really amazing, but he still generates so much interest just based on his silence. Kinda like a Mario RPG Batman sort of character, bright blue cape and all.

Bowser was the best party member in that game, hands down.

Bells · 12-14-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loyal

Are we going to be regularly calling people by their old usernames when trying to get their attention?

From time to time people call me by my old forum name, mostly when they are pissed at me or something like that.

When fifth or meister do it, it's kinda like having your mom or dad calling you by your full name when you were 5 or 6 years old... it's creepy in several levels if you think about it....

Also, when Mana games come out you guys usually point towards the SNES ones and the portable ones. But i do remember playing one in the PSX that was all sorts of weird... you build your world map, kinda like in FFT Advanced, and where you placed the new locations actually mattered.

Also, the story arcs were played like "episodes", and even though it was quite a beautifull looking game, it was just so far out there that i never came back for it.

I just can't remember it's name in full and if it really was a Part of the Mana series.

Kim · 12-14-2009, 02:32 AM

In all honesty, I'm probably being overly critical of the game. It's hard not to compare it with other games I played around the same time, and, unfortunately for SMRPG, I played Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga pretty soon after, which was more or less SMRPG but loads better in every way.

Ravashak · 12-14-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bells

Also, when Mana games come out you guys usually point towards the SNES ones and the portable ones. But i do remember playing one in the PSX that was all sorts of weird... you build your world map, kinda like in FFT Advanced, and where you placed the new locations actually mattered.

Also, the story arcs were played like "episodes", and even though it was quite a beautifull looking game, it was just so far out there that i never came back for it.

I just can't remember it's name in full and if it really was a Part of the Mana series.

Legend of Mana, some things are... different... to say the least.

Marc v4.0 · 12-14-2009, 04:37 AM

Legend of Mana is one of my favorite. Recipes for the craft system it used are still being researched by sweaty nerds ~~in my forced labor camps~~ on gamefaqs

Which is good because to get any really great weapon and armor, which you HAD to have for the "No Future" difficulty, you used to have to painstakingly hammer out 8-10 pages worth of materials into the object. Currently, the very best weapon you could possibly hope to make is still a 6 page list that takes several hours to do, not to mention collect the items, but the armors and such have been reduced to 10-40 steps depending.

Also the Weapon is to be made of wood. DiorWood.

I got SMRPG when it came out, and I do tend to give games the benefit of the doubt if they're a few generations behind. It still entertains me to this day. I'm going to start another run of SMRPG as soon as I get through with Earthbound.

Ryong · 12-14-2009, 09:44 AM

Secret of Mana is good, but I never really liked it all that much. I can't put my finger on what, exactly, but there's something lacking.

Secret of Mana 2, though, I really like and was THE first game I played 'til the end. It has some unbalance flaws on which characters to start with - each of Kevin's hits are as strong as Duran's but he hits 6 times in the time Duran hits twice - but it's very fun.

Legend of Mana was great, but had its flaws, obviously - like the placement and having to visit your house each time you complete a quest or else it doesn't get recorded on your diary thing.

Sword of Mana felt the same as the original Secret of Mana to me, which ain't a good thing in my case, since, again, there's something I feel lacking about it.

Children of Mana was...Ugh. It's practically the same gameplay from the SNES games, with a different mechanic for magic, but you're constantly replaying the same part of the story just so you can actually become stronger, since your level keeps resetting. Also, lol havok. Dawn of Mana is practically the same, but in 3D and with even more focus on replaying and abusing the havok engine.

Heroes of Mana feels to me like a prototype for Revenant Wings fused with a 4X game and then screwed it all up further.

12-14-2009, 01:45 AM	#21
Mirai Gen We are Geth. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14,032	It's worth mentioning that for me you can take pretty much any game I otherwise enjoy and still consider it good or great in my eyes today, be it Dead Space or Super Castlevania 4 or Batman for the NES. I don't treat games better just cause they're old; it's pretty much even treatment dependent upon the enjoyment I have with them right now. I didn't play SC4 until like, two years ago, and I still totally dig it. Nostalgia is just the tipping-factor that makes old games go from good to great, which is probably why I hold Mega Man X on a pedestal it probably doesn't deserve. And I still love SMRPG, isometric platforming and all. __________________

12-14-2009, 02:32 AM	#27
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	I'm a grumpy old man when it comes to games. I hate what I hate and love what I love. In all honesty, I'm probably being overly critical of the game. It's hard not to compare it with other games I played around the same time, and, unfortunately for SMRPG, I played Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga pretty soon after, which was more or less SMRPG but loads better in every way. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

12-14-2009, 04:37 AM	#29
Marc v4.0 Fight Me, Nerds Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,470	Legend of Mana is one of my favorite. Recipes for the craft system it used are still being researched by sweaty nerds ~~in my forced labor camps~~ on gamefaqs Which is good because to get any really great weapon and armor, which you HAD to have for the "No Future" difficulty, you used to have to painstakingly hammer out 8-10 pages worth of materials into the object. Currently, the very best weapon you could possibly hope to make is still a 6 page list that takes several hours to do, not to mention collect the items, but the armors and such have been reduced to 10-40 steps depending. Also the Weapon is to be made of wood. DiorWood. I got SMRPG when it came out, and I do tend to give games the benefit of the doubt if they're a few generations behind. It still entertains me to this day. I'm going to start another run of SMRPG as soon as I get through with Earthbound. __________________ Last edited by Marc v4.0; 12-14-2009 at 04:49 AM.

12-14-2009, 09:44 AM	#30
Ryong Professional Threadkiller Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 3,798	Secret of Mana is good, but I never really liked it all that much. I can't put my finger on what, exactly, but there's something lacking. Secret of Mana 2, though, I really like and was THE first game I played 'til the end. It has some unbalance flaws on which characters to start with - each of Kevin's hits are as strong as Duran's but he hits 6 times in the time Duran hits twice - but it's very fun. Legend of Mana was great, but had its flaws, obviously - like the placement and having to visit your house each time you complete a quest or else it doesn't get recorded on your diary thing. Sword of Mana felt the same as the original Secret of Mana to me, which ain't a good thing in my case, since, again, there's something I feel lacking about it. Children of Mana was...Ugh. It's practically the same gameplay from the SNES games, with a different mechanic for magic, but you're constantly replaying the same part of the story just so you can actually become stronger, since your level keeps resetting. Also, lol havok. Dawn of Mana is practically the same, but in 3D and with even more focus on replaying and abusing the havok engine. Heroes of Mana feels to me like a prototype for Revenant Wings fused with a 4X game and then screwed it all up further.