Cloud Takes On The World

[IHateMakingNames]

Actually, even eith second attack the final attack + phoenix gives Cloud the win anyway.

If you take away materia, the people he is fighting should have something taken away from them that is as important to them as Materia is to Cloud.

[The Tortured one]

I agree, thats why its rather pointless to cross combat systems, since there really is no way of balancing them.

The best I can come up with is simply comparing them from a fluff perspective. In that case both Cloud and Squall have had military training, both use exotic weapondry. Cloud has been genetically enhanced, but squall actually finished his training and graduated.

i

[IHateMakingNames]

Battle mechanics wise Cloud has the advantage over everyone really.

Character wise (Like what you just did) is probably a better way of going around this.

Some one said Crono can beat Cloud because he beat Lovas. Lovas was an alien parasite that went from planet to planet draining them. Jenova was an alien parasite that traveled from planet to planet while draining them. They were both basically the same thing. However, Cloud defeated Jenova and Sephiroth (Who was capable of summoning planet destroying meteors).

And I think the genetic altering Cloud recieved out does the training Squall got. The SEED training never seemed like much to me (And the school Squall came from wasn't even one of the stronger ones).

[Priest4hire]

Why is it always "guy A could beat guy B in a fight!" Without a frame of reference any comparison in combat is futile anyway. Why not even out the battlefield. In other words: Chess. Cloud vs. anyone in a game of chess. Timed of course.

Or twister could be cool, especially if it involved the fairer sex. Or how about a grudge match on Iron Chef? Better than them standing out there and beating on each other like primates or 2001 extra rejects.

[IHateMakingNames]

Chess - (Edit) Cloud may stand a chance. That Condor Tower mini-game took some planning (If you wanted to save money/were poor), so he might be good at chess.

Twister - Since he carries that gaint sword everywhere, his muscles are probably well toned, so I doubt he is very flexible. He again loses.

Iron Chef - Geneticaly altered army guy who later is a merc. I doubt he cooked much. Loses once more.

Edit - Besides fighting and looking pretty in a dress, Cloud can't do much else.

[Fifthfiend]

v. Tidus

Mechanics: Tidus wins for all the reasons Auron wins in the previous Auron vs. Cloud thread, since all characters have the same abilities available to them.

Scripted: Melanie "Tidus" Griffith loses on account of being the only FF hero wussier than "Couldn't hack it as a SOLDIER, so I stole my dead friend's uniform and started playing make-believe" Cloud.

v. Kain

Mechanics: Kain wins because cross-class training as a Ninja is sweet.

Scripted: A draw because both end up mind-controlled by a villain (Yeah, so Cloud got dunked in the Lifestream, weak-willed is weak-willed).

v. Locke

Mechanics: Locke wins because he can Steal and has skills that are permanently learned, and Life 3 can negate the (admittedly formidable) effects of an Omnislash. Quick allows him to make two moves of any nature per round, giving him an immense advantage.

Scripted: Locke because he is a sneaky clever bastard with pluck and charm, and those guys always win this sort of thing.

----

Special Cloud Variety Hour round:

Risk: Wins against anybody from FFX due to their total lack of any frame of reference for the concept of geopolitical strategy.

Drinking contest: Draw, because Cloud is a mean drunk* and would pick a fight before any contest ever finished.

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy: Win. Cloud was straight working that dress, also, numerous equipment slots and Materia options, brother has much more experience accessorizing.

Mackin' the honeys: Loses because the sword is clearly overcompensation, also he let his last girlfriend die.

*purely supposition, but come on, dude had issues

[IHateMakingNames]

v. Kain

Mechanics: Cloud. Kain can't throw, despite what Captain SNES says. And if he jumps, Cloud will just wait till Kain lands. Once he does, he won't kill Cloud in a hit, then KotR and Kain dies. Even if he did cross class, he still loses through mechanics.

Scripted: Cloud. Cloud may have been mind controled, but no where near the level Kain was. And Cloud at least got cured for a reason and it made a little sense, Kain just went to being good for the hell of it. Also, Kain is just to plain pathetic to win scripted fights (I've given my views on Kain many times already, I'm sure you've seen it before).

v. Locke

Mechanics: Cloud. Reaons being, same as every other character not in FFX. And how does Life 3 negate Omnislash?

[Krylo]

Life 3 = autolife. You die and come back immediately... I forget whether you come back with full hp or not, though.

Using quick, Locke could autolife into infinity while still hammering Cloud with attacks. Also, Locke is one of two FFVI characters you can make completely and irrevocably invincible through use of the paladin shield, circlet of thorns, and some other EQ I can't remember right now... the other being Setzer.

[IHateMakingNames]

For FFVI characters (Battle mechanics wise) then, it depends on who goes first. Both can have haste from the begining, so you can't say one will be faster then the other. Life 3 is basically final attack + pheonix.

Mackin' the honeys: Cloud got two chicks lovin him without trying (And some guys...), he wins. And symbolism, not compensation (If it's compensation, almost all FF heroes are doing it then).

[Fifthfiend]

Krylo -- precisely. Even barring perfect equipment, Quick allows him to Life3 indefinitely, allowing him to steal until Cloud's equipment is gone, leaving him powerless. (edit) Yes, both can have Haste, but Quick is something else -- it allows for 2 simultaneous attacks of any kind each time a character's turn comes up.

I've given my views on Kain many times already, I'm sure you've seen it before

Yes, and I have a natural tendency towards contrariness. Besides - Kain was controlled by a respectable villain (my view is that Kain technically was under the power of Zeromus, and you just can't fuck with the embodiment of Hatred itself) instead of a weird goofy bastard like Sephiroth. Also, Kain de-programmed himself by an act of pure will, whereas Cloud was saved by hippie bullcrap.

...

In fact, I'm changing my earlier call.

Scriped v. Kain: Kain wins, because hippie bullcrap always loses.

(edit)Re: Mackin' the honeys - Cloud had two girls but never made a move on either because of his lame personal issues, making him the Wussy Emo Boy of the FF Multiverse. Wussy Emo Boy + Hippie Bullcrap = the perfect storm of losernessity.