Pokemon Umbral Discussion 37: You Don't Want To Enter This Thread

[Astral Harmony]

I'm not talking about any major buffing to Trainer Attacks. Their existence is based solely on simple logic. I figured that if someone's Pokemon beat someone or something within an inch of its life, it only made sense that the Trainer himself had a weapon, like a pistol or length of pipe or something similar, to deal the final blow and do away with the annoyance of having to sit out the enemy's phase and be attacked just so they can use a Pokemon's action the next turn in order to beat someone who, more or less, was only alive because the Trainer's Pokemon's attacks just couldn't do one or two hitpoints worth of damage more the last turn.

One of the things I might think of doing is taking the Trainer Attacks and making them my business. Like, at the end of the Watchmen Phase, I take control of the Trainer Attacks and aim them at opponents that only have a sliver of health left just to get them out of the battle. But the last thing I want to do is take control of PCs.

I still approve of Sophia's Shock Trooper skill, although I will point out that there's no such thing as negative Rage. Then I'd have to do something silly like create a new status effect called Demoralized in which the unit just doesn't feel up to scrappin' anymore and strolls away to buy a churro or some shit.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

One of the things I might think of doing is taking the Trainer Attacks and making them my business. Like, at the end of the Watchmen Phase, I take control of the Trainer Attacks and aim them at opponents that only have a sliver of health left just to get them out of the battle. But the last thing I want to do is take control of PCs.

Well, if it meant not having to guess who's about to die...

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I still approve of Sophia's Shock Trooper skill, although I will point out that there's no such thing as negative Rage. Then I'd have to do something silly like create a new status effect called Demoralized in which the unit just doesn't feel up to scrappin' anymore and strolls away to buy a churro or some shit.

Yeah, 's cool. No negative Rage.

Though, speaking of status effects...

See, I've been thinking. There's one status effect from the games that is completely useless in this battle system. Infatuation.

So I, considering there are already buffed up versions of a couple of status effects (Plasmaburn, Deep Freeze, and Bad Poison), I figured I'd come up with a buffed up Infatuation.

Love (Status effect, mental)
The affected foe will not attack the target they are in Love with while this status is in effect.

Simple, eh? And it can't possibly be overpowered because it still only one enemy that won't be attacking one ally. It would probably work best with Signature Techniques and shit that inflict one enemy with Love on several allies at the same time, or inflict a few foes with Love on a few allies.

And of course, because this is Pokemon Umbral and not a kid's game (we have lesbians), it doesn't actually have to be restricted to the opposite gender. Could work on targets of the same sex and even genderless.

And OH GODDAMNIT I JUST CAME UP WITH A WAY TO MAKE AN INSTANT HAREM FUCK

Anyway, yeah, I decided to give AB another proverbial bullet to shoot us in the head with.

On a similar note, does Plasmaburn reduce the target's attack by 50% like Burn does?

I've been thinking about Paralysis too. I mean, on one hand 25% chance that one target won't attack isn't much in this RP. On the other, Thunder Wave is about the most common move there is. Still, no one ever uses it. So I'll start thinking about what to do with Paralysis.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

This.

This is perfect!

Not only because you've incorporated my Technique idea for Charlotte (except it should be Kick the Puppy), but because it gives us so much more that we can do.

Though, it's going to be tricky for Pierce. I mean, Charlotte can abuse her pokemon to inspire them, Renny can give them some verbal encouragement. Except if Pierce tries to encourage his pokemon, it's instantly gay. And he won't abuse them either.

Still, I'll come up with something.

[Geminex]

Goddammit, guys. Stop posting so much!

Sophie's ok, actually. I mean, sure. Enemies lose rage when they get attacked by her. It's plausible, and not too strong.
Though lemme clarify: Whenever a unit attacks, or gets attacked, they gain rage. Would Sophie's ability just deduct rage as well, cancelling out (more or less), or would it nullify the enemy's rage gain and then subtract rage? The latter might be ok as well, but it's situational...

Like, assume she's attacking an unfortunate enemy Slayer. Said Slayer gets 10 rage from getting attacked, normally, while Sophia deducts 10 rage from him through her attack. So, did you envision it so that the Slayer ends up with 0 rage? Or -10?

Re: Trainer attacks.
I really object to making them more powerful. Trainers already have more defensive and, arguably, more offensive power than Slayers. Why would you buff them even more? It's bad enough that the attack generates rage.
In fact, do they even generate rage? Cause the upgrade sheet says:

Attack is fairly weak and generates no Rage.

So, what is this? Do they, or do they not? And in the former case, rescind that shit or give pokebrids and slayers something comparable.

I was fine with trainer attacks when they were still being thematic, but if you're gonna let them have anything more than a minor effect on combat, it can't come for free! And looking at the upgrade schedule, it seems fairly balanced for the next few levels. Maybe when you go Breeder level 2 or 3 but until then... I'd be dismayed to find trainers getting this for free.

And why're you so opposed to my idea? It's more elegant than the combined-action thing you guys are advocating. Much simpler, certainly. And it allows every combination of classes, at equal power.

And Drac, I was thinking of it less as Pierce using his Slayer action to EMPOWER TYRANITAR THROUGH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP and more like:
Tyranitar, Earthquake!
Metagross, Earthquake!
*gets out Titanic fist*
Hammertime, motherfuckers!

In short, the primary class attacks, the secondary class(es) support it. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I'm thinking that it either acts as a basic attack-strength increase, gives extra Stab, gives extra status effects, or a combination of the three.

[Menarker]

Glad to know that my advice about Mismagius seems to have been appreciated. ^^

Originally Posted by Geminex

In short, the primary class attacks, the secondary class(es) support it. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I'm thinking that it either acts as a basic attack-strength increase, gives extra Stab, gives extra status effects, or a combination of the three.

I would probably object to this simply because Renny as I'm building him is not primarily a pokemon trainer later on if we judge using upgrade charts, but he'd use all his abilities, directly fighting or pokemon fighting as much as feasible.

If anything, my build is going to be (in no particular order of levels and subject to change):
Pokemon Breeder 1 (6 levels of Pokemon Trainer)
Pokebrid 1 (1 level of Pokebrid)
Overblade 3 (8 levels of Slayer)

If anything, you could say that as Renny is growing up, he is hiding behind his pokemons less and less (out of actually having the ability to contribute on his own merits) but still trust them to defend him and his loved ones. And no, I'm not having him go Half-Demon at all. I'll leave that to Pierce/Impact and anyone else.

Meh. I just don't like it. Maybe I just prefer being able to fight at the same time as my pokemon, is that so wrong?

Not wrong at all! I totally want to have Renny do that myself.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

Awesome. ^^ However, trying to think what sort of effect Renny cheering up his pokemon might have, especially if it only targets his pokemon and its effect should be "minor". I'd be hesitant to have it do anything that would duplicate an effect of a move such as Safeguard or Haze (even if its single-target).

And before any of you say it... no, Renny the "Love Freak" is not going to be using the improved infatuation, Love! He doesn't believe that bewitchment equals real love or compassion!

EDIT: Drac, maybe think less about how Pierce (or anyone else) would respond to his pokemons, but how they specifically trained them? For example, I could imagine that Charlotte with her pack of hound-dogs could have "trained" them to chase and pursue their targets, leading her targets running away toward a designated location... like in her waiting hands. In-game, that could translate to her "Trainer Tactic" being to have her pokemons chase and scare foes into moving to a different location, thus altering the enemy formation, making it better for us to use AOE attacks on them.

Someone who train several bird pokemons could train them to constantly divebomb and swoop at a particular target sequentially, thus hampering their ability to aim properly. In game, this can translate to an accuracy drop on the foe's part.

I guess with Renny, Togekiss with his blessed charm, Swampert's natural vitality, Mollesk heavy armor, Umbreon's resilient defense, Magnezone's steel body and Shaymin's natural purity could all translate to a sort of insight to resisting status conditions or something like that...

[Astral Harmony]

About Love: I always kind of figured that Domination was the buffed up form of Infatuation. But I suppose we could do some lovey dovey crap as well.

About a Harem: Pierce can not use Love to make women sleep with him. The same with Impact's domination powers.

However, I will allow you to have funny dreams about catching women as Pokemon and making them use moves for your own twisted desires...

Pierce: "Here it comes! Chizuru, use Swallow!"
Chizuru: *uses Crunch instead*
Pierce: "Critical...hit. It's super...effective..." *passes out*
*Pierce wakes up*
Pierce: "Maybe she'll do what I say if I collect some gym badges."

Moving right along, now...

About Plasmaburn: Plasmaburn was kind of a one-time thing. Cerulean Wildfire's one ace in the hole, if you will. It may see a return (actually, I'm damn certain of it), and yes, it does reduce attack by 50%.

About Trainer Action: Trainer Attack will now hence be referred to as Trainer Action, and don't be concerned if you can't come up with any for the Trainer him/herself. You could always have your love interest do something.

About PC Battle Masters: I agree that all three units should attack, so let's work on something together. Our main concern is Geminex. No, I'm not being insulting for once in my life, he does a good job in promoting balance.

I think the best way to make it happen is to reserve it only for PCs who...oh, have five ranks in both Trainer and Slayer. We'll start off from that and work our way to a better suggestion.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

I would probably object to this simply because Renny as I'm building him is not primarily a pokemon trainer later on if we judge using upgrade charts, but he'd use all his abilities, directly fighting or pokemon fighting as much as feasible.

If anything, my build is going to be (in no particular order of levels and subject to change):
Pokemon Breeder 1 (6 levels of Pokemon Trainer)
Pokebrid 1 (1 level of Pokebrid)
Overblade 3 (8 levels of Slayer)

... What, seriously?

Originally Posted by Menarker

Awesome. ^^ However, trying to think what sort of effect Renny cheering up his pokemon might have, especially if it only targets his pokemon and its effect should be "minor". I'd be hesitant to have it do anything that would duplicate an effect of a move such as Safeguard or Haze (even if its single-target).

Minor stat boost, perhaps some healing?

Originally Posted by Menarker

And before any of you say it... no, Renny the "Love Freak" is not going to be using the improved infatuation, Love! He doesn't believe that bewitchment equals real love or compassion!

But I wonder how many people will use it on Renny, hmm?

Originally Posted by Menarker

EDIT: Drac, maybe think less about how Pierce (or anyone else) would respond to his pokemons, but how they specifically trained them? For example, I could imagine that Charlotte with her pack of hound-dogs could have "trained" them to chase and pursue their targets, leading her targets running away toward a designated location... like in her waiting hands. In-game, that could translate to her "Trainer Tactic" being to have her pokemons chase and scare foes into moving to a different location, thus altering the enemy formation, making it better for us to use AOE attacks on them.

Hmmm... Maybe Pierce could tell his pokemon to "combine" their attacks, adding a little extra oomph to each pokemon's attack.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

About Love: I always kind of figured that Domination was the buffed up form of Infatuation. But I suppose we could do some lovey dovey crap as well

Domination... doesn't really make sense like that. One thing is making an opponent get a hard-on for you. Another thing entirely is breaking their will utterly through means that don't necessarily include seduction.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

About a Harem: Pierce can not use Love to make women sleep with him. The same with Impact's domination powers.

I'll admit, the thought did cross my mind. But I would never cheat like that. No, when I get my harem (note: when), it'll be perfectly legitimate.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

However, I will allow you to have funny dreams about catching women as Pokemon and making them use moves for your own twisted desires...

Pierce: "Here it comes! Chizuru, use Swallow!"
Chizuru: *uses Crunch instead*
Pierce: "Critical...hit. It's super...effective..." *passes out*
*Pierce wakes up*
Pierce: "Maybe she'll do what I say if I collect some gym badges."

Pierce is already going to have those, actually.

Y'know, minus the Crunching.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

About Trainer Action: Trainer Attack will now hence be referred to as Trainer Action, and don't be concerned if you can't come up with any for the Trainer him/herself. You could always have your love interest do something.

Hmmmmm...

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

About PC Battle Masters: I agree that all three units should attack, so let's work on something together. Our main concern is Geminex. No, I'm not being insulting for once in my life, he does a good job in promoting balance.

I think the best way to make it happen is to reserve it only for PCs who...oh, have five ranks in both Trainer and Slayer. We'll start off from that and work our way to a better suggestion.

What does this mean, exactly? That until someone has five ranks in Slayer and Trainer they have to function like Geminex's suggestion, and after they can function the way Battle Masters do now?

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

*Renny's upgrade List*

... What, seriously?

Yes, seriously. Is there something you think is a problem tactically? Or you just shocked that all along you thought Renny would be a complete Pokemon Breeder and that turned out to be totally false? ^,^

But I wonder how many people will use it on Renny, hmm?

I admit, there is something to that line of thought that is 3 parts intriguing, 2 parts worrisome and 5 parts hardcore.

About PC Battle Masters: I agree that all three units should attack, so let's work on something together. Our main concern is Geminex. No, I'm not being insulting for once in my life, he does a good job in promoting balance.

What does this mean, exactly? That until someone has five ranks in Slayer and Trainer they have to function like Geminex's suggestion, and after they can function the way Battle Masters do now?

I'm confused too. Does this imply that those who hit level 5 trainer or slayers effectively become Shock Troopers and the Battle Master and both pokemons can attack at the same time? Or am I misunderstanding something? Although, I'd feel that waiting until level 10 at earliest is a bit late, since it taken a long time to reach this point and we're only at level 4. I'd probably push for 4, maybe 3 levels of Slayer and Trainer.

Hmmm... I need a new title for my triple classing. :3 Although AB did suggest Red Mage as in "Renny the Red Mage" quite a long time ago as a joke due to the immense diversity that is similar to our infamous 8bit example of Red Mage. (Not actually thinking that seriously yet.)

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

Yes, seriously. Is there something you think is a problem tactically? Or you just shocked that all along you thought Renny would be a complete Pokemon Breeder and that turned out to be totally false? ^,^

No.

Anyway, who am I to complain? I need to discuss this with Geminex, but I may just have Pierce go Slayer 1 and Full Demon 2.

No, that would not mean Renny will eventually be a better fighter than Pierce.

[Menarker]

Adding one rank of pokebrid turns a War God/dess into a Warmonger?

Let's see the rankings so far...

Normal Classes:
Pokemon Trainer and Slayer makes you a Battle Master. (Tons of examples)
Pokemon Trainer and Pokebrid makes you a Legion Mage. (Rachel and Whitney)
Pokebrid and Slayer makes you a Pokesoldier. (Melanie.)

Slayer and Snagger makes you a Battle Rogue (AB proposed NPC)

No demon classes exist yet ingame except for the Kimonos who still count as Battle Masters.
No snagger classes exist yet ingame.

Upgraded Classes:

Pokemon Breeders and Overblades become War God/dess (Upgraded Battle Master)
Devas and Pokemon Breeders become ???. (No examples. Upgraded form of Legion Mage)
Devas and Overblades become ???. (Upgraded form of Pokesoldier)

No one has triple classed yet with either the basic classes or the upgraded classes.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

Adding one rank of pokebrid turns a War God/dess into a Warmonger?

Yes.

Let's see the rankings so far...

Originally Posted by Menarker

Normal Classes:
Pokemon Trainer and Slayer makes you a Battle Master. (Tons of examples)
Pokemon Trainer and Pokebrid makes you a Legion Mage. (Rachel and Whitney)
Pokebrid and Slayer makes you a ???. (No one has become a Slayer and Pokebrid yet.)

No demon classes exist yet ingame except for the Kimonos who still count as Battle Masters.
No snagger classes exist yet ingame.

Upgraded Classes:

Pokemon Breeders and Overblades become War God/dess (Upgraded Battle Master)
Devas and Overblades become Pokesoldiers. (Upgraded form of ???)
Devas and Pokebrids become ???. (No examples. Upgraded form of Legion Mage)

Actually, Melanie's a Slayer/Pokebrid, not Overblade/Deva. So what we don't know is what Deva/Overblades are called. Slayer/Pokebrids are Pokesoldiers.

Also, I assume when you say Devas and Pokebrids you mean Devas and Breeders.

Anyway, remember when AB first posted the characters that would make up the Crosswald Crusaders? One of them was a Battle Rogue (Slayer/Snagger).

Originally Posted by Menarker

No one has opted for triple classing yet with either the basic classes or the upgraded classes.

What's your point?