Anti-Racism

[Pure Liquid Awesome]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/04/sc...ref=rss_latest

What do you think about schools being FORCED to add more, or less, of a certain race in order to get the school's population to more accurately reflect the relative populations of the region? If a school has a disproportionate quantity of white kids, or Chinese kids, then they will be shipped to other schools, or trucked in FROM other schools, to "promote equality".

What's wrong with going to the school nearest you?

The whole concept goes deeper than schools, mind you... it's about being anti-racist to the point where you are still treating people differently based on their skin color or ethnic background, just from a different direction.

If this topic is inappropriate, let me know, but it didn't seem to taboo.

[bass_virus]

I think that all these race laws, like hate crimes and trucking other races and religions actually promotes the idea that people of different races are different. I mean you punch a white guy, you pay a fine, but if you punch a black guy it's a hate crime and your ass ends up in jail, i mean how is that justice?

[notasfatasmike]

Originally Posted by Pure Liquid Awesome

The whole concept goes deeper than schools, mind you... it's about being anti-racist to the point where you are still treating people differently based on their skin color or ethnic background, just from a different direction.

I think this is the main issue here. I personally feel that affirmative action programs are still necessary in many cases, because the legacy of racism and discrimination in the United States has created a long-standing socioeconomic inequality between various races, that, sadly, has not yet gone away. The abolition of segregation and other racially-based discrimination didn't make racism disappear, and it certainly didn't immediately place most of the people who suffered under this legislation in the position of being able to truly "get ahead" in life. (I'm aware that this brings in all sorts of points that are beyond the scope of this post, such as poverty and capitalism, but I'm going to stick with the issue at hand.) Hence some sort of program is necessary to attempt to rectify the remaining inequality.

But then you get cases like this, where the issue at hand (as far as I could tell from the article) is not intended to help rectify this inequality, but rather to create a "diverse environment" in the school districts involved. And if that's the case, I have to question the entire point. It assumes that just because people are of different races, they will have diverse viewpoints and traditions, which is, frankly, bunk.

My high school was massively, extremely white. I did, however, have a number of friends who were Asian. (Korean, if you would like to get very specific about it.) But here's the thing: their mannerisms, worldviews and tradition were more or less indistinguishable from anyone else in my friend group...because they had been adopted by Americans. So to claim that my friend group was "diverse" is disingenuous, because there are much, MUCH stronger forces of socialization than race.

I don't know. The whole idea of "OMG we have to create a learning environment where a lot of races are represented or else we will create a whole bunch of racists!!!!1!1!11exclamationpoint" is based on the idea that different race=different worldview, and it doesn't. So things like this bug me, while affirmative action doesn't. Which could be seen as confusing, I suppose.

[The_Editable_Wiki]

Social equality odes not exist. It hasn't, and probally never will.

IMHO, schools should teach history as it was.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

I (unsurprisingly) side with bass_virus.

And, The_Editable_Wiki, what does your second paragraph have to do with ANYTHING?

[Bells]

seeing the huge amount of necromantic posts today i would say that he is just trying to up his post count...

[The_Editable_Wiki]

Originally Posted by Roy_D_Mylote

And, The_Editable_Wiki, what does your second paragraph have to do with ANYTHING?

Just that schools shouldn't teach history with any sort of 'sweetening' toward the representation of races in a given circumstance.

Also Bellsouth Minion, I did not know how old the discussions were, I saw they were on page one, and that I'd like to add my word to it.

[Tydeus]

Hah! Necromantic posts! I'm totally stealing that, Bellsouth.

Meanwhile, back in the land of Topic...

I agree with notasfat that race != diversity of thought. I mean, what are we really talking about when we say "race" or "racial diversity"? We're using race as a proxy to talk about class, because Hispanic and black populations in the US are largely poor. So, if you want actual diversity of thought, bus in the poor kids, regardless of race, because that's what unites the culture. In fact, class is really the biggest determinant of what someone will view as social norms, and what culture they will subscribe to.

But, you know, in strict honesty, poor kids are probably not going to be the best influence on any school. To the point that I think that hardly anyone's going to gain from such a program, except for the few smart poor kids. To me, seems better to simply bus them in by their own choice/the choice of their parents, because they've proven that they're smart and/or hardworking. It seems ineffective -- indeed, counter-productive -- to try to make people's education more well-rounded by busing in poor kids in droves to establish diversity in thought, all while under the pointless guise of racial diversity.

And, frankly, at my all-white private school (not all-white by regulation, but because Oregon is a very white state, and it was about $20,000 a year [I got financial aid, personally. Just so everyone knows, I'm not rich, and I've been kind of poor, so, when I riff on the poor as a group, I only say it because statsically speaking, it's true]), it was easier to be all egalitarian and color-blind. The more experience I've had with black people, the harder it is for me to not become racist. I have to consciously remind myself that really it's just a class-issue, and that lots of African Americans (as opposed to black folks elsewhere in the world) happen to be poor, and therefore subscribe to a culture that makes me want to puke, and then throw that puke at the people who're pissing me off. Because I hate them. So very, very much. *seethe*

But, yes, really, race is just a proxy for class in the US, which is probably a pretty unhealthy thing, and undoubtedly contributes to racism in America, not to mention a lack of honest dialogue about the poor in America, and what to do about American poverty. Race just obscures the facts.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Bellsouth Minion

seeing the huge amount of necromantic posts today i would say that he is just trying to up his post count...

Well, it's not like he's been outright spammy or anything.

We've looked at his doings, and have decided to think of him as being very enthusiastic about joining our little forum. And there ain't nothing wrong with that.

And as noted, it's hardly thread necromancy if it was on the first page.

[Sesshoumaru]

Wow, I'm actually agreeing with Tydeus about most of his points (someone better check to see if Hell is frozen over). Race is simply a veil over a much more important and deeply rooted problem. People point to statistics that show that a higher percentage of the black are in prison than whites and say its racism, but if you controll for things like family situation (most importanly whether or not a father is present) the numbers are pretty much even across the board. Unfortunately, as it has been previously mentioned, its going to take a lot effort by a lot of people to solve.