"Hurtful Everyday Language And Common Vernacular" or "Retarded, N-Word"

[Seil]

So a friend on Facebook recently linked this picture:



It's a picture of a little girl holding up a sign stating that she doesn't like others using the word "retarded," and that she's beautiful on the inside. Which is fine, and true. This girl is rad.

I didn't take issue with any of it. I do like comedians, though, and I decided to post



Which was insensitive in context, I know, and led to an discussion about how "Retard" was a proper medical term (Mental Retardation) that is used as an insult.



Now, these two acts (and I realize as I post this that this discussion will follow these two acts instead of western society as a whole) aren't descriptive of Western society as a whole, so here's some music:

[Marc v4.0]

Might be safer if we pack up our ten foot polls

[Seil]

Also, we already talked about this ages ago.

[Kim]

Like, I really dunno why people have problems with not using language that is primarily used to hurt people who are already mistreated.

If the slur applies to you then you can try and reclaim it like I try with slut and dyke, but you don't really get to use slurs that hurt groups of people you don't belong to. It's just shitty and hurtful.

Like, not using language like that is really the most basic form of respect and if you choose to use it then what you are saying is that you do not respect that group of people.

[Red Mage Black]

What does "reclaiming" words really do and how are you "reclaiming" them considering they were made by people using them hurtfully anyway? Reclaiming assumes the terms were never hurtful in the first place. Bitch was always meant for female dogs. Dyke... which I never understood how it came to mean what it does today... was for something like a dam. Just like faggot was a pile of sticks and nigger was meant to mean 'ignorant person'. I don't understand how half the words that are used 'as' hurtful were ever converted to mean such things as they don't even relate to the subjects they're intended to be used against.

I'm not suddenly going to get crucified for actually typing out the words, am I?

I also don't see the point in saying, "We can use it, but you can't," because I feel it runs counterproductive to the result you want to see. Which is, "People not using them at all." Saying something is alright for one set of people to do, but not another is completely hypocritical.

[Seil]

It's easy to avoid the issue and say that language should change to accommodate, but it's easier still for assholes to use a word inappropriately.

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Red Mage Black

What does "reclaiming" words really do and how are you "reclaiming" them considering they were made by people using them hurtfully anyway?

I've always viewed "Reclamation" as a concept to be an after-the fact explanation for something Black folks had always been doing, and or just white people continuing not to "get" shit, then doing it themselves(I.e. Appropriation)

Reclaiming assumes the terms were never hurtful in the first place.

"Reclaiming" as I've understood it is all about the negative connotations in that it's flipping it back to the majority. Essentially Staking one's identity in their own community and outsider status within "maintstream" society. 'Fuck you for saying I don't belong, I don't want to, you suck. I'l do my own thing with blackjack and hookers"

Bitch was always meant for female dogs. Dyke... which I never understood how it came to mean what it does today... was for something like a dam. Just like faggot was a pile of sticks and nigger was meant to mean 'ignorant person'.

Well actually nigger comes from the various Romance languages term for "Black"(Noir, negro, negre, Niger) as well, as, you know, the actual places named Niger and Nigeria(which were named as such because of previous Latin-rooted terms for "black)

I don't understand how half the words that are used 'as' hurtful were ever converted to mean such things as they don't even relate to the subjects they're intended to be used against.

They're about the social dynamics. Words mean nothing outside of context within society as a whole. The words are used in conjunction and as part of major oppression within society and thus are negative.

I'm not suddenly going to get crucified for actually typing out the words, am I?

"Crucified"? No, some people may say some general purpose mean things to you, but that's life, it happens all the time, to everyone, sometimes for no reason. Learning to move past it and focus on what's important is a part of life and growing up.

I also don't see the point in saying, "We can use it, but you can't," because I feel it runs counterproductive to the result you want to see
Which is, "People not using them at all."

The result people want to see is "Not being treated like shit" Which includes but is not limited "People treating me the way I would like to be treated within reasonable social norms" I.e. "As long as it doesn't hurt you, don't hurt me" A.K.A. The Golden Motherfucking Rule.

Saying something is alright for one set of people to do, but not another is completely hypocritical.

"To everything a season"
It's called nuance, kid. Moral Absolutes is how we got here in the first place.

[Token]

Originally Posted by Red Mage Black

What does "reclaiming" words really do and how are you "reclaiming" them considering they were made by people using them hurtfully anyway? Reclaiming assumes the terms were never hurtful in the first place. Bitch was always meant for female dogs. Dyke... which I never understood how it came to mean what it does today... was for something like a dam. Just like faggot was a pile of sticks and nigger was meant to mean 'ignorant person'. I don't understand how half the words that are used 'as' hurtful were ever converted to mean such things as they don't even relate to the subjects they're intended to be used against.

I'm not suddenly going to get crucified for actually typing out the words, am I?

I also don't see the point in saying, "We can use it, but you can't," because I feel it runs counterproductive to the result you want to see. Which is, "People not using them at all." Saying something is alright for one set of people to do, but not another is completely hypocritical.

BUT Y IS IT NO OKAY FOR ME A WHITE TO CALL PEOPLE NIGGER??????

MALCOM TEN DIDNT DIE FOR THIS

EVERYONE KNOWS NIGGER JUST MEANS IGNORANT PERSON
NOT LIKE THATS A BULLSHIT EXCUSE MADE TO "JUSTIFY" BILLY-BOB CRACKAFACE TO KEEP SAYING IT

[Nikose Tyris]

Queer is a slur. Queer is also the umbrella term for everyone who is not a Cishet. I can refer to myself as queer, I have that right, because I am not a cishet. I do not have the right to refer to Kim with that word. I prefer not to use the word in general though, knowing that some (many) hold the term as abusive, insulting, or dehumanizing.

Take that logic, and insert -any other word-. It summarizes the three general questions of if a term should be used. Are you, the speaker, a person who has been subjected to the term? Is the term used in an accurate yet derogatory manner against you - i.e. racial epithets or references to physical impairments? Are you willing to risk making someone else uncomfortable from memories and/or insulted by your use of said slur?

The General White Populous has nothing to reclaim. (Ashkenazi Jewish, Irish, etc do have claims - but only for terminology and treatment used against them. Also, holy shit do Ashkenazi jews have claim) The Hetero/Allosexual populace likewise have no reason to use slurs.

I picked Queer specifically in my example because it's one of the more gray area ones; Some people don't consider it a slur at all, and just a broadly known umbrella term. (MOGII is getting popular lately, and it's a bit more fun to say anyway. Plus it saves on the whole LGBTQI2AA+ recitation).


I have been that asshole, and I apologize. I do not want to be that asshole anymore. I do my best not to fuck up and be that asshole. Don't be that asshole yourself.

Edit: My wife is Mizrahi Jewish Heritage, and was the person who told me about Ashkenazi Jewish receiving similar treatment to Mizrahi jewish. I wanted to cite my source on that, since I am otherwise unfamiliar with the community and am repeating, quite possibly, out of bounds.

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Token

BUT Y IS IT NO OKAY FOR ME A WHITE TO CALL PEOPLE NIGGER??????

ML2K DIDNT DIE FOR THIS

EVERYONE KNOWS NIGGER JUST MEANS IGNORANT PERSON
NOT LIKE THATS A BULLSHIT EXCUSE MADE TO "JUSTIFY" BILLY-BOB CRACKAFACE TO KEEP SAYING IT

Fixed that for you.