The Very Big Final Fantasy XIII Thread

[Bells]

As predicted, as soon as FF13 came out, Youtube got filled with "Let's play" videos and similar stuff.

Sure the game is in Japanese and only a very few handfull of people translate stuff while they play, but the videos are out there.

Anybody happened to catch up with those? What are your impressions of the game in motion?

[ZAKtheGeek]

Wow, really? I guess it is officially the future now.

[Regulus Tera]

I hate all the animations. They seem too floaty. Attacks need more weight.
The storyline seems retarded so far. There are a lot of coinkydinkies and stuff happens just for the sake of it. I cannot decide whether Hope or Vanille is the most annoying, however.
The music is awful apart from the main battle and boss battle themes.
The two-hour long tutorial is... wow. I just hope the difficulty ramps up soon because it seems to be the slowest and easiest Final Fantasy in a while.
Also, every single fucking stream I've watched has the camera going all figure-skating at the slightest touch. I cannot say whether this is the player's fault or the game's.

I need some cheese for my whine. So far it's everything I thought it was going to be.

EDIT: I especially hate battle transitions. It seems like such a step backwards from FFXII in how you have to go to a different screen despite having every enemy visible on the world map. They break the flow of the game, look corny, and there's absolutely no reason they couldn't have been done Chrono Trigger style.

[Bells]

well, the transition they tried to explain, if i'm not mistaken it was because of memory issues or something on that area... i do recall hearing a technical explanation for that.

I felt everything i saw so far, to be a tad Linear. Like FFX, i remember some criticism for that.

But the animations... i dunno, not a big gripe about it.

The characters on the other hand, they are your typical Stereotype. But i wouldn't judge them yet. It's hard to call Vanille "Yuffie 2.0" right now.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaPwE3CNla0

Odin Fight, no Spoilers. I dunno, felt a lot like "Classic" FF Battle system, but with just one character and Dynamic "Job change". 3 minutes isn't much of a drag for a Boss fight...

[Regulus Tera]

well, the transition they tried to explain, if i'm not mistaken it was because of memory issues or something on that area... i do recall hearing a technical explanation for that.

Also, FFXII did it before.

I felt everything i saw so far, to be a tad Linear. Like FFX, i remember some criticism for that.

I think you've nailed my complaints. It's like FFX-3. I hated FFX.

I do have to say I like the fast pace of the battles and how there's shit going on everywhere. If only the camera weren't so fucking spastic...

[Bells]

Also, just to notice, there is a British dude doing a Full walktrough with comments on Youtube uploading it as he goes, right now.

Things to notice

1- He speaks some japanese, so he translates a ton of stuff
2- He seems to not know a lot about FF13, he didn't know who Vanille and Hope were. Also... found FF6 to be Boring and FF9 to be crap.... so be aware.

Here it goes. Part 1, there are 19 out now (so, about 2 hours of Gameplay)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STwQ7wkXUFc&feature=channel

[bluestarultor]

Also, FFXII did it before.


The PS3 is still a piece of hardware, you know. Everything has limits. Everything it does takes memory. The thing only has half a Gig of RAM, and half of that is devoted exclusively to graphics. That's like Win98 with a Fatal1ty video card.

Also, 12 didn't have such large environments with so much going on in them, from what I've seen to compare. True, the playable area might be roughly the same, but 12 didn't render out as far outside of it. From a programmer's standpoint, the thing is more like Oblivion than FF12 in terms of resources and how they're being used, and have you ever TRIED the CM Partners mods? Your computer, unless you have some sort of alien technology, is guaranteed to become unstable at any more than 2-3 NPC partners, and will invariably crash at 7. And that's working with at least 8 times the PS3's main memory. Also, you have to consider that Oblivion really has very little going on in the background, so factor in a bunch of mods like Alive Waters, only also for a bunch of stuff on land. These additions alone will make even top-of-the-line computers scream. Now combine both of them and you'll find yourself with a burning box.

Please, RT. I know you feel like this is a step backwards. I wish the transitions were a bit more seamless, myself. But there are reasons for why it is the way it is, and why they had to scale it back that way.

[Regulus Tera]

Also, 12 didn't have such large environments with so much going on in them, from what I've seen to compare.

Uh this is not true. This is not true at all.

I mean I don't know shit about gaming programming or whatever but my complaints stem from the fact that despite being in more powerful hardware FFXIII is cutting back on stuff that should have become standard with the last iteration. And even if there's a reason for the lack of seamless battles, in my opinion they should have cut out on the superfluous stuff that doesn't allow for seamless battles.

[Bells]

I can survive with the transition, even if it was just an Esthetic choice. But the first part of the game seems littered with Linear maps and dungeons and that's what bugs me.

Ok, to be honest, i can't recall any Final Fantasy that gave you a ton of freedom before the 5~10 hours mark. Usually you're trapped in a city or navigating from one room to the next room... and sure, some FF's would give you a limited world map early on and this one doesn't seem to do that...

I just hope that after the training wheels come off, the game opens up more than this.

[bluestarultor]

Uh this is not true. This is not true at all.

I mean I don't know shit about gaming programming or whatever but my complaints stem from the fact that despite being in more powerful hardware FFXIII is cutting back on stuff that should have become standard with the last iteration. And even if there's a reason for the lack of seamless battles, in my opinion they should have cut out on the superfluous stuff that doesn't allow for seamless battles.

You know, RT, the argument could be made that they cut seamless battle transitions as a superfluous feature to make way for other things. Because it's pretty apparent they did, what with the early stuff showing near-seamless transitions with the final product not having them. That means they put in work to take them OUT, when they would have been easier to leave in if there had been room for them.

You really have to take a step back and look at mechanics. They wanted a fast-paced battle system. They actually increased the speed of battle over development by frankly quite a lot. In FF12, you had a pretty slow battle system. Things took time to execute, you had to wait for your turn to come up, and rounds were generally pretty darn long. They didn't want that for this. From what I'm seeing, you're basically racing to input commands and there's next to no cooldown in comparison. As soon as you act, your turn is up again.

That kind of speed applied to an MMO-like system COULD work, but it could quickly turn unforgiving depending on how much is on the field. An MMO-style system works best when numbers are roughly even in battles, or at least if the levels add up to about the same. Granted, from what we've seen, in certain areas, it might have been possible.

But then you have range to consider, too. For normal summoning, an MMO-style system could work, because, as you'll likely point out, it did in FF12. On the other hand, FF13 has Driving/Gestalt Mode, which makes battles much more action-oriented and not only removes the rest of the party from play, but also takes up the player character's full attention. Many of the Gestalt Mode abilities have a limited range best served by an enclosed area, because they're physical attacks. Wide, sweeping physical attacks, but they still require physical contact, which the enclosed area helps ensure. Without it, one could easily be "in battle" with several enemies, yet not be close enough to hit them. Given that Gestalt Mode essentially puts the summon's HP as its time, and the attacks also pull from that time, it makes sense to make sure none of the effort is wasted, because you have to win that time from battles and you can't cancel in the middle of it.

You also have to consider buyer feedback. I don't have numbers on this one, but I personally DISLIKED the MMO setup in 12, and I know others who did, too. It felt, at the time, like they were trying to cheaply capitalize on the popularity of MMOs. Maybe they were. I'm not going to argue this one, because, as I said, I don't have numbers on it, but I will point out that FF had ten titles out that used a battle screen, and all but three of those were on hardware known to be capable of putting battles right where you stood. There's nothing inherently wrong with having a battle screen, and just because one game didn't do it that way does not make the practice obsolete.




Frankly, as a programmer with vague hopes of doing games as a living and concrete hopes of doing games as a hobby, with several projects in various stages of planning and completion, I know what has to be considered, because I have to consider it. I'm not saying any of this stuff to be rotten, RT. I'm trying to explain it to you, so you can have a better idea of what goes into this stuff. Programming isn't at all black and white. There are many ways of doing things and you often have to consider what's best for an individual situation. When dealing with content, you have to weigh everything against everything else and make tough decisions on what to include, what to cut, and what to scale up or scale back so everything fits into your resources.

One last thing, remember that this is coming to the 360, too, which has its own specs and quirks. Maybe the PS3 COULD handle an MMO battle system like 12's but maybe the 360 couldn't. I know jack about the 360's specs and capabilities, but you have to consider that it's going to be the same game for both systems. Very few games currently do different versions between the two, with the only one I can think of being NIER. When coding for multiple configurations, you have to cater to the greatest common factor in every aspect, which means the lowest factor in each area on each system hampers the final product.




Edit: Wasn't going to do this originally, but I think people deserve a TL;DR for this. So I'll do bullet points:

An enclosed battle area can help with resources including disk space, RAM usage, and CPU load.
Mechanics must be considered. An enclosed area benefits wide-angle physical attacks as in Gestalt Mode.
Just because open-style battle was done once does not make it the standard; it makes it the exception that may become a new standard if it continues.
The PS3 is not the only system this is being made for, and thus it must cater to the greatest common factor in every area, in which the lowest capability in every area drags down the ultimate quality.

[Kim]

Guys, I have some spoilers for you!

http://i50.tinypic.com/6zmsew.jpg

Oh, and, by the by, you only unlock the full leveling system after FOUR HOURS.

[Krylo]

Just outta curiousity--I'm not reading most of this thread 'cause of the spoilers buuuut--if you're this interested in the game, do you guys plan to get it?

If so, what's the point when you're already going to know every single thing that is going to happen by the time it makes it state/whateversideyouareon side?

[Kim]

Just outta curiousity--I'm not reading most of this thread 'cause of the spoilers buuuut--if you're this interested in the game, do you guys plan to get it?

If so, what's the point when you're already going to know every single thing that is going to happen by the time it makes it state/whateversideyouareon side?

I'm interested solely for the gameplay, but this is largely why I am avoiding these videos. Even if I don't like the story, I don't want to spoil it for myself. That'd make playing through it even more unbearable, once again, under the assumption I don't like it.

[Regulus Tera]

http://i46.tinypic.com/osygc0.jpg

[bluestarultor]

Yeah, I'm going to come out and call that a fake, there, for some pretty obvious and not-so-obvious reasons. :sweatdrop

[greed]

On the linearity, eh I used to hate FFX for that but on later replays it was less of a problem, it just stopped bothering me, so hopefully it won't bother me in this.

So anyway, apparently this game has a bestiary. Which is awesome and has boosted it to buy at release for me. I mean it probably won't top FFXII's masterpiece of one, but still, they're my favourite thing to put in a RPG.

Also I've got two questions that I'm curious about but don't want the answer too spoilery.

1. Is Jihl the main villain?

2. If not does the main villain come out of freaking nowhere Necron style?

[bluestarultor]

On the linearity, eh I used to hate FFX for that but on later replays it was less of a problem, it just stopped bothering me, so hopefully it won't bother me in this.

So anyway, apparently this game has a bestiary. Which is awesome and has boosted it to buy at release for me. I mean it probably won't top FFXII's masterpiece of one, but still, they're my favourite thing to put in a RPG.

Also I've got two questions that I'm curious about but don't want the answer too spoilery.

1. Is Jihl the main villain?

2. If not does the main villain come out of freaking nowhere Necron style?

I can actually field this. No, Jihl is not the main villain, despite being quite the bitch. The main villain is currently somewhat ambiguous, as there are a couple candidates, but no solid word on who's ultimately the biggest problem for the party. We CAN assume, however, that we'll meet whoever it is along the way, given what has been revealed, or that they at least aren't going to come out of nowhere.

[Regulus Tera]

Unconfirmed spoilers:

1. Is Jihl the main villain?

She seems to die halfway through the game.

2. If not does the main villain come out of freaking nowhere Necron style?

No idea.

[Bells]

http://i46.tinypic.com/osygc0.jpg

What the fuck?! No, this must be fake... the shadow doesn't cover the characters below... but it's a great fake.

Also, after seeing some footage of a Asian Let's play, the game does seem to open up nicely and scale up too, so i guess it's a slow start, but not as bad as i thought it could be.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Just outta curiousity--I'm not reading most of this thread 'cause of the spoilers buuuut--if you're this interested in the game, do you guys plan to get it?

If so, what's the point when you're already going to know every single thing that is going to happen by the time it makes it state/whateversideyouareon side?
Maybe there's more to playing a game than finding out what's going to happen.

But, maybe not.

[Regulus Tera]

Just outta curiousity--I'm not reading most of this thread 'cause of the spoilers buuuut--if you're this interested in the game, do you guys plan to get it?

No.

Final Fantasy has come to the point where I can enjoy most of what it can offer from watching playthroughs on Youtube. Same issue with the Metal Gear series.

EDIT: I might rent it if just for the battle system. I can foresee some cool battles deriving from it.

[Kerensky287]

I plan to get the game because the Paradigm Shift system looks interesting and is a new concept in FF games. As with the Eidolon/Gestalt Mode bit.

I did watch a bit of the live playthroughs, but I don't think I spoiled anything other than the same vague "At one point they go to an ice level" type stuff you see in trailers anyway. Hell, the English trailers probably spoiled more for me just because I could understand them.

[bluestarultor]

I do plan on getting the game, because FF is good about always bringing something new and interesting to the table, and the only one that I've ever popped into a system and haven't liked was 12 for, well, basically everything, actually. As 13 looks like it's not going to be 12 all over again, I believe I'll like it like I liked everything that wasn't 12.

[Kim]

I'm really not sure if I'll love this game or hate it. It looks like, at least until you go into Pulse, you pretty much have no goddamn freedom whatsoever, which sucks. I don't want games to sell themselves on freedom, but some would be appreciated.

The main character dying equals game over may or may not work, depending on how much like Misturu all your teammates are. *MARIN FUCKING KARIN*

I like the scale of a lot of the fights, so that's nifty, but I haven't really seen anything character or storywise that pulls me in. Chocofro is kind of a cool dude, but that's entirely for is chocofro. Delivery is key, and since they traded FFXII's more grounded, human characters for a healthy dose of anime characters, it could go either way.

This will, more than likely, be far from my favorite FF game, but it probably won't be my least favorite either. We'll see.

EDIT: It seems that party is decided for you by the game, which seems a step back to FFIV days. You can't flee battles and they're usually unavoidable. Also, I hear the game is very easy and requires zero strategy other than attack attack attack. I don't know how accurate that last one is, though.

[bluestarultor]

Uh, Nonsie? :sweatdrop

If a battle ends in defeat, the player has the option to either try it again or return to the previous save point.

I don't know where you're getting your info, but it's at least not what I heard. Maybe the wiki needs to be updated, but then could you give me your source so I can do it? I'd like to help keep things accurate, you know? ;)

[Kim]

Uh, Nonsie? :sweatdrop

FINE. If the main character dies, the battle ends in defeat. You pretty much confirmed my worries about it being too easy, though. Thanks.

[bluestarultor]

Well, then you should love it, since you loathe perfection. :p


Still waiting to hear where you picked up the main character bit.

[Kim]

Well, then you should love it, since you loathe perfection.

This sentence contained nothing humorous, and the addition of the tongue smiley does not change that fact. If you're going to insult me, at least make it funny. It can't really be in good fun if it isn't fun.

Still waiting to hear where you picked up the main character bit.

Well, among other places, RT has been watching the game being played and said as much.

[Regulus Tera]

So I just watched the ending.

The final boss design is ugly. Also, it is Cocoon itself. Totally serious.
The ending is girly. Really, really girly. As in, yuri undertones and all. Vanille X Fang is my OTP.

[bluestarultor]

This sentence contained nothing humorous, and the addition of the tongue smiley does not change that fact. If you're going to insult me, at least make it funny. It can't really be in good fun if it isn't fun.

Look at your signature lately? I was teasing. ;)

Well, among other places, RT has been watching the game being played and said as much.

Well, I guess that means I'm going to have to ask him for some links. 'Cause hell if I'm going to go scouring YouTube for something that may or may not exist.

Either that, or I'll have to put out a general call for a search in the talk page.

[Kim]

Look at your signature lately? I was teasing. ;)

Complaint retracted, though you really shouldn't hold me to Kurotsuchi quotes.

[Bells]

Can we agree that the summons turned out more Awesome than expected?

For example... i present Gundam Alexander

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsXCdzM7vU

[Kim]

For example... i present Gundam Alexander

He's far too small and that summon sequence better be skippable.

Attack animations for summons are too long in Gestalt Mode.

[Bells]

Oh c'mon now. As far as i can recall that's one of the fastest Summon transition in all FF and the Gestalt attacks aren't slower than common magic except for the Finisher.

[Kim]

Oh c'mon now. As far as i can recall that's one of the fastest Summon transition in all FF and the Gestalt attacks aren't slower than common magic except for the Finisher.

Let me tell you something Bells. I was playing Persona PSP, a port of the first Persona game from the PSX. I love the Persona games, and I really enjoyed this one, but that doesn't change the fact that half the time I was going "Holeeee shiiiiit I am glad they don't pull this bullshit anymore." Just because the summons sequences are longer in old games, does not change the fact that doing something like that, especially if we do it on a regular basis, is going to be a pain in the bitch to sit through, and is something that should be fazed out as the franchise progresses.

[bluestarultor]

Honestly, I'm just glad they kept everything to shorter than in was in FF12. I mean, granted, it lacks the ZOMG WORLD BUSTING appearance of 12's sequences, but that was a bit over the top in the first place. These (the same user has videos for Odin, Shiva, and Byrnhildr) seem to be much more local, which makes sense in the context of the game. Although they lack variation. All of them minus Alexander end up with a spinning attack, which isn't quite as bad with Odin, since it's Lightning doing the spinning, and in the air, but Shiva and Byrnhildr are basically the same, replace one element with another. That's mildly disappointing.

[Bells]

Well, there is only so much you can do with a Motorcycle and a Car, so i guess they drove themselves to a designer corner with that one...

I also got the feeling that they pushed this to a more streamlined concept by actually "removing" summons. Because they don't play out as summons anymore. They are just Limit breakers. Each character has only one and it's always the same...

And checking out the Damage output those things give it also feels like Summons are ment to be Life savers instead of a common attack like they have been on previous FF's after a certain point. You can't just summon it like a ordinary attack any time you want.

Sure, it does drag on some old concepts, but FF13 is actually trying to take these concepts and give it a freash spin... if it works or not it's another story.

[bluestarultor]

Well, there is only so much you can do with a Motorcycle and a Car, so i guess they drove themselves to a designer corner with that one...

I also got the feeling that they pushed this to a more streamlined concept by actually "removing" summons. Because they don't play out as summons anymore. They are just Limit breakers. Each character has only one and it's always the same...

And checking out the Damage output those things give it also feels like Summons are ment to be Life savers instead of a common attack like they have been on previous FF's after a certain point. You can't just summon it like a ordinary attack any time you want.

Sure, it does drag on some old concepts, but FF13 is actually trying to take these concepts and give it a freash spin... if it works or not it's another story.

Oh, no, you're totally right. On pretty much all counts. I was just kind of excited at first when Byrnhildr accelerated because I thought it was going to be an Ifrit-style charge/flash heat attack, and needless to say I was disappointed when she started spinning. Also that Sazh got ejected during it, taking away pretty much every possibility of him being a serious character. That alone is disappointing, because his individual position is quite serious, what with the quest for his son, and he's shown a good amount of wisdom, too.

But yeah, the big guys are on record saying that they didn't include Limit Breaks because of the Eidolons. Those were some damn big numbers popping up, and the way you have to earn summoning points from winning battles cements it pretty strongly as a last resort.




Edit: Oh, hey, the user just added Bahumut. No spinning! XD

I kid, but Mega Flare is kinda special in its own way. Usually, it's a beam or giant blast. This one is a megaton bomb that just so happens to be the size of a softball.

The damage-to-impressiveness ratio of these attacks is a bit off-kilter, methinks, but I'll wait for the game to really judge. XD

[mudah.swf]

Fuuuck I want this game really bad. I don't think I've been excited for an FF game ever. Only a few months to go at least. Of course I won't be avoiding spoilers in the meantime because I am the sort that gives no shit about spoilers.

[Bells]

There are a few videos on Youtube explaining the battle system. It's actually deeper in strategy than i would've thought at first

[Kim]

So here's the sales data for December 21-27, which I think is like the second week of FFXIII's release.

1. New Super Mario Brothers – 506,000 / 2,440,000

2. The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks – 297,000 / 297,000

3. Tomodachi Collection – 227,000 / 2,317,000

4. Final Fantasy XIII – 189,000 / 1,690,000

5. Pokemon Heart – 125,000 / 3,465,000

The first number appears to be sales for that week, and how the ranking is organized. The second seems to be total sales since release.

It's funny to me.

[Regulus Tera]

Basically it's selling worse than the PS2 FFs.

Not that surprising, but still.

[Regulus Tera]

Case in point (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaIl-Eqc0Eg).


They should have got Lady Gaga instead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_lnsuzx6KI).

[Meister]

Threads merged, yo.

I'm sure there are at least two other active FFXIII threads floating around but let's call this one The One for now.

[Yumil]

Source (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235030?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSS):
The key developers of Square Enix's Final Fantasy XIII have revealed they "try not to listen to the critics too much" - and responded to criticism of the game's linear nature.

Producer Yoshinori Kitase told CVG sister mag Xbox World 360: "We try not to listen to the critics too much. Most of the criticisms have come because the first half of the game is very linear.

"But we've got a story to tell, and it's important the player can engage with the characters and the world they inhabit before letting them loose..."

The game's director Motomu Toriyama added: "We think many reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a western point of view. When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like... [It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom."

Apparently, they havent learned that giving some freedom is necessary(where I hear FF13 doesn't even open up till Chapter 11, quite a ways in, In fact, I hear you can't even back track). I thought they had learned that the standard jRPG formula was getting stale when they did FF12, but apparently change and originality is bad.

Heck, the team doesnt get why Mass Effect is so popular.
Source(@14:35) (http://podcast.the1upnetwork.com/flat/Retronauts/ATB021110.mp3)

Anywho, there have been very few nonhandheld jRPGs I have loved recently(guess the last one was Lost Odyssey, but that was mainly due to the localization of it with Michael McGaharn's performance...man I am glad they gave him that much freedom to make Jansen into a real character). Perhaps, the linear story is getting stale, and a more freeform(not sandbox) method of story telling needs to be visited. Our consoles are no longer limited so extreme linearity isn't forced on us by technical hurdles. Maybe Square will sit down and play ME/2 and learn a thing or two:)

[Regulus Tera]

[It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom

Final Fantasy XI.

Why do Square figureheads say stupid shit? I've always suspected they thought it, but only recently have they been saying it out on the public.

[Geminex]

Yeah, those guys really need to play KOTOR. Or Mass Effect. Seriously, how is there a linear relationship between epicness of story and linearity of gameplay? Sure, it's easier to tell a compelling story if you know exactly where the player's going next, but it's still possible.

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, those guys really need to play KOTOR. Or Mass Effect.

They need to play their own fucking games before start playing somebody else's games.

Then again, this is Motomu Toriyama. Not even he would be able to stand the shit he creates.

[Yumil]

Then again, this is Motomu Toriyama. Not even he would be able to stand the shit he creates.

X2, Revenant Wings, and the Ff7 cocktease tech demo, I presume?

[Mirai Gen]

"We think many reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a western point of view."
Reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy as a wRPG.

Final Fantasy.

The franchise that started jRPGs.

...Christ Toriyama. Clutch at less straws, why don't you.

[Meister]

Threads merged. Again.

I hear FF13 doesn't even open up till Chapter 11, quite a ways in, In fact, I hear you can't even back track
Sounds like FFX, to be honest. Not entirely because you could backtrack in FFX but then again it was a bit of a pain to actually do it so to me it sounds close enough, at least.

I don't quite buy into this notion that linear games are per se worse than nonlinear ones. If a game is good and the story and gameplay hold my attention I don't particularly care if I can make a side trip to Bel'gov'ia' Desert to collect 700 cactus flowers for the shopkeeper anytime I want. Slagging a game that's designed to be linear for that very fact seems a bit like slagging Mega Man 9 for outdated graphics. (I'm aware Final Fantasy may be the wrong series for which to cite story quality as an element.)

... I did curse FFX many times for how much of a pain backtracking was though but then again the only reason I ever wanted to backtrack was to get video spheres or whatever before Dark Aeons showed up, so basically just video game collectable OCD.

Please also note that I haven't actually read very many FFXIII reviews or this thread so if at any point in my post you catch yourself thinking "but that's not what this is about at all" that's likely the reason.

[Melfice]

From what I've heard, 13 might just drag me back in.
I very much disliked 12, so perhaps the change of plans'll be what I need.

[Azisien]

I kinda want to get it for the 360, just to see if it red rings my console or something.

But from the eye-bleeding commentary leading up to the 3rd page before I gave up, I might like this. I liked FFX, and FFXII didn't really grab me (though I didn't give it a fair shot, which is why I didn't trade it in and will one day play it!)

Also, linearity? Fuck, every FF in my memory is linear. The games only open up a bit at 50-80% completion, and before then, FFs give you approximately two options:
1) Go to destination game wants you to go to.
2) Grind in forest outside destination game wants you to go to.

[Kim]

My problem with the linearity is that the game is a giant, straight line with almost zero deviation. Not even any towns because they're lazy bastards with fucked up priorities. I'm not asking for wRPG levels of freedom, but a little room for deviation would be nice. Also: Sidequests.

A lot of my problems with FFXIII is that they seem to have just completely gutted everything and replaced it all with *PRETTY*.

Now excuse me while I go play Persona 4 and wait two and a half hours before I get to make anything other than dialogue choices. [/hypocrisy]

[Meister]

Also, linearity? Fuck, every FF in my memory is linear.
I think it was dropping world maps that really opened everyone's eyes for this.

Man I miss world maps.

[Kim]

I think it was dropping world maps that really opened everyone's eyes for this.

Man I miss world maps.

I hear FF Versus XIII is going to have world maps, or so I hear.

I also miss flying my airship myself. That was bomb. Why the fuck'd they cut that out?

[Meister]

Not enough menus to satisfy the target demographic otherwise.

[krogothwolf]

I hear FF Versus XIII is going to have world maps, or so I hear.

I also miss flying my airship myself. That was bomb. Why the fuck'd they cut that out?

I love flying the airships. It was so much fun. Damnit now you made me depressed about lack of airship flying again :( Giving us a airship isn't enough, they should let us fly it!

My guess on world maps is that they want to make the world seem larger then what they give you. Like what they did with FF XII. But it's still sad that they've removed them.

[Regulus Tera]

Reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy as a wRPG.

Final Fantasy.

The franchise that started jRPGs.

Dragon Quest is now Final Fantasy?

[Ravashak]

Same company nowadays, don't mind the details or plotholes xP

[Mirai Gen]

Dragon Quest is now Final Fantasy?
Fair enough, but it's not exactly in question that Final Fantasy is absurdly popular and everyone knows exactly what it is. Blaming wRPGs for the disappointing reviews of Final Fantasy is like saying Halo 3: ODST is underperforming because of Saint's Row 2.

[EVILNess]

Dragon Quest is now Final Fantasy?

In the US, Final Fantasy started the jRPG. Dragon Quest has always played such a sad and lonely second fiddle.

[Regulus Tera]

X2, Revenant Wings, and the Ff7 cocktease tech demo, I presume?

FFX-2: Crap
Revenant Wings: Crapper.
Blood of Bahamut: Hasn't come out here but from what I've heard ended up being shit!

And from what I've heard he was responsible for the laughing scene in FFX.

In the US, Final Fantasy started the jRPG. Dragon Quest has always played such a sad and lonely second fiddle.

Ultima created JRPGs.

[bluestarultor]

Accusing Final Fantasy of being linear is like accusing the sky of being blue.

I think there might have been a few conflicts of priority given towns and stuff, but then I also think they might be being a bit too anal about the detail they want to put in the buildings, just looking in from the outside. On the other hand, I'd rather sacrifice towns than a decent plot.

[Donomni]

Man, this is the "FFVII remake can't be done because it'd be too much for HD graphics ohshitdon'tlookatFFXIV" bullshit all over again.

I mean, yeah, Square, but it'd be nice if they didn't do this in every other interview.

Accusing Final Fantasy of being linear is like accusing the sky of being blue.

I think there might have been a few conflicts of priority given towns and stuff, but then I also think they might be being a bit too anal about the detail they want to put in the buildings, just looking in from the outside. On the other hand, I'd rather sacrifice towns than a decent plot.

It's less "Why is this linear" for me and more "Why the hell are they saying this isn't doable when they have evidence saying otherwise?"

[Regulus Tera]

Man, this is the "FFVII remake can't be done because it'd be too much for HD graphics ohshitdon'tlookatFFXIV" bullshit all over again.

It's the Kitase/Toriyama/Wada trio of idiocy.

Nomura is alright, to be honest. He can still fuck things up sometimes but at least he knows when to shut up.

[Ravashak]

It's less "Why is this linear" for me and more "Why the hell are they saying this isn't doable when they have evidence saying otherwise?"
So you want them to open up several areas (Bioware says 4) after the intro, require you to complete the Main Missions there, after which the endgame is (usually immediately) opened?

I don't know, I like the gradual "unlocking" of the world, which at some point rewards you with an airship type transport method (teleports at major save points work well too).

[Yumil]

I can understand doing it for story, but we are all forgetting one major part of RPGs and that is Role Playing. Extreme linearity turns it into basically a visual novel(not that visual novels aren't good, I love Fate/Stay Night).

While yes, you can still play a role in an extremely linear game, you won't be that immersed, since it will be extremely obvious you have no choice in how the character is played. Sure, every FF has been this way, but they have masked it by giving you a modicum of choices. Most FFs dont fully open up till you get the airship, but until then they either give you a world map to explore(albeit limited), towns to explore, or heck the ability to backtrack a bit. Add in sidequests and you are good.

Linearity is for action games and books, RPGs need a bit more open endedness or you wont really feel like you have any control over the role. Im not asking for a sandbox, just a bit more than follow the path.

edit:
So you want them to open up several areas (Bioware says 4) after the intro, require you to complete the Main Missions there, after which the endgame is (usually immediately) opened?

I don't know, I like the gradual "unlocking" of the world, which at some point rewards you with an airship type transport method (teleports at major save points work well too).

Not exactly, but bringing you to a fork in the story where you can go three places of the same importance and cant continue the story until you have done so wouldnt be too bad. ME2 is a different type of story telling, as it's more about the trip building your team than the actual mission.

[bluestarultor]

FFX-2: Crap
Revenant Wings: Crapper.
Blood of Bahamut: Hasn't come out here but from what I've heard ended up being shit!

And from what I've heard he was responsible for the laughing scene in FFX.

FFX-2 had excellent gameplay. Get over it.

Also, I think people miss the whole point of the laughing scene, which is highlighting they're in a shit world and need to put on a happy face, so they're forcing it as badly as possible until they actually have to laugh at themselves, and even then, everyone thinks they've lost their marbles. It's a well-executed scene.

It's less "Why is this linear" for me and more "Why the hell are they saying this isn't doable when they have evidence saying otherwise?"

Well, they never said it was impossible, just prohibitive to their standards.

[Regulus Tera]

FFX-2 had excellent gameplay. Get over it.

FFX-2's rest of the package soured me on the one good thing it had.

[Kim]

It's a well-executed scene.

No. No it is not. I even like the game and no it's pretty poorly executed. If I had to blame one thing it'd be that the voice acting is so universally piss poor that the whole "WE ARE FAKE LAUGHING OH GOD I WANT TO CUT MYSELF" is nigh indecipherable from "OH GOD THE ACTING IN THIS GAME IS AWFUL"

[Donomni]

So you want them to open up several areas (Bioware says 4) after the intro, require you to complete the Main Missions there, after which the endgame is (usually immediately) opened?

I don't know, I like the gradual "unlocking" of the world, which at some point rewards you with an airship type transport method (teleports at major save points work well too).

No, I was referring to the fact that SE keeps tripping over themselves in interviews.

An open world with a storyline has been proven to be possible in some of SE's games: FFXI, FFXII to a lesser extent, and they're doing it again with FFXIV, and every FF that had an overworld map you walk on.

I wasn't critiquing their games, just their Foot-In-Mouth-Syndrome.

[Azisien]

Okay I gotta say, despite my earlier comments, no world map or airships does pretty much blow. What else did they remove, chocobos?

[krogothwolf]

No. No it is not. I even like the game and no it's pretty poorly executed. If I had to blame one thing it'd be that the voice acting is so universally piss poor that the whole "WE ARE FAKE LAUGHING OH GOD I WANT TO CUT MYSELF" is nigh indecipherable from "OH GOD THE ACTING IN THIS GAME IS AWFUL"

I have to agree with NonCon on that one. For some reason that scene really bugged me and he's right. The voice acting at that part was one of the main reason.

I enjoyed X and even X-2 at times, but I always hated the voice acting in it and that scene reminded me of how bad it could be.

[Mirai Gen]

FFX-2 had excellent gameplay.
So did Bayonetta.

[Yumil]

You can't compare a gameplay focused game(bayonetta is hurt by its story some, but it doesn't destroy it as action games are more about gameplay) to a story based one(bad story kills rpgs...)

[bluestarultor]

You can't compare a gameplay focused game(bayonetta is hurt by its story some, but it doesn't destroy it as action games are more about gameplay) to a story based one(bad story kills rpgs...)

If you're playing a mission-based game for a good story, you're doing it wrong. The fact that X-2's was anywhere near only sub-par is a bonus.

I'm not saying it couldn't have been better, but look at the competition at the time.

On that note, I'm just going to have to cite irreconcilable differences of opinion on the games in question. I generally tend to be more forgiving if a game is lacking in any one area than most. Like, shit, I'm the guy who actually likes Evil Zone because of its simplified control system and The Legend of Dragoon for incorporating rhythm elements into battle.

Call me an optimist, I guess. :J

[Yumil]

Im not saying I didnt enjoy X-2, cuz I totally did.

Just saying, I disliked the overarching story elements so much that I skipped cutscenes my first run through... which is blasphemous for any RPG.

[Mirai Gen]

(bayonetta is hurt by its story some, but it doesn't destroy it as action games are more about gameplay)
Not trying to hijack the thread but Bayonetta's story and cutscenes physically hurt me. I seriously left liking it less, gameplay aside, just from the story.

'Cept for Cereza. She was okay.

[Amake]

I'd just like to say I have no problem with a linear game. FF6 WoR was pretty nonlinear and it doesn't add anything that I've noticed. The problem is that replacing actual travel around the game world with a list of locations remove the sense of physical integrity of that world. It's not conductive to immersion.

Also damnit, now I'm going to have to get a PS3.

[Jagos]

It's the Kitase/Toriyama/Wada trio of idiocy.

Nomura is alright, to be honest. He can still fuck things up sometimes but at least he knows when to shut up.

Not when it comes to fashion sense.

[bluestarultor]

Not when it comes to fashion sense.

It varies, really. FF8 has some pretty nice designs, overall. Maybe not in the sense that they look like real-world fashion, but in the sense that they generally look appropriate to the setting and characters and don't rely on ridiculous asymmetrical bullshit like a lot of the Japanese designers like to throw in all the time. FF9 was also pretty decent on that front, where it fit the setting pretty well and actually looked like stuff people might wear given the world.

Then you got FFX, which was a roller coaster in its own right, and FF12, which, while the designs weren't bad, necessarily, they didn't make much sense given the setting. I'm sorry, but wearing leather in a hot environment is just asking to sweat and chafe.

[Mirai Gen]

I'm sorry, but wearing leather in a hot environment is just asking to sweat and chafe.
I'm not 100% on the designs of FF12 and Noncon's not online, but - if they were wearing leather it's probably designed to be fought in since metal is like 100,000 times worse.

[bluestarultor]

I'm not 100% on the designs of FF12 and Noncon's not online, but - if they were wearing leather it's probably designed to be fought in since metal is like 100,000 times worse.

There's actually a good deal of that, too. I'll just link from FF Wiki.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Vaan
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Penelo
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Balthier
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ashelia_B%27nargin_Dalmasca
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Basch_fon_Ronsenburg
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fran

Basically, half the party would be fucking dying anywhere that didn't have snow on the ground and Fran, the least-clad one, is ironically wearing standard garb for people living in what IIRC amounts to temperate forest. The designs aren't awful, but it doesn't fit with the setting or even with the lives the characters lead all of the time.

Edit: Also, leaving your soldiers' torsos this vulnerable is nothing short of idiotic. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Reks

[Mirai Gen]

Actually that's not too bad. The only awful ones are Balthier who honestly looks like he's from a normal urban environment (for pseudo-steampunk fantasy anyway) and kinda Penelo. Most of them have sparse bits of armor here and there (like Ash) but lots of places that have room to breathe.

I'll quit hijacking the thread now.

[Kim]

The thing you have to understand about FF12 is the thing about every Final Fantasy and most every jRPG ever, which is that nobody changes their garb based on location. Balthier's clothes make sense because he's *OMGSPOILERZ* a former judge, which is damn posh job, for the uber-powerful super country. Also, he flies around in an airship all the time. That's his standard location, so his clothes make sense, given that.

But yeah, Penelo's design is duuuuuuumb.

[bluestarultor]

The thing you have to understand about FF12 is the thing about every Final Fantasy and most every jRPG ever, which is that nobody changes their garb based on location. Balthier's clothes make sense because he's *OMGSPOILERZ* a former judge, which is damn posh job, for the uber-powerful super country. Also, he flies around in an airship all the time. That's his standard location, so his clothes make sense, given that.

But yeah, Penelo's design is duuuuuuumb.

That was pretty much part of my point, where I just feel some of the designs don't fit well with the locations I saw while playing (i.e. equatorial areas). They're not bad designs, in fact I like them a lot for the most part, but I just feel they look out of place.

[Kim]

That was pretty much part of my point, where I just feel some of the designs don't fit well with the locations I saw while playing (i.e. equatorial areas). They're not bad designs, in fact I like them a lot for the most part, but I just feel they look out of place.

Still makes more sense than FFX belt dress, because belt dress doesn't make any sense with or without location taken into account.

[bluestarultor]

Still makes more sense than FFX belt dress, because belt dress doesn't make any sense with or without location taken into account.

Definitely. In fact, that was a joke on the animators. The guy didn't even know how it would be physically possible. XD

Edit: Apparently, her cleavage is also so big that she uses it as her item storage area. (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lulu)

[Amake]

The belt dress doesn't even make any sense on a basic physiological level. It's an abstract dress. Look how it behaves in cut scenes. Lulu doesn't show up a lot in them.

I never even thought about how the clothes blend in with the background in any of the games. . .might be unfair to expect them to.

[bluestarultor]

I never even thought about how the clothes blend in with the background in any of the games. . .might be unfair to expect them to.

Well, I should say that I don't expect a new costume with every area, but looking at it this way, the outfit should at least represent aspects of one's home. In this case, Fran is appropriately-dressed because all the Viera in her home dress the same way. Whether that's appropriate to the climate there is something I'd have to see about nabbing my brother's save file for, but it's consistent.

Vaan and Penelo, on the other hand, are both dressed in leather, and Vaan has a bunch of metal on him to boot. This doesn't mesh with the clothing other people of similar social status are wearing in their home area, nor is it practical for the heat of the desert. Also, they're both street rats. Why should they be armored at all? They're not expected to fight, and the weight would hurt their ability to be thieves. And metal is expensive, so how could Vaan afford it in the first place? It just feels like it doesn't belong.



Compare that to FF9, where everyone is dressed for a temperate climate. They all come from temperate regions and their detailing reveals a bit about their character and social class. Garnet is in the process of running away, for example, so she's got the worst stuff in her closet on, and even then, it has poofy sleeves, showing she can't really escape being at least a little refined among the plebs. Zidane has a ruffle, but doesn't have any sleeves, showing he's at the same time at least somewhat sophisticated (or at least wants to be), but that he's not exactly rich in his own right, or else that and his floating cuffs wouldn't be the extent of his show of it. Amarant is basically dirt and he wears clothes that are not all that nice, with lots of wrinkles and no ornamentation.

And yet despite all this, there's not much in the game that you couldn't put side by side and have blatantly not fit together. They all have a theme that unites them. FF8 is the same way. This is what I'm talking about.

[Amake]

I think I read Yoshitaka Amano didn't actually design a lot of the characters in 9. But I guess you can still see his touch, especially compared to its terrible absence from the later games. >_>

[Kim]

IIRC FF9 has the same artist as the FFCC games which is not Amano.

Character designs in VIII were actually pretty good visually, and the same seems to apply to FFXIII Versus, which makes sense since the visual design of both games seems identical. Not that that's a bad thing. Don't ask why, but for some reason I think they all look like gangsters though. I saw the main character in a suit in one cinematic and thought he looked like some sort of mafia motherfucker.

As for FFXII, I don't actively dislike Vaan's outfit, but I'm not a fan of it either. Kind of meh on it. It kind of makes sense to me on the basis of Matsuno Game, like how Ashley Riot wore assless chaps just cuz, but anyone wants to hate on Vaan, I could care less. Everyone else has designs I'm fond of. I want to hate Fran's but hers makes sense what with her being amazon warrior chick.

[Regulus Tera]

First real comparison (as in, non-photoshopped) between both versions:

http://www.meristation.com/EPORTAL_IMGS/GENERAL/juegos/Xbox360-Rol/23/IMG2-cw4b7d43c0b42b7/final_fantasy_xiii_360_029.jpg
http://www.meristation.com/EPORTAL_IMGS/GENERAL/juegos/PlayStation3-Rol/1f/IMG2-cw4b7d450ed72e8/final_fantasy_xiii_ps3_04.jpg

[greed]

IIRC FF9 has the same artist as the FFCC games which is not Amano.

Character designs in VIII were actually pretty good visually, and the same seems to apply to FFXIII Versus, which makes sense since the visual design of both games seems identical. Not that that's a bad thing. Don't ask why, but for some reason I think they all look like gangsters though. I saw the main character in a suit in one cinematic and thought he looked like some sort of mafia motherfucker.

As for FFXII, I don't actively dislike Vaan's outfit, but I'm not a fan of it either. Kind of meh on it. It kind of makes sense to me on the basis of Matsuno Game, like how Ashley Riot wore assless chaps just cuz, but anyone wants to hate on Vaan, I could care less. Everyone else has designs I'm fond of. I want to hate Fran's but hers makes sense what with her being amazon warrior chick.

Personally I always thought Vaan's outfit was a shout out to Aladdin. Street rat from a desert city who's got a vest but can't afford a shirt. Hell give him black hair and a fez and he even kind looks like him.

[bluestarultor]

IIRC FF9 has the same artist as the FFCC games which is not Amano.

Character designs in VIII were actually pretty good visually, and the same seems to apply to FFXIII Versus, which makes sense since the visual design of both games seems identical. Not that that's a bad thing. Don't ask why, but for some reason I think they all look like gangsters though. I saw the main character in a suit in one cinematic and thought he looked like some sort of mafia motherfucker.

As for FFXII, I don't actively dislike Vaan's outfit, but I'm not a fan of it either. Kind of meh on it. It kind of makes sense to me on the basis of Matsuno Game, like how Ashley Riot wore assless chaps just cuz, but anyone wants to hate on Vaan, I could care less. Everyone else has designs I'm fond of. I want to hate Fran's but hers makes sense what with her being amazon warrior chick.

Actually, despite someone having wiped out the "development" section of the FF9 page (I don't know when, but there used to be one), I do remember reading that FF9 was either the last one Amano truly designed the cast for or that he came back to do it. Either way, Amano did the actual character designs for it with a pretty good amount of creative freedom.

[Kim]

First real comparison (as in, non-photoshopped) between both versions:

The difference isn't that bad. Just so long as the 360 version isn't bugged to hell and back I should be just fine.

[bluestarultor]

The difference isn't that bad. Just so long as the 360 version isn't bugged to hell and back I should be just fine.

I'm not really noticing a difference, myself. Or maybe there is, but I'm writing it off as JPEG being a shitty format and degrading things.


Edit: I'm guessing the PS3's GPU is slightly sexier because it runs at slightly more GHz, but info on it is pretty slim and doesn't compare 1:1 with the info I'm finding on the 360's GPU. Apples to oranges and all.

[Kim]

I'm not really noticing a difference, myself. Or maybe there is, but I'm writing it off as JPEG being a shitty format and degrading things.

Up close, I don't really see one, but you can tell if you look at stuff 'in the distance'.

[bluestarultor]

Up close, I don't really see one, but you can tell if you look at stuff 'in the distance'.

Ah. I see now. Not really a deal-breaker, but there is a difference.

Might have something to do with the 360's 4x anti-aliasing versus whatever the PS3 is capable of, which I'm not finding any info on. Or maybe it handles it with some of the fancy floating-point junk they keep going on about.

Either way, the biggest difference is probably going to be in any dynamic physics the game has, with wind and such. A side-by-side using Bayonetta seems to indicate they handle that kind of thing a bit differently, but it's really only going to create minor differences in things like Lightning's cape.

[Kim]

Ah. I see now. Not really a deal-breaker, but there is a difference.

Yeah pretty much what I said.

I think they just downscaled the graphics a bit because of format concerns, rather than hardware concerns. Differences will be far more noticeable in the cutscenes, rather than the gameplay, as a result, because those ended up taking far more space, but WHATEVER.

[bluestarultor]

Yeah pretty much what I said.

I think they just downscaled the graphics a bit because of format concerns, rather than hardware concerns. Differences will be far more noticeable in the cutscenes, rather than the gameplay, as a result, because those ended up taking far more space, but WHATEVER.

I dunno, now that I'm looking closer, it almost seems like the 360 has some form of screen smoothing going on where the PS3 doesn't. Even looking at closer objects, like the cuff of Hope's pant leg, the 360 shot seems to have it smoothed.

I'm almost calling shenanigans on this with a light blur effect, but I really don't understand why someone would go through the trouble of doing such a good job of it that I really can't tell. It really does look legitimate.

Anyway, if it's screen smoothing, there's nothing to worry about in cutscenes, because things will be too close up to really be affected.

[Kerensky287]

The PS3 picture looks more... crisp to me. But that's about it. Ironically, the fact that it's a higher resolution brings out more of the flaws in my eyes - the fact that the 360 picture is a bit blurred means that the imperfections aren't as obvious.

Still, I would definitely say that the PS3 version looks noticeably better. Not that it would make a difference on my crappy TV...

[Azisien]

So they basically look the same and they both look good. Like pretty much every other cross-platform game that's done proper.

What will matter more is framerate, though. Can't tell framerate by screenshots.

[Donomni]

This game better not have Tiny Text Syndrome.

I swear, many unkind things are gonna be done if that's the case.

[bluestarultor]

This game better not have Tiny Text Syndrome.

I swear, many unkind things are gonna be done if that's the case.

From the screens, it looks like the text is going to be nothing short of huge, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. ;)

[krogothwolf]

From the screens, it looks like the text is going to be nothing short of huge, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. ;)

Depends though, big text can still be small on SD TV's though.

[bluestarultor]

Depends though, big text can still be small on SD TV's though.

You know how Duplo is kind of like Lego, only bigger? That's the text. If I can read it without my glasses in the screenshots being legally blind, I think it'll be fine. :J

[Regulus Tera]

Not when it comes to fashion sense.

I used to think I had a problem with Nomura, but it's really more of a case of when his designs get mismatched with the project he's on. Seeing people dressed like Shibuya youth makes me squirrely with Final Fantasy (it's like having the main characters in Dragon Age dressed like modern American youth/glam rock stars), but in something like TWEwY, his stuff fits perfectly.

And as far as his non-art chores go, I think he does them pretty well, aside from his chub for Gackt. He sucks at scripting alright, but he does come with very fun battle systems.

You can't compare a gameplay focused game(bayonetta is hurt by its story some, but it doesn't destroy it as action games are more about gameplay) to a story based one(bad story kills rpgs...)

Bayonetta's story gets way too much flack:

Bayonetta is a third-wave feminist study in the power of sisterhood. Bayonetta begins as only having heterosocial relationships with men, in which she is thoroughly contemptuous and cold to them. She only kills angels and mocks men, and doesn't understand relating to anyone or protecting anyone. Over the course of the game she finds herself relating in a deeper sense to two people - the girl Cereza and the witch Jeanne, as mother and sister respectively. This successful formation of homosocial relationships is the first time that Bayonetta finds a meaningful way of relating to others; indeed, at the end she merges her hair with that of Jeanne in order to create Hecate, who is more or less the dark incarnation of sisterhood. Bayonetta is about a lost woman finding herself by learning how to relate to other women in her life, as an equal or as a protector - strength alone is no feminism.

[Mirai Gen]

Not to derail but...
Bayonetta's story gets way too much flack:

Bayonetta is a third-wave feminist study in the power of sisterhood. Bayonetta begins as only having heterosocial relationships with men, in which she is thoroughly contemptuous and cold to them. She only kills angels and mocks men, and doesn't understand relating to anyone or protecting anyone. Over the course of the game she finds herself relating in a deeper sense to two people - the girl Cereza and the witch Jeanne, as mother and sister respectively. This successful formation of homosocial relationships is the first time that Bayonetta finds a meaningful way of relating to others; indeed, at the end she merges her hair with that of Jeanne in order to create Hecate, who is more or less the dark incarnation of sisterhood. Bayonetta is about a lost woman finding herself by learning how to relate to other women in her life, as an equal or as a protector - strength alone is no feminism.
http://pics.livejournal.com/miraigen/pic/000ece72

[bluestarultor]

LESS BAYONETTA, MORE FF13!


I have to say I don't mind Nomura's designs and I respect him for both his ability to build from the ground up and to translate Amano's very traditional art into a usable form.

Like, FFX is a study of the range of his abilities, as Amano had little, if any, input on most of the cast. Things range from the ultra-traditional Yuna to the ultra-modern Tidus. That puts him at a pretty good range of styles, including a bit of self-indulgence in Lulu's dress. XD

To call him a bad designer really isn't fair, since he's given a setting and told to design for it, or given art and told to translate it into a usable form. Given the settings and art he's been handed over the years, I think he's done a really good job.

[Kim]

I hate a lot of Nomura's character designs, but X was the worst it got in the main franchise, as far as I know. Tidus is awful, Wakka is awful, Lulu is awful, and the Al Bhed are awful. Yuna and Auron are pretty great, and Rikku's isn't too bad once she rejoins your party, though.

I don't mind it so much in Kingdom Hearts because it's supposed to be a ridiculous nonsense world where Disney and Final Fantasy drink beers together, and TWEWY was pretty damn great in terms of character designs. The man can do good character designs, and sometimes he does, but other times his brain falls out.

[bluestarultor]

Tidus and Wakka aren't as bad once you realize they're wearing sports uniforms. And they actually make a good deal of sense given the sport.

And like I said, Lulu is just his self-indulgence. All the belts had to go somewhere, right? XD


The point being, he designed all that from nothing. He was given the idea of an Asian-inspired setting and was told to design for it. And overall, I think he did pretty well with it. If you look at Yuna, Kimahri, and Auron, they are all Asian-inspired. Wakka is less-so, but he serves as a bridge to Tidus' Blitzball uniform. Lulu was designed to be exotic and there's some question as to whether she's even human, especially after Paine came around, and Rikku is Al-Bhed, which is a holdover from the original idea to keep things going in the technological direction that was tossed out. All of it sounds like a mixed bag until you realize that it largely fits onto an even spectrum, or maybe even a sort of wheel. Like

Rikku->Tidus->Wakka->Yuna->Kimahri->Lulu->Auron->Rikku




Edit: Anywho, you can't accuse his designs for FF13 of being out of place. From the futuristic area of Cocoon, you have Lightning, reminiscent of a Roman soldier with her red cape, Sazh, who also wears something resembling a uniform, Snow with his trench coat, and Hope with his outfit, while from the wilds of Pulse, you have Vanille, mostly based on traditional African dress, and Fang, more based off traditional Indian dress or certain other parts of Africa. Given that Lightning and Sazh were both soldiers, and Hope and Snow were both civilians, the only real disparity is between Vanille and Fang for wearing very different clothes while coming from the same tribe.

[Kim]

Tidus and Wakka aren't as bad once you realize they're wearing sports uniforms. And they actually make a good deal of sense given the sport.

Don't lie. It reflects poorly on you. Wearing a half shirt where one sleeve deviates into some leather webbing... thing does not make sense. Wearing overalls does not make sense, either. When one of the legs is shorts, and the other leg is short shorts... just... argh. The future looks fuckin' dumb.

Edit: Anywho, you can't accuse his designs for FF13 of being out of place.

I can accuse Snow's Buddy Team for looking fucking dumb. I know they probably die or something fairly early on, but goddamn those outfits are fucking awful.

[bluestarultor]

Don't lie. It reflects poorly on you. Wearing a half shirt where one sleeve deviates into some leather webbing... thing does not make sense. Wearing overalls does not make sense, either. When one of the legs is shorts, and the other leg is short shorts... just... argh. The future looks fuckin' dumb.

Well, you have to consider things like laterality and which limbs a person is most likely to block with. Tidus has a longer right pant leg because he's right-handed and likely is going to use his right knee on the ball when deflecting or positioning it. The mesh on the back is to help prevent opposing players from taking out his kicking knee from behind where it's most vulnerable. His left leg actually has the leg zipped off, indicating a lefty would have the option to be switched around, and it reduces drag on his weaker leg. His left arm is padded because when blocking, assuming the opposing team is all right-handed, the ball will be speeding at him on his own left side from the front. His right arm is kept free to less hinder it while making hand passes. You'll notice his "overalls" are actually in two layers, meaning better padding for his abdomen.

Most of it makes sense, really. The only real problem is his hood-like collar.

I can accuse Snow's Buddy Team for looking fucking dumb. I know they probably die or something fairly early on, but goddamn those outfits are fucking awful.

Those aren't Nomura's designs, though. Ikeda did them, along with all the other non-essential NPCs. ;)

[Kim]

Well, you have to consider things like laterality and which limbs a person is most likely to block with. Tidus has a longer right pant leg because he's right-handed and likely is going to use his right knee on the ball when deflecting or positioning it. The mesh on the back is to help prevent opposing players from taking out his kicking knee from behind where it's most vulnerable. His left leg actually has the leg zipped off, indicating a lefty would have the option to be switched around, and it reduces drag on his weaker leg. His left arm is padded because when blocking, assuming the opposing team is all right-handed, the ball will be speeding at him on his own left side from the front. His right arm is kept free to less hinder it while making hand passes. You'll notice his "overalls" are actually in two layers, meaning better padding for his abdomen.

I guarantee you that if blitzball were an actual goddamn sport, they'd have vastly superior ways to do everything you said, and they'd probably look less dumb, too.

Even if Tidus outfit makes sense, it is aesthetically awful.

Those aren't Nomura's designs, though. Ikeda did them, along with all the other non-essential NPCs. ;)

Whatevs. They're still super awful. So goddamn awful.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well, you have to consider things like laterality and which limbs a person is most likely to block with. Tidus has a longer right pant leg because he's right-handed and likely is going to use his right knee on the ball when deflecting or positioning it. The mesh on the back is to help prevent opposing players from taking out his kicking knee from behind where it's most vulnerable. His left leg actually has the leg zipped off, indicating a lefty would have the option to be switched around, and it reduces drag on his weaker leg. His left arm is padded because when blocking, assuming the opposing team is all right-handed, the ball will be speeding at him on his own left side from the front. His right arm is kept free to less hinder it while making hand passes. You'll notice his "overalls" are actually in two layers, meaning better padding for his abdomen.

Most of it makes sense, really. The only real problem is his hood-like collar.

Hahahaha, oh man. I remember in primary school we had to design super advanced costumes for the local rugby team and I did shit like this. It's fucking nonsense.

[Regulus Tera]

Blues.

Blues I just wanted to tell you you're my favourite poster.

[bluestarultor]

Hahahaha, oh man. I remember in primary school we had to design super advanced costumes for the local rugby team and I did shit like this. It's fucking nonsense.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, just relating my interpretation of the justification. You'll notice he has traditional padding sticking out of the short leg of his pants, too. :p


Blues.

Blues I just wanted to tell you you're my favourite poster.

Aww! :o

[Bob The Mercenary]

Had the opportunity to try Final Fantasy XIII a few days early, but only got about two hours in before the game had to be returned.

The short - it's absolutely gorgeous. The cut scenes and character animations are as expected from seeing the trailers. The environments (at least in the opening scenes) are filled with activity going on around you as you progress through the level. As in you'll be running down a corridor as you look up and see a battle taking place above you, as ships crash land around you. At one point you are walking on a lake that was frozen into crystal. Your character's image reflects off of every wave and gets distorted according to the angle.

But, as other reviews have already pointed out, so far this game is a straight line. The first hours I talked about are really a two hour long tutorial filled with running into battles and mashing the X button until it ends (or oh noes you have to use a potion). And there are plenty of potions. In one boss battle I used five of them and still had 25 left in my inventory. I haven't quite made it to the overworld map yet, I'm wondering when exactly that will be.

I'm willing to let the baby step opening battles go if for nothing other than the plot has been engaging (I am now convinced Lightning is the female version of Steven Seagal). The characters are each funny in their own way, but clearly have a deeper story yet to be revealed. Oh, and you effectively have a five character party about an hour in.

The dialogue is clearly anime. The only two people who aren't melodramatic about it are Snow and the guy with the chocobo in his fro. And Hope is scared of absolutely everything. Let's see where this goes. I'm picking my copy up Wednesday, should give me enough time to find out who the Origami Killer is. :)

[greed]

Got it today. It is pretty great so far. Love Lightning and Sahz. Snow's pretty good. Hope.... kinda wish he died and we got his mother on the team instead. Ugh. Vanille alternates between funny and god awful annoying, whenever she tries to say something serious. Horrible VA with her so far at least.

The combat shows promise, as long as it gets harder. Dunno if I've just played too much SMT lately but this seems like way too much tutorial.

Surprised that the loading isn't too bad considering no install. Still makes me wish it was an option at least so there was less.

[Meister]

The only two people who aren't melodramatic about it are Snow and the guy with the chocobo in his fro.
Thank God for that.

Did you play it on a PS3 or 360? Just idly wondering because I keep hearing it CAN'T POSSIBLY look as good on the latter as on the former. And I hear it opens up a bit roughly around the halfway point, which could obviously take a considerable while.

Third time I merged a new FFXIII thread into the existing one, not counting or anything mind you.

[Bob The Mercenary]

Damnit! I went looking again and didn't see this thread. Double sorry, Meister.

I played it at my friend's house on his PS3 in full 1080p and it looked incredible. Though, my copy's going to be on the 360, I'm interested in how different it will be. Especially considering I'll be playing it using component input.

@greed: The only thing Vanille is good for is making me feel like I have to go ahead and have a seat over there.

[Regulus Tera]

The dialogue is clearly anime. The only two people who aren't melodramatic about it are Snow...

"Serah, your hero's on the way!"

"Being a hero is difficult, ain't it?"

A bit paraphrased since I'm trying to forget this trash, bit you get my point.

[bluestarultor]

"Serah, your hero's on the way!"

"Being a hero is difficult, ain't it?"

A bit paraphrased since I'm trying to forget this trash, bit you get my point.

Yeah, he eventually gets better. Actually, all of them do.

I'm picking up my pre-order today after class. Hopefully, the game isn't totally ruined for me because of my time on the FF wiki. :D

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, he eventually gets better. Actually, all of them do.

Do you mean he stops being Naruto?

[bluestarultor]

Do you mean he stops being Naruto?

To put it this way, expect him to get a real kick in the nuts and grow up a bit, if my info is correct. Maybe two kicks.

It's a lot more complicated than that, but there are some major events between individual members of the cast.

[Azisien]

I'm about 12 hours in and the game has improved drastically. I would say its an uphill battle, but FF13 is steadily growing on me. Customization is pretty fun, can't wait for it to open up even more.

They actually managed to take a lot of the good elements of The Last Remnant, because I get that kind of vibe from it. Mix that with an even faster combat system than X-2. I didn't like that at first, nor having minimal control of party members, but I'm adapting.

I'm not even sure if the linearity is bothering me that much anymore. Upon reflection, all FFs are linear until about 75% of the way through. I think FF13 just doesn't give you the illusion of openness. That being said, the one road thing is pretty damn boring. At least they have frequent cut scenes.

of course the storytelling is shit, but its a translated jRPG so I guess it gets a little bit of slack? Nah, it's shit.

Holy hell the game is so pretty.


And for those wondering, I'm playing it on the 360 and compared it to my buddy's PS3 version last night. Both are phenomenally pretty. There's also no performance issues in either version that I've seen. I think I've been well above 30FPS on the 360 version the entire time. Only real downside is the 3 discs vs. 1 disc, but even then, I'm on disc 2 after 12 hours, whoop dee doo.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP I love how hair and clothes actually look like they're WORN by the sprites, instead of just pasted textures on the sprites. I've been waiting a decade to have a game do this and do it well (and me to play it, just in case it's been done before :p)

[Bob The Mercenary]

I'm glad to hear that. The farthest I got before returning the game was just after the fall of the fal'Cie. I guess that amount of play wasn't quite enough to get a good feel of the game as a whole.

Also, where the hell does Vanille get her first weapon from. It looks like she just picks it up off a random spot on the ground. And does Hope ever upgrade from his boomerang? Or does he just get better boomerangs?

[Azisien]

I'm glad to hear that. The farthest I got before returning the game was just after the fall of the fal'Cie. I guess that amount of play wasn't quite enough to get a good feel of the game as a whole.

Also, where the hell does Vanille get her first weapon from. It looks like she just picks it up off a random spot on the ground. And does Hope ever upgrade from his boomerang? Or does he just get better boomerangs?

As far as I am, Hope still uses better boomerangs. Though whether you go for different weapons or start upgrading your first weapons becomes up to you.

And yes, Vanille picks up a random....fishing rod....thing...off a statue in a Pulse fal'Cie.

Even though the game is not interested in telling you anything, it seems to be pointing towards Vanille being from Pulse.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Nice to see this game's getting pretty good after the long tut. I'm starting to look forward to buying this and a 360 (can't afford a PS3 :( ) eventually but hopefully this summer.

[Kerensky287]

About an hour in, my impressions:
-Snow's theme song is awesome.
-I know Lightning is supposed to be based on Cloud but all of her awkward pauses and military ridiculosity reminds me of Squall instead.
-Vanille is really, really annoying. According to the reviews I've read, the entire cast is completely likable by the end of the game, so I'm reserving judgment.
-I hope that by the end of the game I'll be able to use more than 2 attacks per character.
-I honestly can't tell if I'm getting any extended benefit from my battles so far other than 50 potions and 10 phoenix downs.
-When did Sazh and Lightning meet? I mean, he's been following her around as if they're friends but they treat each other like strangers. And I don't think they've been introduced.
-Kinda confused about Snow's jacket. The design on the back disappears when he leaves combat. Is that ever explained?
-I don't know where Hope got his boomerang from. Also, BOOMERANGS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

Will continue sometime in the near future. I just wish they'd let me goddamn level up already.

[Azisien]

About an hour in, my impressions:
-Snow's theme song is awesome.
-I know Lightning is supposed to be based on Cloud but all of her awkward pauses and military ridiculosity reminds me of Squall instead.
-Vanille is really, really annoying. According to the reviews I've read, the entire cast is completely likable by the end of the game, so I'm reserving judgment.
-I hope that by the end of the game I'll be able to use more than 2 attacks per character.
-I honestly can't tell if I'm getting any extended benefit from my battles so far other than 50 potions and 10 phoenix downs.
-When did Sazh and Lightning meet? I mean, he's been following her around as if they're friends but they treat each other like strangers. And I don't think they've been introduced.
-Kinda confused about Snow's jacket. The design on the back disappears when he leaves combat. Is that ever explained?
-I don't know where Hope got his boomerang from. Also, BOOMERANGS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

Will continue sometime in the near future. I just wish they'd let me goddamn level up already.

Yeah you're still in the tutorial. Post new impressions in....5 hours?

[Kerensky287]

WHY THE FUCK IS CHAPTER 3 STILL THE TUTORIAL

[Yumil]

If I could of took back the game for a full refund last night, I would of...it bored the hell out of me for the first 3 hours(had no idea what was going on, battles were just press select, etc...).

Now that I've gotten further, the combat and Sazh are keeping me entertained, but I'm sure plenty of people may shelve it.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

WHY THE FUCK IS CHAPTER 3 STILL THE TUTORIAL
Your almost out of it. Just hang in there a little longer.

[Doc ock rokc]

Is this a Rent or a Buy guys?
I can only buy new games every once and a while so Be picky

[EVILNess]

FYI @ the jacket thing.

That's his "weapon." It is some kind of special symbol that makes him stronger, so instead of new gloves or knuckledusters he gets a symbol on his jacket.

[Yumil]

So, the Wal-Mart I work at sold more 360 copies than ps3 copies on the first day(20 to 15, so it isn't a big difference, but still surprising to me, it wasnt due to stock as we got 24 of each>.<)

I'd like to see the sales figures at the end of the week, it'll be interesting. PS3 will probably still come out on top as if you own both, there's no reason to get the 360 version as in everything but framerate, it's the worse product. I personally bought the 360 since I dont own a ps3(My roommate does, but he wouldnt let me "borrow" it). Frankly, looking at it, it seems to be an extremely lazy port, and I honestly hope it sells very well compared to the PS3 version(not saying over) so that they may actually put some major work in their port of the engine...as it seems to be something they plan on using in future titles.

[Mirai Gen]

Roommate went to get his on midnight launch.

There were like almost a hundred people there, and only one of them wanted the 360 version.

So, yeah. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Is this a Rent or a Buy guys?
I can only buy new games every once and a while so Be picky

Depends entirely on rather or not you can sit through 3 hours gameplay time worth of tut after tut.

Rent it first. Then buy it if you like it.

[Yumil]

Roommate went to get his on midnight launch.

There were like almost a hundred people there, and only one of them wanted the 360 version.

So, yeah. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I sell more arcade 360's to people whod rather have a ps3 but dont want to save the $100 more for one.

It's probably my area.

[Lost in Time]

The only reason that someone would want the 360 version is that they don't own a PS3. That was my position.

Anyway, just 3 hours in, and I'm liking it. I enjoy Snow. Vanille does alternate between me smiling a little bit and wanting her punched. Speaking of punching, I laugh every time Lightning punches someone, hope she does it more through the game. Also I agree that I would have wanted Hope's Mom instead of Hope.

Linearity doesn't bother me, as most games are. And the tutorials aren't bad, they really go easy into letting you feel comfortable with the battle system, which I like. If they threw me into the first battle and said "Here's everything, have at it!" I probably would have gave up.

Can't wait to get out of work to play it some more.

[Azisien]

I actually got the 360 version to support their decision to go multiplatform with it. And because I don't like the couch where my PS3 is. :p

[Lost in Time]

But now you need to get up every 20 hours to switch disks! That's no way to beat laziness!

[Bonepart]

I picked up the 360 version because it's my preferred console to play on. If something comes out for both I usually get the 360 one :)

I only managed to play for 4 hours last night, so I'm still in Chapter 3 :D

[bluestarultor]

Okay, I have to say that despite my time on the FF wiki, there was just so much I didn't know, it's amazing. I was pleasantly surprised. Was watching Phantom play last night. The only issues I had with it are:

1.) Georgia Van Cuylenburg might be a great comedian (never heard of her before this game), but she has no VA experience and Vanille is really inconsistent, especially at first. She seems to improve a bit after a while.

2.) Being mostly linear doesn't bother me. It's a JRPG and the scenery is gorgeous, and shops at every save point is convenient as hell. Also, who's going to sell to l'Cie in person, anyway? Fuck towns, they're always 90% empty space. There's nothing wrong with the setup.

HOWEVER. It really feels like there's no place to stop and rest for as far as we've played. Save points abound, but you never seem to reach a point where it feels right to stop, which leads to you feeling just as fatigued as the characters, who are literally falling over at the point we left off. I really don't mind the tutorials, in fact, I think it's handled well, but the entire tutorial portion is written without any sort of pause and a driving pace, like being tied to the back of a moving truck, and the driver isn't stopping regardless of how exhausted you're getting. I get that it's all supposed to be roughly continuous with the occasional flashback, but, you know, they only ever stop to take a breather once, and even then, you have Lightning operating like a machine and running off, which is where Phantom and I finally said fuck it and went to sleep with as much of the party together as possible.



Don't get me wrong, the game's been nothing short of amazing so far, with some pretty good writing and some actually good party banter along the way. That alone is worth a gold medal. The systems being slowly introduced has been really helpful and I helped Phantom figure out the full depth of the battle system available to us long before it was properly introduced, which is great, because he's already whipping it out like a pro and just having the option for more advanced players is great. The ability to continue the game from right before you entered battle is awesome, as are all the special items you can use to improve your chances in battle before you enter the fight. Potions healing the whole party sounds too easy, but it's amazingly balanced. The Paradigm Shift system works amazingly well. Battle is fast-paced and challenging without being overwhelming. The game is aesthetically GLORIOUS. Crystarium takes the idea of the Sphere Grid system and makes it beautiful and even easier to move around in, letting you put points literally in the direction of any node branching from a lit one, even without being able to reach it all at once, and CP is relatively easy to come by. The fact that your party members grow even without being in battle means you don't have to worry about them seriously lagging behind so long as they're tagging along (we have yet to see if members not present see this benefit, but I'd guess not).

The entire game is nothing but glorious except for those two issues. If you have the stamina, it's definitely worth a look, if not a buy.

[EVILNess]

Okay, made it to chapter 4, and then stopped. My opinions so far...

Snow... is slightly annoying and very loud. Also kinda whiny. 2nd least favorite character.

Vanille... is Riku on crack, with a British sounding accent. I don't hate her at all, surprisingly. Probably cause of Sazh. I am totally calling that she is from Pulse right here, right now because of the weird Yevon prayer thing she does with her hands and a few other things.

Hope... is a little bitch. I hate him so far.

Sazh... is my hero. I love him so much, best character in the game so far. He makes a great foil for Vanille since she is like SUPER HAPPY POSITIVE and then Sazh looks at her and is all like "Yeah, we are probably gonna die."

Lightning... I am not sure how to quantify her yet, she hasn't really done anything but scowl, frown, kick a few soldiers ass, and then walk off leaving everyone behind.

Not missing the towns at all, great story, and I am kinda having fun putting the pieces of what the hell is going on together. The only things I don't like so far is that is Lightning dies its game over and Hope. Overall, glad I decided to ignore all the bad things I heard and buy it.

[Mirai Gen]

Watching my roommate play it. Looks pretty fun. I'm kinda glad I can go into the living room while he's playing it and see that he's fighting something 90% of the time instead of faffing about in towns.

Found out character switching doesn't get unlocked till Chapter Eleven. Jesus. Overkill much?

[Azisien]

The level-up system bugs me a bit. I don't mind that it's just wacky-crystal version of a sphere grid, sphere grids are okay. I don't like how the game decides what level I can be at. I don't even grind that much but I find my characters generally maxed out and sitting there with CP, waiting for the next boss fight so the game deems fit that my grid can be expanded.

[bluestarultor]

Watching my roommate play it. Looks pretty fun. I'm kinda glad I can go into the living room while he's playing it and see that he's fighting something 90% of the time instead of faffing about in towns.

Found out character switching doesn't get unlocked till Chapter Eleven. Jesus. Overkill much?

I have a third complaint and it is in this line of thought. I really don't mind the game deciding your party for a while, because it's mostly handled well and everyone still gains CP, even when they're not along with the characters you're following.

That said, I haven't played Snow in literal hours and my estimates say he's got somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 CP built up at the moment. Also, that's a lie, because they give you control of him for a segment that lasts all of a minute of actual play between cutscenes. IN A FLASHBACK WHERE HE'S NOT A L'CIE YET AND EVERY CHARACTER-BASED MENU OPTION IS GRAYED OUT.

Again, no real issues with letting the game decide your party until you have the hang of things. FF9 did the same thing and I loved the game. I just wish that the past couple times I got to see Snow again, I could have done something with him, rather than just watch two empty story sequences.

It's not the worst complaint in the world, really. The focus on Lightning and Hope is interesting, with Lightning realizing how messed up he is at the moment, but not really having any right to say much because she knows she's just as bad. Sazh and Vanille interact in interesting ways and the Chocobo is a great addition in its cute innocence and copying Vanille even verbally. It's not like they're not filling the game well. It's just that Snow really hasn't endeared himself to me because of his inane stubbornness whenever he's not shown with Serah. Normally, I don't mind stubborn, but Snow takes it to a level where he ignores objective reality and really doesn't win any points with the rest of the cast and I want to smack him for it, inasmuch as it would probably have all the effect of several other people already doing so. He's better in the flashbacks, though, so I expect him to redeem himself. He just needs to get the screen time to do it and he hasn't yet, and it's annoying not having been able to play him for so long.

[Regulus Tera]

Chapter 5 here. I can start to see the enemies become hp sinks.

These dungeons bore the fuck out of me.

[Azisien]

Chapter 5 here. I can start to see the enemies become hp sinks.

Definitely they do. Teams pretty much have to be built to stagger efficiently, otherwise battles will take a looooong time.

[Regulus Tera]

Definitely they do. Teams pretty much have to be built to stagger efficiently, otherwise battles will take a looooong time.

Problem is when you finally stagger them only to fuck all that hard work up because shit you gotta heal now. It's a cockblock.

I don't even know why I'm still playing. I guess the battles are sort of fun but the tediousness/fun ratio is seriously starting to accelerate. I wish I could care about the characters but they are all a bunch of annoying pricks. The setting interesting, but they've hardly dwelled on the world. Rant rant rant if the first five chapters are anything to go by this game is barely worth a rental.

[Azisien]

Problem is when you finally stagger them only to fuck all that hard work up because shit you gotta heal now. It's a cockblock.

Hm, pretty sure it gets better, or you just get better. I had trouble juggling paradigm shift and strategy during combat too, but doesn't take long to get used to shifting constantly. Alternatively, just pop a potion or two while your team pounds away at staggered opponents if its that bad.

Alternatively alternatively, fill stagger bar close to full, have a paradigm with Commando to keep it draining slow but avoiding stagger, and a Medic to heal up. Then switch back to a nuking paradigm.

[Bonepart]

These dungeons bore the fuck out of me.

I'm starting to have this problem as well. Having the game be linear is one thing, but it's something else when dungeons are entire chapters and last an Hour+

[bluestarultor]

Have any of you started upgrading weaponry yet? It can help a ton. Keep in mind that you'll want to upgrade the weaponry that's most useful to you at the time, because you're going to be using the same roles for a while.

Also, keep in mind the most useful roles per character. Sazh does wonderfully once you stick him in Commando. It may SOUND like he's weaker than most, but you also have to consider that he hits twice for every attack. Also, he does more damage with Ruin than Vanille does with elemental magics where I'm at, which is saying a lot, because she's one of the best mages in the game.

Also, don't underestimate the Synergist and Saboteur roles. They can help a ton.

Maybe it's just because I can tolerate more grind, but I'm not really having issues with the dungeons.



Edit: Oh, my GOD, this game has the best incarnation of Quake EVER!

Sorry, just had to say that. Very little hits the whole field in this game, and using Quake takes only one TP, just like Libra, but kicks so much ass, it's almost a crime. Just bear in mind it still doesn't hit flying enemies. It also looks validly like a disaster. Not just some little shaking effect with maybe a bit of dirt showing. We're talking the very land exploding into pillars of earth until you see nothing but particle effects and have to wait for the dust to settle. This is an ability to strike fear into the hearts of your enemies.

Edit again: Hmmm. Much more impressive with many enemies and they're all scattered about. I guess the pillars of dirt on blow up underneath them.

[Ape Boy]

I hate Hope. Fuck that little emo shit.

I'm a bit into chapter 4, no huge complaints from me. I kinda don't like how Fire/Aero have been reduced to colored balls. If I wanted colored balls for magic, I'd LARP.

...But again, fuck that emo shit.

[bluestarultor]

I've seen up to chapter 6. Phantom seems to have played into chapter 7 without me, and Hope gets over himself a bit there, apparently. Also, you finally get Snow again.

I'd kill Phantom for leaving me out of the story, but then I'd have to start over, anyway, so I didn't miss anything.

[Lost in Time]

Running through Chapter 6 right now, where enemies actually start to become tough. Also, when the game told me to "Steer clear of these tough enemies" I said "Fuck you!" and killed them out of spite. Also with the Weather change system, abusing that to rack up CP. Not that it matters because I keep maxing them out.

[Bob The Mercenary]

Finally unwrapped my XBox copy after spending night after night playing Battlefield Bad Company 2. To put this in perspective, I first played this game on my friend's PS3 in full 1080p on his 30-inch HD. Now I am stuck playing it on my 20-inch flatscreen in standard def (red/white/yellow). It still plays the same, I notice zero slowdown in loading or battle transitions, but the graphics obviously suffered greatly. I mean, the cut scenes are still amazing, but the gameplay graphics got nothing on blu-ray.

Everyone keeps trying to convince me to buy a PS3 using MAG/FF13/Heavy Rain as an excuse. When I tell them that A) I own no blu-ray movies B) all of my friends are on XBox Live C) I'm not buying a system for the sake of one game D) I'm not buying an HD TV so I can in turn buy a system for one game and E) two of my friends have PS3s which they will readily let me borrow, they look at me like I'm from another planet.

[bluestarultor]

Finally unwrapped my XBox copy after spending night after night playing Battlefield Bad Company 2. To put this in perspective, I first played this game on my friend's PS3 in full 1080p on his 30-inch HD. Now I am stuck playing it on my 20-inch flatscreen in standard def (red/white/yellow). It still plays the same, I notice zero slowdown in loading or battle transitions, but the graphics obviously suffered greatly. I mean, the cut scenes are still amazing, but the gameplay graphics got nothing on blu-ray.

Everyone keeps trying to convince me to buy a PS3 using MAG/FF13/Heavy Rain as an excuse. When I tell them that A) I own no blu-ray movies B) all of my friends are on XBox Live C) I'm not buying a system for the sake of one game D) I'm not buying an HD TV so I can in turn buy a system for one game and E) two of my friends have PS3s which they will readily let me borrow, they look at me like I'm from another planet.

Buy an HDTV and a high-def cable for your 360?

[Bob The Mercenary]

Buy an HDTV and a high-def cable for your 360?

My 360 is an older version with no HD output. :( Only component. I even tried a friend's component cables and they weren't compatible. I'm going to try Gamestop tomorrow for some third party cables.

[Donomni]

Loving the game. Only flaws I find are that the camera outside of battle seems real... floaty, I guess? I seem to just move it around a hell of a lot to just make sure I didn't miss any treasure.

Another flaw is that most of the interactions between characters seem to be a bit too much spelled out in the datalog instead of cutscenes, although that might just be me on that one(Can't read subtle emotions for shit).

Also, Sach is the best character ever dammit.

Oh, and before I forget, the PS3 version has a code for a FFXIV item, as well as THE PS3 BETA HOLY SHIT. (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126812287631926867&num=68&page=1)

Gonna put mine in, fer sure.

[Regulus Tera]

Chapter 5 End Spoilers:

Hope: "Operation Nora. Stage One complete."

I wanna rip my ears out and shove them down my throat.

[bluestarultor]

Chapter 5 End Spoilers:

Hope: "Operation Nora. Stage One complete."

I wanna rip my ears out and shove them down my throat.

You'll feel better by the end of chapter 6. Trust me.

We're currently on 7, but Phantom is sleeping before work and I'm not going to hear the end of it if I play ahead without him. HE can play ahead, but his offer was that I could start a new game. :shifty:

[Regulus Tera]

Chapter 6 is cute even if it makes me believe that Sazh is the most incompetent father ever. Then I get to chapter 7 and Hope starts his "pets" rant and all the goodwill I had in me vanishes.

I know Final Fantasy has never been known for its subtlety, but there's "being straight-forward" and then there's "getting hit with melodrama the size of an anvil".

[Kerensky287]

Even with Hope and Vanille around, I still find the cast of FF13 to be surprisingly believable. Take Lightning for example. Yes, she was a TOTAL bitch at the start of the game, but she seems to have softened a bit by now. I mean, it's quite striking when it goes for a flashback and Lightning pulls some shit like "This is the worst birthday ever". Then she comes back to the present, Hope goes on some stupid tangent like "I HAVE TO GET STRONGER SO I CAN AVENGE MY MOTHER, THIS PLAN IS CALLED OPERATION NORA. MY MOMS NAME WAS NORA BTW." And Lightning just doesn't comment.

Vanille would be believable if she would tone down the ditzyness. I'm half expecting it all to turn out to be an act later on - like, she pretended to be shallow so no one would get to know her or something - because at this point she's just ARGH.

Sazh is great, Lightning is good if familiar, Snow is great when he's not obsessing over Sarah, and Fang is good from what I've seen of her (which admittedly isn't much).

Regarding weapon levels - does anyone else find it to be almost inhibiting? I keep finding weapons for my characters, but I've spend so much on the weapons they're already holding that there's no reason to switch.

[bluestarultor]

Even with Hope and Vanille around, I still find the cast of FF13 to be surprisingly believable. Take Lightning for example. Yes, she was a TOTAL bitch at the start of the game, but she seems to have softened a bit by now. I mean, it's quite striking when it goes for a flashback and Lightning pulls some shit like "This is the worst birthday ever". Then she comes back to the present, Hope goes on some stupid tangent like "I HAVE TO GET STRONGER SO I CAN AVENGE MY MOTHER, THIS PLAN IS CALLED OPERATION NORA. MY MOMS NAME WAS NORA BTW." And Lightning just doesn't comment.

Vanille would be believable if she would tone down the ditzyness. I'm half expecting it all to turn out to be an act later on - like, she pretended to be shallow so no one would get to know her or something - because at this point she's just ARGH.

Sazh is great, Lightning is good if familiar, Snow is great when he's not obsessing over Sarah, and Fang is good from what I've seen of her (which admittedly isn't much).

Regarding weapon levels - does anyone else find it to be almost inhibiting? I keep finding weapons for my characters, but I've spend so much on the weapons they're already holding that there's no reason to switch.

On weaponry, it's much better to only upgrade what you're actually going to use. Resources are scarce in this game, both components and Gil. Weaponry seems to fall into four categories:
- high ATK, low MAG
- balanced ATK and MAG
- low ATK, high MAG
- low ATK, low MAG, special effect

Depending on your needs and each character, some just make more sense than others, especially at first. Don't waste your components upgrading every weapon. You will quickly run out. Also, be as thorough as possible in searching for stuff, because they were REALLY tricky with the AI and party banter. Your NPC allies will rush off on the straight path through, ignoring all the hidden areas, dead ends, and alternate paths that hold chests, and let me tell you, having to buy a weapon after missing it is a good way to wipe out every last Gil you own. Just one can break your bank. Also, don't get dissuaded when your party members say something like, "What, we're going back?" when you try to backtrack. In some cases, there IS no going back and there's an item there, so yeah, the devs made sure to fuck with you.


On Vanille, I will only say she is not what she seems and you'll get to see that later.

[Ape Boy]

I'm into chapter 5 now. I like how every character seems to be working on their designed personality flaws.

Lightning was a bitch, shows a maternal side, start to like her more. Sazh seemed incompetent and aloof, learn he's got some depth beyond the quips, start to like him more. That sort of thing.

Still don't like Hope at all. I roll my eyes everytime Vanille talks, but I still don't hate her yet.

In related news:

How do you tell an entire group to "douche-chill" at once? (http://kotaku.com/5492071/final-fantasy-fans-are-far-too-sensitive-about-the-xbox-360)

Like Square-Enix has never developed for other platforms before or owe their company to Sony. Fuck that noise.

[bluestarultor]

I'm into chapter 5 now. I like how every character seems to be working on their designed personality flaws.

Lightning was a bitch, shows a maternal side, start to like her more. Sazh seemed incompetent and aloof, learn he's got some depth beyond the quips, start to like him more. That sort of thing.

Still don't like Hope at all. I roll my eyes everytime Vanille talks, but I still don't hate her yet.

In related news:

How do you tell an entire group to "douche-chill" at once? (http://kotaku.com/5492071/final-fantasy-fans-are-far-too-sensitive-about-the-xbox-360)

Like Square-Enix has never developed for other platforms before or owe their company to Sony. Fuck that noise.

It's Europe. Their first FF release ever was FF7 on the PS1. So, yeah, they DO think it's a betrayal. They've never had the series on anything else.


That said, yay, fanboys? I mean, you have all the Wii fanboys ragging on the Move for being *gasp* a handheld motion controller and therefore an exact rip on the Wii, and Reggie sure as hell isn't helping by spouting broad accusations that Sony and Microsoft are ripping off motion controls and should be ashamed and how Nintendo is really going to blow the market out of the water with their next console they're not even planning yet and generally being a smarmy dick and giving millions of sensible people the urge to punch him in the face. Then I'm sure there are Microsoft fans who are spouting the superiority of Natal, confirmed people generally ignoring that Sony had the EyeToy YEARS ago (and often confusing it with the PS3 Eye), and basically everyone sniping at the other sides because they think their console choice is the best.


Edit: Considering starting that new file, just to play. If I didn't have to have an English assignment in by Monday, I totally would right now. Phantom hasn't played any further since last night before work and I needs mah fix. :p

[Ape Boy]

It's Europe. Their first FF release ever was FF7 on the PS1. So, yeah, they DO think it's a betrayal. They've never had the series on anything else.

No excuse for being douches. Not like Europe doesn't have the intrawebs to spend twelve seconds on to find out it existed elsewhere.

You'd think if they like the series so much, they'd want the franchise/company to be successful as possible. With as bad as the economy is in most places, everyone needs to get what they can however they can get it, including consumer businesses. Shit, you'd think that crowd would just be happy enough to get a free game console and awesome game.

[Bells]

It seems the REAL beef was that the game was advertised on the US with just the 360 Logo and not the PS3 logo. And also the whole "360 owners get free avatar items", but that was before the whole "PS3 owners get FF14 free item when they register their FF13"

[bluestarultor]

No excuse for being douches. Not like Europe doesn't have the intrawebs to spend twelve seconds on to find out it existed elsewhere.

You'd think if they like the series so much, they'd want the franchise/company to be successful as possible. With as bad as the economy is in most places, everyone needs to get what they can however they can get it, including consumer businesses. Shit, you'd think that crowd would just be happy enough to get a free game console and awesome game.

You're assuming humans are rational creatures. And I thought I was innocent. :p

I'm joking, but really, fanboys and fangirls transcend all logic and sensibility in their rabid devotion to a single object. Console fanatics will bitch about any console that's not their favorite, game fanatics will rabidly maul anyone who tries to point out a flaw, etc. These are people who have delved into full-on obsession and don't listen to reason anymore.

[Ape Boy]

You're assuming humans are rational creatures. And I thought I was innocent. :p

I'm joking, but really, fanboys and fangirls transcend all logic and sensibility in their rabid devotion to a single object. Console fanatics will bitch about any console that's not their favorite, game fanatics will rabidly maul anyone who tries to point out a flaw, etc. These are people who have delved into full-on obsession and don't listen to reason anymore.

You are 100% correct sir, a gentleman and a scholar. I'm just saying I don't give them douche-pass for fanboyism. I think it actually ups their admissions application to Douche Academy.

...And I have copyrighted Douche Academy now. I am owed a quarter everytime someone uses it.

[krogothwolf]

Does Hope ever grow up and get off his "Snow's fault for everything" crap? Seriously. I just want to slap the little shit. Chapter 5 and I just listened to him blame snow for everything and was hoping lightning would bitch slap him, but nope, she didn't. He really pisses me off. I enjoy the other characters but him. I hated controlling him because he bugs me so much :(

[bluestarultor]

Does Hope ever grow up and get off his "Snow's fault for everything" crap? Seriously. I just want to slap the little shit. Chapter 5 and I just listened to him blame snow for everything and was hoping lightning would bitch slap him, but nope, she didn't. He really pisses me off. I enjoy the other characters but him. I hated controlling him because he bugs me so much :(

He gets over Snow by the end of chapter 6.


Speaking of crap we don't like, Phantom may have put down the game for the foreseeable future due to a somewhat bullshit boss battle. Apparently, your fight with Galenth's true form involves a really tough battle in the first place and then also something that either kicks in automatically or happens as an attack that makes your Gestalt bar drain before your eyes. He couldn't give me any details because he doesn't know what happened, so I asked on the boss talk page on the FF wiki. Hopefully, someone will figure out exactly what happened and add it to the battle tactics, because he's never put down a game he's liked over one thing before.

[krogothwolf]

He aced me with Destrudo the first time I tried him. I rarely use Eidolons though, so I never had him do that to me. a Rentless Assault on him makes the fight easier in the second phase as it limits the damage of the attack.

[bluestarultor]

He aced me with Destrudo the first time I tried him. I rarely use Eidolons though, so I never had him do that to me. a Rentless Assault on him makes the fight easier in the second phase as it limits the damage of the attack.

Yeah. The wiki page says nothing about summoning in the battle, and he got pretty far without doing so using an alternative tactic to the one suggested, but he just couldn't win and the Gestalt bar just took the cake. Guessing from the sounds, he had to force himself to set the controller down before he threw it.

Who did you use, BTW? It might help him to have a tactic he knows another real person used.

[krogothwolf]

Lightning, Sazh and Hope. I followed this guys strategy, Didn't get the 5 star but I did beat it.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/detail.php?board=928790&topic=53854576&message=593191913

It was funny, up until that point there wasn't a single hard boss fight at all. And Hope improved after his stupidity. I've been playing pretty much nonstop today lol.

[Regulus Tera]

I find it hilarious how the original trailer's battle scene became a fucking cutscene.

[32bit-RedMage]

So ... I've heard there's no cool antagonist in this game.
Is that true ? :(

[krogothwolf]

So ... I've heard there's no cool antagonist in this game.
Is that true ? :(

The antagonist isn't bad, but it doesn't seem to focus on the story that much right now. You don't really follow around the enemy as much in this one as you did the others. Least thats how it looks to me. The Sanctum leader guy isn't a bad main Villain though, but the story is focused mostly on the heroes.

[Regulus Tera]

This game's Cid is the most boring Cid since FFVI Cid.

So ... I've heard there's no cool antagonist in this game.
Is that true ? :(

They're underdeveloped, and two of the villains get offed way too quickly.

[greed]

Basically character wise it's the inverse of FF12

13
Predominantly younger cast with a old guy dragged along.
Well developed heroes
Under developed villains
One boring Cid

12
Predominantly older cast with some tag along older teens
Underdeveloped heroes
Well developed villains
TWO awesome Cids.

Both star a stoic brooding female protagonist though.

[krogothwolf]

Basically character wise it's the inverse of FF12

13
Predominantly younger cast with a old guy dragged along.
Well developed heroes
Under developed villains
One boring Cid

12
Predominantly older cast with some tag along older teens
Underdeveloped heroes
Well developed villains
TWO awesome Cids.

Both star a stoic brooding female protagonist though.

Yeah that is pretty much how it looks. It i sort of aggravating in FF XIII because of the lack of a goal in general for the characters for the first 7 or so chapters. They just kind of run around either fleeing the enemy or chasing them. The lack of a real goal and a real enemy bugged me. Least with almost every other FF you actually have an enemy you are after.

Although Al-Cid is apparently not an official Cid.

[MFD]

My brother just got everyone made l'Cie. He's waiting for Red XIII to show up.

I find that the plot is alot easier to follow early on with a little primer that I made myself. NB: I'm not sure if I'm right.

fal'Cie = Espers
l'Cie = Mages

[bluestarultor]

My brother just got everyone made l'Cie. He's waiting for Red XIII to show up.

I only wish. I see the lack of such a character as the ultimate missed opportunity of the game. :(

I find that the plot is alot easier to follow early on with a little primer that I made myself. NB: I'm not sure if I'm right.

fal'Cie = Espers
l'Cie = Mages

It's more like:

l'Cie = FF4 Summoners
fal'Cie = demigods

[Regulus Tera]

Steelguard! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9rqZfrzCak)

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Steelguard! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9rqZfrzCak)

That was enjoyable. I agree with that commenter. Steel guard is Snow's official catch phrase for now on. XD

[Regulus Tera]

Ending spoilers:

"Hey, no matter what happens, we can't kill Orphan because that would be bad and stuff."

"Right. Also, we need to reiterate this decision for every cutscene for the next 2 hours."

*party gets to Orphan*

"Fuck it, let's kill him."

the ending was pretty awful. Especially the part where everyone got turned to Ci'eth or however the fuck you spell it, and they all turned back to normal because of the infinite power of positive thoughts! At that point I was hoping that the Maker would come back and be all like "yeah I turned them back because you're being kind of a dick, Orphan" or something because that would've been less dumb.

[bluestarultor]

It's more that anyone can theoretically will themselves back to normal from Cie'th, and Cid Raines almost did beforehand, from what I've read. They basically just were able to take advantage of that.

[Ape Boy]

I figured out the thing I hate most about the game, besides Hope. It's not even a part of the game itself.

...Square Enix, could you have picked a gayer song for the commercial? Even if you tried?

I mean, in the big scheme of things, it's good that it's the worst thing about the game, but c'mon. All this great action going on and you back with some sappy love-pop shit?

[Regulus Tera]

Okay if I had to rate the stories of the FFs I've played immediately after finishing the game it would be:

Tactics > VI > XII > VII > IX > IV > V > X > XIII > VIII > III > I

BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE ROLL IN HERE

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I figured out the thing I hate most about the game, besides Hope. It's not even a part of the game itself.

...Square Enix, could you have picked a gayer song for the commercial? Even if you tried?

I mean, in the big scheme of things, it's good that it's the worst thing about the game, but c'mon. All this great action going on and you back with some sappy love-pop shit?

Wow kinda surprised that was the worst part of the game (I enjoyed "My hands".)

[Kerensky287]

...> VII > IX > ...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H_G1wm10Q9o/RuKCaYNcZpI/AAAAAAAAA6o/bMKxruIU0NQ/s320/PicardWTF.jpg

[Regulus Tera]

They actually switch places depending on the house of the moon. I think IX's was a lot more charming, but disc four and three are really inconsistent with what was set up in disc one and two.

[Borealis]

I'm feels like I'm on Endgame, 'cause I can finally choose who's in my party, but there's a whole disc left. We're off to kill the Primarch, the horrible Primarch of 'Coon!

[krogothwolf]

Okay if I had to rate the stories of the FFs I've played immediately after finishing the game it would be:

Tactics > VI > XII > VII > IX > IV > V > X > XIII > VIII > III > I

BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE ROLL IN HERE

What, no love for mystic quest?

[bluestarultor]

What, no love for mystic quest?

Or II, either. He is now obligated to play it as punishment for rating X below VII, V, and IX.

Don't get me wrong, I loved IX, and if VII had been about Red XIII, it would have quite possibly been the best game ever (Cloud ruined Aeris' death, but I cried for both major developments in Red's story). But V? Really? Maybe I just didn't stick around long enough, but the characters were paper-thin and just as flat as far as I dragged myself through, leaving me with the feeling they were utterly interchangeable. I understand they got development later on just from hanging around FF Wiki, but Christ, I got bored with it and went back to playing Chrono Cross.

[Jagos]

Cloud ruined Aeris' death
By growing up and moving on before the Big Bad Boss fight?

[32bit-RedMage]

Why do people hate FFII so much ? The game is pretty cool !
I admit that the "level up" system is a huge pain in the ass..... but ....
It has a good story, it has a real plotline and also lots of interaction with villains and other characters. It's true that the story is a bit cliche at times... but still, it's pretty good for NES standards.
The music and the graphics are better than FFI's.


What, no love for mystic quest?
Long live the mystic quest !

[krogothwolf]

I'd have to say it's mainly because of the level system people rag on it. That's my only grip with it. God I hated that system. I had huge attack at one point but meager HP because nothing hit me, then got to a boss and one hit killed me because of that. So lame.

If they complain about cliche story I woulld like someone to tell me what FF isn't a cliche'd story at times.

[32bit-RedMage]

I'd have to say it's mainly because of the level system people rag on it. That's my only grip with it. God I hated that system. I had huge attack at one point but meager HP because nothing hit me, then got to a boss and one hit killed me because of that. So lame.

True.

It was really annoying.... getting good stats was a huge pain in the ass!
I remember staying in places where monsters were weak and having my party members attack and heal each other in every battle. (It's the only way to get good HP and defense)
I also remember that near the end of the game you learn the strongest spell.
It was ultima or holy, or something like that. It was supposed to be the strongest spell in the game, but since you learn the level 1 version of it and you have to level up all your spells in order to actually do some damage... it was the crappiest thing ever.
If I remember correctly I used it against the final boss ... and could only deal 15 points of damage. :sweatdrop


If they complain about cliche story I woulld like someone to tell me what FF isn't a cliche'd story at times
Also true.

[bluestarultor]

By growing up and moving on before the Big Bad Boss fight?

No, by completely delving into narm (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm) territory. His speech was just so overdone that it ruined the impact of the moment for me. His mortal enemy just killed the woman who mystified and beguiled him, so he held her as she died in his arms, laid her gently to rest, and immediately unleashed his emotion-laden revenge on her kil-AHAHAHA, no, he sat there holding her for ten minutes going on about how she was dead while Sephiroth just stood there calling him an idiot before waltzing out sans one instant-boss tentacle.

On the other hand, when Buenhagen died, Red showed an actual resistance to the idea, an unwillingness to accept the loss of the only person he had left, acting as if by refusing to accept or allow it, it could be avoided, and lamenting in simple terms when he realized he was powerless, ending the scene with a single, baleful howl, which said so much more than any of what Cloud came out with.

Cloud handled Aeris' death with immediate acceptance and dialogue so bad that THE MAIN VILLAIN called it out as bullshit, where Red's reaction to Bugenhagen's death was so much more human and heart-wrenching.

Why do people hate FFII so much ? The game is pretty cool !
I admit that the "level up" system is a huge pain in the ass..... but ....
It has a good story, it has a real plotline and also lots of interaction with villains and other characters. It's true that the story is a bit cliche at times... but still, it's pretty good for NES standards.
The music and the graphics are better than FFI's.

While it was technically superior in nearly every way, it tried to do too much all at once and misstepped the execution on a lot of it. Natural growth could have been good if it had been handled a bit better. To level spells up, you had to use them hundreds of times, which was prohibitive given your low MP. It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if your stat growth hadn't been so pathetic, so the game essentially expects you to ride off the seat of your pants to get anywhere. Then there was the weapon proficiency system, not a bad idea, if it hadn't prevented you from actually specializing in a weapon. But no, to get anywhere with one weapon after the third level, you had to work on other weapons, meaning your party would usually be operating with sub-optimal equipment. Then there was the illusion of an open map, only instead of walls, they blocked areas off with battles far beyond your party's abilities, so the only way you knew not to go somewhere was by dying and reloading. Not to mention the fact that there were also places you HAD to go where the enemies would crush you like bugs. On top of that, the keyword system turned the game into a protracted chore of rubbing every word you came across on every NPC one by one like a bad adventure game in hopes they'd reward you with more than just a different bit of text. These are all things that could have worked if they'd been handled better, or would have been forgivable if done alone, but the game was a hodgepodge of poor execution to the point that most people didn't get far enough for the story to actually unfold.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

No, by completely delving into narm (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm) territory. His speech was just so overdone that it ruined the impact of the moment for me. His mortal enemy just killed the woman who mystified and beguiled him, so he held her as she died in his arms, laid her gently to rest, and immediately unleashed his emotion-laden revenge on her kil-AHAHAHA, no, he sat there holding her for ten minutes going on about how she was dead while Sephiroth just stood there calling him an idiot before waltzing out sans one instant-boss tentacle.


It's good to know that the adequate approach to troubling times is cathartic violence.
And oh no, I'm not doing what the villain thinks I should do! I must be doing things wrong!

[krogothwolf]

I didn't really find his speech that out of place, considering Sephiroth was giving his speech as well, it seemed to fit then going all rageahol on Sephiroth because Aerith died. Also, Sephiroth called bullshit on his feelings, not his speech. It really wasn't immediate acceptence, it was more along the lines of things he'll be missing of her.

[Regulus Tera]

Or II, either. He is now obligated to play it as punishment for rating X below VII, V, and IX.

I mentioned only the ones I finished to completion. Objectively speaking XI would be in the third or fourth place, but since I never finished that crap it's not there.

Don't get me wrong, I loved IX, and if VII had been about Red XIII, it would have quite possibly been the best game ever (Cloud ruined Aeris' death, but I cried for both major developments in Red's story). But V? Really? Maybe I just didn't stick around long enough, but the characters were paper-thin and just as flat as far as I dragged myself through, leaving me with the feeling they were utterly interchangeable. I understand they got development later on just from hanging around FF Wiki, but Christ, I got bored with it and went back to playing Chrono Cross.

V has the decency to not get all sappy and melodramatic. It may be the most contrived piece of shit ever, but it is a brief and fun piece of shit.

More games should be like V.

[Kerensky287]

V has the decency to not get all sappy and melodramatic. It may be the most contrived piece of shit ever, but it is a brief and fun piece of shit.

I find it ironic that you say this having rated IV above V.

Dark Knight Cecil: "I'm a dark knight but I don't right killing all these people but I have to be loyal to the king so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Paladin Cecil: "My girlfriend has been kidnapped she is my life my hope how will I ever live without her I am saaaaad. :'("

Later on, Paladin Cecil: "It turns out I'm from the moon I'm fighting my older brother I don't fit in also I don't want to kill my brother but I have no choice so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Kain: "My best friend is in love with the woman I want to be with also I got mind controlled and had to fight him for a while so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

Edward: "My girlfriend is dead also I am a spoony bard so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

etc etc etc

[Regulus Tera]

I find it ironic that you say this having rated IV above V.

Dark Knight Cecil: "I'm a dark knight but I don't right killing all these people but I have to be loyal to the king so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Paladin Cecil: "My girlfriend has been kidnapped she is my life my hope how will I ever live without her I am saaaaad. :'("

Later on, Paladin Cecil: "It turns out I'm from the moon I'm fighting my older brother I don't fit in also I don't want to kill my brother but I have no choice so I'm saaaaaad. :'("

Kain: "My best friend is in love with the woman I want to be with also I got mind controlled and had to fight him for a while so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

Edward: "My girlfriend is dead also I am a spoony bard so I'm saaaaaaad. :'("

etc etc etc

I know it's ironic, but even then I have to admit there's almost nothing to hang on to FFV's plot. It is non-existent, although non-intrusive. And for all the melodrama FFIV contains, it never is teeth-grinding or overplayed, unlike later titles in the series.

[EVILNess]

I'm still before chapter 11 where the game opens up, but I am still digging it. The linearity isn't as bad as people have been saying, and definitely no worse than X up to Zanarkand.

My favorite numbered Final Fantasy would probably have to be V, because of the Job system followed by 8 for gameplay reasons and having some of my most favorite boss battles ever.

[Kim]

I'll say what I've said elsewhere...

The first fight in the game, the enemy attacked right before Lightning did, and Lightning decided that she'd just run against the geometry of his arm for a second or two instead of, you know, attacking. Great start, game!

Other than that, it's okay. Combat is still boring as fuck because usually all I do is press auto-battle, since when I was playing with Lightning, I didn't notice Blitz for a while, and now I'm playing as Not-Seifer, so the same is happening here.

There also seems to be the gaping plot hole of why are Sahz and Lightning even together. It just throws them together in the beginning, and I have no idea how they're together and why they're grouped up. It seems they just met, and aren't too fond of each other. SO WHY ARE THEY TEAMED UP? Blergh.

Sahz is pretty awesome, even if he suffers from "Haha the animal can talk but he's the only one who can understand it" durpa durr syndrome.

Also, I miss my normal levels. Combat feels kinda pointless right now, since half the time I don't get anything, and the other half of the time I get potions and maybe a Phoenix Down. No thanks, game. I don't think I've used an item yet, I don't need any more. I guess I get components, which maybe I'm supposed to sell for money? I dunno, maybe I'm supposed to save them up for something, so that's what I'm doing now. Only thing I can buy at the store right now is more items anyway, because fuck this game be eeeeeaaaasy.

Also, @Blues, you complained a lot about having to sell stuff for money in XII, but I don't think I've noticed you do the same for this game. Any particular reason why, or does the game start handing out money like candy after the tutorial?

[Regulus Tera]

Money is pretty scarce in this game.

Kinda unrelated but if I had to describe this game I would say this is the Kingdom Hearts II of the Final Fantasy series.

[EVILNess]

Other than that, it's okay. Combat is still boring as fuck because usually all I do is press auto-battle, since when I was playing with Lightning, I didn't notice Blitz for a while, and now I'm playing as Not-Seifer, so the same is happening here.

About the time you get your first usable Eidolin the combat switches from "Auto Battle-> AUTO BATTLE HARDER-> Maybe a potion-> Victory!" to having to watch your enemies and switching paradigms when you need to. It gets deeper.

There also seems to be the gaping plot hole of why are Sahz and Lightning even together. It just throws them together in the beginning, and I have no idea how they're together and why they're grouped up. It seems they just met, and aren't too fond of each other. SO WHY ARE THEY TEAMED UP? Blergh. There are a lot of holes that slowly get filled in as the game goes on. Jeez man do they have to go HEY THIS IS WHY I AM HERE while looking at the camera? Honestly, they are all strangers and as they come to trust each other and spend time together they open themselves up.

Sahz is pretty awesome, even if he suffers from "Haha the animal can talk but he's the only one who can understand it" durpa durr syndrome. You leave the goddamn chocobo chick alone.

Also, I miss my normal levels. Combat feels kinda pointless right now, since half the time I don't get anything, and the other half of the time I get potions and maybe a Phoenix Down. No thanks, game. I don't think I've used an item yet, I don't need any more. I guess I get components, which maybe I'm supposed to sell for money? I dunno, maybe I'm supposed to save them up for something, so that's what I'm doing now. Only thing I can buy at the store right now is more items anyway, because fuck this game be eeeeeaaaasy. You can't really tell but you are actually getting points to spend in your Crystarium (Sphere Grid), which opens up in chapter 4 I think.

Also, @Blues, you complained a lot about having to sell stuff for money in XII, but I don't think I've noticed you do the same for this game. Any particular reason why, or does the game start handing out money like candy after the tutorial?
DEAR GOD DON'T SELL YOUR COMPONENTS. You need them to level up your weapons.

[Kim]

There are a lot of holes that slowly get filled in as the game goes on. Jeez man do they have to go HEY THIS IS WHY I AM HERE while looking at the camera? Honestly, they are all strangers and as they come to trust each other and spend time together they open themselves up.


I'm just saying I would like some context for what the hell is going on, rather than have it be Mystery Theater: Who Killed The Butler.

[krogothwolf]

DEAR GOD DON'T SELL YOUR COMPONENTS. You need them to level up your weapons.

You sell components that sell for a lot but give little XP, like the chips from PSICOM dudes, to buy components that give decent xp in bunches to level up the modifier.

[bluestarultor]

It's good to know that the adequate approach to troubling times is cathartic violence.
And oh no, I'm not doing what the villain thinks I should do! I must be doing things wrong!

Cloud in that situation: "Oh, no! A crazed megalomaniac who plans on destroying the world killed my girlfriend and is just standing there making triumphant speeches! I must make my own melodramatic speech and let him get away for no good reason!"

aggressive person in that situation: "Oh, no! A crazed megalomaniac who plans on destroying the world killed my girlfriend and is just standing there making triumphant speeches! God, this is my chance to take the bastard out, for my girlfriend and for the sake of the world!"

passive person in that situation: "Oh, no! A crazed megalomaniac who plans on destroying the world killed my girlfriend and is just standing there making triumphant speeches! God, no! Please, don't die! Talk to me! No! *sob* What do I do?"

This pretty bluntly sums up the reason the scene fell of deaf ears with me. Maybe taking Sephy out wouldn't have been everyone's reaction, but when you're that emotional, reason goes out the window, one way or another. To put it this way, what would YOU do if a guy shot your girlfriend in the face in front of you and stood there gloating? Probably not just talk to him. In my case, I'd totally have freaked out and tried to get in some last moments with her, and when the guy started rubbing my face in it, if she were clearly gone, yeah, I'd fucking FLY at that guy and wipe the smug grin off his face. Hell would be a reprieve if I had any say in it.

I didn't really find his speech that out of place, considering Sephiroth was giving his speech as well, it seemed to fit then going all rageahol on Sephiroth because Aerith died. Also, Sephiroth called bullshit on his feelings, not his speech. It really wasn't immediate acceptence, it was more along the lines of things he'll be missing of her.

I find it amusing that they both really thought it was an appropriate time to make speeches. Sephiroth has an excuse, because he saw it as a large step toward his ultimate victory and isn't quite sane in the first place. Cloud, on the other hand, at least had the excuse of having a giant glass ball thrown in his face previously, or having been under the influence of mind control, neither of which happened in this case. There was nothing stopping him from shanking the guy.

And, uh, yeah, Cloud DID accept the fact that Aeris was dead pretty much instantly. Seriously, only tries to wake her for three seconds, less than a minute until he basically throws her body to the floor to face Sephy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvRRIY3YGFU) There was no tearful farewell between the two if she'd lingered on a bit, which she technically should have, given she was stabbed through the abdomen. There wasn't even the paralysis of despair. If he had been, he would have tried to interact with HER a bit more, rather than instantly turning his attention to Sephy and blaming him for killing her. Hell, looking at that, I was just as ready to call bull on his emotions as Sephy was. Describing his physical reactions to the murderer was not appropriate. It was almost like him counting to ten to give Sephy a running start. The scene could have played out one of two ways: either a tearful farewell where Cloud would have been utterly crippled by his sadness and Sephiroth wouldn't have been his main focus, where the battle would have begun with him still holding her, or a scene of hurt and anger where he would have actually tried to do something about it right away, realizing that she was gone. The final product was neither. Cloud was acting like Aeris was supposed to be his main focus, but she wasn't. He was angry at Sephiroth, but not enough so that he'd do something rash and vengeful. All he did was make a speech about how Sephiroth had killed her and linger somewhere in between without really committing to a strong emotional reaction in a believable way. It LOOKS like he's going to be crippled by his sadness, but then he suddenly drops her like she was nothing and just stands there while her murderer gets away.

[Kim]

Actually, and I'm saying this as someone who wasn't the biggest fan of FFVII, Cloud does attack Sephiroth, but since the Sephiroth was just a Jenova thing, "killing" him didn't really kill him. All I'm saying. Cloud hardly lets Sephiroth get away there.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

This pretty bluntly sums up the reason the scene fell of deaf ears with me. Maybe taking Sephy out wouldn't have been everyone's reaction, but when you're that emotional, reason goes out the window, one way or another. To put it this way, what would YOU do if a guy shot your girlfriend in the face in front of you and stood there gloating? Probably not just talk to him. In my case, I'd totally have freaked out and tried to get in some last moments with her, and when the guy started rubbing my face in it, if she were clearly gone, yeah, I'd fucking FLY at that guy and wipe the smug grin off his face. Hell would be a reprieve if I had any say in it.


I have suspicions that you are a cartoon character.

[krogothwolf]

Whats so weird about someone who fights and kills accepting death easily? they knew that any one of them could die on their hairbrain scheme of killing Sephiroth, him accepting it is just simple. FF VI has a pretty bad speech just before they fight Kefka. It's video games and comics, Everyone makes speeches. I found 6's annoying self help speech from all the characters way more annoying then clouds. I like 6 better, but it was still a very annoying speech. And she didn't linger, she was flat out dead, they didn't even make it seem like she lingered. it was stab and then DEAD!

[Kim]

FF VI has a pretty bad speech just before they fight Kefka.

Yeah, but that speech is awesome for Kefka being all "Fuck you guys, I'll just blow it all up again."

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You need a suitably rousing speech when you are going to fight a scary clown.

[bluestarultor]

Done derailing the thread, so I'm gonna reply to this.

I'll say what I've said elsewhere...

The first fight in the game, the enemy attacked right before Lightning did, and Lightning decided that she'd just run against the geometry of his arm for a second or two instead of, you know, attacking. Great start, game!

Other than that, it's okay. Combat is still boring as fuck because usually all I do is press auto-battle, since when I was playing with Lightning, I didn't notice Blitz for a while, and now I'm playing as Not-Seifer, so the same is happening here.

Odd glitch, didn't run into anything like that. Possibly a collisions issue? Weird.

Lightning has Blitz, Snow has some nifty hand grenades starting out. They're infinite, but once you get further, they fall off the radar. You'll probably have to buy them back later, but we didn't get that far yet.

There also seems to be the gaping plot hole of why are Sahz and Lightning even together. It just throws them together in the beginning, and I have no idea how they're together and why they're grouped up. It seems they just met, and aren't too fond of each other. SO WHY ARE THEY TEAMED UP? Blergh.

Sahz is pretty awesome, even if he suffers from "Haha the animal can talk but he's the only one who can understand it" durpa durr syndrome.

It uses flashbacks to explain how everything got the way it is. For a spoiler: The two don't know each other, but he tags along because he needs help to do what he thinks he needs to do and they're going the same direction. They don't share as common a goal as he believes at first, though.

Also, I miss my normal levels. Combat feels kinda pointless right now, since half the time I don't get anything, and the other half of the time I get potions and maybe a Phoenix Down. No thanks, game. I don't think I've used an item yet, I don't need any more. I guess I get components, which maybe I'm supposed to sell for money? I dunno, maybe I'm supposed to save them up for something, so that's what I'm doing now. Only thing I can buy at the store right now is more items anyway, because fuck this game be eeeeeaaaasy.

Actually, if you're not a l'Cie yet, you're not gaining any EXP. There's a Sphere Grid-like system in place again, but it doesn't kick in until you get changed.

INLINE EDIT: Let me clarify that. Where in FFX, you needed Sphere Levels to move around and Spheres to unlock crap, here you gain CP, which is a fancy way of saying EXP you can put towards any node adjacent to a lit one on the grid at any time, without needing to worry about movement, even if you can't fully reach it yet. Also, everyone has their own fully unique grid, with different abilities in different orders, stat boosts, unique abilities, and "specializations" in certain jobs, meaning what they're essentially designed around. Like, anyone can become a Medic, but it's one of Hope's major functions and he's just plain better at it than others. [/edit]

ALSO, do not underestimate the utility of items. You will use them much more later. ALSO ALSO, do NOT sell your components. This was said before, but it's a bitch to collect them and you'll be very sorry if you wipe out your stock, because they upgrade all your equipment. You'll get "credit chips" or some crap later which sell for a lot and aren't good for upgrades.

Also, @Blues, you complained a lot about having to sell stuff for money in XII, but I don't think I've noticed you do the same for this game. Any particular reason why, or does the game start handing out money like candy after the tutorial?

It does not, sadly. That's a major complaint for me. Gil is incredibly hard to come by for a good chunk of the game. The only reason it's not a deal-breaker is because you'll find all the equipment and most of the items you'll need if you're thorough, so you can focus on buying components. If you miss a weapon, it will break your bank. Literally, you'll have to scrape for the Gil and then wipe it out to pick up one you missed.

But short of supplementing your component stock and paying for not being a good enough raider, there's really very little use to the shops in this game. There will come a point where you'll be able to farm money-giving components from enemies, but you'll probably find yourself sitting on it because upgrading your weaponry is free, minus bought components.

[krogothwolf]

Hand Grenade gets replaced by Blitz for Snow.

[Meister]

God fucking dammit I'm starting to get interested after all.

[Melfice]

God fucking dammit I'm starting to get interested after all.

I told myself I wouldn't pick it up, when I first heard of it. Final Fantasy XII was something I could not get into, at all. The whole mechanics of the game did not agree with me. Eventually got a guide. Who knows? Maybe it's just the first bit that's irking me? Got through that "first bit" (don't remember exactly where) and decided to sell it anyway.

The more I heard about this one, though... Yeah. I've got it lying next to my PS3. Were it not that I'm playing Metal Gear Solid 4 (and surprisingly liking it!) and Yakuza 3, I'm sure I'd be much further in. The bit controlling Lightning and the bit with Snow (Halfway through the character introductions now?) sold it for me. Maybe it'll completely suck much later on, but so far... I'm liking it!

[Nique]

Played about 30 minutes of this at a friend's house.

It is a really pretty game, but that just makes the uninspired character designs all the more dissapointing. I like the Chocobo-in-the-hair guy and Lightning is pretty good, but everyone else looks like a cheap stripper. Yes the dudes too.

I had heard a lot of hub-bub about the battle system and even though it's fast it seems pretty boring?

And why the hell can't I view a full stat sheet? I get all of 2 stats and elemental defenses showing up, yet there's armor that boosts the defense? What is that? Is defense that weird percentage mechanic?

[bluestarultor]

Played about 30 minutes of this at a friend's house.

It is a really pretty game, but that just makes the uninspired character designs all the more dissapointing. I like the Chocobo-in-the-hair guy and Lightning is pretty good, but everyone else looks like a cheap stripper. Yes the dudes too.

I had heard a lot of hub-bub about the battle system and even though it's fast it seems pretty boring?

And why the hell can't I view a full stat sheet? I get all of 2 stats and elemental defenses showing up, yet there's armor that boosts the defense? What is that? Is defense that weird percentage mechanic?

Battle gets better after you unlock the classes. The system is actually DESIGNED to be slightly abusable, in that if you switch between one set of classes and a similar one (Paradigm Shift), you can insta-fill your ATB bar. The game literally expects you to do this. If you're not constantly switching Paradigms, you're doing it wrong and it will grade you down based on your battle time. It's very tactical in a way.


Armor doesn't raise your defense so much as it adds to your HP, from what I can tell. If there is a true defense stat, the only way to raise it would probably be with buffs. Not 100% clear on this, myself.

[Nique]

I mean, it's just HP, MP, STR and MAG? Nutty. Also Paradigm Shift is eerily reminiscient of dress-spheres/ grids, and the leveling system is pretty much a spin on FFX's which would then make FFXIII = FFX + FFX-2? I'm ok with this. I imagine some people are not?

[Azisien]

Once the game actually lets you play the combat system is pretty damn fun I don't care what no one thinks otherwise!

I need one of my characters to learn Haste ASAP though, having 4 ATB bars without Haste provides these jarring moments of nothingness in a really fast combat environment.

[bluestarultor]

Once the game actually lets you play the combat system is pretty damn fun I don't care what no one thinks otherwise!

I need one of my characters to learn Haste ASAP though, having 4 ATB bars without Haste provides these jarring moments of nothingness in a really fast combat environment.

Are you playing on normal or slow ATB? You can change it. Also, Fortisol gives you Haste if you use it before battle, but I wouldn't waste it.

[Azisien]

Normal. And I am aware of the most basic elements of the game thanks! You only get like 3 in the first 15 hours. I save them for bosses.

Edit: I originally considered playing on Slow because I found the combat too fast when I first popped it in. After a few hours, I just got used to it. I hope that's not their justification for the half-game tutorial though, jebus.

[Kim]

It is a really pretty game, but that just makes the uninspired character designs all the more dissapointing. I like the Chocobo-in-the-hair guy and Lightning is pretty good, but everyone else looks like a cheap stripper. Yes the dudes too.

Vanille's design I don't mind. Though I do gotta wonder why they combined cutesy face and personality with this whole tribal/primitive look. I'm assuming there's a reason for the tribal/primitive bit, but it contrasts with her attitude and face something fierce.

[bluestarultor]

Normal. And I am aware of the most basic elements of the game thanks! You only get like 3 in the first 15 hours. I save them for bosses.

Edit: I originally considered playing on Slow because I found the combat too fast when I first popped it in. After a few hours, I just got used to it. I hope that's not their justification for the half-game tutorial though, jebus.

Heh, heh. Sorry. Missed the four bars part. ^_^;

Hope and Sazh are the two Synergists of the game. Sadly, Sazh is the first to learn Haste... at role level 6. >>;

[krogothwolf]

Sazh is a better character over all though, hope is usefull in certain areas though. Being synergist and medic work wonders.

After chapter 10 everyone has access to all roles

[Naqel]

God fucking dammit I'm starting to get interested after all.

15 hour tutorial.

Hope it helps. :P

[Kim]

Augh this writing is so bad you guys. Serah's death was just... awful on so many levels. The deliver and writing of it is atrocious. Since they throw you in the story without establishing anything, her death means absolutely nothing. You don't know her, so you can't really give half a shit that she's dead. You hate any character who doesn't have a chocobo in their afro, so feeling bad because they feel bad, which is bad writing to begin with, doesn't work either. Just... ARRRRGH this is terrible.

If I wasn't already aware that the gameplay might actually become decent at some point in the future, I would drop this game right now. Holy fuck. I... I am at a loss for words.

[krogothwolf]

Augh this writing is so bad you guys. Serah's death was just... awful on so many levels. The deliver and writing of it is atrocious. Since they throw you in the story without establishing anything, her death means absolutely nothing. You don't know her, so you can't really give half a shit that she's dead. You hate any character who doesn't have a chocobo in their afro, so feeling bad because they feel bad, which is bad writing to begin with, doesn't work either. Just... ARRRRGH this is terrible.

If I wasn't already aware that the gameplay might actually become decent at some point in the future, I would drop this game right now. Holy fuck. I... I am at a loss for words.

But Nonsie, Your Hero is coming!

[Regulus Tera]

God fucking dammit I'm starting to get interested after all.

Honestly rent it before you buy it.

[bluestarultor]

Augh this writing is so bad you guys. Serah's death was just... awful on so many levels. The deliver and writing of it is atrocious. Since they throw you in the story without establishing anything, her death means absolutely nothing. You don't know her, so you can't really give half a shit that she's dead. You hate any character who doesn't have a chocobo in their afro, so feeling bad because they feel bad, which is bad writing to begin with, doesn't work either. Just... ARRRRGH this is terrible.

If I wasn't already aware that the gameplay might actually become decent at some point in the future, I would drop this game right now. Holy fuck. I... I am at a loss for words.

Nonsie, you need to sit your ass down and earn your way into the story. :p

No, seriously, I thought I mentioned this before, but the lead-up to the beginning of the game is done in a series of flashbacks. There are a good number of them in the first few hours, just so you get an idea of what's going on. Serah isn't done. You'll keep seeing her.

[Kim]

No, seriously, I thought I mentioned this before, but the lead-up to the beginning of the game is done in a series of flashbacks. There are a good number of them in the first few hours, just so you get an idea of what's going on. Serah isn't done. You'll keep seeing her.

I grasp this. What I'm saying is that the execution is atrocious. Incredibad. It leaves me lost as to what's going on. It completely ruins Serah's death because any characterization she gets happens after she's fridged. And I goddamn hate the characters, so I can't even feel bad that they're sad.

And Vanille... Jesus Christ, Vanille... "Uh oh! Then let's run away! Ciao!" It feels like I'm watching fucking Blues Clues.

[bluestarultor]

I grasp this. What I'm saying is that the execution is atrocious. Incredibad. It leaves me lost as to what's going on. It completely ruins Serah's death because any characterization she gets happens after she's fridged. And I goddamn hate the characters, so I can't even feel bad that they're sad.

And Vanille... Jesus Christ, Vanille... "Uh oh! Then let's run away! Ciao!" It feels like I'm watching fucking Blues Clues.

They all get better. :J

[Kim]

They all get better. :J

That doesn't make the now any more bearable.

[Azisien]

They all get better. :J

Marginally. Sorta. I can see why a lot of people would fucking hate this game. :p

I love the combat enough to trudge through the terrible plot though. I mean shit, Blues, me and you both played through X-2, we'll play through almost anything with a halfways decent combat system.

[Regulus Tera]

They all get better. :J

Blues please stop telling lies.

Like the only characters that actually develop during the course of the plot are Lightning and Hope, with only Hope significantly changing from a fucking emo kid with violent tendencies to Vanille Mk. II. Lightning goes from a cold badarse soldier to a badarse soldier with a heart of gold. Snow, despite having to confront the repercussions from the death of innocent people he drags into the mess he got himself for Serah, doesn't become more serious or thoughtful or anything. Vanille deals with her Dark Past™, but like Snow there's nothing different about her life outlook before and after the events. Sazh doesn't really develop either. He faces some tough drama and his story is the most compelling, but his resolution about Dajh is still the same after the final boss is defeated.

And Fang is just Fang.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Blues please stop telling lies.

Like the only characters that actually develop during the course of the plot are Lightning and Hope, with only Hope significantly changing from a fucking emo kid with violent tendencies to Vanille Mk. II. Lightning goes from a cold badarse soldier to a badarse soldier with a heart of gold. Snow, despite having to confront the repercussions from the death of innocent people he drags into the mess he got himself for Serah, doesn't become more serious or thoughtful or anything. Vanille deals with her Dark Past™, but like Snow there's nothing different about her life outlook before and after the events. Sazh doesn't really develop either. He faces some tough drama and his story is the most compelling, but his resolution about Dajh is still the same after the final boss is defeated.

And Fang is just Fang.

Wow... XIII's not looking so good.

[Azisien]

Wow... XIII's not looking so good.

Well to be fair, Reg hated the game waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before release. Everybody should try it once.

[Nique]

Good God you guys give Bluestar so much crap like allthetime.

Vanille's design I don't mind. Though I do gotta wonder why they combined cutesy face and personality with this whole tribal/primitive look. I'm assuming there's a reason for the tribal/primitive bit, but it contrasts with her attitude and face something fierce.

Who is her voice actor btw? I can't tell if it's an Australian doing a horrible impression of an American accent or an American doing an even worse impression of an Aussie accent, but it's bad times. Also it confuses the 'tribal' motife becuase she's, what, exactly? A tribal girl who just LUVS to shop? Buh? I'm not saying anything about the actual character, I'm just saying she reminds me of the girls who were those ugly fur-lined boots over full length jeans at the mall in the middle of summer UGH UGH UGH!!!

[EVILNess]

Her voice actor is an Aussie comedienne.

[Kim]

Actually, Nique, if my guess is accurate, the tribal deal actually fits with her backstory, and it certainly stands out from the others, which I figure was one of the points of it. I dunno, maybe I'm just tolerant of the character design in this game because the last FF I played was FFX, which was pretty terrible character design-wise. This is certainly a step above that.