Don't you people ever die?! A DMing thread

[Meister]

I think it's time we put the combined experiences of the roleplaying crowd here to a good use! (Not that amusement isn't a very good use by itself.) Let's share DM experiences and, above all, give advice.

I'm planning a boss encounter where the party, in addition to the usual "I hit it with my sword/I cast magic missile", can play the "dodge the charging brute" game we know from so many video games. There will be a few stone columns strewn around the area, and if they can get the boss to run into one of those (or the wall), it'll be good for a medium-high amount of damage. So far, so good, but now I need a way to subtly drop clues to my players that this is a strategy that will work. Any ideas?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If you emphasise how big and massive he is, and how much momentum he has when he runs the players should get it after the first charges- well I hope so.
I've done similar tactics in the past, and the real trick is to make the pcs think they can't win a straight up fight so they have to try new things. If you can recur the NPC that works well, first time PCs meet him they get asses kicked but have some way to escape, second time they don't have way to escape so need to be creative.

[Meister]

Recurring won't work, but I could maybe have them spot two minor enemies in the same dungeon fighting each other and using similar tactics, just to put the idea in their head. And give the big guy better defenses and maybe damage reduction to
make the pcs think they can't win a straight up fight so they have to try new things

[Corel]

Slightly changing your above idea Meister, work in an enemy that the party have had combat difficulties with in the past before get completely smashed to pieces in the first round when trying conventional combat tactics against the boss. It might make them wise up not to do the same if they are given a strength comparison.

Then again this might remove the suspense of the boss reveal unless the enemies appear the same time you fight the boss. If you don't want to ruin the suprise for later you could have the party find the remains of said enemy killed in a way that players can piece together that something big and mean did it. Maybe a fragmented message/journal entry they could read?

It'll either teach them to run or fight outside the box; either one would be enjoyable I think.

[EVILNess]

Death scrawl of a dead adventurer.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

My other suggestion is to murder the first few PCs who try to fight him normally (assuming you've dropped some hints). But then I'm kind of a bastard as a DM, it totally works though!

[Dauntasa]

My other suggestion is to murder the first few PCs who try to fight him normally (assuming you've dropped some hints). But then I'm kind of a bastard as a DM, it totally works though!

No, the real bastard move is hinting that making the boss smash into pillars is the way to go, then making the whole place collapse when he breaks too many of them.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

WelL I would do that too to be fair.

[tacticslion]

I think it's time we put the combined experiences of the roleplaying crowd here to a good use! (Not that amusement isn't a very good use by itself.) Let's share DM experiences and, above all, give advice.

I'm planning a boss encounter where the party, in addition to the usual "I hit it with my sword/I cast magic missile", can play the "dodge the charging brute" game we know from so many video games. There will be a few stone columns strewn around the area, and if they can get the boss to run into one of those (or the wall), it'll be good for a medium-high amount of damage. So far, so good, but now I need a way to subtly drop clues to my players that this is a strategy that will work. Any ideas?

One idea is, when you describe the stone pillars, describe them as either leaning and breakable ("with enough force"), or very sturdy. With leaning/breakable option, it might make a character think "huh, if he ran into those, and it smashed, then it'd fall on him" - do that and you'd have a great way to explain the extra damage, a limited-tactic that the players would inevitably try as often as possible - especially if he was weakened in some way for a round, like prone or dazed or something - and it would be pretty epic for these pillars to get smashed on top of him. The opposite is also possible. If you make the pillars uniquely strong, and identify them as a slightly different material than the rest of the area, emphasizing that it would "probably hurt" if someone hit it (implying testing the pillars, not smashing into them with your ramman/juggernaught boss), than players will probably get the same idea.

Outside of that, yeah, I'd say most of the ideas you've recieved are great. When he charges, to emphasize his momentum, always have him travel a few feet (or a square or two, if you're doing that) beyond where he was "aiming" (constantly using over-run and/or bull-rush) - that would also give them the idea for setting something up behind his targets to run into. One final idea is that if you have an expendable NPC in the group, kill that character. So long as you don't do it cheesily (so long as the NPC isn't, for example, far away from the fighting) it will likely be something remembered by the characters for quite some time. Might even open up a quest to raise them or something, depending on the NPC.

Some notes on the thread: I suggest we use swap tags or spoiler tags in this thread, as players may read the forums, and we don't want to spoil things for 'em. When we swap or spoiler, however, we should make it clear to whome we are speaking before hand, so the right person/people can get their info. Also, since the title of the thread is generic enough, players might not make the connection "oh, I shouldn't go in there" and instead think "heh, it's probably funny DM stories" or "hey, maybe I'll learn how to be a better DM".

More on topic, and spoiler free for my players:
I've got a campaign where my characters just won't proceed any further. They've got an option of returning to the "real" world (they're in another plane of existance) or continuing on to what they expect would be a difficult and violent fight. They are currently a hung party - no one in the group knows what they want to do (and usually oscillate). Further, attempting to force the issue on my part has led to some frustration. So... any advice?

[DarkDrgon]

One idea is, when you describe the stone pillars, describe them as either leaning and breakable ("with enough force"), or very sturdy. With leaning/breakable option, it might make a character think "huh, if he ran into those, and it smashed, then it'd fall on him" - do that and you'd have a great way to explain the extra damage, a limited-tactic that the players would inevitably try as often as possible - especially if he was weakened in some way for a round, like prone or dazed or something - and it would be pretty epic for these pillars to get smashed on top of him. The opposite is also possible. If you make the pillars uniquely strong, and identify them as a slightly different material than the rest of the area, emphasizing that it would "probably hurt" if someone hit it (implying testing the pillars, not smashing into them with your ramman/juggernaught boss), than players will probably get the same idea.

Outside of that, yeah, I'd say most of the ideas you've recieved are great. When he charges, to emphasize his momentum, always have him travel a few feet (or a square or two, if you're doing that) beyond where he was "aiming" (constantly using over-run and/or bull-rush) - that would also give them the idea for setting something up behind his targets to run into. One final idea is that if you have an expendable NPC in the group, kill that character. So long as you don't do it cheesily (so long as the NPC isn't, for example, far away from the fighting) it will likely be something remembered by the characters for quite some time. Might even open up a quest to raise them or something, depending on the NPC.

Some notes on the thread: I suggest we use swap tags or spoiler tags in this thread, as players may read the forums, and we don't want to spoil things for 'em. When we swap or spoiler, however, we should make it clear to whome we are speaking before hand, so the right person/people can get their info. Also, since the title of the thread is generic enough, players might not make the connection "oh, I shouldn't go in there" and instead think "heh, it's probably funny DM stories" or "hey, maybe I'll learn how to be a better DM".

More on topic, and spoiler free for my players:
I've got a campaign where my characters just won't proceed any further. They've got an option of returning to the "real" world (they're in another plane of existance) or continuing on to what they expect would be a difficult and violent fight. They are currently a hung party - no one in the group knows what they want to do (and usually oscillate). Further, attempting to force the issue on my part has led to some frustration. So... any advice?

Make the choice for them. the next time they are RPing their decision making process, cut off their return to the "real" world, or have them forcibly planeshifted there, whatever you think is best. might not work for your group, but mine have sometimes spent 3 sessions deciding what to do.

[Lady Fire Dove]

[SWAP="Meister, read here!"]?

Ah, I see. By which you mean, "Lady Fire Dove, don't!" :raise:


players might not make the connection "oh, I shouldn't go in there" and instead think "heh, it's probably funny DM stories" or "hey, maybe I'll learn how to be a better DM".


You seem to forget that one of your players is also your DM. ;)


They are currently a hung party - no one in the group knows what they want to do (and usually oscillate). Further, attempting to force the issue on my part has led to some frustration. So... any advice?

Hmmm... next session, either make us decide or roll a die to decide it for us via NPC pronouncement or somesuch. Maybe. Unless I don't like that idea at the time. ^_^


There will be a few stone columns strewn around the area, and if they can get the boss to run into one of those (or the wall), it'll be good for a medium-high amount of damage. So far, so good, but now I need a way to subtly drop clues to my players that this is a strategy that will work. Any ideas?

Perhaps let the brute sideswipe a column when he first charges into the arena, and let a decent perception check spot the blood caused by that wound? Or maybe have the beast distracted by a swarm of cave bats or something and when it charges at them, it first wounds itself, giving the PCs the idea? Or, there's always the rather obvious but effective method of having them make insight (or wisdom) checks and rewarding high rolls with that bit of strategy popping into their minds. Players never seem to mind a hint ... at least as far as I can recall.

[Terex4]

For dramatic flair have the beast enter with a hapless adventurer in its grip. Have it throw the adventurer into a pillar and have it partially crash into the party causing minor damage from grenade bounce as the pillar breaks on impact. It'll start the characters off shouting "oh shit" while possibly giving them the idea to use the pillars against the beast. Just make sure to describe all the pillars as structurally weak.

[PhoenixFlame]

Rather than damage, make the boss get stuck in the pillars so the PCs have time to savage him with their weapons. It might take several rounds for him to extricate himself from the rubble/pull his horns out/unjam his armor or weapon from the damaged column.

It's less scripted and more hands on.

[Hanuman]

Knocking pillars? Zelda forest temple in Twilight had a good amount of that, just get them to hit the pillars and have them fall down earlier to subliminally suggest it, then put the magic item they can use on him on top of one of the perfectly smooth pillars, and the rest is cake.

Remember that if YOU want things to go a certain way, you gotta still give them the option, just let the scenario hint to them that what you secretly want is the best possible option. Remember you're only there to limit them enough so THEY have the most fun possible, your role is to create that fun, and from creating that fun you earn the awesome feeling of storytelling, it's just vicarious.

[Meister]

Yeah, he's a perfectly normal enemy otherwise (a little beefed up of course because, boss and all), so they can take the usual approach if they want to / don't pick up on it.

It's less scripted and more hands on.
I see that. On the other hand I'd like to have the out-of-the-box tactic have a more immediate and direct effect than just give the party an advantage but still have them use only the regular tactics. What I'm definitely going to do, though, is have him be dazed for a round or so after he hits a column so they have an easier time hitting him. If they're smart they'll get into a "hide/lure brute into charging/dodge/concentrate fire/hide/lure etc." rhythm and have him down and out in no time. (there are two other enemies running around to avoid routine, too.)

What do you all use to keep track of initiative and/or status effects? Last session we played I tried little index cards, one for each combatant and ordered by initiative in a stack. We play 4E, where durations are usually "until the end/start of your/the enemy's next turn" or "save ends", so I can just jot down things like "stunned, save" or "AC -2, end of Bard's next" on someone's card in pencil and, theoretically, never again forget to apply an effect or prompt someone to make saving throws as I go through the stack. And reordering the initiative when someone delays or readies an action is no problem either.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I just have a bit of paper with everyone's names and an ever going pile of notations next to it. My players like to refocus and delay just to annoy me by getting me to write lots.

[tacticslion]

I just have a bit of paper with everyone's names and an ever going pile of notations next to it. My players like to refocus and delay just to annoy me by getting me to write lots.

This is what I usually (read: almost always) do. Either writing the names in the order they go (85% of the time), or placing numbers (initiative roll or order they go in) next to the alphabitized names (although the latter is more rare, and more prone to failure). Especially if the battle is hectic, and I'm in too much of a hurry to rewrite stuff the former ultimately becomes the latter. Further, to simplify, I usually roll initiative only once in battle, unless something causes the initiative order to change (such as a new opponent springing on the party, a major effect like an earthquake, or whatever). Finally, especially when I'm running huge battles with large numbers of participants, I'll roll initiative seperately for key characters (bosses or important enemies) but I'll sometimes roll "mass initiative" for enemy creatures with similar initiative groups or - in 4E - groups of minions. Often, even if I roll the creatures seperately, I often have them tactically delay their turn to work in concert with one another to set up flanks, defend together, and the like. This allows for cleaner runs, allows me to handle very large numbers simultaneously, and allows the players to be thinking more tactically, while still allowing me to spring surprises every once in a while.

Really, I think Meister's got the right idea with the cards. The problem is I'm just too lazy to write out a card for each of them and/or never buy cards to have on hand when I need them. Same tactic would work very well for 3.X, too, although you'd probably need to write more on each card, as 3.X usually (especially in battle) has more info and fine details.

One alternate idea is that if you're a fast typer and have a laptop (or your PC is adjacent to where you sit to play), have a word-document open, set up the battle order, and run through it that way. You can easily re-order who's where in the initiative (highlight, drag, drop) write any notes along the side you want with little problem (such as cleanly keep track of enemy hp totals and notable ongoing effects!) and not worry about erasing and re-writing. Otherwise, it seems like the cards are a better way to go.

[Meister]

The cards are handy because you write on them in pencil so you can erase it and reuse them. :knowledge: 10 cards are very likely all I'll ever need that way, any fight with more than 10 participants will probably only be at over 10 because it involves a lot of minions and I'll never need to track any status effects for them (or only so rarely that I can do it in my head).

[Terex4]

We use a grid mat for our games. Our DM will go and jot down active spells and such with a wet erase marker at the end next to the DM screen, that way if he needs to he can place the screen over it if there's info we don't need to see.

Very easy to erase (just keep an old washcloth or rag handy) and you don't have to worry about losing it.

[bluestarultor]

What do you all use to keep track of initiative and/or status effects? Last session we played I tried little index cards, one for each combatant and ordered by initiative in a stack. We play 4E, where durations are usually "until the end/start of your/the enemy's next turn" or "save ends", so I can just jot down things like "stunned, save" or "AC -2, end of Bard's next" on someone's card in pencil and, theoretically, never again forget to apply an effect or prompt someone to make saving throws as I go through the stack. And reordering the initiative when someone delays or readies an action is no problem either.

Got colored dice? You can color code your status defects with them and use the numbers to remind yourself of the save.

[tacticslion]

We use a grid mat for our games. ... a wet erase marker ...

Got colored dice? You can color code your status defects with them and use the numbers to remind yourself of the save.

See, I love both of these ideas, but the one problem I have is: finances. $50 a week (after basic expenses) isn't really that much to go on, you see - especially for those remarkably expensive dice. :)

One idea (again based on the computer) is: when you are using various source-books, compile a kind of note-book for the basic rules your campaign is allowing/using right now - essentially re-write a few charts, growth rates, etc for the various characters you're using. Especially grab the stuff that you know you don't know and is likely to come up. That way if you have a rules question, you have an easy made-by-you (and thus intimately known-by-you) document you can pull up and answer things far more quickly than flipping through most books. Plus you've got a search function! That also allows you to ignore most of the issues with the game you're playing, and only reference the books when there's something very obscure or rare going on (which is usually temporarily adjucated anyway, in my experience). Edit: this allows you to (usually) not have to carry all of the books with you, especially if you meet in a location that's not someone's home.

Another method I have for following a character's power/rules, specifically for 4E, is to make a level chart for each character. The way I set up the chart chart, across the top, includes: "Level", "Powers and Feats" (the largest section, leave plenty of room here), and "Hit Points and Surges (max/bloodied, value/#). Above the last category (HP, etc) I write the amount of hit points they gain each level, half that number, one quarter that number, and "-same-" - this lets me know how much hit points that character will have at any given level. Beneath "Level", I've got their level (obviously), beneath their powers and feats I have several lines (at will, encounter, daily, utility, feat - going down a line, in that order, each listed only where they would get one) next to the level, and (their current maximum hit point total/their current maximum bloodied value, their current healing surge value/their current healing surges per day) at a given level. I start with first and fill in the blanks (as much as I know) all the way up to level 10. Copy/past the chart, add a few spaces (above or below) for paragon specials, and do the same for epic specials.

Here (I hope) is a clear example of what I was talking about:

.......This is a sometimes PC in a game I ran - a dwarf fighter named Baz........
HEROIC TIER.............................................. ...........+6/+3, +1.5/-same-
Level......Powers and Feats........................................HP and Surges (max/bloodied, value/#)
1st.........At will: cleave, reaping strike.........................31/15, 7/12
.............Encounter: spinning sweep
.............Daily: brute strike
.............Feat: power attack
2nd........Utility: unstoppable......................................3 7/18, 9/12
.............Feat: dwarven weapon training
3rd.........Encounter: crushing blow..............................43/21, 10/12
4th.........Feat: weapon focus (axes)............................49/24, 12/12
.............Ability increase: +1 DEX and CHA
etc.

Below the Heroic Tier Chart (you could put it above) I have information like this:
Baz has the following ability scores and class traits:
Role: defender................................Power Source: martial
Key Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom, Constitution

Armor Proficiencies: cloth, leather, hide, chain mail, scale, light shield, heavy shield
Weapon proficiencies: simple and military
Bonus to defense: +2 fortitude

Hit points at first level: 15+CON score......Hit points per level gained: 6
Healing surges per day: 9+CON mod

Trained Skills: athletics, endurance, intimidate

Class Features:
Combat Challenge, Combat Superiority, Fighter Weapon Talent

Starting Scores (for increase-based purposes).............Current Scores (after increases)
STR 16 DEX 13 WIS 14............................................STR 17 DEX 14 WIS 14
CON 16 INT 10 CHA 11............................................CON 17 INT 10 CHA 12
(Any other notes, like background/regional benefits, non-combat skills, etc, go here)

I set my paragon stuff up like this, placing it below a nearly identical chart to what I posted above (copy/paste the first ten levels, change level number and hit point amounts, set up notes on paragon specials and powers instead of heroic ones):
Name of Paragon Path [Example: “Guardian of Spirit”]
(name of paragon path based on, if any; example: “kensai”)
Traits
Level 11 Action [Name; example: “Guardian’s Action”]
(name of special trait based on, if any. Example: “justicar’s action”)
When you spend an action point, you…
… Each enemy adjacent to you is weakened until the end of its next turn

Level 11 Special [Name; example: “Guardian’s Recovery”]
(name of special trait based on, if any. Example: “tough as nails”)
~ Each ally adjacent to you can reroll one saving throw at the end of his or her turn

Level 16 Special [Name; example: “Guardian’s Defense”]
(name of special trait based on, if any. Example: “just shelter”)
~ Allies adjacent to you are immune to fear and charm effects and receive a +1 bonus to saving throws

Powers
Level 11 Attack
POWER NAME
Flavor Text (describe what it looks like)
.............Encounter: Key Words (example: “martial, weapon”)
.............(Standard, Move, Minor) Action, (melee or ranged) [weapon]
.............{Requirement: if any. Example: “must have implement”
.............Target: specified target(s), if any (example: “one bloodied creature”)
.............Attack: SCORE v. defense (example: “DEX v reflex”)
.............Hit: Damage and effect that happens on hit. Example: “3W+DEX mod damage and you shift”
.............Effect: Description of the effect regardless of the hit or miss. Example: “You spend a healing surge”
.............Miss: what happens, if anything, on a miss. Example: “half damage and no shift”

Level 12 Utility
POWER NAME
Flavor Text (describe what it looks like)
.............(At Will, Encounter, Daily): Key Words (example: “martial, weapon”)
.............(Standard, Move, Minor, Immediate interrupt, etc), (Personal, Ranged X, Close Burst X, etc)
.............{Trigger: if any. Example: “you become immobilized, restrained, or slowed”}
.............{Special: if any. Example: “if you are granting combat advantage, you can’t use this power”}
.............Effect: the effect. Example: “you become invisible until the start of your next turn”

Level 20 Attack
POWER NAME
Flavor Text (describe what it looks like)
.............Daily: Key Words (example: “martial, weapon”)
.............(Standard, Move, or Minor), (melee or ranged X) [weapon]
.............{Requires: must be wielding a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling}
.............Target: specified target(s), if any (example: “one bloodied creature”)
.............Attack: SCORE v. defense (example: “DEX v reflex”)
.............Hit: Damage and effect that happens on hit. Example: “3W+DEX mod damage and you shift”
.............Effect: Description of the effect regardless of the hit or miss. Example: “You spend a healing surge”
.............Miss: what happens, if anything, on a miss. Example: “half damage and no shift”

Finally, I put this below my Epic version of my heroic chart (as with the paragon chart, copy/paste the first ten levels, change level number and hit point amounts, set up notes on paragon specials and powers instead of heroic ones). This uses Epic Trickster to show you what it looks like after the generic stuff is removed/replaced.
.............Epic Trickster
EPIC Abilities
Level 21 Sly Fortune’s Favor
.............You have a knack for getting out of tough situations. Three times per day, as a free action, you can reroll a d20 roll (attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw)

Level 24 Trickster’s Control
.............If you roll an 18 or higher on the d20 when making the first attack roll for an encounter or daily attack power, that power is not expended

Level 30 Trickster’s Disposition
.............Once per day, you can tell the DM to treat the result of a d20 roll he just made as a 1. No rerolls are possible.

EPIC Powers
Epic Trick, level 26
Flavor Text
Daily: Healing
Minor, personal
Effect: regain all your hit points and healing surges, automatically save agasint all effects on you, recover all expended encounter powers, or recover all expended daily powers except this one. Once you use this power, you cannot recover it except by taking an extended rest.

This method is nice, because I can instantly check my notes (and compare with the players') at any level of play. Too many or too little hit points? I can help them fix that. Forgot to give themselves a feat, or gave themselves one too many? Fixed. It really, really speeds up leveling up, and you can just put generic placeholders until they know which power or feat they want. Make the three charts (heroic, paragon, epic) up to level thirty (or, if you know you'll never get there, up to your highest possible level of play and perhaps a couple more to be safe) and you'll never have to worry about mistakes (players' or your own) as the entire history of a character is laid out before you. Further, once you've developed one, generic version of the chart, you can copy/paste it for the three different tiers, and then copy/paste that for each different character you want to work with. It's also neat because it allows you to design your own classes (if you want) and instantly compare them in power/balance (the basics, at least) compared to the normal classes. This works great for villains too.

Speaking of villains, (and most NPCs) I always, always give the potentially recurring ones character classes. The DMG says not to do it, but, I mean, forget that noise. I treat 'em like characters (though I usually use the stats they start with in the MM or other pre-published adventure), and I set up charts exactly like these to do it. Further, I usually have it set up so that a villain is a threat for a good amount of time, but the characters can eventually even the odds. For example. If my first level heroes meet a 4th level enemy and take him down, that enemy grows as they do, but at a reduced rate. That enemy has a level equal to a fraction of the players'... plus four. So, for example, say I have a villianous berzerker (human, Monster Manual), and the characters defeat her, but she escapes. As she travels and gains power, her character level is defined as (2/3) the players' levels +4 (usually rounding up). So when they're 6th level, she'll be 8th. When their 9th level, she'll be 10th. When they're 12th level, she'll be... 12th as well. When they're 15th level, she'll only be 14th. It continues thusly. Eventually she becomes a non-threat to the characters, but it will take many levels. This gives the characters a sense of accomplishment as they eventually out-grow their old nemesis and a sense of versimilitude (the world doesn't revolve around them) as their enemy is growing in power too, when she's "off screen", but doesn't just magically gain an amount of power equal to them - her plots, schemes, and adventures just rewarded her less than theirs. I treat most NPCs this way (the few I don't are almost always 1st level rabble, though sometimes not minions), but the rest grow at a rate equal to a fraction of the PCs plus (or minus) something (minimum first level). One NPC adventurer, for example, grows at a rate of 1/8 the characters' level minus 2 (minimum 1). They found the unclassed (but intelligent) begger, brought him to a wizard's academy, and got him trained. But he'll never be their equal or even close. But as time goes on, he'll grow in his training at the wizard's academy. The longer you want the villain to be a threat, the higher the faction (2/3rds, or 7/8ths for really long-lasting ones); and the shorter the time of recurring threat, the lower the fraction (1/4 or even 1/8 for short-term, quickly out-classed recurring villains). Doing something like this really only works if the characters have met the villain already in an invironment where they might reasonably threaten it. Something like Orcus shouldn't increase in level until epic level characters have faced him once - and even then, probably not. Recurring villains, unless you have a specific plan for what happens past 30th level - probably shouldn't increase any more. If you must, however, they should probably be treated more like monsters at that point. NPCs should virtually never exceed that threshold, unless you have some very specific plans for them - in fact many (and maybe most), unless they're already there - probably shouldn't attain epic levels at all, and certainly not without a reason for them to get there.

The afore-mentioned classes I give my villains and NPCs are sometimes self-created. Especially if there's a character who has unique powers, I reverse-engineer what their class must have "looked like" to get to that point, and then proceed from there. Sometimes I'll even let players take those classes (presuming they aren't completely unbalanced). This usually changes their hp total, usually for the worse, but that's fine, as the characters are more likely to have briefer run-ins with them in future encounters anyway as they gain in power on the villain in question. I give them class features, hp, bloodied value, surges per day, and the whole shebang as a character class.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Cheaper solution: Just make it up as you go along. I've done it before. If players question you, throw vampiric sea trolls at them.

[tacticslion]

So, in this campaign I mentioned that I was running before (where my group is being indecisive) we'd taken a break for a bit because of various schedule things. In the middle of that break, we've cleaned up our house a few times and stuff has gotten shifted around. Now, I can't find the pre-published adventure I was basing things off of anywhere. I was following the adventure loosely, instead of strictly, but I was heavily relying on the stats and other pre-published stuff to hasten things along. Further, I've lost the maps I was using with the stuff itself.

So... does anyone have the Twilight Tomb (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Twilight_Tomb) Adventure? If so, could you PM some stuff to me? If not, does anyone have suggestions on where to go from here? Basically they're at the point where the orcs are beaten and they want to either fight Mourel or bypass him to go to the control room. I'd need the basic stats for the unique undead things, the glass golems, and the traps throughout. I've got some basic stat-stuff I can use in a pinch (and am developing my own), however it may quite quickly lead to a TPK... something that I'm okay with, but I don't want if I can help. I'd prefer balance, if possible. Also, as I'm unable to find it right now, does anyone know how reincarnate interacts with undeath? As in, can a brain-in-a-jar be reincarnated?

[EVILNess]

I am a big fan of traps and machinations, which leads DMs asking me for advice on dungeon design, and general NPC plot.

Example 1:

I once designed a dungeon based around the 7 Deadly Sins for a bud of mine to use in his campaign. Picture the Greed room, stairs go down into a domed room with a golden fountain in the middle of the room, on which a silver eye rests, on the other side stairs go up and lead into the next part of the labyrinth. On the fountain is a plaque that reads "Tithing doth repent the sin of Avarice"

Inside the fountain there is a large amount of treasure. TONS of magical goods. Long story short, if you take something and try to leave with it the room seals and fills up with water from the fountain, drowning you.

The kicker is the only way to stop the water and open the way out is to put back what you took and then at least another 10% of GP worth of goods into the fountain. The eye on the fountain is a magical sentient construct for appraises everything you put into or take out of the fountain, and judges accordingly.

[shiney]

No clues! The player is your enemy! Your JOB is to kill them! Make it happen or you are not fit to DM a Dora the Explorer campaign. You'll be like "hey defenseless Dora & co, you have just encountered the Tarrasque" and the players will be like "Bitch please" and one shot it and your shit is just done.

KILL THEM

[Julford Hajime]

So I just agreed to start DM'ing a group next Saturday, the 5th. It's gonna be a weekly 4e group, and the first campaign I've ever led (I've done one-off dungeon runs before, including a well-recieved remake of the Cathedral dungeon in Chrono Trigger). Wanted to get some advice from you guys, as y'all seem to have led a fair number of groups.

1. What is a good way to start them off? 9 times out of 10 we start off as part of some sort of mercenary group, a guild, or are just "random band of adventurers who haven't killed each other quite yet #47".

2. I want to keep it a very fluid group, as we run once a week for four hours in a local library. Sometimes people can't show up, other times a person plays for a week or two and then decides they want to play something different (Which I'm totally okay with, it's just part of how our gaming group functions). I guess it kinda ties in to #1, but any tips? Usually we have an NPC or two with the group, and if something happens to a couple people, they head off with the NPC to do a secondary task while the people who are there handle the primary goal.

3. Any thoughts on this premise for a villain? Heroes futz around for the first gaming session or two before meeting the future-villain NPC, who is not at all future-villain seeming. NPC promises to hire adventurer party for money well beyond their normal amount of gold for that level, in exchange for escorting him to an artifact he's been 'researching'. Assuming party doesn't get greedy and runs off with it (This is a very real risk), he would then hire them once or twice more for increasingly more money to get increasingly more powerful items. After the second/third time doing such a quest, the NPC gives them their money, and tells them he no longer requires their services. Reveals true intentions, murders helpless orphans, blah blah blah, evil stuff. He does nothing to spurn the party, keeps true to his word, and when is all said and done has treated them very well and likely offers them a spot in his new world order. Hell, if they take it, campaign ends after a massacre or two, and I have the setting for villains in a future campaign :D

4. This is likely to be a very fast leveling game, like one per session. That way my players have options, and I can ensure that the campaign ends fairly fast (I'm looking at a five/six week run here, maybe more, but definitely ending it at level 10, which is the end of the paragon tier). Really, it's gonna be mostly quest exp, as fighting always takes up a lot of time with this group. Should I start them a bit higher leveled than 1? I was thinking starting at level 3, which gives them their first utility skills as well as a second encounter skill to use.

Okay, that seems like enough from me for now. I really like the idea of using the PCs to gather the villains items of power, especially if the villain isn't overtly evil and in fact is more generous to the party than most 'heroic' NPCs would be; the hardest part for me is figuring out how to start the whole thing, really.

[Meister]

On another forum I read about a way to start off campaigns once that struck me as excellent and well off the beaten path. Describe a situation - say, a busy marketplace in a small town, where an execution is about to be held. The delinquent stands on the scaffold, guarded by some watchmen, and a small crowd of locals and travellers has gathered to watch. Then let the players decide who their characters are in that situation. A Fighter might say he's a watchman, here to oversee that everything goes well; a Rogue might say he's mingling with the crowd, looking for easy marks, or he might actually be the delinquent; another player might say he's a messenger who has just arrived to stop the execution because new evidence has turned up, or he's simply just arrived in town and surprised at what's going on, and so on.

Basically come up with a situation, paint it in broad strokes, and let the players decide who they are in the context of that situation. If there's no readily apparent way they might find together as an adventuring party, prepare some sort of outside event that disrupts the situation that they can react to. It's a good way to introduce early interpersonal dynamic, it gives everyone a general idea of who everyone else is, and they can still all say "I'm in a tavern somewhere, the execution (or whatever) doesn't really interest me."

[Corel]

On another forum I read about a way to start off campaigns once that struck me as excellent and well off the beaten path. Describe a situation - say, a busy marketplace in a small town, where an execution is about to be held. The delinquent stands on the scaffold, guarded by some watchmen, and a small crowd of locals and travellers has gathered to watch. Then let the players decide who their characters are in that situation. A Fighter might say he's a watchman, here to oversee that everything goes well; a Rogue might say he's mingling with the crowd, looking for easy marks, or he might actually be the delinquent; another player might say he's a messenger who has just arrived to stop the execution because new evidence has turned up, or he's simply just arrived in town and surprised at what's going on, and so on.

We did this exact situation before. I volunteered to be the one about to be hanged. After a lot of bumbling around and fumbled dice rolls to climb onto roofs (and filling me with arrows for a bunch of rounds) they finally managed to free me. All the players were seperately hired by the same person to save my PC. Reason being new evidence, or perhaps it's part of a larger conspiracy if you want to keep the ball rolling.

[Terex4]

3. Any thoughts on this premise for a villain? Heroes futz around for the first gaming session or two before meeting the future-villain NPC, who is not at all future-villain seeming. NPC promises to hire adventurer party for money well beyond their normal amount of gold for that level, in exchange for escorting him to an artifact he's been 'researching'. Assuming party doesn't get greedy and runs off with it (This is a very real risk), he would then hire them once or twice more for increasingly more money to get increasingly more powerful items. After the second/third time doing such a quest, the NPC gives them their money, and tells them he no longer requires their services. Reveals true intentions, murders helpless orphans, blah blah blah, evil stuff. He does nothing to spurn the party, keeps true to his word, and when is all said and done has treated them very well and likely offers them a spot in his new world order. Hell, if they take it, campaign ends after a massacre or two, and I have the setting for villains in a future campaign

If you have proactive players, let them create the villain. The best example of this is my DM with his previous group rolled on the random encounter table and got Mage with Golem. The party was just starting out and he knew they couldn't handle such an encounter, so he improvised.

The encounter was a mage lying on the ground after a forced teleport by his associates with an inactive golem next to him. The mage was a red wizard of Thay who had fallen out with his peers as well as a master golem maker.

The party, seeing a red wizard and being the typical cutthroat players that they were, decided to steal all his stuff and throw him off a cliff. He survived the fall and started chasing the party. They found more of his stashes and continued to rob him. The party could have gotten rid of him by simply returning what they had stolen, but instead decided he needed to die.

Needless to say the villain pulled some seriously fucked up things on the party and they ultimately died to a lich they decided to rob to get magic items to kill the wizard.

Highlight of the game:
The party's sponsor was the mother of one of the members. While they were off plane, the wizard murdered her, reanimated her as a flesh golem, and married her becoming the owner of the adventuring company as a result.

[Azisien]

My 4E party just cannot die. I mean yeah ok they could be but the only time I've ever KO'd everyone was through absolutely unrealistically overwhelming odds that made it obvious it was one of those "Oh we have to lose this fight" things.

They're level 7 with level 4-5 gear and honestly they beat groups of monsters that are level 11. 4E pisses me off that way.

I have been trying some alternate guerilla tactics too. Tonight I unleashed a small horde of Deathjump spiders in a dark tunnel they were passing through. I had the spiders use an at-will ability to shift 6 squares and pounce for 3d6+5 damage with ongoing poison, slow, and prone status effects. As soon as the spiders started taking damage they would also retreat into their webs or the ceiling after every attack and try to stealth. Then they would all ready actions to pounce the first PC to be all alone.

It still didn't work! Argh! Die!

[Julford Hajime]

On another forum I read about a way to start off campaigns once that struck me as excellent and well off the beaten path. Describe a situation - say, a busy marketplace in a small town, where an execution is about to be held. The delinquent stands on the scaffold, guarded by some watchmen, and a small crowd of locals and travellers has gathered to watch. Then let the players decide who their characters are in that situation. A Fighter might say he's a watchman, here to oversee that everything goes well; a Rogue might say he's mingling with the crowd, looking for easy marks, or he might actually be the delinquent; another player might say he's a messenger who has just arrived to stop the execution because new evidence has turned up, or he's simply just arrived in town and surprised at what's going on, and so on.

Basically come up with a situation, paint it in broad strokes, and let the players decide who they are in the context of that situation. If there's no readily apparent way they might find together as an adventuring party, prepare some sort of outside event that disrupts the situation that they can react to. It's a good way to introduce early interpersonal dynamic, it gives everyone a general idea of who everyone else is, and they can still all say "I'm in a tavern somewhere, the execution (or whatever) doesn't really interest me."

If you have proactive players, let them create the villain. The best example of this is my DM with his previous group rolled on the random encounter table and got Mage with Golem. The party was just starting out and he knew they couldn't handle such an encounter, so he improvised.

The encounter was a mage lying on the ground after a forced teleport by his associates with an inactive golem next to him. The mage was a red wizard of Thay who had fallen out with his peers as well as a master golem maker.

The party, seeing a red wizard and being the typical cutthroat players that they were, decided to steal all his stuff and throw him off a cliff. He survived the fall and started chasing the party. They found more of his stashes and continued to rob him. The party could have gotten rid of him by simply returning what they had stolen, but instead decided he needed to die.

Needless to say the villain pulled some seriously fucked up things on the party and they ultimately died to a lich they decided to rob to get magic items to kill the wizard.

Highlight of the game:
The party's sponsor was the mother of one of the members. While they were off plane, the wizard murdered her, reanimated her as a flesh golem, and married her becoming the owner of the adventuring company as a result.

These are both REALLY nice ideas. Definately gonna use the execution site as a start; I know that one of my players just LOVES to play the neutral evil type, and between the two of us we can figure out how he's in this situation, while all of the others have been hired to break his stupid ass out.

As for the other suggestion, I'm going to keep this one in mind. Usually the sponsor of our group is some sort of noble hiring out our company, and I'm thinking instead make it the neutral evil characters' mother/father. They pay the group to get the hell out of town with their son, and we meet this villain sometime shortly thereafter.

Our group tends to gravitate more towards neutral with a hint of good in them. For example, if they were to be sent out to obtain some sort of relic or artifact, the group may decide it's a better idea to never return to town and instead pawn off the relic in a nearby city/country for more money than they would've been paid otherwise; we've ended a few campaigns by obtaining a very high-end relic of some sort, pawning it, and then with that cash retiring in some far-off nation like NevadaGeorgia (LONG story).

HOWEVER, if the party decides to do just that and run off with the relic, the killing/reanimating/marrying of the NE characters parents would be a pretty ultimate FUCK YOU to the players, and one we would laugh about for years to come.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

To start campaigns we always just start them off in same city doing whatever they want, my players cause enough shit that they run into each other eventually.

[Meister]

Another example situation I and a friend came up with would be a slave galleon, where characters could be anything from slaves or slave drivers to the captain or a passenger; play out one normal day on the galleon, and then have it get into a storm and crash, with the PCs as the only survivors, left with barely any equipment in a dangerous area. That, we thought, has a lot of potential, especially with slaves and slave drivers - they just established a hierarchy and the slave driver has probably made himself unpopular, and now they're suddenly on equal ground and have to work together.

My 4E party just cannot die.
Heh, you could have left it right there. 4E characters are tough. The only time I managed to drop a character to negative HP was in the fourth encounter that day, but it was the Defender so I'm still counting that as a success. Are they at least having a hard time and just barely pull through, or do they breeze through everything?

[tacticslion]

It's gonna be a weekly 4e group, and the first campaign I've ever led (I've done one-off dungeon runs before, including a well-recieved remake of the Cathedral dungeon in Chrono Trigger). Wanted to get some advice from you guys, as y'all seem to have led a fair number of groups....

4. This is likely to be a very fast leveling game, like one per session. That way my players have options, and I can ensure that the campaign ends fairly fast (I'm looking at a five/six week run here, maybe more, but definitely ending it at level 10, which is the end of the paragon tier). Really, it's gonna be mostly quest exp, as fighting always takes up a lot of time with this group. Should I start them a bit higher leveled than 1? I was thinking starting at level 3, which gives them their first utility skills as well as a second encounter skill to use. Well, since your other questions were more or less answered, I suppose I should tackle this one. I would usually approve, especially if you want to get to around tenth in six sessions (third level would be pretty good), if you've not run a longer campaign it becomes important that you've had experience with higher levels of play. If you haven't had experience running things at levels higher than first, I'd start there, just to get the feel of it. If you have, then third level is a great place, but I'd recommend at least second level. As far as villain-power, remember this:
Heh, you could have left it right there. 4E characters are tough. The only time I managed to drop a character to negative HP was in the fourth encounter that day, but it was the Defender so I'm still counting that as a success. Are they at least having a hard time and just barely pull through, or do they breeze through everything?
That said, I must be doing it wrong, or something. So far, in both 4E campaigns I've DM'ed, I've rather steadily killed one player character per 'adventure'.
Campaign One: First adventure, I killed the paladin and permanently wounded/scarred one wizard. Second adventure I (almost) "killed" both wizards (one twice), the rogue, and the cleric (they used up all their healing potions on him and every healing ability the party had to save his life). Third adventure, I more-or-less killed the non-wounded wizard, again, twice (she got better).

Campaign Two: First adventure, I killed the rogue (he got better!), and turned him into a newt dragon[SWAO="*"] (he got better... sort of)[/SWAP].

Another example situation I and a friend came up with would be a slave galleon, where characters could be anything from slaves or slave drivers to the captain or a passenger; play out one normal day on the galleon, and then have it get into a storm and crash, with the PCs as the only survivors, left with barely any equipment in a dangerous area. That, we thought, has a lot of potential, especially with slaves and slave drivers - they just established a hierarchy and the slave driver has probably made himself unpopular, and now they're suddenly on equal ground and have to work together. Wow. This is one of the most awesome campaign-openers I've ever heard of. I may just have to steal it. (please)

On campaign openers, here's three I've run or prepared that I especially liked. There are a couple of ALTernate or possible reasons/explanations for them that I haven't tested, but might work for your game(s):
* the party wakes up more or less naked in the middle of a field that has obviously undergone an explosion (there are bits and pieces of clothes they can cover themselves with around). They seem unscathed. None of them have any of their memories.
~ ALT: they know exactly what happened, and each of them has a different story/reason for being there.
~ ALT: they're friends from a war-time band and on the battlefield.

* the party wakes up in the "rain", but everything is fuzzy and they feel others all around them. It's then they realize, it's not rain, they're in a dripping sewer, and the "others" are dead bodies. One has no memory, one has no tongue/voice (the illiterate savage bard {like barbarian}) who doesn't speak the local language, and one was deactivated at the time "stuff" happened (the warforged), meaning there's no way to communicate what really occured or how they all got down there. Then, they're pretty much immediately arrested.
~ ALT: they all have lycanthrope (probably were-rats)!
~ ALT: they were the survivors of a savage, cultic massacre.
~ ALT: both!

* the party is drafted into service by the local city. Any wandering "adventurers" who passed through are placed into assigned groups, put under contengient curses, given a minor magic item, and guaranteed food and decent wages for their services.
~ ALT: they all voluntarily showed up at recruitment centers
~ ALT: this is religious, not secular authority that performs the action/holds the drive (great for parties of divine classes).

[Meister]

That said, I must be doing it wrong, or something. So far, in both 4E campaigns I've DM'ed, I've rather steadily killed one player character per 'adventure'.
If you're regularly building enemies as PCs like you implied, that might be part of it - if that works for you and your group, by all means continue, but it's definitely not the way it's supposed to work. PC characters have a much larger average damage output and less hit points than monster/enemy characters, and they're designed to be able to survive many encounters per day, whereas monsters are designed to give all they have in one encounter. So if an enemy built as a PC character gives all they have against another PC character death is far more likely.

But if you're only doing that rarely and they regularly die against regular enemies then either your tactics are great or theirs aren't and they need to step up their game. :)

[tacticslion]

If you're regularly building enemies as PCs like you implied, that might be part of it - if that works for you and your group, by all means continue, but it's definitely not the way it's supposed to work.
Yeah, it's only for the recurring villains that I do this for. Further, I usually only do this after they've survived one full encounter. I don't wanna haf'ta go to the trouble make a nice, unique villain, then have him on display for one encounter.

But if you're only doing that rarely and they regularly die against regular enemies then either your tactics are great or theirs aren't and they need to step up their game. :)

I'd guess this, but my "tactics" have failed me against superior power as a player, though we were second level v. Umberhulks, so I'm not sure if that counts. Anyway, it works for my group, I guess. I'm just kind of surprised that this seemed so difficult to kill player characters - every time one of mine has nearly died (with the exception of the cleric), it was against fairly generic, unmodified monsters. The rogue in the second campaign was probalby overwhelmed by numbers, and a bit fatalistically reckless, but the paladin was just straight up killed. He was so badly ended so quickly, that I actually had him "live" (though unable to do anything) until the end of the encounter, so he could have a fare-well death-scene. The monster wasn't too far above party average, they had a couple of magic items higher than the monster, and, well, I don't know. The again, about the only one I haven't nearly killed in that game is the fighter.

[Azisien]

Heh, you could have left it right there. 4E characters are tough. The only time I managed to drop a character to negative HP was in the fourth encounter that day, but it was the Defender so I'm still counting that as a success. Are they at least having a hard time and just barely pull through, or do they breeze through everything?

They ended up having a so-so time with the spiders. Lots of bloodied all around, but nowhere near dying at any point. It's ok though, they only killed one spider, the rest simply retreated.

The encounter BEFORE I successfully ambushed them with the aptly named Ambush Drake, a few of 'em. It was the first time in a while I did put a PC into negative hit points. The shaman took the brunt of the ambush and dropped to -8HP in one round. Of course the party cleric used Return From Death's Door a round after that, which made us imagining this fight rather hilarious all around.

I am constantly trying to think of interesting challenges, moreso than ever with 4E. My group will get quite high and mighty if they go more than a few encounters with little difficulty, but I also don't want to dishearten them by throwing level 16 monsters at them. I do have some climatic campaign moments coming soon, too.

Anybody got any good ideas on encounters near or around a volcano?

[DarkDrgon]

ok, I think ive mentioned my Video game campaigns before, but I have a dilema. Half of my players love the Pokemon/Fantasy mashup Im doing and the other half is totally bored with it and wants to move back to a Hyrule or my own setting game.

The pokemon has brought 3 new players into the group that probably will not join in on a setting shift yet, but might If I keep letting them play Pokemon Trainer/Beastmasters. any advice?

[tacticslion]

Anybody got any good ideas on encounters near or around a volcano? Well, the obvious one is the magma beasts, considering, you know, they're made of magma.

Archons have fire archons and elementals give you the firelasher and rockfire dreadnought, while several demons - especially the undead Immolith - make fine choices and almost all devils have decent fire resistance. Fire giants and fire titans could settle in a volcanoe, and would be likely to do so.

Ifreet, salamanders, nightmares, and azers all add a nice extra-planar touch with a less "generic" feel. You also have some decent draconic selections, with Red Dragons, or Red Dragon Spawn. Alternatively, if you've got the chromatic draconomicon, a fantastic one is the pyroclastic dragon, but you're players have to be really tough for that. Even if you decide to go with the standard kinds, you could create a polychromatic dragon and surprise your players with a white dragon with fire resistance, or something similar.

Undead devotees could consist of flameskulls with their fire resistance and regeneration. Backed up by hell hounds, these could be cultists dedicated to the elemental chaos/primordials, maybe even led by a primordial naga (although those are normally level 25, so yours might want to be 'permanently wounded' or de leveled somesuch).

If you're looking for more esoteric, less obvious stuff, you could pull something like air archons [Manual of the Planes] with the warlock dark pact (focus on poison spells) [class-on-monsters template in DMG, dark pact in Forgotten Realms Player's Guide], mindfire miasma (a type of living breathweapon from the draconomicon [chromatic]), and galeb duhrs with the and the scion of fire template [MM and DMG]: these all work well with a volcano theme while avoiding any "cliche" stereotypes.

Heck, if you really wanna throw the party for a loop, simply drop a nest of pheonixes on them.

Other fiery critters include scorpions (hellfire scorpions) and snakes (flaming cobras) - both of which are great with the combined poison/fire theme. A group of trolls with the fire scion template would be downright evil, but easily doable.

Really, what level, scope, and theme (other than "volcano") are you looking for? I could PM you some of the stats for stuff, if you need, but it's really just up to you. I'm liking the archon-living breath weapon-galeb duhr combo, myself, but that would be 16/18, 27, and 8/11 level combo - in other words it would need adjustment or it's balance'd be all over the place. You mentioned before that your characters were 7th level, but is that still true? How many volcanic encounters do you need? Have you checked the XP-budget in the DMG to figure your desired number and kind of encounters?

EDIT:
any advice? Why, yes, I'm full of it! Advice, I mean! Yeah, that's it! Advice...

Er, ANYway...
ok, I think ive mentioned my Video game campaigns before, but I have a dilema. Half of my players love the Pokemon/Fantasy mashup Im doing and the other half is totally bored with it and wants to move back to a Hyrule or my own setting game.

The pokemon has brought 3 new players into the group that probably will not join in on a setting shift yet, but might If I keep letting them play Pokemon Trainer/Beastmasters.
The question is, what's wrong with doing both? One of the fun things about fantasy gaming is the ability to blend two things that ordinarily shouldn't work. Really, if you drop it into Hyrule, you can let them be trainer/beastmasters. It's okay. In fact, it would be very similar to sorcerers who'd be using Ganon's powers against him. The trick and deal is you must, must, must make your conjurers do the legwork. Ensure that they have the stats prepped before hand, limit them to the known critters, and rely on them to handle most things. They can't sit around and let you do it all - you're only one person. In a "catch and bind" system like pokemon, that's easy enough - they only have what they catch. You can do the same thing in Hyrule, too. Ganon's minions are effectively shadow-monsters based on the way they (often) burst into puffs of smoke when defeated. This would make perfect sense, then, that mystically-minded characters would desire to capture the villain's own magic and turn it against him. Alternatively (or simultaneously, in different ways) there's the Beast Master prestige class in the Complete Adventurer (a 3.5 book) that allows you to have tons of animal companions. Let someone design a druid or ranger, take away one or two spells or specials, grant them a familiar, and let them take that prestige class, and you've got a variant conjuerer who uses natural power against unnatural mystical forces, or however you want to spin it. Perhaps they can only take their companions/familiars from The Big Bad's forces? Whatever you want, you can design.
Hope that helps! By the way, what edition are you playing?

[DarkDrgon]

The problem is I already have an established campaign in hyrule. In the last D&D thread I talked about the adventures I ran based on Majoras Mask, and then segued into ocarina of time. The Pokemon campaign is a seperate one based on a small continent in my Campaign setting that looks suspiciously like if Johto got smashed onto the coast of australia, and the locals didnt take kindly to it.

So I can't just transplant characters from one setting to another. I have no problem allowing any class they want to play. im in 3.5, btw.

[tacticslion]

The problem is I already have an established campaign in hyrule. In the last D&D thread I talked about the adventures I ran based on Majoras Mask, and then segued into ocarina of time. The Pokemon campaign is a seperate one based on a small continent in my Campaign setting that looks suspiciously like if Johto got smashed onto the coast of australia, and the locals didnt take kindly to it.

So I can't just transplant characters from one setting to another. I have no problem allowing any class they want to play. im in 3.5, btw.

Excellent, you have many more options with 3.X stuff! I do remember your old posts, but I can't check them now that the old forums "blow'd up".

So: how much of the Hyrulian Campaign setting and the Poke-mon one did you specify to your players? Hyrule is large, and if you already established a Majora's Mask as a seperate reality (I don't know if you did, the video games indicated it, though) there's nothing to stop your Johto-Australia from being part of that broader "omniverse"*, or even a different part of the world, if your poke-verse isn't fully explored. Simply, quite literally, drop your characters through a hole in reality. You could, in fact, make it a plot point: someone or something is trying to a) gain a foot hold in reality, or b) trying to gain power and delving into Something Bad. That Something Bad could easily create a worm-hole, either letting things through, or drawing things in. Either way: bam, you've suddenly got a way from one world to the other. It could be very interesting to have your pokemasters match wits with Ganon's summoned hordes. Perhaps even a minor mind-bending journey through the far realm first, if you're omniverse is run that way (some of mine are, some aren't).

If, on the other hand, you've pretty clearly established "this is all there can be" in the Hyrulian-verse, than you've got a bit more of an issue. Are the players attatched to their current characters, or just the idea of being a poke-master-like character? If it's their current characters, and some of your gaming buddies just don't want to continue, you could split into two campaigns, either alternating (one every other week) or running two per week - which is a lot on you. On the other hand, if they're really attached to the idea, instead, you could simply establish a new kind of magic. In LoZ II, LoZ:LttP, LoZ:OoT, LoZ:MM, LoZ:WW, and LoZ:TP all introduced different kinds of magic - what's to stop you from doing so yourself? A new magical source could be discovered for this adventure, and several of your players have it. I don't know how your current pokemon set up is, but with a few visual alterations you could easily** adapt the elemental system to Hyrule.

* "Omniverse" is kind of a stupid word, but I use it because it makes it easier to communicate the concept multple layers to reality, even though "universe" is, by definition, inclusive of all there is in all existance.

* "Easy" being completely relative. You'd have to come up with fanciful and intrigueing visual descriptions, and explanations (if you don't have one) for an elemental system in your world. Further, you'd have to have some sort of explanation (however vague) for how such power works. So, you know.

[DarkDrgon]

yeah, the non-gamers are pretty attacked to their pokemon characters, and the gamers are more in the mood to go back to "actual" D&D. The gamers are sick of pokemon completely, and would prefer to be more hands on. ive offered to have them switch classes completely, or change characters without a problem, but they are sick of the beasts alltogether. Running 2 games woul be way too draining on me, unless I use a module which makes me feel dirty as a DM

[tacticslion]

yeah, the non-gamers are pretty attacked to their pokemon characters, and the gamers are more in the mood to go back to "actual" D&D. The gamers are sick of pokemon completely, and would prefer to be more hands on. ive offered to have them switch classes completely, or change characters without a problem, but they are sick of the beasts alltogether. Running 2 games woul be way too draining on me, unless I use a module which makes me feel dirty as a DM

Whelp, that seems to be about it, then. DnD is a cooperative game, and if you have players who simply refuse to cooperate, you don't have a game. Your options, as I see them, if you can't get the two to play together are:
~ get one to DM one campaign, and continue/start DMing another yourself (you can be a player in one, if you like)
~ let people go from your group

This is really all I can see here: if neither are willing to let the other play style "interfere" and you can't reconcile the two simultaneously, this is really all I can see left. Let me tell you from first hand experience, ultimatums can really, really suck - badly. But if you've too many demands, simply say, "Hey, I can't do this, I'm sorry." I know it's hard advice to hear, it's hard to give, but it's all I've got at this point!

[Azisien]

Well, the obvious one is the magma beasts, considering, you know, they're made of magma.

Archons have fire archons and elementals give you the firelasher and rockfire dreadnought, while several demons - especially the undead Immolith - make fine choices and almost all devils have decent fire resistance. Fire giants and fire titans could settle in a volcanoe, and would be likely to do so.

Ifreet, salamanders, nightmares, and azers all add a nice extra-planar touch with a less "generic" feel. You also have some decent draconic selections, with Red Dragons, or Red Dragon Spawn. Alternatively, if you've got the chromatic draconomicon, a fantastic one is the pyroclastic dragon, but you're players have to be really tough for that. Even if you decide to go with the standard kinds, you could create a polychromatic dragon and surprise your players with a white dragon with fire resistance, or something similar.

Undead devotees could consist of flameskulls with their fire resistance and regeneration. Backed up by hell hounds, these could be cultists dedicated to the elemental chaos/primordials, maybe even led by a primordial naga (although those are normally level 25, so yours might want to be 'permanently wounded' or de leveled somesuch).

If you're looking for more esoteric, less obvious stuff, you could pull something like air archons [Manual of the Planes] with the warlock dark pact (focus on poison spells) [class-on-monsters template in DMG, dark pact in Forgotten Realms Player's Guide], mindfire miasma (a type of living breathweapon from the draconomicon [chromatic]), and galeb duhrs with the and the scion of fire template [MM and DMG]: these all work well with a volcano theme while avoiding any "cliche" stereotypes.

Heck, if you really wanna throw the party for a loop, simply drop a nest of pheonixes on them.

Other fiery critters include scorpions (hellfire scorpions) and snakes (flaming cobras) - both of which are great with the combined poison/fire theme. A group of trolls with the fire scion template would be downright evil, but easily doable.Hope that helps! By the way, what edition are you playing?

I'm playing 4E. I guess I was a little vague. There will be a magma beast, but I was thinking more environmental quirks to throw into the mix, beyond the obvious "the volcano erupts." Which it may or may not, as determined mostly by PC success.

[tacticslion]

I'm playing 4E. I guess I was a little vague. There will be a magma beast, but I was thinking more environmental quirks to throw into the mix, beyond the obvious "the volcano erupts." Which it may or may not, as determined mostly by PC success.

I think I see, now. Now to prove I don't!

So, like environmental skill challenges? Whelp. You got your acrobatics, your athletics, your dungeoneering, your endurance, your nature, and your perception as the basic various volcanoe events-related skills. I think they're pretty self explanitory, but then again, my brain's odd, so...
~ Acrobatics: dodging falling rock, fire/steam spurts, evading sudden poisonous fissures and the like, as well as nimbly squeezing through cravasses, stepping carefully over small steps, successfully attaching grappling hooks to their target, etc.
~ Athletics: climbing! Also, moving rocks out of the way (treat as a modified strength check), jumping across yawning chasms, and the like. Also, using the ropes from the afore-mentioned grappling hooks once it caught on.
~ Dungeoneering: figuring out the best way to go to avoid danger, understanding various volcanic features, and recognizing volcanic monsters.
~ Endurance: it's hot. Very hot. Roll and/or lose a healing surge.
~ Nature: similar to dungeoneering, but with more focus on the natural causes of a volcano and more specific generalities of "don't do this" or "usually do that".
~ Perception: it's the skill that lets people do the acrobatics, athletics, dungeoneering, and nature checks!

Unusual skills that might grant one or two successes: heal (here, this'll help reduce the heat-stress/soothe your burns), history (oh, I've heard of this other volcano...), religion ("Vulcan is the deity of volcanoes, so let's give 'im a ritualistic prayer and 1gp offering"), and stealth ("walk cautiously, or we could set off an avalanche of soot").

Over all, I'd recommend a moderately high number of skill challenges with low DCs, little complexity, and comparitively minor penalties for failure, like, "don't fall or take 1d6 damage", or "don't wake the sleeping magma monsters" or "can you take the heat, or do you lose a healing surge?" or "is that a safe cave, or will scalding steam hit you half way down?" type things.

As far as non-skill specific stuff, the manual of the planes has a few good ones, like elemental seepage (4 contiguous squares of viscous, pulsating, harmless mass; +1/tier to attacks with a specific elemental keyword), hellfire (brilliant light 20 squares, add fire key word to attacks from adjacent; inside take 5/tier ongoing fire damage (save ends), failed save increases by 5/tier, max 3x original), phase rock (looks normal, insubstantial and so are you while within it), and energy crystals (store elemental damage type that hits them, deals 5/tier of it to all adjacent until the end of the attacker's next turn); for trap-like effects a wandering cloud of burning vapor. You could have numerous minor quakes (which leads to dodging rocks ala Death Mountain), or the (long-ago) death by old age of a Red Dragon leading to environmental diffusion: a dragon-shaped rift with "sulfurous geysers or small volcanic vents that emit foul-smelling and acrid smoke, even when not erupting". In other areas, a "permanent wildfire results, never spreading beyond the boundaries of the diffusion and never burning out, regardless of fuel or weather." If you're tired of the fire-and-rock theme, other dragons have other diffusions (all roughly dragon-shaped of their size at death). Push comes to shove, you could literally lift the volcano into a flying volcano (though I don't know how long it would realistically last as a volcano, per se) via an epic ritual (in Player's Guide to Faerun) that the baddies might have discovered and ancient scroll of (meaning they don't have to be that level to cast it).

Other stuff includes harrowing races across narrow bridges while being chased by fiery gargoyles, avoiding acid rain, or saving a new-hatched infant white dragon. I dunno, is any of this what you're looking for?

[Azisien]

Yes, those are some great suggestions and I'm going to definitely incorporate some and hopefully remember to report back on how they went. :)

[Meister]

There's a great alternative skill challenge system floating around that I'd recommend checking out. It's the only outside material I'm letting in my 4E campaign. In that system, challenges are held in three segments (which could be three rounds, or three hours, or whatever), and in every segment, each player rolls against a fixed DC determined by party level. The overall number of successes at the end determines success, partial success or failure of the entire challenge. I've found that in the regular skill challenge system I'd have to carefully prepare settings and struggle to include enough opportunities for skill checks to meet the desired complexity, while this one lends itself far more easily to improvisation - you give your players a situation, they tell you how they approach it, they roll for an appropriate skill, done.

Example: I had my players get into a snowstorm en route between two places. Visibility was down, and a layer of snow was quickly building up. Things my players did were grab a shield and start shovelling (Athletics), sing songs to keep everyone's spirits up (Diplomacy), watch out for telltale signs of frostbite (Heal) or curse at the snowstorm (Intimidate - I allowed that because they were already over the requisite number for a full success anyway, and I thought, what the hell, but in retrospect it could also have taken it as another way to keep everyone's spirits up.). A success meant they found an excellent resting place with little problems, a partial success would have meant getting slightly lost, losing two healing surges each but then finding the resting place, and a failure would have meant getting lost completely, losing two healing surges and getting into a fight with goblins.

You can download a pdf here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/241440-stalker0s-obsidian-skill-challenge-system-new-version-1-2-a.html) if you're interested.

[tacticslion]

Heyo, I don't need any of the stuff from the adventure I'd asked about... I found it! Woot! So, uh, yeah. Thanks!

[Azisien]

So I decided to throw an Adult Green Dragon at the level 7 party that wouldn't die.

Yeah...that put them in their place. The battle took 3.5 hours and they only won because I designed structural weaknesses in the cavern they were fighting in to deal massive damage to the dragon if they positioned it under the weakness.

[tacticslion]

So I decided to throw an Adult Green Dragon at the level 7 party that wouldn't die.

Yeah...that put them in their place. The battle took 3.5 hours and they only won because I designed structural weaknesses in the cavern they were fighting in to deal massive damage to the dragon if they positioned it under the weakness.

Nice, and excellent use of area for your encounter! Thanks for the update! I really appreciate people who update! Now, Meister, about your thing... ;)

On a slightly more serious note: I'm looking for a book, or rather, more specifically two creatures in said book. I own the book (bought it at Barnes and Noble in Miami), but, because of the way the movers put our stuff when we moved into our house, I can't find it. Unfortunately, I can't recall the exact title, but it's something like "Perilous Foes" or "Ultimate Monsters" or somesuch over-the-top thing and bills itself as campaign and world-ending monsters/events. The specific two items I'm looking for are this kind of undead moon thing, and a living asteroid "mother" creature with poisonous positive energy. What I'm looking for, if anyone has it, are names, rough histories, and the gist of what they are, all found within its description, but none of which I have available right now. Other things that are in the book (for the purpose of jogging memory, if you guys have seen it):
~ a moon filled with negative energy causing the undead to run rampant!
~ a mad "mother" astroid, now made with real corrupt positive energy!
~ some monster or another that basically regrows from his horn (starts with a "Z", I think)
~ Kysuss, the demigod of worms
~ some other stuff I can't remember

EDIT: Thanks 7Days! I now have one of the two I was looking for: Atropus, possibly the first Atropal! Rockin'!
EDIT 2: Thanks Yumil, too! I now have the other I was looking for: Ragnorra, the mother of monsters! Very rockin'! You guys are awesome!

[7days]

The book is Elder Evils. But damned if I can remember the names of the monsters right now.

[Yumil]

On a slightly more serious note: I'm looking for a book, or rather, more specifically two creatures in said book. I own the book (bought it at Barnes and Noble in Miami), but, because of the way the movers put our stuff when we moved into our house, I can't find it. Unfortunately, I can't recall the exact title, but it's something like "Perilous Foes" or "Ultimate Monsters" or somesuch over-the-top thing and bills itself as campaign and world-ending monsters/events. The specific two items I'm looking for are this kind of undead moon thing, and a living asteroid "mother" creature with poisonous positive energy. What I'm looking for, if anyone has it, are names, rough histories, and the gist of what they are, all found within its description, but none of which I have available right now. Other things that are in the book (for the purpose of jogging memory, if you guys have seen it):
~ a moon filled with negative energy causing the undead to run rampant!
~ a mad "mother" astroid, now made with real corrupt positive energy!
~ some monster or another that basically regrows from his horn (starts with a "Z", I think)
~ Kysuss, the demigod of worms
~ some other stuff I can't remember


Here is a wiki article with what you want(Sort of, it gives you a good idea about who they are and their names in the least):
Here you go. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Apocalypse_(Crivis_Supplement))

[Meister]

On the one hand they didn't catch on to the dodge-the-charging-brute method until halfway through the fight, and not without some subtle prompting. On the other they set up a cooperative effort with an additional bull rush at the same time they'd reduced him to 0 HP anyway, which gave me the opportunity to describe the plan working perfectly and roll 10d10 for show, so I'd say overall it was a success.

[Julford Hajime]

Just started my group up Saturday, after having nobody show up for the first hour (We only have a four-hour timeslot to work with because of location), and then the second person not showing up until the end of the second hour. Ended up just having them both draw up two third level characters so we'd have a full party of four, and then kicked things off with roughly 40 minutes left in our session.

Aparently having only one other person to argue your plan with (Instead of our usual three to five) makes the group run like lightning, because they managed to break into jail, rescue the convicted party member (Set up, sham trial, etc.), knock three of the four guards unconscious, stabilize said three guards to guarantee they don't die, ransack an evidence locker for convicted members' equipment, and get the hell out of dodge. Normally this would've been a four hour affair, and they pulled it off in 30 minutes.

Shit. If they keep this kind of pace up, they'll pretty much finish everything I had planned for them by the end of the month. Oh well, I gave them an easy encounter (The guards were all basic level 2 soldiers made using the DMG, and didn't manage to call for any more help before being totally curbstomped by three third level PCs) and rushed through a lot of the descriptions, so next session will (Hopefully) take the four hours I planned for it.

[7days]

I'm setting up a halloween one-shot built around The WOD:Slasher book. Not really using much from the book itself, but it got me thinking about the whole genre of slasher movies and this year it's my turn to build something for my RPGing group. My problem is I've got two diffent concepts, and I can't decide between them. On one hand, I've got an idea where I set up the perfect college town with all the elements of a slasher genre world, assign each of the players a different type of slasher and whoever get the highest bodycount at the end of the night wins. On the other hand, I got the same world but the players are the college students trying to survive. Now the reason I'm torn is that it seems like every year we do a halloween game, it's the players trying to survive a different supernatural menace, but if I do the players as slashers I'm not sure that everyone will be interested in playing amoral serial killers murdering innocents. The third option is to have some of the players play killers and some play victims, but I kinda want to limit the number of players to 6 and that's not realy enough to split. Any input would be appreciated.

[Meister]

I'd just ask them if they're up for it - sure it spoils the surprise, but that's probably better than either playing something people are uncomfortable with or missing the opportunity to play something different.

[tacticslion]

So, my group that had were unable to decide where they wanted to go reconviened the other day. They were exploring the night realm, and (having done a lot of my-game-specific legwork before hand) bypassed a number of issues and went directly to the control tower. Prior to this event, a large number of NPCs (of various skills and abilities, mostly adventurers/warriors) had been rescued/dragged into this realm with them. One player had even managed to use her psychic abilities combined with her shapechanging to sway an entire orc/hobgoblin mixed troup group (about fifty or so) to follow her (seeing her as the heir to an ancient local legend of theirs).

At the control tower, they carefully walked up the steps and met a powerful, dying psychic. After some conversation (and story-based reveals) a powerful effect happened, and they were all dropped unconscious. For two weeks. Now, do to the nature of time on this plane, not quite one day in any realm other than this one, but that still leaves the NPCs and nigh-fanatic orcs/hobgoblins against an entire undead army. It'll be fun to see what happens when the PCs wake up two weeks later and all the NPCs who survive who were a lower level than they were (first and second level compared to fourth and fifth) suddenly be of a higher level than they are (sixth and seventh level). Good times.

Also: neat to hear the update Meister! And yeah, 7days, I'd generally agree with big M, there - if you're worried that they'll be uncomfortable, give them the option. I think that'll work out the best.

[walkertexasdruid]

Is ok to use some elements from your favorite books, such as Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind, The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, and Terry Brooks' Shanarra series, in your D&D campaign? For some reason the last player I DMed for really objected to me using some of those ideas. I do not know what his problem was, when he DMed he had Sephiroth and Sidney from Vagrant Story in his campaign. Did I do anything wrong?

[Nikose Tyris]

Is ok to use some elements from your favorite books, such as Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind, The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, and Terry Brooks' Shanarra series, in your D&D campaign? For some reason the last player I DMed for really objected to me using some of those ideas. I do not know what his problem was, when he DMed he had Sephiroth and Sidney from Vagrant Story in his campaign. Did I do anything wrong?

It's bad when NPC's overshadow your heroes. Don't give them more screentime, don't let them show up and overshadow and Dues Ex your game.

If you want to offhandedly mention Elminster or Drizzt, you're welcome to it- just don't ruin things by having Eliminster show up when things are going badly and fix everything.


The campaign books Cormyr, Shadowdale and Aunoroch (Forgotten Realms 3.5 books) do this wonderfully. You hear about all these heroes and they all rely on your characters, and they're reasonably low level.

I'd advise browsing those books if you can get access to them for examples on how to effectively use legendary NPC's in your game. [Also you totally kill Scyllua Darkhope in Shadowdale. Seriously!)

[Fifthfiend]

Is ok to use some elements from your favorite books, such as Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind, The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, and Terry Brooks' Shanarra series, in your D&D campaign? For some reason the last player I DMed for really objected to me using some of those ideas. I do not know what his problem was, when he DMed he had Sephiroth and Sidney from Vagrant Story in his campaign. Did I do anything wrong?

You included a person who included Sephiroth in his game in your game.

EDIT also, Sword of Truth :(

[Meister]

If you want to include specific characters as NPCs Nikose's advice is sound. I'd add that it's probably a good idea to not just do that for the hell of it. One DM I know would often describe other adventuring parties we'd hear of as little side jokes and about 90% of the time these jokes would fall flat because either half of us didn't know who he meant (once he clearly described the 8BT cast and I'm pretty sure only I got it) or there wasn't much to do with the information other than go "whelp yeah I guess Roy Greenhilt and Dumbledore passed through here, we get it, but that doesn't actually help us retrieve the Crown of Bollocks from the Lethal Cave."

Basically unless you're playing in their specific setting including known characters as NPCs can get awkward, just be aware of that. :)

If, on the other hand, you just mean general character ideas or plot elements there's a saying that goes "every DM steals" and I advise you to keep it in mind at all times and apply it liberally. Like, don't make an adventure where the party has to return a magic ring to its forge to destroy it (not without parody elementy, anyway) but reappropriating minor plot elements or adapt characters is totally a-okay.

You included a person who included Sephiroth in his game in your game.
Yeah that may in fact be the actual problem and everything I wrote is just so much nerd theory.

[Nikose Tyris]

So, my group is currently in a town that is under Zhentarim Occupation.

Group consists of a Hellbred Paladin of Mystra, a Forestlord Moon Elf Cleric of Io, a Deep Imaskari Wizard, and a Dark Human Shadowcaster/Sorcerer (and now a Noctumancer)

It was an information gathering session. Cleric was antsy and trying to pick fights everywhere we went, so Paladin had to organize our Q&A period and where to look for what information. We split up, so 4 seperate stories.

Paladin: Went to the homes of local business owners to ask how they feel about the Zhentarim occupation, and purposely overpaid for every item he bought. He won a lot of affection, but he spoke to Weregund, the local general store owner- who happens to be a Zhentarim spy. The Spy put him in contact with the 'free shadowdale alliance' which gets rounded up and arrested every two weeks for stirring- up trouble. Which is amazing. Class ability of spies is an auto-undetectable alignment, so Pally-boy had no chance of figuring it out- he relies on his Detect Evil and never Sense Motive.

Cleric went to the different temples in town (To Chauntea, goddess of the harvest, to Tymora, Goddess of Luck), and got some minor information at each location. Also stopped by the enemy barracks to pick a fight with some guards and stole about 4 sets of Zhentarim guard uniforms. He also went to the festhall, which the Zhents had turned into a brothel.
He purchased an hour with a young lady, and offered her a very, very healthy sum (20 gold for a 2 silver working girl) to feed him information from the officers she services.
Which may be the most impressive gather information check I've ever seen.

The shadowcaster swung around to every adept in town and brokered information regarding magic, and found out about sharran activity in the area, and a weave-degredation spell that's ongoing, weaking magic and destroying it all together in some places.

The Wizard (my girlfriend) had a wild moodswing, and decided she didn't want to do anything and didn't want to play, so she declared she'd just stay in her room, scribing scrolls, and went to bed early.

After they met back up, they decided to use their fake mercenary group cover to investigate with other mercs, and went down to the bar.

It took maybe 3 sentences for "What's your merc group called?" to come up and none of them remember the name of it.
Followed up with not remembering what suites they were in, at the inn.
The Paladin is now officially taking notes and keeping track of maps they buy.

[Terex4]

I came up with an idea that should be unique. If I take over as DM one of my players will be a 20 year vet so I've been wracking my brain for something he hasn't dealt with.

I was flipping through the 2nd edition book of artifacts and came across The Apparatus. The idea here is to put the PCs into a situation where they are captured and preferably knocked out. Then put all of their names into a hat and have them draw names (drawing again if they pull their own).

For those unfamiliar with the powers of The Apparatus, its basically a body switching device. It can also split a person into two separate people comprising one half of their alignment choice and competing for the position of the "true" individual (A lawful good character would be split into a heavily lawful twin and a heavily good twin). You can also just choose major traits of the whole character to separate, alignment is just a tool here.

So when the PCs awake, they find themselves occupying the body of the person who's name they drew. They keep the same int and wis scores but all other stats are of the new body.

Make sure that at least one PC swaps gender and hope for the dwarf to get the elf's body for maximum entertainment.

[walkertexasdruid]

If you want to include specific characters as NPCs Nikose's advice is sound. I'd add that it's probably a good idea to not just do that for the hell of it. One DM I know would often describe other adventuring parties we'd hear of as little side jokes and about 90% of the time these jokes would fall flat because either half of us didn't know who he meant (once he clearly described the 8BT cast and I'm pretty sure only I got it) or there wasn't much to do with the information other than go "whelp yeah I guess Roy Greenhilt and Dumbledore passed through here, we get it, but that doesn't actually help us retrieve the Crown of Bollocks from the Lethal Cave."

Basically unless you're playing in their specific setting including known characters as NPCs can get awkward, just be aware of that. :)

If, on the other hand, you just mean general character ideas or plot elements there's a saying that goes "every DM steals" and I advise you to keep it in mind at all times and apply it liberally. Like, don't make an adventure where the party has to return a magic ring to its forge to destroy it (not without parody elementy, anyway) but reappropriating minor plot elements or adapt characters is totally a-okay.


Yeah that may in fact be the actual problem and everything I wrote is just so much nerd theory.

That is very good advice. I do not really have worry about my former player anymore anyway. His main problem was that if it was not his idea, he did not like it. Funny enough, my most successful session with him was when his powerful spellcaster had to reverse my modified version of Chainfire. I thought would take a few sessions, but he managed to find all three Boxes, defeat the crazy archavist who initiated the spell, and correctly open them to save the world, all in one session. I think my problem was that I felt that I had to hit him with something grander the next time, and he told me that it was just too overwhelming, and that his wizard wanted to slow things down. I guess I was too worried about topping myself, and not as concerned with what my PC wanted. I will try to be a better GM next time I try to run a campaign.

[The Argent Lord]

I'm running the 4e conversion of Tomb of Horrors on Sunday for a group containing two 4e virgins, one D&D virgin, and nobody who's played in more than 3 adventures total. I think I'll be kinda and let them "save-state" once per room.

[Nikose Tyris]

Don't do that. It takes away from what "Tomb of Horrors" is, at it's core. Nobody runs tomb of horrors expecting to win. You go in to see how far you can make it.

In 3.5 it was a terrible way to start players, too- it turned off a few friends to the game forever. I'm wondering what it'll do in 4E?

[The Argent Lord]

Well, I'm running it as essentially a one-shot, with a less murderous campaign afterward, because several of my players are disappearing to college in two weeks. I plan to TELL them that it will be a horrible place where they will die a lot, and besides, saves never hurt IWBTG.

[Nikose Tyris]

IWBTG would have been better with no saves.

And no gun.

Zangief Only.

[Meister]

It's got to be a better introduction than Keep on the Shadowfell.

[tacticslion]

It's got to be a better introduction than Keep on the Shadowfell.

I think it would be hard to be worse!

Casual change of topic: what's IWBTG. I ask, of course, because I want to see if you know*. I, being the self-styled uber-nerd that I am, already know*! Of course*!

*These statements are completely true, given this: a very broad definition of both "completely" and "true".

[Nikose Tyris]

IWBTG is I wanna be the Guy. It`s a game designed to piss you off.

[tacticslion]

IWBTG is I wanna be the Guy. It`s a game designed to piss you off.

Ah, yes. Thanks. Now I'm up to speed (I'm aware of this game for realz, this time)! I just wasn't sure what the abbreviation meant.
...
Er, I mean, yes, excellent job! You've passed the test! Here, have this one, free, invisible, intangible, nonredeemable, false, but otherwise completely real internet cookie as your prize!

... ALSO, as a piece of Game Mastery advice, which is technically on topic, if you plan on running one campaign with four 'mini' campaigns in between important plot points, make sure your players are both aware of the breaks and are interested in continuing the "main" game after you finish the first mini-break. Yeah, I don't know that from experience*.

*Actually, I do.

[Nikose Tyris]

in D&D 3.5, the "Complete Divine" sourcebook has a variant on turning that deals pure damage.

If a creature has turn resistance it's supposed to let him ignore a certain amount of damage.

That's really really shitty. It weakens turn resistance a lot. a quick mod we did in our games, if a monster has turn resistance +4 then the cleric doing the turning deals 4 less dice of damage.

Much more balanced.

Also killing a lich in two turns because of a readied-action counterspell and a dick of a paladin sucks.


We had a huge intimidation factor going on and the characters walked it off. It was depressing.

[Nikose Tyris]

TDK: Turn resistance is usually a 4. So that's a horrible idea. <3 Since a paladin with improved turning would stomp it into the ground pretty much every time.

Edit: ...my post just time-traveled. It's 6:30 here, and it put my post before TDK's at like, 2:35. TDK's post says 2:54.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[TDK]

Another idea. The turn resistance works like spell resistance, the thing with turn resistance makes a d20+turn resistance roll against the turn check. If the undead wins, no damage. If the turner wins, he does damage.

[tacticslion]

Welp! I now work from 7:30 to 4:30 every day except Saturdays and Sundays. I also drive two hours each way on each of those days (making my days actually 5:30AM-6:30PM). Since it's a teaching job, I also need to spend (at least) two hours each of those days working outside of my "official" hours. I also need to be in bed by 10, or else it's dangerous for me to drive, and I don't play that way. On Sundays I work at one church from 8 AM to 1 PM, and attend another from 5-6. Now, occasionally, I'll sneak onto a website or something (like this one), but I'm fairly booked.

So! My time, is obviously being cut short. Any suggestions on how to run a campaign (or two) with roughly two hours of free time per week day, one "free" day per week (not including household chores, of course), and between three to five hours on a Saturday?

* Alternate title: "Necro-fu and You, A Necromancer's Guide to Web-based Necromancy". I blame Thaddeus, myself. Mary's a necromancer and is still lawful good! Necromancers are cool! You can't control me forever!1!1!1!1! ... Also, sorry for the dead thread bump.

[walkertexasdruid]

As a DM, is ok to create your own monsters, magical items, major artifacts, ect., or should you just stick what is in the books?

[McTahr]

As a DM, is ok to create your own monsters, magical items, major artifacts, ect., or should you just stick what is in the books?

The problem with making your own homebrew stuff is that if you don't follow the trends and power creep of the regular items/monsters/whatever very closely, you can quite easily wind up with something either insidiously overpowered, or just plain not worth using (or too hard/too easy for the rewards for monsters). Don't be afraid to try homebrew stuff, but definitely do not half-ass it. They offer tables in the back of the Monster Manual in 4th Edition I believe for the different monster types, and from there you can generally get an idea of how strong the monster should be. They have a small guide under the magical implements for making implements for non-listed abilities, but I don't remember the specifics off-hand.

Generally, if I'm in a hurry, I take monsters that fit the rough idea of what I want my homebrew monster to do, and then manipulate powers/exploits and skills to match appropriately. (Example: I was running a little goofy Left 4 Dead cameo one-shot game for some friends, and modified Ghouls to have a leap attack, dropping the immobilizing effect they have.)

Anyway, DM story along the same vein, same game even:
I was running this game (The Left 4 Dead cameo game) and they reached the point of the Tank. They were on the second floor of a building, and it charged in through the front door of the bottom floor, and began punching through the floor at them whenever they made noise. (It was a little overpowered for them to take in a straight-up fight, so I designed a little bit of a trick to killing it more easily into the fight, and dropped hints as such.)

Basically, after the first hit, a painting wobbled on the wall from the shock, plonked onto the ground and bounced down the hole, tonking the Tank on the head. Within line of sight, already reported to all of the party, were various large, heavy objects. Full-size tubs, rows of lockers, large hardwood benches, etc.

The party proceeded to start simply ranged attack spamming the Tank whenever they could get line of sight and getting slammed around, while the cleric was actually walking downstairs, and the ranger tried to hang through one of the holes and shoot the tank while hanging by his knees. (He failed the arbitrary acrobatics check.)

Needless to say, I'm amazed they're alive.

(The psion eventually got the fighter to go along with operation "Bang on the heavy stuff" and win.)

[walkertexasdruid]

That was good advice. I will keep that in mind.

[Terisse]

Note: 3.5ed here.

The next time I feel the need to DM, my plans generally include extraplanar settings as long as the PCs are at least fifth level. I usually delay on introducing new planar settings until about level 10 to give them at least a fair chance of surviving outside of the material/ethereal planes. One of my personal favorite planes though, is Ysgard for plenty of reasons, and for one of the NPCs, the plan is to get down to the second layer, Muspelheim, and make it to the (The NPC is a Fatemaker, prestige class in the Planar Handbook, supplement to the Manual of the Planes.)

The Fatemaker is AL CN, and though he does need help getting past the fire giants, he's too stubborn for his own good and usually refuses help. However, if he dies, the party will make some serious enemies, what with being a high ranking member of a material plane guild that effectively spans the damn world.

Now that the general plot is given, my issue is how to handle magic items to assist with planar travel/survival, generally for placement and availability. The Planar handbook has some minor magic items for that purpose, but some of them are far more expensive than most low-mid level characters have. Any hints or suggestions as to deal with those?

The plane is minor chaos-dominant and minor positive-dominant, and I want to prepare for anything (I've had undead party members before, and the occasional lawful character). That, and hints on how to fight/circumvent fire giants in tunnels so I don't have to improv too much.

[tacticslion]

Planning out a long-term high-powered campaign based VERY loosely around Baldr's gate (with a hint of semi-industrial revolution-era stuff, not steam-punk) in which all (apparently three, at present) player characters are Baalspawn (actually something else, but similar theme).

While I've been toying around with the idea of making them:
*tieflings
*fiendish
*half-fiends
*graced from the outside (evil) {it's in the 3.5 DMG2}
*infernal/abyssal bloodline {in Unearthed Arcana, or as Sorcerers in Pathfinder}
, but ultimately these all seem heavy-handed and stupendously obvious. Further, it's supposed to be at least partially intrigue-laden with high character interaction and any of the above will automatically ostricize all the characters - not necessarily a bad thing, but not what I'm going for, at least not right off the bat.

So, my "fix it" idea, is to have them set up their characters, then have a power creep with the bloodline, tiefling, graced from the outside, fiendish, and eventually half-fiendish templates effectively being gained by the characters (possibly even a derivative of the shade template).

This is admittedly a very high powered setting. I'm aware of all the difficulties it represents. What I'm really asking for - outside of power-creep, and evil propensities - is:

*how would you recommend I spread the power-growth rates?
... and...
*what other potential pit-falls do you see, other than "that's easy" power-creep and "I'm an evil ex-paladin now" player attitude?

Thanks in advance!

[Ryong]

I'm making a 4th ed campaign based on Seiken Densetsu 3 - yes, because I have an one track mind. 3 sessions in and it's been going pretty well so far. Also: Goblins that work like Warhammer 40k orks = kickass.