My Little Pony: Friendship is Mafia [Archive] - Page 2

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 11:45 AM

Erm, I'm not sure what I just witnessed there...

Either this is a really cunning ploy or... I dunno.

It is the most cunning of ploys.
There's really only one flaw involved and that's that you all might consider the possibility that both I and sif are some sort of malignant roles that have banded together to protect one another through this convoluted roleclaim scheme. But this isn't really the sort of attention a mafiate wants to draw to him/herself I feel. Either I or Sif can be rolechecked by an investigation and it would out both of us as involved in the mafia (The same might be true of cult, but only if there was for some reason no night 0 mafia kill but a cult recruitment)

Thus, Sifright is at no more risk than he was before and I am at far less because there's less chance of me being lynched and NO chance of a night death.
Of course, the Mafia might think I'm bluffing and call it and try to kill me anyway, but I don't think they're that stupid.

Aldurin

09-27-2011, 11:49 AM

Hawk, half the forum still calls me earl. That's why you thought I was an inactive.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 12:12 PM

Sifright

09-27-2011, 12:14 PM

To further explain basically if my self and karesh choose to lynch a person and every one bandwagoned with us we are much less likely to hit a townie than if randomly vote as there are more mafia to work as a cohesive group.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 12:25 PM

given that our status as town will be confirmed come day 2 we need to act in concert, for voting myself and karesh are much less likely to vote for a townie to be lynched even with out knowing others roles for one simple reason. when the mafia vote for a lynch it will ALWAYS be a townie they choose.

Also I'm sticking my vote for Nikose his reasoning for wanting a lynch on my self or gem was very tenuous.
Not so much really. Once we're through today the possibility that you get absorbed by the cult exists. Admittedly it would be a weird choice for them since they're usually seeking power roles, not vanilla townies.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 12:33 PM

Oh, of course there's also the possibility that given the way we did this little reveal that you're not telling the truth in the first place.
Since I walked you through telling us what name you were given and then revealed myself for confirmation, you might just be a mafioso that picked a name out of a hat. I doubt you'd have ever expected the role to immediately be claimed as it has, all you'd need is a way to set yourself up as an unconfirmed town role. The thing you're trying to claim is weak enough that a investigator might not consider it important enough to check out immediately.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 12:40 PM

Actually I'd realized what I just posted as I thought this little plot through but now that I think further from the town perspective there's also another option: you and I are both lying and entirely independently attempting to fool the other two parties involved.
Just to state it out: I might be a Serial Killer while you're a mafioso, and both of us just happen to get involved in the same lie, gambling that the other is actually a townie and an investigation will go through the other.

I'd thought the best way to secure my role would be to enact the investigation of Sif and go from there at a point when the Investigator felt comfortable spreading the info around. But with that in mind I guess there's really no way to confirm it short of sacrificing two whole investigations and possibly the investigator himself.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 01:11 PM

I'm the town vanilla doctor, I don't have any powers basically I'm supposed to be senile according to my role and the only person i could remember was karesh as fluttershy

Edit persumably the only townies with powers will be the ones are elements of harmony.

...
...There is something very, very suspicious about all of this.
Really, liking Sifright less and less at the moment.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 01:14 PM

...
...There is something very, very suspicious about all of this.
Really, liking Sifright less and less at the moment.

But liking me more and more, right?

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 01:16 PM

But liking me more and more, right?

I really have no opinion of you at the moment.
I have several objections against Sifright.
Really the only thing that confuses me is why Sifright would threaten to quit and/or be Modkilled when caught 'bending the rules' and claim he was Town if doing so was a lie. He'd have to have real confidence that Fenris wasn't going to toss him and immediately completely invalidate his own supposed 'moment of truth.'

But there's so much not adding up with Sifright right now. So very much.

Geminex

09-27-2011, 01:23 PM

Could you elaborate? Cause it seems to make sense. Sif reveals his role on the spur of the moment, and then reveals Karesh's.

And I think they're both truthful.

Sif and Karesh are both claiming that Karesh is fluttershy. A townie. I'm pretty sure Karesh is actually fluttershy, since if he wasn't the real fluttershy could call him out on it. So question is only how Sif knew about Karesh's role. And, I dunno. If he was scummy, why would he reveal something that takes suspicion away from Karesh?

Edit:

Hey, Sifright. The flavor text is usually pretty distinctive. Could you post yours?

Sifright

09-27-2011, 01:24 PM

Well I presumed I was going to be mod killed, and I was going to quit because one of the reasons i don't normally partake in mafia games is because how easy it for things to be taken to far from insinuations in the game to be taken personally.

Out of interest what other things aren't adding up prehaps I can help explain what they are, if you are genuinely town discussing things with me so that I can try and explain my position should logically be exactly what you want as lynching a townie even when it's a vanilla role now they my information is out there is pretty harmful.

Full Role name is "Doctor Whooves, The Doctor, town-aligned" Also i've been alive 900 years apparently.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 01:25 PM

are we allowed to post flavor text? Will ask fenris for a response before i do that

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 01:26 PM

Elaborate, maybe? Cause it seems to make sense. Guy reveals his role on the spur of the moment, and then reveals Karesh's.

And I think they're right.

Sif and Karesh are both claiming that Karesh is fluttershy. A townie. I'm pretty sure Karesh is actually fluttershy, since if he wasn't the real fluttershy could call him out on it. So question is only how Sif knew about Karesh's role. And, I dunno. If he was scummy, why would he reveal something that takes suspicion away from Karesh?

Nonoonono.

No.
Sif knew that there was a Fluttershy. That's a basic assumption you could make just from the name of the game. The mane six were always incredibly likely to be involved.

Sif stated outright that he knew who Fluttershy is, and I declared myself Fluttershy and then he confirmed it.
It's very important to keep in mind that Sif didn't declare me Fluttershy directly until I had claimed the role. It's perfectly understandable behavior from his perspective so it's not a suspicious move, but it's also not a move that clears him or me from suspicion.

Geminex

09-27-2011, 01:30 PM

Oh, right. Yeah, thanks for that. So, okay. Sif still suspicious. He could be scum and trying to a) lure fluttershy out of hiding (maybe thinking that fluttershy is the doctor?) and b) protect himself from lynching. Hmm.

Does anyone know if Sif is a brony?

Edit: To elaborate on that, Dr. Whooves is more of an inside joke than anything else, a non-brony wouldn't know about him unless that was actually his role.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 01:32 PM

At that I feel the only thing that's slightly off is that Sif is saying he knew ONLY the fluff character name and not the role. This allowed him to make the claim without there being anyway for me as the character he was claiming to make any assertions. If he had said "I Know who fluttershy is and Fluttershy is the Doctor" then suddenly I can pop in and go "HOLD YER HORSES"

Again it's not really all that suspicious. A role like that can easily exist, and from that perspective of "I know who Fluttershy is but not what he can do" it's plain to see why Sif would be hesitant to actually call it out until I revealed.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 01:47 PM

Strangely enough no one really has enunciated any of my personal objections to Sifright's behavior. Though I almost hope someone other than Karesh actually is Fluttershy, claims Fluttershy, and we can kill Sifright here and now (possibly Karesh as well, though I'd think it's equally possible, and in fact would be strategically smart, if Karesh as a non-Fluttershy Townie claimed Fluttershy just to catch Sifright in the lie.)

But really while Karesh and Sifright's quarrel has been intriguing, there's a lot more basic and fundamental things that Sifright has said and done that sound off alarm bells for me.

EDIT: One of which has now been eliminated. I initially thought Sifright was claiming to be a 'vanilla doctor,' as in both vanilla and the doctor in a Mafia game, you know, the power role that prevents people from dying. Should've enunciated your role a bit more from the get-go.
...Still have issues with Sifright though.

Gregness

09-27-2011, 01:50 PM

Also, Karesh there is one minor detriment to you revealing yourself. Since Fluttershy can't be converted, there was always the possibility of the Cult wasting a conversion attempt on you, but there's little hope of that now.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 01:51 PM

Strangely enough no one really has enunciated any of my personal objections to Sifright's behavior. Though I almost hope someone other than Karesh actually is Fluttershy, claims Fluttershy, and we can kill Sifright here and now (possibly Karesh as well, though I'd think it's equally possible, and in fact would be strategically smart, if Karesh as a non-Fluttershy Townie claimed Fluttershy just to catch Sifright in the lie.)

But really while Karesh and Sifright's quarrel has been intriguing, there's a lot more basic and fundamental things that Sifright has said and done that sound off alarm bells for me.

I wouldn't really call it a quarrel as Sif and me don't have a disagreement. I personally hold the opinion he's being inexperienced in handling his role, but is honestly presenting what he's been given.

I'm only offering contention when people suggest that there's no way to suspect him, or even me for that matter. That sort of lowered guard combined with a partially inactive town is what allowed Fenris and his crew to so easily push the town into oblivion last game.

Geminex

09-27-2011, 01:53 PM

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 01:56 PM

Yeah, me too.
I looked at the process again, and it seems a lot like cold reading. Sif giving information, waiting for Karesh's response and then 'confirming' that response. Very fishy.

Plus, ti seems weird that Sif would know the character but not the role. Is that kind of thing normal in mafia?

It should also be reiterated at this juncture that assuming the Mafia have Safe Roles, a halfway decent host is going to almost inevitably do the same thing I did in Homestuck, which is ensure that at least one or more of the most popular Elements of Harmony characters are available options for Scum to claim, and then attempt to avoid all suspicion with. (I did this with Rose and Dave and Vriska in Homestuck Mafia.)

Actually I know for a fact Fenris would do that, as we had a conversation long before even my Homestuck Mafia game on that very subject (not specific to this game, but regarding his preferences as host.) META LOGIC FOR THE WIN.

Gregness

09-27-2011, 02:02 PM

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 02:04 PM

Sorry Snake, but can you say that again, but slower for the n00bs (i.e. me).

Basically, what do you mean by Safe Roles? My intuition would be something along the lines of "a role that is possible, but not actually assigned to anyone so that it's possible for someone to claim it without dispute." Do I have that about right?

I think in this context he means an extra role a mafiate or other scum might have.

In this example lets just say for whatever reason you're a mafiate. But you also might have a secondary role or ability. To protect someone, investigate a role, stuff like that.

Though I think usually such abilities take on the form of single use powers.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:05 PM

I think I explained my actions pretty throughly about why i went through that process. waiting on fenny to pm saying i can or can't use the flavor text from before the game started.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 02:07 PM

Partially irrelevant anyway as I have recalled that Fenris was not in fact the confidant who told me not to include all the Elements of Harmony as Town roles back when I was initially planning to host an MLP game.
He and Sir Chris have a fair deal in common, my mistake.

Anyway Safe-Listing is the fairly common practice in which Scum have a list of pro-Townie sounding characters they can claim so they don't have to be honest and claim the anti-Townie sounding character they are.
For example, say you're Discord (unlikely as Fenris didn't even know who Discord was when he began planning for this, I'd imagine, but still.) If you're asked to claim your role before you're voted off you can't say "I'm Discord" without revealing you're scum, because everyone with access to Friendship is Magic Wiki will immediately know you're a bad guy who's threatenin' Ponyville.

But you can't claim another significant benevolent character from MLP: FiM either without risking being counterclaimed by someone playing who actually has that role. Then you're dead.
So sometimes Scum is given a list of inoffensive names they can claim and make up Town roles with.

Mind you, it's very unlikely that Karesh would initiate such a gambit D1 even if Scumteam was told they could claim Fluttershy, but I'm just saying, claiming an Element of Harmony is not akin to a complete and utter shield from all incrimination. Scum might be able to claim the Element characters too.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:09 PM

Yea I mean I wasn't going to reveal a power role so that said person could end up being nuked night 1.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 02:12 PM

Yea I mean I wasn't going to reveal a power role so that said person could end up being nuked night 1.

I don't quite comprehend the narrative correlation of Dr. Whooves knowing Fluttershy and only Fluttershy's person / role, though.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:13 PM

I don't either the flavor text tells me i'm 900 years old and can only remember that karesh is fluttershy

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 02:17 PM

I don't either the flavor text tells me i'm 900 years old and can only remember that karesh is fluttershy

It'd take some degree of imagination to come up with this type of a background story for Dr. Whooves.
Either Sifright's telling the truth, or he's on a scumteam that includes a Brony who writes rather weird romantic Dr. Whooves / Fluttershy fanfiction and who's basically telling Sifright what to say.

...Hey, do any of you guys write weird romantic Dr. Whooves / Fluttershy fanfiction? ;)

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:19 PM

Karesh, as to your earlier theory that potentially both of us are lying. the investigator only need investigate me. IF i'm shown to be telling the truth then logically you are as well if you presume i'm not being a complete idiot and giving credence to a false claim for fluttershy

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-27-2011, 02:19 PM

It'd take some degree of imagination to come up with this type of a background story for Dr. Whooves.
Either Sifright's telling the truth, or he's on a scumteam that includes a Brony who writes rather weird romantic Dr. Whooves / Fluttershy fanfiction and who's basically telling Sifright what to say.

...Hey, do any of you guys write weird romantic Dr. Whooves / Fluttershy fanfiction? ;)

I could see it as a randomly selected YOU KNOW THIS GUY thing. But why use whooves specifically I don't know.
Granny Smith would be a better choice for a 'forgetful' character.

Nikose Tyris

09-27-2011, 02:28 PM

Dr. Whooves is a reference to Dr. Who. Since there is no established personality for "Whooves" beyond 2 lines in the show, Fenris probably picked the established Dr. Who personality. It's probably less a 'forgetful' thing, and more "Fluttershy is Whooves Companion".

...Eh. Call this a half defense of Sifright. Personally I'd picture Twilight Sparkle being the Doctor's companion.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:29 PM

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:31 PM

Otherwise the mafia have an obvious power role to kill as soon as possible.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 02:36 PM

Also there is a way to keep the investigator safe presumably he will check me to see if i'm town thus proving Kareshs claim. IF he then doesn't say anything at all the next day presumably I am town, this way I get proven and the investigator is safe, that way if i'm lieing he can reveal me by telling every one giving an obvious lynch kill the next day.

And by revealing you're scum he then reveals himself and gets killed? Yeah, bad plan. But then if you are town then the scum only has to claim you're scum and make everyone believe the scum is the inspector. Still bad plan.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:38 PM

I die and then the mafia player gets lynched the very next day when i'm shown to be town.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 02:39 PM

Like i'm expendable and there are more townies than mafia if I have to die to straight off expose a mafia player thats pretty much awesome as i've done what my role was meant to do

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 03:08 PM

Also there is a way to keep the investigator safe presumably he will check me to see if i'm town thus proving Kareshs claim. IF he then doesn't say anything at all the next day presumably I am town, this way I get proven and the investigator is safe, that way if i'm lieing he can reveal me by telling every one giving an obvious lynch kill the next day.
Like i'm expendable and there are more townies than mafia if I have to die to straight off expose a mafia player thats pretty much awesome as i've done what my role was meant to do
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/nod3.gif

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 03:11 PM

What mafia player? How're you exposing any mafia player here? I mean I'm trying to follow your logic here but it's sounding flimsier with each post you make, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Oh, and some stuff I missed earlier;

Also, Karesh there is one minor detriment to you revealing yourself. Since Fluttershy can't be converted, there was always the possibility of the Cult wasting a conversion attempt on you, but there's little hope of that now.

Fluttershy can't be converted? Since when? Are you assuming that because it might be a power role, because I think somebody said that cult are supposed to try and convert power roles?

...Hey, do any of you guys write weird romantic Dr. Whooves / Fluttershy fanfiction? ;)

I can safely say I have never written fanfiction of any kind:)

You know who we've all seriously overlooked so far? Ryanderman. That guy posted once and then never again. So Ryanderman, if you're still lurking, why are you lurking? Get in here and make some noise damnit!

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:13 PM

I really have no opinion of you at the moment.
I have several objections against Sifright.
Really the only thing that confuses me is why Sifright would threaten to quit and/or be Modkilled when caught 'bending the rules' and claim he was Town if doing so was a lie. He'd have to have real confidence that Fenris wasn't going to toss him and immediately completely invalidate his own supposed 'moment of truth.'

But there's so much not adding up with Sifright right now. So very much.

See, for me what makes me most suspicious is this:

Okay the dude I know is almost certainly a power role I don't know what their power is but i do know their flavor role and it lines up fluff wise with those who have powers, I can't in good faith reveal the person because if their power is doctor/bodyguard role they can't protect them selves and being the only known innocent basically makes them the obvious night 1 kill for the mafia.

If Sifright was trying to play to the town's interests, he'd have said, "I know X is a townie.", rather than going, "The townie I know has a power role. I dunno what it is. Totally a power role though. So, I can't tell you. I'll kill a power role."

Sif, what you're saying right now isn't following through with logic. In order for an investigator to reveal you as true or false, the investigator needs to reveal themselves, and then bam, we lose a huge asset. And scum gets you killed, probably gets Karesh lynched for being in cahoots with you, but Karesh is probably a townie.

Breakin' it down:
-The way you revealed your information did it in a way that was guaranteed to hurt the town. We lose secrecy of a power role, instead of just knowing that a power role is a townie.
-If you're investigated, the investigator has to reveal himself to call your bluff, hurting the town again.
-If you're lying, and the investigator lets himself die to call your bluff, the town now turns on Karesh. It's entirely possible that you said "YEP!" to Karesh to implicate him, and we lose our unlynchable townie.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:16 PM

Furthermore, reading your plan again Sif, it's completely full of holes, and benefits scum more than I originally thought.

You're saying, "Hey, Investigator. Either I get away with being scum, or you die tomorrow. Silence means I live, coming forward and saying something means I die."

If you really thought of yourself as expendable, you'd say that silence means you die, coming forward means you live. That way you're not holding the investigator hostage for your life.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:17 PM

Like, what you've done right now has tied your life to the investigator's. Whatever happens to you, happens to him, and that benefits scum, and isn't how an "expendable townie" would think. If you wanted to be expendable, you'd set it up so that the investigator survives when you die.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 03:19 PM

Sifs plan is what I'm going to call a Reverse Xanatos Gambit. Rather than picking every path that leads to a victory, he's picked every path leading to defeat.

Of course it makes perfect sense if he's scum, if only he had worded it in any way that made it sound plausible as pro town.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:20 PM

Okay logic chain + causal relation ship.

I've claimed I am town and that Karesh is Fluttershy.
If a town investigator follows my proposed plan scans me during the night and finds I am town his silence is all the proof we need to accept I am town, where as if i am not he could tell every one I am mafia and then I get lynched that day.

This leads to several consquences when he proved to have lied about my status as townie he will then be lynched for outing himself as either a cultist or mafia. the other consquence of me being lynched will be to prove that karesh is indeed fluttershy because when I die every one will be told I was town. Logically a townie wont lie to get another townie killed thus if a mafia claims investigator role and lies to get me killed it's proof they are scum. Game theory presumes people will act in their own best interest.

hopefuly that isn't hard to follow.

Also HOS: Hawk That really shouldn't be that hard to understand. Although i've rambled over many small posts so i guess minor HOS

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:22 PM

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:24 PM

my proposed plan doesn't allow the mafia to find out who the investigator is ASSUMING i am town. Which means if i am a townie it's the best way for me to operate.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:26 PM

Unvote: Nikose

Vote: Hawk

Basically you are misrepresenting all my ideas to try show them as if they would be a terrible thing for town to do despite the fact that if i'm town it's at the very least a safe way to operate and if i was scum it would be a stupid thing to do because it would get me killed the very next day. do bare mind a guard roll could keep the investigator dude alive the night he 'reveals' me to be mafia if i was actually mafia.

Gregness

09-27-2011, 03:28 PM

...
Fluttershy can't be converted? Since when? Are you assuming that because it might be a power role, because I think somebody said that cult are supposed to try and convert power roles?

...

daFLAM!

...
Likewise, with knowledge of my status I can be verified as town. And I'm comfortable in declaring openly that I am pretty much the best townie you ever did see. The cult won't be able to turn me, and that means when you need a true blue friend in the dark, you can count on Flutter-goddamn-shy.

At least, if we take his word for it anyway.

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 03:29 PM

Furthermore, reading your plan again Sif, it's completely full of holes, and benefits scum more than I originally thought.

You're saying, "Hey, Investigator. Either I get away with being scum, or you die tomorrow. Silence means I live, coming forward and saying something means I die."
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightno.gif

do bare mind a guard roll could keep the investigator dude alive the night he 'reveals' me to be mafia if i was actually mafia.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightclap.gif

Unvote: Nikose
Vote: Hawk
HOS: rpgdemon

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:29 PM

This totally isn't true it's only tied his life to mine if he finds out i'm lieing.

Yeah, which is the important thing. We want to know if you're lying. That is the whole test. We don't believe you. You have set up the test so that if you're lying, you take out a key role with you. Which is what a scum would do, because they don't want to be caught.

You set it up so that a liar wins.

my proposed plan doesn't allow the mafia to find out who the investigator is ASSUMING i am town. Which means if i am a townie it's the best way for me to operate.

Which means it's the worst way for you to operate for a townie who cares about the town. If you want the town to win, you don't hold a power role hostage, period.

Gregness

09-27-2011, 03:30 PM

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:32 PM

Oron

09-27-2011, 03:32 PM

This totally isn't true it's only tied his life to mine if he finds out i'm lieing.

...In which case, it works out well for you. If you are scum, he states that you're scum. We lynch you. He's then revealed. Even if we have a bodyguard to protect him that night, his days will be quite numbered. I doubt scum would leave a power role like that alone for long.

And now you're reacting to Hawk with a vote. Interesting.

If you were scum, I doubt you'd be throwing yourself out there like you are now if you had a power role. So really, in the event that are you are scum:

Scum loses a regular member.

Town potentially loses the investigator.

-- Man, super ninja'd. I'm one slow poster on my phone.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:33 PM

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:36 PM

Thats ridiculous I've set it up in a way which allows for silence to provide information and keep his role safe. As I know for a fact i'm townie what it means is that for me to be lynched the next day a mafia player HAS to lie to try and get me killed which means BAM instant mafia player lynched the day after.

Of the two choices, I'd rather have our investigator be given the option to reveal himself and save you if you're telling the truth, than you say that he has to reveal himself to kill you.

Why are you so against the idea that if you're scum, you would be proven scum and the investigator wouldn't be revealed?

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:37 PM

I don't know how many days mafia games usually last, but if there are only 4-5 mafia players and they last no more than 6-7 days usually surely playing long term doesn't make any sense? the earlier we kill off a mafia the longer the game will last though I suppose.

Oron

09-27-2011, 03:38 PM

IHMN: That means that for the rest of the game, the guard will have to be tied up protecting the investigator? What if the guard gets killed or turned in the first turn?

It's not a logical plan at all. Yes, it works for the very short term, with luck, but in the long term it doesn't work.

Plus, it ties up the bodyguard. If something's discovered during one of the days and it seems apparent that another player will be targeted, the bodyguard's going to have to choose between the investigator and that other player. That doesn't sound particularly good.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 03:38 PM

There's a lot of reasons to dislike Sifright's plan that IHMN has not accounted for. (

The 'doctor' or 'protective' role could be lynched D1.
The 'investigator' could be lynched D1.
The 'doctor' or 'protective' role could die N1.
The 'investigator' could die N1.
The 'doctor' or protective' role could be lynched D2.
Mafia could simply target Sifright to be killed N1, effectively guaranteeing that Town wastes an investigation, all the while encouraging us to investigate Sifright, knowing that Sifright would be killed.
Mafia could have a 'watcher' role (they do exist), either one-time or permanently. Mafia 'watches' Sifright and can view anyone who visits him. Presto! The Mafia knows who the Investigator is.
Either the Doctor or the Investigator could be kidnapped or killed in a manner that leaves no trace (Mafia has this role sometimes, too! They did in my game!) Then Scum can claim the Investigator (if he's kidnapped.) Or Scum can pretend the Doctor's still out there, knowing that he isn't and can't save anyone.
Sifright could be a 'Godfather,' in which case as Scum he'd scan innocent even if he is not innocent. Every 'investigator' has limits to his power(s). Actually, it'd be to Sifright's advantage as scum Godfather to make the investigator waste a scan 'confirming' him.
Sifright could be SK or Cult; in some games, SKs or Cult members scan innocent by Cops.

...Really there are so many ways this could backfire.
General Rule: As investigator you NEVER LET YOURSELF BE TOLD WHO TO INVESTIGATE. You trust no one, do your own research, and don't reveal your role and your findings until you have to.

HOS: IHMN for being stupid.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:38 PM

It's entirely possible that you're making an assumption that you shouldn't in making your plans: We can't trust you to be town.

Even though you know that you're town, if you are town, we don't, and you're acting very suspect.

Nikose Tyris

09-27-2011, 03:39 PM

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:40 PM

So explain to me why you want the investigator to reveal himself if i'm not mafia. how does that make any bloody sense? You want him to show himself and get himself killed to prove I am not mafia rather than getting him self killed to take down a mafia. How is this a thing that makes sense.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 03:42 PM

hey Snake

Wanna compile a numbered list of people you find suspicious? like incredibly suspicious? Cause I think your number is at 5 now but I'm having network issues and can't backread the thread all that easily

Suspicions have changed throughout the 'Day;' some people I originally found suspicious aren't people I find quite as suspicious any more. But yeah, 5 actually sounds like an entirely reasonable number of D1 suspects, given the existence of both a Mafia team and a Cult.

I don't think I'm being overly paranoid, just appropriately cautious.
The list will have to wait though as I'm heading out to Energy Law class.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:44 PM

I want him to not be forced to die, and we'll still be able to take down a mafia, actually.

You're flip flopping between thinking of yourself as expendable, and not. Choose one or the other. If you really think you're expendable now, and the power roles are more important to protect, then play that way. If you don't, then play that way, but I don't know how killing our power roles will help a town victory.

If you're town, you still win if you're dead when the town wins. (I think? I assume so, at least.)

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:47 PM

yes but I am playing that way the investigator doesn't reveal himself if i'm NOT mafia. as I KNOW i'm NOT this makes PERFECT sense for me to do so. THUS what could get me killed would be a fake investigator who would die the day after i am lynched as I will be shown to be town when i am killed.

I am not flip flopping about how expendable I am but Killing me to prove kareshs claim doesn't make much sense and helps the scum. This is a way to prove my claim that doesn't hurt the town team and secures kareshs claim as well.

Think about it like this, if i'm scum there is a reasonable chance karesh is as well as that would be a reasonable gambit unless you are presuming I was 'cold reading'

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:48 PM

Not to mention the investigator can always choose to reveal later on that I am mafia and by scanning me now and knowing the answer if i am mafia he has time to compile a list for a grand reveal.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:49 PM

Also RPgdemon how do you prove me scum without use of the investigator with out having me killed?

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 03:49 PM

I'm not digging this whole 'Sifright has to die'

I don't like his claim, but his claim actually puts Scum in an awkward situation if Sifright and Karesh are both Town and Sifright isn't lying. I'd tell you why, but I don't want to actually aid Scum by offering the explanation.

And in the end, it's hard to imagine Sifright (as Scum) claiming such a ridiculous role in Dr. Whooves with ridiculous flavor unless it's true. Scum usually does not need to rely on such wacky gambits to get a Townie lynched D1. What I'm actually saying is that what do not want to do is 'order' the Investigator to Investigate anyone. That is a gift of knowledge to Scum that Scum can very easily exploit in many, many ways.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 03:52 PM

Sif, I am not misrepresenting you ideas at all. I may be misinterpreting them and the reason for that is that you make multiple posts in a row and ramble a whole lot with very little coherency. And as Oron and rpg have pointed out, your idea is awfully close to exposing the inspector outright and getting them lynched. You may know that you're town, we don't. If the inspector finds out you're not, then he has to reveal himself to show that you're scum, which then gets him killed and/or ties up the bodyguard/doctor every night protecting him, which can easily be undone by the scum simply killing of the protection.

And as Snake pointed out, there are even more ways this can go wrong than you've taken into account. All you've done here is make yourself look more suspicious really.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:52 PM

Searching his posts, it seems Snake suspects (Or at least mentioned by name):

Bob the Merc
IHateMakingNames
Smarty
Nik
RPGDemon
Sifright

I encourage someone else to check (Especially Snake), but that's what I saw at least.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 03:53 PM

The investigator is an important role which is why it's important information be available hence my gambit to find a way to transmit that information by it's very lack.

But i understand your point.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 03:55 PM

Anyhow, I have to vanish in order to do work. But those are my thoughts.

Bard The 5th LW

09-27-2011, 04:01 PM

I'm sorta really busy today, so I can't read all the backlog right now. Gotta get going and maybe read it later tonight.

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 04:02 PM

Not to mention the investigator can always choose to reveal later on that I am mafia and by scanning me now and knowing the answer if i am mafia he has time to compile a list for a grand reveal.
I don't like his claim, but his claim actually puts Scum in an awkward situation if Sifright and Karesh are both Town and Sifright isn't lying. I'd tell you why, but I don't want to actually aid Scum by offering the explanation.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/djpony_display.gif

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 04:08 PM

Way to conveniently ignore all those other comments I made about how terrible your and Sifright's "Investigate Sifright N1" plan is, IHMN.

Also, the pony GIFs. I want them to stop. I swear I'm so close to trying to start a bandwagon against IHMN due to the flippant gifs alone. The "Investigate Sifright" support only drives me further to the conclusion that IHMN can die today and he will not be missed.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 04:10 PM

Yea I wasn't aware that there could even be mafia roles like watcher or anything. Apart from homestuck the only mafia game i've played had Mafia and townies no super roles or anything and that was in a warcraft 3 modded map. So yea... :|

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 04:26 PM

IHMN, are you going to keep just posting pictures and gifs?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/big-mac-yep.gif
Also, the pony GIFs. I want them to stop.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/spike2.gif

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 04:43 PM

Know what?

Vote: IHateMakingNames

He's been entirely counter-productive the entire time, and wait what if he's jester?

Even so, he's decidedly counterproductive, and has not helped the town any. If you guys think that he's likely jester, we could wait a turn on him as well, but for now I'm going to leave my vote like this.

Professor Smarmiarty

09-27-2011, 04:49 PM

Sif''s plan is hilariously stupid.
But
Unvote: Faflcopter
Vote: IHMN
Cause fuck, he's not contributing, he's completely counterproductive, these gifs annoy the shit out of me and foddamn its annoying.
Town discussions will be a much nicer place without stupid unhelpful gifs littering up the place.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 04:52 PM

I highly doubt there'd be a Jester in the same game as a Cult and Scum.
You see, we Townies have only one weapon in our collective arsenal to win: The Lynch. And the Jester is essentially an anti-town role insofar as his entire goal is to cost Town a Lynch that otherwise would go against Scum or Cult.

I'd be disappointed if we had a Jester, really. Was kind of surprised and offended when people suggested I was the jester too. I ain't no jester!

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 04:55 PM

Yeah I mean I was going to ask IHMN why he's siding with sif and voting for me, but I imagine all I'll get for an answer is a series of gifs, so

Unvote: rpgdemon

Vote: IHateMakingNames

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 05:01 PM

He's been entirely counter-productive the entire time, and wait what if he's jester?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/pinkieno-1.gif
Yeah I mean I was going to ask IHMN why he's siding with sif and voting for me, but I imagine all I'll get for an answer is a series of gifs, so

Unvote: rpgdemon

Vote: IHateMakingNames
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/eeh.gif

Nikose Tyris

09-27-2011, 05:07 PM

I think something we can all get behind is

UNVOTE: Whoever I was voting for

VOTE: IHMN

Oron

09-27-2011, 05:11 PM

About the Jester deal:

The Factions

There is the town. The town wins when all threats to the town are eliminated.
There is a mafia. The mafia wins when the mafia comprises half of the remaining members.
There is a cult. The cult wins when that cult comprises all of the remaining members.
Any self-aligned players win when they are the last pony standing.

Wouldn't a Jester be self-aligned? I'm not so sure we need to worry about IHMN having a Jester role.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:12 PM

You know, I briefly debated the possibility that IHMN was assigned a role as a character who could only speak in MLP: FiM GIF images each Day, as Fenris is actually an abnormally huge fan of those damn GIF images.

...But then I realized that IHMN would still have the ability to decide simply to not post responses at all, and hell, if given that role he'd be better off if he was inactive.

So yeah,
UNVOTE
VOTE: IHateMakingNames

Aldurin

09-27-2011, 05:13 PM

Let's end the day early with a majority vote.

Unvote: Snake

Vote: IHMN

Sifright

09-27-2011, 05:15 PM

How about no, ending the day early is a terrible idea especially when a random out of no where bandwagon forms the fact that five people in quick succession have all decided to leap on mesden as well is suspicous as hell despite mesdens ridiculous usage of gifs.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:16 PM

IHMN is Mesden?

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 05:16 PM

You know, I briefly debated the possibility that IHMN was assigned a role as a character who could only speak in MLP: FiM GIF images each Day, as Fenris is actually an abnormally huge fan of those damn GIF images.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightclap-1.gif

...But then I realized that IHMN would still have the ability to decide simply to not post responses at all, and hell, if given that role he'd be better off if he was inactive.

So yeah,
UNVOTE
VOTE: IHateMakingNames
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightmad.gif

Sifright

09-27-2011, 05:16 PM

I believe so.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:18 PM

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 05:18 PM

IHMN is Mesden?
I believe so.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/572328.gif

Sifright

09-27-2011, 05:19 PM

is that face palming or pointing at your self? |:

Sifright

09-27-2011, 05:22 PM

so it turns out i'm full of shit
that isn't mesden. God damn it people changing their names keeps throwing me off :|

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 05:22 PM

...Goddammit, IHMN was seriously assigned a role in which IHMN can only participate with GIF images?
...It might actually be a courtesy to kill the poor pony off now. =/

Hey IHMN, why don't you character claim then since you can't do much else with only GIFs. Post a GIF in response to this message with your character. If no one counters, we'll at least know who you are. (More importantly, if someone counters, we can kill you.)
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/derpy.gif

is that face palming or pointing at your self? |:
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/facehoof.png

Professor Smarmiarty

09-27-2011, 05:24 PM

Man this is worse than the role where you had to talk in rhyme or the one where you couldn't name any of the other players.
Fuck.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 05:24 PM

I what. Has that kind of assigned role ever been done in mafia games before because that sounds hilarious dumb i mean it's an instant give and lynch/murder.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:25 PM

...Yup, thought so.

I guess this means he can only post pictures (he did post one non-GIF image) of ponies. But since you apparently aren't limited to posting canon pictures from episodes you should totally like take an image of a pony, edit it to include pertinent Mafia information, and then post that image.

Sadly, I'm really inclined to believe that A: If scum, IHMN would not make this up and paint a target on his back and B: Fenris is exactly the kind of host to pull this. So.

UNVOTE: IHMN

Professor Smarmiarty

09-27-2011, 05:28 PM

Unvote: IHMN
Vote:Falfcopter
But thisis pretty much entirely predicated on you not posting/posting in very limited amounts. If IHMN starts posting I'm going to campaign for lynch pretty much solely on annoyance factor.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 05:29 PM

So, what IHMN is some sort of jester then? And lynching him would be bad yes?

Professor Smarmiarty

09-27-2011, 05:31 PM

I'm guessing he's just a crazy townie.

Nikose Tyris

09-27-2011, 05:31 PM

UNVOTE: IHMN

VOTE: SIFRIGHT

Sifright

09-27-2011, 05:32 PM

Top suspicion

HOS: IHMN
HOS: Snake
HOS: SMB

bandwagoning onto him and straight off like that is just.. well I think it was setup.

Unvote: Whoever

Vote: IHMN

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:32 PM

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:34 PM

Top suspicion

HOS: IHMN
HOS: Snake
HOS: SMB

bandwagoning onto him and straight off like that is just.. well I think it was setup.

Unvote: Whoever

Vote: IHMN

So you think the entire Scumteam just outed itself in a needlessly elaborate plan to limit IHMN's participatory activity by 'confirming' him as Town at the expense of his posting habits for the rest of the game?
...When scum doesn't need to do that D1?

...Yeah, you're not playing the game right. =/

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 05:35 PM

Unvote: IHMN

Oron

09-27-2011, 05:36 PM

Really, there's absolutely no reason for IHMN to pull this if scum, so everyone should jump off him. If scum, IHMN has just imposed a serious limitation on his own ability to impact the game. The minute he speaks, we lynch it. But I highly, highly doubt Scum would impose this limit on a Scummate, it only infringes upon Scum's ability to influence Town.

If anything it's most likely Derpy is self-aligned or maybe even SK, but we can deal with that if we still have extra deaths to account for in future days.
Also, if IHMN ever does anything other than posting a pic, lynch him immediately.

Also: aren't you happy I spoke up for you with that thesis, IHMN?

It's hard to tell just yet if IHMN's isn't a crazy townie. Maybe something will happen during the night to give us a clue.

Top suspicion

HOS: IHMN
HOS: Snake
HOS: SMB

bandwagoning onto him and straight off like that is just.. well I think it was setup.

Unvote: Whoever

Vote: IHMN

So... you call them out on bandwagoning and proceed to follow suit?

-- Read that wrong. I missed the HOS: IHMN.

Sifright

09-27-2011, 05:37 PM

Entire team? your assuming there are only three mafia?

Far more likely is that are six mafia or so. Fenris intially wanted 25 players I doubt 1 in 5 would be a decent mafia to town ratio.

I'm working on the assumption of six mafia and one cultist. Yes mafia doing something which looks suspicious can be done on day one because you can use the HO SHIT mafia would never do that on day one argument.

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 05:38 PM

bandwagoning onto him and straight off like that is just.. well I think it was setup.

Unvote: Whoever

Vote: IHMN
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/572328-1.png

If anything it's most likely Derpy is self-aligned or maybe even SK,
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightno.gif

Also: aren't you happy I spoke up for you with that thesis, IHMN?
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/twilightclap-1.gif

Gregness

09-27-2011, 05:39 PM

At this point I remain unconvinced that any of the active posters are scummy enough to risk lynching an active townie. I'd really rather just eliminate an inactive.

Do we have data on who's been on the forums but hasn't posted in the thread yet?

Also, I thought the .GIF's were funny. =8^(

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-27-2011, 05:41 PM

Greg I had a look before. Julford and Fawfulcopter have been inactive for nearly a month, Bob and Moogle have been around the site but not posted. Those are the only major inactives, except for Ryanderman who only made 1 post I think.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:42 PM

Entire team? your assuming there are only three mafia?

Four people jumped off IHMN 'right away' once he claimed.
So you're basically saying that the scumteam did essentially out itself.

Also: No scumteam in the history of scumteams is going to risk three of its limited members on D1 to act on the crazy theory you've suggested.
I can't believe more people aren't accusing you of kooky conspiracy theory indulgence, your paranoia could put mine to shame.

And again, no scumteam is going to put an arbitrary limitation on one of its members when they don't have to. Scumteam could just bandwagon any team member and have that person claim anything and jump off without forcing their scummate to claim they could only post in GIFs / pics.

It's really ridiculously easy to avoid doing that if you're scum on D1. Much more likely that at least half, if not more, of the scumteam is largely inactive or not participating very much today, and certainly not taking any risks on such high-risk, high-reward gambits when odds are D1 ends in Town lynching itself anyway.

And given my own earlier speeches against bandwagoning I think it should be painlessly obvious that I was not in fact bandwagoning IHMN, but instead trying to force IHMN to confirm exactly what I suspected from the moment I made that post.

Gregness

09-27-2011, 05:48 PM

So, there's Bob and Moogle, and I voted for Ramary previously but he hasn't posted in a couple days. He might be a "hide in inactivity" scum, but that's just a hypothesis at this point.

Another reason for some people's inactivity might be that the backlog this thread has is already pretty damn intimidating. I checked the homestuck mafia game and we've already got more posts than that one and we're not even done with day 1 yet. Is there anything we can do to make it not such a damn chore to keep up with this beast?

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 05:59 PM

Another reason for some people's inactivity might be that the backlog this thread has is already pretty damn intimidating. I checked the homestuck mafia game and we've already got more posts than that one and we're not even done with day 1 yet.

This is a side-effect of me being in this game.
(Barely one page of posts before I showed up and insulted everyone.)

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 06:02 PM

Nikose Tyris

09-27-2011, 06:10 PM

Greed lives in EGYPT. It makes game talk hard for him.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 06:11 PM

Greed lives in EGYPT. It makes game talk hard for him.

So, you and greed are scumbuddies, then? :P

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 06:32 PM

Greed lives in EGYPT. It makes game talk hard for him.

http://www.state.gov/cms_images/egypt_map_2007-worldfactbook.jpg != http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Map_of_Australia.png

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 06:35 PM

Did Nik mistake Australia for Egypt or something?
Also, exactly how would someone mistake Australia for Egypt?

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 06:35 PM

Nikose doesn't know where his fellow players live and is stupid and smelly and has a dumb face.

Sounds like a pretty good lynch to me.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 06:40 PM

Ahahahaha
I should totally vote Nik right now just for that
Failing basic geography is a capital offense

Geminex

09-27-2011, 06:46 PM

The backlog has been a hilarious romp.

I'm going to make a list:
ISSUES:
Nikose: Scum or trying to get us to waste a lynch?
Karesh: Fluttershy, or just claiming Fluttershy from some sort of 'safe list'?
Sif: Scum or Dr. Whooves? If this was planned out ahead of time by the mafia, then they could have set up and fleshed out the character, and nothing Sif has said has proved otherwise.
Sif and Gem: Possibly both scum because they didn't get modkilled? (This wouldn't make sense, but I'm listing it in the favor of fairness)
Ryanderman, P-Sleazy, greed: Just distracted, or hiding in the shadows?
IHMN: Good role or best role? Also, town or self-aligned?
Bookie: Am I being oversuspicious or is the dude hiding something? He passed up a good opportunity to dogpile me, but I'm still not sure.
Fawful: Inactive, yes, but why lynch him of all people? Asking you here, Smarty.
Strategy: Lynch for actives or inactives?
Snake: Has he actually been scum all along? Unlikely, but goddamn can you imagine?

Did I forget anything?

Also, am I the only one noticing that Snake has the most appropriate possible avatar? Like, seriously, this is perfect. Especially if he interrogates whoever got the Applejack role.

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 06:47 PM

I'm kind of figuring greed for Mafia now if Nikose turns out to be scum. He's covering greed's ass here.

Greed lives in EGYPT. It makes game talk hard for him.

Ignoring Nikose sucking some of the sum knowledge of geography out of the universe, this is not an actual excuse for anything, given that Mafia takes place in a thread over a period of days. It's not like it's an IM thing and greed can't hop on in time.

So greed being silent, given that I know he gets on here regularly, is kind of suspicious.

Fenris

09-27-2011, 06:51 PM

One of you jerkburgers do a vote count.

Geminex

09-27-2011, 06:53 PM

I think it comes out to:
GEMINEX: -23
IHMN: 2
FENRIS SMELLS: 36

...

okay, gimme a sec

IHateMakingNames

09-27-2011, 07:13 PM

One of you jerkburgers do a vote count.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/spikewrite.gif

Geminex

09-27-2011, 07:19 PM

First off:

UNVOTE: BOOKWORM

1. Bard IHMN
2. P-Sleazy -
3. Nikose Bookworm
4. Karesh rpgdemon
5. Solid Snake - (unvoted)
6. greed-
7. Sifright IHMN
8. Smarty McB Fawfulcopter
9. Moogle-
10. Earl IHMN
11. Mr. Bookworm Nikose
12. Gregness Ramary
13. rpgdemon IHMN
14. Julford Hajime -
15. Hawk - (unvoted)
16. Geminex - (unvoted)
17. Ryanderman-
18. Ramary Snake
19. Bob Dole-
20. Fawfulcopter -
21. IHateMakingNames Hawk
22. Oron -

Okays, here it is.
I basically went through the thread backwards and noted everyone's latest suggestion. When I reached Fenris' previous summary, I went with that.
The name that comes after yours is the one that I think you last voted for. A dash denotes a lack of vote. If I put (unvoted) after the dash, it means they had voted, but unvoted later and weren't inactive.

Uhm. If I got anything wrong, please, people, speak up.

Anyway, to compile...

VOTELIST:

Bookworm: 1
Nikose

IHMN:4
Bard
Sif
Earl
rpgdemon

rpgdemon: 1
Karesh

Fawfulcopter: 1
Smarty

Ramary: 1
Gregness

Nikose: 1
Bookworm

Snake: 1
Ramary

Hawk: 1
IHMN

Geminex

09-27-2011, 07:23 PM

Also, jesus christ. Can I recommend adding some sort of tag to our posts? Like, say, write "vote" into the subject field when you're doing something vote-related. Whoever's compiling the post (that is to say, anyone but fenris) will be able to just search for all of those posts and will have a much easier time.

Or maybe we could all just stop post so much and calm doAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah, no. Maybe just go with the tag?

Also, people, unvote IHMN! We can be pretty damn sure he isn't scum and, come on, those posts are hilarious. Look at how cute they are!
(IHMN, post cute gifs, stat)

Fenris

09-27-2011, 07:29 PM

(that is to say, anyone but fenris)

ONE TIME!

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 07:45 PM

I feel bad for the total amount of effort required for poor IHMN to post adequately appropriate pics and GIFs in response to nearly everything, and just how little those pics and GIFs actually compensate for a lack of the ability to speak

I hope he has kickass night powers to compensate for this.
In other news, not a single person with votes on him constitutes one of my top four or five selections to eliminate today. That is disappointing.
(Watch as a majority of them turn out to be scum.)

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 07:48 PM

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 366
User Name Posts
Sifright 55
Solid Snake 42
rpgdemon 39
Smarty McBarrelpants 35
Karesh 28
Nikose Tyris 27
Geminex 26
Mr.Bookworm 20
Hawk 20
Bard The 5th LW 15
Fenris 15
IHateMakingNames 14
Oron 11
Gregness 9
Aldurin 5
Ramary 2
Ryanderman 1
P-Sleazy 1
greed 1

I'm Most Suspicious Of: Ryanderman, P-Sleazy, greed. I know all three are more talkative than this.

P-Sleazy said in the other thread that he'd be away for awhile, but I think he ought to have gotten back by now/before the whole shebang started. I'll check again.

And just caught up after doing homework.

unvote: IHMN

I'm hoping his power ends up being like, if you talk only in .gifs, you get something awesome, so that if he wants to, he can talk in text.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 07:49 PM

Oh, by the way, IHMN, start stealing Fenris's response pile. He loves that.

Geminex

09-27-2011, 08:03 PM

Snake, remind us again, who are your top five?

Bard The 5th LW

09-27-2011, 08:20 PM

unvote: IHMN because that role is too hilarious to not keep around.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 08:20 PM

I take that back, actually, a few of my top suspects actually do have one vote on them, upon rereading the archives here.

THE LIST:
Bob Dole (active in NPF, not here. Struggles morally with being assigned a 'bad person' role. Could totally see him being activeness due to some conscience thing.)
greed (whether in Egypt or Australia, he's usually more active than he's being here)
Ryanderman (again, usually somewhat more active than this)

Bookie (I hate to agree with Nikose on anything, but this activity feels incredibly different than what I saw from Bookie as Townie postmaster in Homestuck. I'm not sure if he's just learning from his mistakes, or if he feels more confident / assertive because as scum he knows more information about alignment.)

Hawk (Not fond of post #250, wherein he pontificates on power roles, speculates on inactives, and basically makes a complete fluff post that's the perfect kind of post to make if you're scum. "I'm here, just want you to know I'm here, here are my thoughts on potential town power roles, I'll just toss out a couple aimless hypotheticals and then retreat for a bit.")

RPGDemon (This is just such a different iteration of him from Homestuck Mafia; almost like Bookie, you can claim he's smarter, more confident, more self-aware, less paranoid. Maybe it's because he has a game under his belt. But I don't like it.)

Oron (Active early, active when -- perhaps half-jokingly -- accused, inactive now. This is a common scum tactic, be just active enough early on to avoid any attention due to inactivity, then evade and let Town waste time shooting each other while you enjoy the obscurity. To a certain extent this also applies to Ramary, I guess?)

The first three are in the category of "inactive and should be active more," and I'll probably loosen up on them if they start posting here unless they start responding only after pressure's put on them, because that's clearly scummy. Still, they should be more active. I'm actually more willing to give Fawful and Julford passes because they are legitimately not-on-NPF-inactive, which means it's just a statistical crapshoot as to what their roles are as they probably haven't even seen their roles, and in fact the odds favor them being Townies.

But I think Cult Leaders even moreso than Mafia feel the urge to be inactive or barely-active D1, they just want to escape attention long enough to get their Cult started.

I don't think I'd necessarily oppose a Sifright lynch if it came down to that, but I'm not really gung-ho about the prospect either. I'm not sure how comfortable I feel with Karesh either, if only because, as noted by someone else already, his interactions when claiming Fluttershy had an aura of artificiality about them.

(And it was fairly stupid of Karesh IMO to reveal to Sifright that he was Fluttershy before forcing Sifright's hand with the prediction. Forcing Sifright to make the prediction and then confirming the prediction would have basically tied both together neatly...both are scum and lying, or both are town and telling the truth.)

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 08:25 PM

Right now Fenris is laughing hysterically at the fact that I've gone like 0 for 7 there. Like I can just envision him with his stupid trombone, smirking away like some gleeful man-child.

Well fuck you, Fenris, I've made this game awesome! Look at all the activity! By being a player and not the game creator I've already increased participation tenfold! And I'm trying which is more than can be said for like, 70% of Homestuck Mafia participants. Quit giggling like a schoolgirl crushing on Bieber, play your damn trombone and seduce that hot girl in your band for a change.

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 08:28 PM

Bookie (I hate to agree with Nikose on anything, but this activity feels incredibly different than what I saw from Bookie as Townie postmaster in Homestuck. I'm not sure if he's just learning from his mistakes, or if he feels more confident / assertive because as scum he knows more information about alignment.)

In Homestuck mafia, it had been literally over two years since I had played a game of Mafia, and the knowledge of how to do so apparently just drained right out of my brain.

So, yeah, I am probably coming across stronger here.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 08:40 PM

Vote: Bob Dole

Reasoning: As I said, Bob Dole is a quintessential "nice guy" who has many wonderful, loyal qualities but lacks imagination and, therefore, feels incredibly guilty when asked to do something 'sinful,' 'immoral' or 'unethical.' His activity elsewhere and his inactivity here could also be explained through a lack of Mafia experience (I don't know if he's played before), but if so, that increases the likelihood that he has some ridiculous power role that he has no idea how to handle, and there's an altogether decent chance his role is anti-town.

Only strike against Bob being scum is, his scummates should probably be screaming at him to be more active, given he's around. And I do think Bob would feel guilty about letting his team down. The counterargument is that Bob hasn't had legit pressure against him here, which is why I want to pressure him and see if he responds by showing, and what defense he gives for being inactive.

...This also makes me wonder about Nik. If Bob flips Mafia, I'll feel better about Nik being Cult or Town. (This does not apply if Bob flips Cult or SK.) You see, of all the people who, if Bob's scummate, would definitely convince Bob to embrace his dark side, it's Nikose. The dude is like that little Devil that sits on your shoulder and slowly, meticulously, delightfully corrupts you. Scum-Nik would totally wear Scum-Bob down to such a point where Bob began crackling manically as Scum-Nik made him offers of sex and power.

...I'm not sure whether Nik should consider that an insult or a compliment.

Nikose Tyris

09-27-2011, 08:53 PM

...I gotta admit that actually sounds like me.

Oron

09-27-2011, 08:54 PM

Aldurin

09-27-2011, 08:59 PM

Unvote: IHMN

Clearly we have to maintain his tortured existence just for our own amusement.

All I have to say on how to vote is what. the. fuck.

My eyes are being molested by walls of pink and white text, and it hurts.

Bard The 5th LW

09-27-2011, 08:59 PM

Are you implying that Bob would feel bad about being Scum and thus keep himself scarce out of guilt? That's all sorts of ridic, but I really don't know the guy all too well.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 09:16 PM

Are you implying that Bob would feel bad about being Scum and thus keep himself scarce out of guilt?

Yes.

...And, believe it or not, in past Mafia experiences I have actually met moralistic people with precisely that personality type. Some are even subconscious about it; they don't believe their behavior changes substantially, but you look at a game where they're Town and asked to be helpful and you look at a game where they're Scum and asked to be deceitful and the differences are stark.

I could also see Bob afraid about getting caught in a lie; like even if he has no moral objection to being evil, he's definitely the type who, if asked to wantonly deceive people he considers friends, would double and triple-check everything he wrote as sweat dripped off his brow.

...Bob is never going to be my friend again once he reads this. (But it's true! And I think it's a compliment because I love the dude, he's the kind of stalwart, loyal, trustworthy friend you like to have.)

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 09:31 PM

IMPOSSIBLE

No, actually, it is possible. Here's my paragraph.

Primary D1 goals are to stay alive and contribute. I want Townies to see I'm trying hard, coming up with interesting theories, being a Pro-Town advocate and adding value. I want Scummies to simultaneously fear me but think just enough of my theories are 'slightly off,' 'extravagant' or 'kooky' to warrant keeping me in the game. You gotta be 'just vague and possibly scummy enough' at moments so Scum thinks they can plant shit on you. D1 is always a crapshoot but I've made the best of it by causing controversy that can be referenced later on, and I got IHMN's role out in the open. D1 really isn't about following strong trails of evidence, power roles haven't acted and we know little and are statistically likely to kill a Townie anyway. It's about establishing who you are, encouraging a strong pace and flow of play, getting the ball rolling.

150 WORDS EXACTLY. SUCK IT BOOKIE

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:32 PM

SUCK IT BOOKIE

Avatar properly updated to indicate response.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 09:36 PM

Avatar properly updated to indicate response.

I know you were appropriately smitten by my beautiful paragraph there, Bookie, but please don't try to lick me anymore, that's disturbing.

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:37 PM

No, actually, it is possible. Here's my paragraph.

Primary D1 goals are to stay alive and contribute. I want Townies to see I'm trying hard, coming up with interesting theories, being a Pro-Town advocate and adding value. I want Scummies to simultaneously fear me but think just enough of my theories are 'slightly off,' 'extravagant' or 'kooky' to warrant keeping me in the game. You gotta be 'just vague and possibly scummy enough' at moments so Scum thinks they can plant shit on you. D1 is always a crapshoot but I've made the best of it by causing controversy that can be referenced later on, and I got IHMN's role out in the open. D1 really isn't about following strong trails of evidence, power roles haven't acted and we know little and are statistically likely to kill a Townie anyway. It's about establishing who you are, encouraging a strong pace and flow of play, getting the ball rolling.

Also look at the rest of this post, Snake is being goddamn succinct. Something suspicious is going on.

Also, Snake insulting me completely unprovoked is kind of dickish, man.

HoS: Snake

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 09:40 PM

Did you want another wall of text, Bookie?
Because I can start writing walls of text of you if you really miss seeing sensual gobs upon gobs of magenta cluttering your screen.

You do miss it, don't you? The neon pink splattered against every corner of your screen, dripping and oozing provocative eloquence, filling those empty holes in your life with delectable curves and lines, sending neurons to your brain conveying every consonant and vowel in an orgy of expressive, sumptuous delight.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 09:42 PM

Oh wait, did you actually delete the post that I responded to?

...Okay that has to be absolutely and in all seriousness against the rules man, whether you're joking or not.

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:44 PM

Oh wait, did you actually delete the post that I responded to?

...Okay that has to be absolutely and in all seriousness against the rules man, whether you're joking or not.

Er, yeah, I kind of realized that was stupid right after I did it.

Not doing that again.

I don't believe there's any explicit rules against (which is a terrible excuse yes I know), and Fenris can see deleted posts, sooooo I dunno. That's up to Fenris I guess.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 09:47 PM

RPGDemon (This is just such a different iteration of him from Homestuck Mafia; almost like Bookie, you can claim he's smarter, more confident, more self-aware, less paranoid. Maybe it's because he has a game under his belt. But I don't like it.)

I leveled up.

Really, I think it does boil down to the difference in roles I have. I'm no longer bulletproof, so before I was focused on trying not to get lynched, whereas now I'm trying to just contribute.

It's like, being immune to scum kills but not town kills made me worried about making sure the town liked me, so that we wouldn't waste it. Now, I just want to get as much speculation out there as possible, so that if I do die, I'll at least go down having given aid, and it'll all be there to see post-mortem.

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:48 PM

Hey, people.

Just a tip. If you have a power role, you might want to go invisible, since you can see exactly who is looking at PMs from whom on the active users page.

Like, I think I know four of the Mafiates now. Yeah, I'm not going to use that, but just a tip.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 09:51 PM

Like, I think I know four of the Mafiates now. Yeah, I'm not going to use that, but just a tip.

Like, how can you say you think you know this and not use it
That does not make any sense to me
You're not going to not vote one of those four people off if they're alongside someone else on the chopping block, that'd be stupid, and in that case your knowledge would actually be hurting Town as you'd refuse to make a pro-Town decision you otherwise may have made

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:52 PM

Or should I use that? If I'm correct, I just made myself a gigantic target for the Mafia, and I'll most likely die during the night.

But I'm inclined to say that's stupid metagaming and just try to forget it.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 09:52 PM

Is it allowed, Fenris?

Since I clicked over and screen grabbed the thing, then left without looking, to await confirmation. If it's allowed, then I'll look it over, if not, I'll get rid of it.

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:52 PM

Like, how can you say you think you know this and not use it
That does not make any sense to me
You're not going to not vote one of those four people off if they're alongside someone else on the chopping block, that'd be stupid, and in that case your knowledge would actually be hurting Town as you'd refuse to make a pro-Town decision you otherwise may have made

The issue here is one of metagame knowledge, and whether that's permissible to use in Mafia. If Fenris okays it, I'll post the names I saw.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 09:54 PM

...I think it's safe to say that you're either telling the truth and you're going to definitely die tonight, or you're lying for some reason and when you live through the night we'll kill you D2.

...In which case, you should probably just keep your mouth shut.
Actually you really should have kept your mouth shut period and privately informed Fenris or something, who may then have privately told Scum via e-mail to switch to e-mail communication or something. And he probably would have replaced you.

EDIT: (I know what your issue is, btw. My point wasn't regarding the dishonest nature of relying on the information, but rather that even if you consciously attempted not to rely on that 'evidence,' it'd subconsciously scar your opinion, like it will either help or hurt Town regardless of how you act on it. So if you seriously do know who Scum is and you're not lying your ass off, Fenris really should just replace you and have Scum switch to another non-NPF form of communication.)

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:56 PM

True. If Fenris wants to replace me, I'll do it.

And I maybe should have privately messaged him, yes, but hindsight 20-20 and all of that.

Mr.Bookworm

09-27-2011, 09:58 PM

Even if hindsight was like five minutes ago. Gah.

Uh. I'll stop posting in here until Fenris gives a verdict.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 10:00 PM

Actually, given that you'd be confirmed Town by virtue of your testimony if you were Replaced, the right move is probably for Fenris to Modkill you, have the Modkill end the Day (essentially acting as if Town mislynched you D1, which could have happened anyway) and go to Night.

Reasoning: The fact that you 'cheated' shouldn't help Town, but if you're Replaced it does help Town because your role is confirmed Town even after you leave. BTW, the 'cheating' you did wasn't mistakenly learning this information but rather broadcasting it publicly (essentially confirming your Town role via Meta) and really, definitely should have just PMed Fenris and not outed yourself. If you're merely replaced, Scum likely kills your replacement N1 (thus making the replacement basically worthless) and maybe Scum wouldn't have if you didn't change the dynamic.

NOTE: I am not Mod and Fenris could totally contradict me. I'm just sayin' how I'd handle it. Because you see, Bookie, by just announcing what you've seen, even if you're wrong about what you saw, you just completely upset the balance of the game by relying on extraneous factors to 'prove you're Town.' Like even if you didn't catch four Scummates sending a message, the mere fact you posted publicly that you thought you did means we all know your alignment.

EDIT: I'm speaking as a former host now and trying to retain objectivity; my own comments in no way reflect my own alignment, as evidenced by the fact that everything I just said equally applies regardless of my alignment. Just clearing that up.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 10:10 PM

To be fair though, it could be part of a gambit, since he didn't say any names, said he wouldn't act on it.

Like, he could just be saying, "Hey, people can see your PMs. Also, scuuuuum might have been found!"

I'd like some confirmation on whether or not I can look at the screenshots that I took though. I'll save them for now, and look later.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 10:12 PM

To be fair though, it could be part of a gambit, since he didn't say any names, said he wouldn't act on it.

If this is a gambit, it's a gambit that should really be against the rules for so many reasons that it makes the whole "Don't Delete Posts / Don't Talk about this in Chat" rules look petty and inconsequential by comparison.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 10:13 PM

Mainly, I took them as a way of fact checking what Bookie says, if he's allowed to say. Since I think I snagged them fast enough after he posted. We'll see, I guess.

rpgdemon

09-27-2011, 10:16 PM

If this is a gambit, it's a gambit that should really be against the rules for so many reasons that it makes the whole "Don't Delete Posts / Don't Talk about this in Chat" rules look petty and inconsequential by comparison.

Yeah, that's true. Though, I remember your Mafia game saying metagaming was allowed at your own risk, so I dunno if a modkill is called for, especially since this one didn't have a formal rules post.

From your game, it seems like it was something that was just dangerous to do, rather than expressly forbidden.

I dunno, Fenris's call.

Solid Snake

09-27-2011, 10:28 PM

Yeah, that's true. Though, I remember your Mafia game saying metagaming was allowed at your own risk, so I dunno if a modkill is called for, especially since this one didn't have a formal rules post.

Eh.
I originally had a rather long post here detailing exactly why this doesn't technically qualify as metagaming and the pragmatic issues that this behavior presents etc., but instead I'll let Fenris come back to this, flip out upon reading everything and make his own judgments on the matter.

Really, the lesson here is that we shouldn't rely on NPF PMs for scum to communicate, scum needs to communicate via e-mail or something else that no one here can track. The lesson here is also to PM the Host first whenever stuff like this happens. And finally, the lesson here is for Snake to not try to put on 'objective former Host hat' and keep his own mouth shut. The end!

Fenris

09-28-2011, 12:08 AM

play the game right

re: bookie, I'mma go do some soul-searching. I have plenty of stuff to worry about doing without you guys cheating creeping up on my "shit to take care of" meter so if you all could just refrain from that shit, that'd be nice.

for now, send me the list of people you saw and what they were doing. It's wholly possible they weren't discussing mafia-related things.

Fenris

09-28-2011, 12:18 AM

SOUL SEARCHED

Mr.Bookworm, Sweetie Belle, Cutie Mark Crusader, Town-aligned was sent to a dungeon on the moon.

IT IS NOW NIGHT ONE. NIGHT ONE ENDS FRIDAY NIGHT, 10 PM, CST.

(This means don't post in the thread until Friday night, 10 PM, CST.)

Fenris

09-28-2011, 12:26 AM

Oh, and put yourselves on invisible mode, goddamn. All of you.

Fenris

09-30-2011, 12:53 AM

I actually got all the role PMs in on time!

Verifiedz has replaced Moogle.

-------------------

Rainbow Dash didn't like this. Rainbow Dash didn't like this one bit. As she flew over the night sky of Ponyville, a roaring laugh from one of the homes caught her ears.

"The Great and Powerful Trixie will not be laughed out of Ponyville this time!" the magical mare chortled to two diminutive colts.

"Yeah! The G. 'n P. T. is great! And, uh, powerful," the taller colt said.

"Snails!" the shortest pony cried, "Stop wasting time! We need to go find Rainbow Dash and bring her to Trixie!"

Far above, Rainbow Dash decided to get a little closer. She descended towards the house, in time to hear Snails reply, "Okay, okay! Just let me lock up, and-"

His sentence was interrupted however, by said cyan pegasus mare crashing through his window at an absurdly high velocity, scattering the belongings of the abode everywhere.

Rainbow Dash bolted from the building before the dust could settle, chastising herself the whole time for her lack of subtlety. "Stupid! Now I'll never figure out what's going on with Snips and Snails! And was that Trixie...?"

Coughing, Snips, Snails, and Trixie sputtered around. Trixie had no idea what had transpired, and neither Snips nor Snails clearly did, either.

"My mom is gonna kill me, eh? I better clean this mess up..." Snails said, dejectedly.

"Well! Snips and I shall head out into Ponyville proper and find Rainbow Dash ourselves!" Trixie commanded. "Let's go!"

"Your wish is my command," Snails replied, bowing.

"Just follow me, and don't speak!" Trixie said as she cantered out of the devastated Haus de Snails.

The duo began to head into the town, when a flash of movement caught Snips's eye by the forest. He quickly trotted towards the edge of the town to investigate. After all, it could have been Rainbow Dash!

Unfortunately for Snips, he was incredibly mistaken. The cockatrice he had disturbed had used its petrifying glare on him, and began turning him to stone. "Trixie! Hel-!" he cried, but it was too late. A Snips statuette was in place by the edge of the forest.

Trixie began to panic and fled the scene. A short while later, she ran into a stately mare.

"Are you lost?" the mare asked.

"No, but my fr-acquaintance Snips has been turned to stone by a cockatrice! Is there anything you can do to help The Great and Powerful Trixie?"

"I cannot do anything, but there is a zebra who lives in the forest who may be able to help your acquaintance. If you'll allow me to escort you, then we might be able to cure the colt."

Trixie never returned to Ponyville. She probably didn't even make it to the zebra.

------------------

You wake up this morning to find that Snips: P-Sleazy, Snails: Bob Dole, and The Great and Powerful Trixie: Smarty McBarrelpants are missing!

It is now Day 2. 18 remaining. 10 to "lynch." Deadline sometime!

Aldurin

09-30-2011, 01:10 AM

What, so is this cult or mafia disappearances? I am confused as shit.

Fenris

09-30-2011, 01:11 AM

What, so is this cult or mafia disappearances? I am confused as shit.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/NuklearFenris/Reaction%20Images/1298785049982.jpg

IHateMakingNames

09-30-2011, 01:20 AM

What, so is this cult or mafia disappearances? I am confused as shit.
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/episode2.jpg

IHateMakingNames

09-30-2011, 01:22 AM

What, so is this cult
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/nod4.gif

Geminex

09-30-2011, 01:46 AM

I'm assuming Smarty was cult leader? I had trixie pegged for cult leader anyway, and that's consisten with the flavor text. The 'stately mare' would've probably been nightmare moon. Snips and Snails would've been cultists from the start, to give the cult a bit of a boost, but to counterbalance that, I guess the rule was that "all cultists die if the cult leader dies". Since smarty got targeted by the mafia, whelp. -1 cult.

What I'm uncertain of is if Snips' death was just flavor, or if the cocatrice is the serial killer and just happened to target p-sleazy in the same night that the mafia targeted Smarty. On the one hand, the flavor indicates that only Trixie and Snails died to the "stately mare", on the other hand, that'd be one hell of a coincidence, particularly since p-sleazy hasn't made much of a target of himself.

Also, this: (http://nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1156546&postcount=82). Nikose is either a very good guess, or he knows something.

Also also, Fenris, why did the town lose its lynch? I get that Bookie had to die, but why'd the town get punished because mafia forgot to put itself on invisible?

Gregness

09-30-2011, 01:49 AM

So, can we draw any conclusions about roles from the flavor text? If there's three deaths, we can attribute one to the mafia, and one to the cockatrice (serial killer?). Where does #3 come from?

Gregness

09-30-2011, 01:51 AM

What I mean is, can we draw conclusions about what roles there are in the game, not necessarily what people are.

IHateMakingNames

09-30-2011, 01:55 AM

Where does #3 come from?
Rainbow Dash didn't like this. Rainbow Dash didn't like this one bit. As she flew over the night sky of Ponyville, a roaring laugh from one of the homes caught her ears.
...
Far above, Rainbow Dash decided to get a little closer. She descended towards the house, in time to hear Snails reply, "Okay, okay! Just let me lock up, and-"
http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab149/IStillHateMakingNames/572328-2.gif

Gregness

09-30-2011, 01:58 AM

Soooo... Rainbow Dash is a vigilante?

Aldurin

09-30-2011, 01:58 AM

Wait, I don't think Trixie is the cult leader. Given the flavor text I would assume that our three disappearances are people that were culted, and it's indicated that the one zebra character from the show is the flavor role for the cult leader.

Although it is weird that those specific flavor roles disappeared at the same time if they were really culted.

Geminex

09-30-2011, 02:31 AM

Aldurin, why that?

I thought this made it pretty clear:
"Snails!" the shortest pony cried, "Stop wasting time! We need to go find Rainbow Dash and bring her to Trixie!"
The ponies in question would have been 'brought before Trixie and inducted into her personality cult. The cult tried to induct rainbow dash, but I'm guessing her ability is loyalty, so that failed. And then the cult leader (Trixie) got mafia'd, and Snails died as well. That's kinda obvious, I thought.

Edit:
Again, the questions are, is there a SK in form of the cocatrice, what did nikose know and why'd smarty of all people get mafia'd?

Edit2:
I certainly don't think RD is a vigilante. We don't see her take out any cultists. Or anyone else for that matter.

Solid Snake

09-30-2011, 02:51 AM

How the hell did I as town survive N1
I'm actually almost insulted that this means Mafia thought Smarty was a bigger threat than me
(I mean they were right, insofar as he was Cult, but still)

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 06:40 AM

@Gem: I'm very old hat at mafia and I'm good at guessing roles. I was just teasing around in my first post and I called out Smarty because he was playing seriously- which, it's SMARTY, and I couldn't see him doing that if he was generic role #14.

@Snake: because at worst you are the Serial Killer, because that is one accusation I have not seen you make at all, all game long. And the SK doesn't strike me as a particularly large threat in early-game compared to the mafia as a whole, who usually have a variety of powers, especially in a game about MAGICAL FRIENDSHIP. And at best you are town with some sort of mild power role, probably immune to night kills.

So you know, mostly going to ignore you until the mafia is down, since SK might as well be town until we kill him too.

************************

Am still thinking accusatory throughts at Sifright/Geminex/ a little bit Karesh? I'm actually inclined to believe Karesh's roleclaim. I'm not sure where to go from here but I figured I'd weigh in.

Just gonna open the day with that.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-30-2011, 06:45 AM

Wow, I am even more confused now then when we had no information at all. I'm gona break this down so that I can understand it;

SMB appears to have been cult leader, and was presumably targeted by the mafia. Trixe has the perfect personally for the cult leader, so that makes sense, and the mafia would most likely target the more vocal players, so as to quickly remove them from the game before they pose a threat. Really this seems pretty clear cut to me.

P-Sleazy is taken out by a cockatrice. 2 possibilities I see; either the cockatrice is a SK, or taking out SMB took down the whole cult and the cock is just flavour text. I can definately see a cockatrice being an SK, but I can't see why the SK would target P-Sleazy. Like the mafia, the SK would surely want to take out more vocal players first and leave inactives until later, for easy pickings. This lends credance to all the cult being destroyed with SMBs death.

Bob. We didn't actually see what took down Bob, he was last seen tidying up his house after Rainbow Dash attacks. Again, 2 possibilities; either SMBs death also ended Bob (likely, considering this is now the 3rd cult member to go in a single night), or Rainbow Dash did a lot of damage to his house and the initial attack was what took him out of the game, which lends credance to RD being a vigilante.

Of course, the idea that the entire cult could be taken down in 1 night by 3 seperate attacks (mafia kill, SK kill, vigilante kill) is extremely unlikely, but then, if the mafia took down SMB which in turn took down the other 2, then it also means there are no other power roles that can night kill, otherwise they would have used them. I can't honestly say how often vigilantes and SKs are used in games, but if either of them is pretty common then why are there no other kills if the mafia alone is responsible for these 3? Unless those roles got handed out to the inactives, which is possible I suppose.

And then of course there's this; Any self-aligned players win when they are the last pony standing.

Which would seem to indicate that there is some sort of self aligned player such as an SK. Though it could just be Fen trying to misdirect us.

So, honestly, I have no idea. Either there is an SK and a vig and together with the mafia they somehow took down the whole cult in 1 night, or the mafia took down the cult in 1 night and there's no SK or vig in the game at all. I'm kinda favouring the latter right now, and hopeing it's true because otherwise at this rate we're gona be burning through players at an alarming rate.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 06:59 AM

SMB, Trixie, Cult Leader, got Mafia'd; P-Sleazy, Snips, Cult recruit, got SK'd by the Cockatrice; And Bob Dole, Snails, Cult Recruit, got... Dash'd by Dash?

But Rainbow Dash's post feels more like a Roleblocker than a Vig- Even though the end of the post clearly states that Snails is 'missing'.

I'm gonna assume like everyone else that Dash is the Vig but, feels kinda weird in the flavor text.

Verifiedz

09-30-2011, 07:05 AM

then whos rainbow dash.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 07:08 AM

From the flavor text? some sort of PO/Jail role, maybe. Seems ridiculously powerful, which is why I'm thinking it's just a Vig hit with quirks.

Fenris

09-30-2011, 07:18 AM

I derped, and forgot that

Revolving Ocelot is replacing Ramary.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 07:41 AM

My take on the situation:

Unfortunately, we are unable to pinpoint exactly which pony the Nightmare is residing in this time, but we are positive that with your help, we will be able to send it back to the moon, and permanently.

This implies an actual lynch or death equates to being sent to the moon. The list of people out so far?

On The Moon
11. Mr. Bookworm, Sweetie Belle, Cutie Mark Crusader - (GM Moon'd Day 1)

In The Forest
8. Smarty McB

Turned to Stone
2. P-Sleazy

Cleaning House
19. Bob Dole

Only one of those is moon'd. I'm getting the implication the others are not dead and can return at some point? Bob Dole's cleaning house, and unless Rainbow Dash has made an titanic mess he could possibly return in a day or two without intervention. P-Sleazy may require a special role to unpetrify him. As for Smarty, I don't know. The mare may be indoctrinating him into the cult.

Anyway, can't just dismiss the cult as entirely dead for now.

greed

09-30-2011, 07:42 AM

"My mom is gonna kill me, eh? I better clean this mess up..." Snails said, dejectedly.

I'm thinking that maybe Rainbow Dash is the vig and she removed Snails/Bob from the game by getting him grounded by his mother. That's a pretty lore appropriate (and funny) way for a vig to work in a MLP game. Gave me chuckle Fenris.

But yeah simultaneous attack on the entire cult from three different kill powers? That is unlikely but really awesome if it happened.:dance:

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 07:43 AM

If anyone 'fixes' a cult role, then they're really, really stupid. I'm just throwing that out there now.

[It would also explain why the roles aren't explicitly given, but Cult, especially when they all drop at once, show as really obvious here. Like, if Snips had dropped alone, or Snails alone? People would probably just assume simple Vanilla town. Dropping alongside Trixie gives a big flavor post that shows they're all pretty much definitely Cult.]

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 07:44 AM

@Greed: Yeah, I came to the same conclusion in the end. :P cause if RBD is some kinda SUPERJAIL role publicist, what the crapballs.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 07:47 AM

Flavour post shows Trixie Smarty went down after the other two, however. If it was cause and effect Trixie would be first.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 07:52 AM

I'm not saying cause and effect; I'm saying that They were all cult roles, and it was just really obvious because all three dropped at once. I'm not arguing order of operations here, Math class isn't till 11 AM for me.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 08:01 AM

Also, it's stated absolutely nowhere that they're Town, Cult, Scum or Turkey Lurkeys. No roles, nothing. If they were truly out of the game like Bookie, wouldn't they be revealed?

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 08:03 AM

I'm willing to bet that roles aren't revealed unless they're sent to the moon. So Cult/Vig/Mafia downs aren't going to explicitly show.

Also that's pretty obvious so

FOS: Revolving Ocelot

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 08:03 AM

The scum may not have actually killed anyone in the night. I know that happened a few times in the Homestuck game, but I can't remember whether that was by choice, roleblocking or inactivity.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 08:08 AM

You are severely overthinking this.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 08:15 AM

I think you're trying to divert attention away. And given your odd behaviour in Day 1, well...

Vote: Nikose

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 08:24 AM

I suppose I shall Counter that.

As nothing you've really said lines up today. What exactly am I diverting attention away from? The fact that the cult dropped last night? that there's only 3 kill roles in this game and they simul-killed, by incredibly luck, the whole cult? That logic is apparently your greatest foe? That I called out Smarty's Cult Role day 1 so clearly I'm scum? That I called out a whole string of names with random roles attached, Two of which are confirmed to be scum roles?

The only reason I'm not actively voting for you, is that I don't believe you have a scum role. I think you're just confused a very confused Townie.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-30-2011, 09:28 AM

Nikose is a poopie head.
Honestly the dude could be some kinda crazy Vig/PO/BG/Immune to night killing/cultifying super bullshit Town can't lose if he's around role and somehow.
Someway.
Nikose would find a way to be a liability.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 09:47 AM

Nikose: Always a liability.

rpgdemon

09-30-2011, 09:57 AM

I'm assuming Smarty was cult leader? I had trixie pegged for cult leader anyway, and that's consisten with the flavor text. The 'stately mare' would've probably been nightmare moon. Snips and Snails would've been cultists from the start, to give the cult a bit of a boost, but to counterbalance that, I guess the rule was that "all cultists die if the cult leader dies". Since smarty got targeted by the mafia, whelp. -1 cult.

The entire cult thing confuses me. From what I understand: There's a leader, and it was Smarty. Smarty converts people, and when he has everyone converted, he wins? What's to stop someone who was culted from just going, "I'M CULT, HERE IS THE CULT!"? Or does their alignment get changed to Cult instead of town?

Not that it really matters, since apparently when the leader dies, the cult dies?

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 09:59 AM

Actually, when the Leader dies, the cult can still win, so long as at least one remains; he has to mislead and has no kill powers, and be last man standing.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

09-30-2011, 09:59 AM

The entire cult thing confuses me. From what I understand: There's a leader, and it was Smarty. Smarty converts people, and when he has everyone converted, he wins? What's to stop someone who was culted from just going, "I'M CULT, HERE IS THE CULT!"? Or does their alignment get changed to Cult instead of town?

Not that it really matters, since apparently when the leader dies, the cult dies?

Their alignment gets changed to cult. Technically I suppose they could still be all "I AM THE CULT", but I don't think they're ever informed of who the cult leader is so all they'd be able to do is call out "I'M CULT KILL MEEEE"

Even if they did do that, it's somewhat poor sportsmanship don't you think?

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 09:59 AM

Addendum: That never really happens, though. Usually cult either wins or dies very quickly.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-30-2011, 10:04 AM

Actually, when the Leader dies, the cult can still win, so long as at least one remains; he has to mislead and has no kill powers, and be last man standing.

Well, if that is the case, then I guess SMBs (if he is the leader) death really didn't bring down the whole cult, the other 2 kills must've been instrumental as well. As unlikely as that sounds. I mean really, what are the chances of 3 different killers hitting all cult members on the same night? Anybody actually care to work out the maths on that?

Addendum: That never really happens, though. Usually cult either wins or dies very quickly.

Like, night 1 very quickly?

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 10:04 AM

[Game is more interesting then class, but I'll be in and out of game during downtimes in class till like 8 tonight.]

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 10:05 AM

Also, yes, Night 1 very quickly. This was incredibly lucky circumstances, but it's pretty stand out that this is what happened.

Like worst case scenario, Trixie's Culting actually happened despite Night 1 death, and we have one vig out. I don't think that happened, though.

rpgdemon

09-30-2011, 10:09 AM

Well, if that is the case, then I guess SMBs (if he is the leader) death really didn't bring down the whole cult, the other 2 kills must've been instrumental as well. As unlikely as that sounds. I mean really, what are the chances of 3 different killers hitting all cult members on the same night? Anybody actually care to work out the maths on that?

I shall! Since I am taking the probability class!

It's just 3/21 * 2/21 * 1/21, I think. (There were 21 of us, right?)

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-30-2011, 10:12 AM

22 actually. But yeah, ok, I guess it's not as impossible then. Still surprising though.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 10:15 AM

Assuming no revive roles exist:

18 players Remain.
5 Mafiates; 1 Self Aligned SK; 12 Town.

Town has a strong edge over the scum in this game, as we have half-again their numbers.
Mafia has the advantage of knowing each other, and not worrying about hitting one if their own numbers.

Last night was a good thing; We want to find a mafiate- as many mafiates as we can.

[With 3 scum deaths and 1 town death on [Round 1], the outcome was overall favourable.]

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 10:19 AM

Daytime, we have the lynch to try and find someone-
1 death[MoonBanished]

Nighttime, we have:
the SK- Random Death, could affect either side [logically more likely to hit town; Cluckles the Cockatrice, turns to stone];
The Vig - Town Friendly killer, could affect either side but will logically try and hit the mafiates [Rainbow Dash, apparently high velocity impacts];
The Mafia, which will kill each night [Probably Nightmare Moon, Lead Astray into the forest].

The only way to confirm a role is to send the person to the moon, from the look of things.

Anything wrong so far?

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 10:26 AM

Basically I think we're going to be swinging blind trying to hit mafiates without some sort of direction. I'm unsure of which direction we should be swinging right now. Like, I've already stated my general suspicious re: RPGdemon, Geminex and Sifright but they're not heavy enough anymore for me to push. :/

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 10:58 AM

As nothing you've really said lines up today. What exactly am I diverting attention away from? The fact that the cult dropped last night? that there's only 3 kill roles in this game and they simul-killed, by incredibly luck, the whole cult?

The fact that at least one person is, in my opinion, not lynched, and you immediately dismiss it as "overthinking".

Sifright

09-30-2011, 10:59 AM

I'm pretty suspicious of Snake, my reasoning is that despite bookies cheating the logically fair thing to do would be to boot him out of the game and not have it count as our lynching being taken. After all the entire town didn't cheat only bookie did and we all got punished as a result. I don't know how it's handled in other mafia games but had both my self and gem been GO killed earlier i don't think the day would have been ended and the only difference there is scale.

So... fos:Snake

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 10:59 AM

Fenris, can you please confirm that those three are effectively out of game, barring someone returning them to game via special power?

Fenris

09-30-2011, 11:02 AM

Fenris, can you please confirm that those three are effectively out of game, barring someone returning them to game via special power?

S�, se�or. Those 3 things (check the first post, yo) are this game's equivalent of a nightkill.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 11:03 AM

Thank you Fenris, for confirming something I thought was obvious.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 11:03 AM

In that case ignore my crazy rambling.

Unvote: Nikose

I'd still like to keep you on suspicion however for your Day 1 antics.

FoS: Nikose.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 11:07 AM

My day 1 activities were pretty well described as antic-y. In fairness I think everyone on the first and second page should get an FOS, if we're going by acting silly on day 1! :D

Aldurin

09-30-2011, 11:07 AM

What worries me is that we could very well be all townies trying to figure out who is the scum when the scum is actually stepping back and letting us go at each other.

Is there anyone who has low thread activity here but high forum activity?

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 11:11 AM

That's the old "should we lynch the inactives or not" issue, but I did see Fawfulcopter online yesterday. He ain't posted yet.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 11:13 AM

He was online yesterday, when the whole game was night. I don't know if that's entirely fair, RO. What's his post history? has he been posting while the game's been in day mode?

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 11:18 AM

He has exactly 1 forum post, and that was in the signup thread.

I was saying I've seen him as recently as yesterday, although I wasn't checking for such things before Night 1 as I wasn't in the game.

Aldurin

09-30-2011, 11:18 AM

That's the old "should we lynch the inactives or not" issue,

But it is still an important issue, because if we choose to ignore the inactives then the scum know where to hide the whole time. Then the town will slowly lynch each other down to nothing.

I'm trying to make sure we look at the whole picture, and not just those who post a thousand times here.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 11:23 AM

Aldurin, the problem with that, is, we know that the mafiates [at least one of them] IS active enough to be sending in roles; and the SK clearly acted in the night. Odds are they'd be participating in the game or posting around NPF somewhere; total inactives probably means they just aren't around NPF.

They also want to dissuade people from voting for them, so they probably wouldn't lurk and risk getting called out- it's why Fawfulcopter feels like an unlikely target to me, to be honest.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 11:28 AM

As for Julford Hajime, he was last online on the 27th, which was definitely Day 1 time. And he ain't a one-post wonder.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 11:29 AM

I could get behind Julford Hajime as a suspect. Feels tenuous, but it's a decent plan.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 11:29 AM

Although he hasn't posted here either, as far as I'm aware. (I miss the edit function)

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 11:30 AM

Decent plan is kind of a crummy phrase for it. It's the least ass-like plan.

Revising Ocelot

09-30-2011, 11:35 AM

Only if we run out of other avenues to explore.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

09-30-2011, 01:06 PM

I would just like to point out it was SMB that first advocated the lynching of inactives, specifically Fawful. In retrospect it was probably a cultie tactic to make us waste a lynch whilst he recruited. But, now he's gone that's not something to worry about.

However, I did notice that greed posted again right at the start of day 2, so I want to know where he's been until now.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 01:34 PM

The post was timestamped at 8:45 AM EST. That's 11:45 PM at night for him.

It's 2:30 PM now; 3:30 in the morning for him.

I'm going to be OK with giving Greed till reasonable daylight hours. :P

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 01:35 PM

I'd actually be okay with lynching Sifright and I wouldn't feel very bad about it.

Sifright

09-30-2011, 01:52 PM

And why is this?

Sifright

09-30-2011, 01:58 PM

Ok I'm presuming i'm going to get lynched I think nikose and by extension the mafia are going to work to have my lynched today to ensure that a town voter base doesn't grow around me and Karesh.

My feverent request is that after i'm shown to be town you guys lynch the fuck out of Nikose, who wants to kill me just because

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 02:00 PM

Same as yesterday. Note that I haven't really pushed it yet today. I'm kind of sitting back on it and thinking about it more.

Three names in that chat. One was a role that Fenris would not want to GM kill under any circumstances, and then there was you and Gem.

Meanwhile, Bookie gets instantly ex-communicated for someone else's mistake.

Logically? You and/or Gem may have a powerful role that would disharmonize the game, making Fenris not want to GM-off you for talking out of game. Your roleclaim was... odd. The characterization people had trouble seeing, and even I had to reach in order to justify it at all.

Plus a good number of people still feel pretty sketch over you- and if your roleclaim turns out to be accurate, then the idea that Karesh is Fluttershy and immune to night kills would give us a powerful ally we could count on as being as-good-as confirmed.

Nikose Tyris

09-30-2011, 02:02 PM

I'd like to point out again, that if Sifright's role is confirmed by his lynch, then we have only half-wasted a day, as we would still get confirmation about Karesh/Fluttershy.

Alternatively I guess we could Lynch Snake since he's the Serial Killer but like, that's optional like I said.

Sifright

09-30-2011, 02:19 PM

and killing me purely for the purposes of a role claim is ridiculous and hurts town dramatically because none of the townies except the investigator will trust any other townies where as I trust Karesh to not actively attempt to hurt the town.

You kill me and the only change for other townies is that you all implicitly trust karesh and gain NOTHING else whilst that trust might be important it doesn't change the fact that we have already lost one day and will lose another if i'm murdered again killing me for role claim proof is some ridiculous shit.

I'm not certain at this point but i believe that both snake and Nikose are mafia, the whole voting each other thing being a fairly standard d1 mafia tactic so people look back on it and go nah mafia wouldn't try to kill each other so that in the event that one of them is taken out and happens to be mafia we don't lynch the other

Edit: added the word day in bold, I tend to miss words out when i'm typing fast.

Solid Snake

09-30-2011, 02:22 PM

I'm the Serial Killer?
This is news to me.

Also, both Sifright's logic that "LOLZ Snake tried to play impartial host and gave reasoning as to why Bookie had to die, therefore he is scum" and Nikose's reasoning that "Geminex or Sifright might be a power role that Fenris did not want to kill" are equally bullshit.

Verifiedz

09-30-2011, 02:25 PM

nikose your being very suspicious...posting alot huh? you nervous bout something? hmm? NIKOSE IS MAFIA.i think.

Verifiedz

09-30-2011, 02:26 PM

lets vote him

Sifright

09-30-2011, 02:27 PM

Well I don't get the rational for wanting town to lose a day because a dude cheated the rest of town gained nothing from it and a townie was killed off we lost out already so losing a day on top of that makes a huge difference maybe i'm a touch bitter but the only chance i have to effect the game is via lynching and we lost a day and by the looks of it there are three people who can kill during the night so night actions are vastly more powerful.

I mean it's not like bookie was even on the list of candidates we were considering lynching. maybe it's just sour grapes.

Verifiedz

09-30-2011, 02:28 PM

Solid Snake

09-30-2011, 02:38 PM

Verifiedz: You are the anti-Snake.
Like, everything that is Snake, about the way Snake plays the game of Mafia.
You are his kryptonite.

I think it's far too early to be jumping into lynches, insofar as only the active folks are even drawing suspicion. I want a little more varied activity before jumping down anyone's throat.

Also, Sifright: Impartially and objectively speaking.
If anyone 'cheats' and the result of his 'cheating' has to either harm his own faction or the opposing faction, it has to harm his own faction.
The real issue with Bookie 'cheating' wasn't actually that he (accidentally) caught wind of private information, it's that upon doing so he publicly broadcasted what happened instead of going to Fenris first.

If he goes to Fenris and privately confides his knowledge, he could have been replaced. But for Fenris to replace Bookie after Bookie's public post indicating what happened would have had the effect of confirming Bookie's role as Town, which would have put Scum in an awkward position when they weren't the ones who did anything wrong.

Like I do not see what is so difficult to grasp about this. Again: What Bookie did wrong wasn't that he happened to check out "Who's Online" and saw some shit. What Bookie did 'wrong' was that he (perhaps subconsciously or indirectly) tried to leverage this knowledge into 'proving' to everyone in the game that he was Town / (at least, not Mafia) when he could have instead PMed Fenris and be like "Hey Fenris, you should probably replace me given what I now know, also everyone should go Invisible."