Forgotten Realms Mafia!

[Bard The 5th LW]

Also, forgot to do this.

Vote: Fenris

[Fenris]

Also all of your posts are low content low activity, like every other time you have been mafia. I recommend every one to do a check for that go forum games thread list. Under the posts column click the post number listed for this thread and read the list of players and post numbers beside them, to see all of the posts a player has made concurrently click the number of posts beside them. Fenris has made nothing but low content posts and hasnt been very active.

Alrighty.

I've been making low content low activity posts because I have a thousand other things to do that are higher priorities in my life than this game.

Also, shit just went up fuck creek so I don't have time for this mafia anymore.

I'm the Mafia Don. (again!) PEACE.

Vote: Fenris

[BahamutFlare]

Vote: Fenris

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm mason'd with Aldurin. Don't see a reason to hide that at this point.

So people don't think I'm just crazy on this one.

[Dracorion]

Alrighty.

I've been making low content low activity posts because I have a thousand other things to do that are higher priorities in my life than this game.

Also, shit just went up fuck creek so I don't have time for this mafia anymore.

I'm the Mafia Don. (again!) PEACE.

Vote: Fenris

http://www.sheenhumor.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/107__420x340_why-you-mad-allergic-to-winning.jpg

I believe that's eight votes on Feeny. Isn't it nine to lynch? Nine with Bahamut's.

[Nikose Tyris]

Someone give me a vote count but I'm pretty sure I know how this is going down now.

[Nikose Tyris]

"Foolish Mortals! Know that you will see my return!" Szass Tam cried out, as the glory of the Wisest of the Seven Sisters was brought to bear upon his undead countenance.

FenrisWolf, Red Wizard Leader and Zulkir of Necromancy, is slain.

NIGHT 2 BEGINS.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Come join me down here in the afterlife Fen, it's way cooler than where those other losers are!

[Nikose Tyris]

HAWK, NEVRON, ZULKIR OF EVOCATION, IS DEAD TWICE. STOP TARGETTING HIM PEOPLE, HE DOESN'T GET MUCH MORE DEAD THEN THIS.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm going to be smart about this and say that Day 3 will begin Friday, give tons of time for night roles.

Also, god damn it bodyguards stop killing hawk YOU CAN'T EVEN DO THAT

[Nikose Tyris]

All roles are in. I'll evenutally be typing up the end of night 2 / start of day 3 stuff. I'm just headachey from meds still.

[Nikose Tyris]

Greed, Samas Kul, Mafia Aligned, was found dead with an iron mace mark upside his head. His bloated corpse was all swollen and fat.

Bookworm, Anastra Sylune Silverhand, Town and Sister Aligned, was once again laid to rest via intense violence and a pair of scimitars.

Geminex, Kumed Hahpret, Mafia-traitor and new Mafia Don, the red wizard, got ridiculously fucking exploded by Alassra Silverhand.

Gregness himself took to a tumble with Kumed Hahpret before his fall, and was caught in the initial blast with Alassra. Thankfully, Gregness appears to have escaped from this tussle without a scratch.

DAY 3 [or is it 4 I forget] BEGINS.

[IHateMakingNames]

POs, tell us if you found Manshoon. Or any other self-aligns left. Bard is the last mafia.

Vote: Bard

Also, I want to go on record saying it was bullshit that the bodyguard blocked the mafia's day power on me.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Im telling you guys, Aldurin = Manshoon unless he was doing something else to Karesh that wasnt a nightkill. And if IHMN is with Aldurin than I don't think he's with Town.

[Nikose Tyris]

"TODAY ENDS NOW." Alustriel suddenly cried out, not wanting to see any more of her sisters dead.

She pointed her finger at Bard. "Today is the day you die!" And the full force of the remaining sisters came to bear... on Aldurin, Laeral Arunsun Silverhand, 5th Sister, Town Aligned.

NIGHT 3 HAS FALLEN.

updating first post, please send in your night roles, blah blah blah.

Edit: Day 4 starts Sunday Night at like, I dunno, 5 pm EST and I'll stick to it this time.

[Aldurin]

You heroes are all incompetent morons. Fuck you and fuck your magic.

[Nikose Tyris]

HEY

NIGHT ROLES

SEND THEM TO ME

[Nikose Tyris]

Night is over now!

Everyone attacked Bard in the night! However, people had issues getting past Lallara Mediocros, and no attacks struck past her powerful abjurations protecting Bard.

Lauzoril, as the leader of the Zulkirs aka Red Wizards, turned to Drizzt Do'Urden. "Okay, I've had enough of your namby-pamby elf bullshit." and finally obliterated Ravashak.

While Alassra Silverhand, The Simbul, gathered her things to go and swiftly annihilate Bard, her target, a crude, black iron mace met the back of her head. "But things have been going so well," the owner of the mace chuckled. "Don't let things get all changed up now." Inbred Chocobo died on the floor of her massive and ornate castle.


Ravashak, Drizzt Do'Urden, is dead!

Inbred Chocobo, Alassra Silverhand, the Simbul, 6th sister, is dead.

DAY BEGINS AGAIN.

[IHateMakingNames]

I was considering Mayoring Bard, but it was a combination of not thinking that power-control power would be usable twice in a row since that's just stupid overpowered, and that I didn't want to be that dick that makes it night right away after the previous night just ended.

Edit - Removed vote from Bard for now.

If you have a day role don't say anything cause I guess Bard can do it again.

Again POs reveal who you've found so we can find the last mafia and Manshoon.

Edit - We'll lose if everyone doesn't claim and reveal what they know today.

[BahamutFlare]

Ugh I can finally post?

Anyway, Bard is mafia 100%. For sure.

The night text revealed the new mafia leader had redirecting powers. Hmm, therefore, Dracorion I believe is the new Don. He admitted to having redirecting powers. He knew of Fenris' kill. I believe the Hawk thing was a brilliant excuse, but it seems too good to be true, and I think someone else did something else. Hawk was targeted by 4 people.

However, we know bard is mafia. Should I go on a hunch or should I go for the 100% mafia?

Vote: Bard

[Moogle0119]

I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that Bard is mafia, but there's definitely at least one more Red Wizard still around. Going off the wiki, there's only 6 listed Red Wizards of Thay (or Zulkir) out of the 8 available positions with the Divination school and Illusion schools being vacant. Unless Nikose filled in those two other positions, we're looking at 2 or possibly 4 Red Wizards left (which I doubt). Regardless I think we should definitely get rid of Bard now with our lynch and try to focus on the remaining Red Wizard during the night or the next day when we may have more clues as to who it is. The only ones confirmed so far not to be Red Wizards are myself, RMB, and IHMN so we need to work off of that for further leads.

Vote: Bard

[IHateMakingNames]

Yo, Black Network, how many members do you have?

Red Mage Black and Drac, probably Moogle, don't be shy to speak up.

Red Wizards, if there are any more of them, I guess it's up to you to decide who wins this game. Bard and whoever Lallara is, you guys are kinda fucked but you have a chance.

This lynch just gives one side an advantage, but the night kill/body guard rock-paper-scissors coming up night decides who wins. Pretty sure Black Network has it though. Way to go Bard, had to be a dick and get rid of Day 3. Had I known Nikose wasn't going to make it another week long night I probably would have just used my mayor right away.

Vigs, why did you all target Bard? That was silly.

[BahamutFlare]

So is Black Network town or scum? Or their own group?

However, we have 2 mafia still. Even if this black network is scum and outnumbers town by the time mafia is gone, I'd still say we gotta get rid of the mafia first.

Moogle, only IHMN is confirmed townie. The rest of you could be self-aligned or something else or town. You are not mafia. That is what you are confirmed of.

[Sifright]

So bahamut is also Black network as well then, as his proposed strategy would be a losing one for town so just peachy, they are a scum faction and they are the dominant power, the best action is to vote stalemate so neither side gets a kill and hope town has some more kill powers to take care black network and redwizards. We have eight players, 3-4 of them black network. 2-3 town and 2 mafia. So bahamut if you aren't Black network helping them is only going to lead to your factions downfall.

Vote:dracorion

[Gregness]

God, all the fireworks happen while I'm away.

So, Bard is 100% a red wizard, IHMN is 100% town, there's at LEAST one more red wizard, but where are you all getting this Black Network stuff from? Did someone PO claim with information on one of the last few pages? I thought I read everything pretty thoroughly but I didn't see anything to that effect.

FoS: Bard So's not to have a vote quick-hammered to end the day.

[IHateMakingNames]

Sifright is Lallara.

[Moogle0119]

So is Black Network town or scum? Or their own group?

However, we have 2 mafia still. Even if this black network is scum and outnumbers town by the time mafia is gone, I'd still say we gotta get rid of the mafia first.

Moogle, only IHMN is confirmed townie. The rest of you could be self-aligned or something else or town. You are not mafia. That is what you are confirmed of.

The only ones confirmed so far not to be Red Wizards are myself, RMB, and IHMN so we need to work off of that for further leads.

.....that's what I said though right? Don't try to insuate that I said something that I didn't. minor FoS: Bahamut.

More importantly though, I'm going to have to echo Gregness on the Black Network stuff. Going off the wiki, the only thing I can make any sense of is Manshoon seems to be a part of them.

Edit: Going off of IHMN's latest post, if you're certain Sifright is the remaining mafiate, should we go for him or Bard at this point?

[Sifright]

.....that's what I said though right? Don't try to insuate that I said something that I didn't. minor FoS: Bahamut.

More importantly though, I'm going to have to echo Gregness on the Black Network stuff. Going off the wiki, the only thing I can make any sense of is Manshoon seems to be a part of them.

Edit: Going off of IHMN's latest post, if you're certain Sifright is the remaining mafiate, should we go for him or Bard at this point?

Oh moogle you aren't confirmed at all though, Nikose post only hints that you are town it doesn't confirm it.

[Moogle0119]

Coming from a mafiate? You should know I'm not with you guys.

Alassra Silverhand, the Simbul herself, rushed forward at Moogle. "I will end your pathetic existence, Red Wizard!" She raised her hands in rage, before her face softened. "Oh, Whoops. You're not a Red Wizard at all, are you? My apologies, sir."

[Sifright]

Yes, that doesn't stop you being scum now does it. part of the strongest scum faction no less

Edit: It's quite simple really, Town and mafia work together or Black network win. They probably will regardless tbh, but if town and mafia work together we have a chance.

[BahamutFlare]

Well goody. Sifright, that is the worst idea ever. And I'm voting Bard because guess what, he's 100% mafia. Yet you took to agreeing with my other statement and are now voting Dracorion. Meaning my proposed strategy to take out a mafiate?

Unvote: Bard
Vote: Sifright

Moogle, my bad. I read that as confirmed as town. So yes I agreed with you.

[Sifright]

No, See I am a Mafia player, as IHMN said I am the bodyguard

[Sifright]

Dracorion is part of the Black network, With Moogle and redmage black.

[IHateMakingNames]

Yeah Moogle, you aren't mafia. Red Wizard mafia. You are totally Manshoon though.

It all comes down to Gregness, and again the next night.

[Gregness]

Sifright is Lallara.

So, uh, it seems like you phrased that in a way to answer my questions, only I don't see how it does. I mean, I was asking where the black network stuff is coming from because the only stuff in the thread I can see is the black mace bit from the most recent night post and maybe the references to Manshoon from early on. I don't see how outing a Red Wizard answers any of that.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm with masons that have a PO. Red Mage Black is some guy from the Black Network. Manshoon is the leader of the Black Network. They are a second, hopefully smaller mafia group.

I hope you aren't just faking ignorance and actually are a townie, cause we kind of need that.

You should reveal your role, assuming it isn't a day power. Just in case Bard can keep doing that.

[Sifright]

Gregness wouldn't feign ignorance at this point if he was part of the black network, they would just quick hammer a vote through and win.

[BahamutFlare]

So should we go after Moogle or Sifirght?

Unvote: Sifright

I gamble with the highest odds of winning. And it seems like to even the playing field...Probably moogle, then let the night determine the winner. Probably risky as anything could change, but worth a shot. Maybe if moogle dies, the Black Network can only lynch people from now on?

[IHateMakingNames]

Games with uncertain powers are so stupid. This is why I am against not showing roles on night kills, but I didn't think Nikose was going to be giving everyone made up powers.

Bard can control another person, which I would assume has a recharge time. I doubt he can use it again, but unless having his power blocked doesn't count, it probably means he can. So even if we try and plan this all out he might just fuck it up. Since Sif is the bodyguard, I'm not sure if killing Bard means mafia loses their killing power, or if Sif can both kill someone and protect himself.

Along with this, one of the Black Network people are a misdirecter. Again, unsure of how often this power can be used. It's probably Drac, I don't think he lied about that. If he can do it again, he's also a guy we need to vote off. Much like with Red Wizards, I'm not sure if Manshoon is the killer, or if they simply get a kill as a group. Cause otherwise we'd want to vote off Moogle.

[BahamutFlare]

Maybe Draco so we don't have to worry about night kills being redirected all over the place. Cuz if there are only 2 Black Network guys, you know for sure that the black network is going to redirect a kill away from them. And town is going to be hit. It seems like a souped up Bodyguard, so I don't see why he doesn't get to use it every night. But he has to choose his targets right.

FoS: Dracorion

Probably the safest bet of losing the least amount of town roles at night. I'll vote later, but I kinda want to hear the mafia's proposed plan for this day and night.

[BahamutFlare]

Looking back on my notes, Kerensky listed all the members of the Black Network.

When I asked, if he was 100% telling the truth, Moogle, Red Mage Black, and Draco are mafia. And they kind of are.

[Sifright]

What do I think would be best,

For town I'd kill off Moogle, removing a kill power makes things easier and removes the ability for a faction to off town players.

If I was trying to force town to act in mafias best interests I'd ask for you to take out Dracorion, removing his redirect would make things a lot easier to deal with and much less unpredictable.

Either way killing one of the black network players off is a must for both Red wizards and Town as they will win for certain if we don't lynch one of them.

[Dracorion]

You know, I wouldn't trust anything Kerensky says. It says right there, plain as day, that he's a lunatic. One who took a shot in the dark in his efforts to get someone lynched.

He hinted at people other than Moogle, yes. But there were like ten people that could apply to, and you'll remember more than a few of those turned out to be Red Wizards.

More to the point, if he knew about the Black Network, why wouldn't he specifically out them as the Black Network, or at least the secret scum group?

[Sifright]

Actually everything Kerensky said made sense, we had a player in our mafia group with a similar trait only he came clean about it because he figured we had a better chance to win than town did. Hahaha Hindsight is such a bitch eh? D:

[Dracorion]

Did it? He made a lot of statements. Off the top of my head, I can tell you that what he claimed were the Black Network's powers was totally wrong. Hell, the only one he got right was bodyguard, and only because every group has that.

And yes, your Geminex example is exactly my point. If Kerensky were a turncoat, he still would've stuck with his group for having a better chance to win than townies.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Totally not scum over here guys

[Bard The 5th LW]

Also, gonna pitch in my vote.

Vote: Drac

Did I forget to mention I'm town?

[Sifright]

Also, gonna pitch in my vote.

Vote: Drac

Did I forget to mention I'm town?

This sounds entirely believable I am now assured that you are in fact town.

[IHateMakingNames]

Drac, you're going to get voted if you all don't admit to being Black Network. Going with he mafia is currently the best townie move.

[Dracorion]

Totally not scum over here guys

Wait a minute, is this a thing we can do?

Also, IHMN, that is like the worst possible method you could use to get anyone to admit anything. "If you don't own up we kill you, and if you do own up we kill you anyway for being scum. Oh, and if you're not scum and say so we won't believe you and kill you anyway."

[IHateMakingNames]

You don't necessarily get killed for confessing. I'm iffy on certain alignments and want some full confirmation. Lynching a Red Wizard today may be better.

I don't really see what you guys are trying to hide at this point.

[BahamutFlare]

The unpredictability is something that hurts both Town and mafia alike and leaves you strong. You guys control the night with that power and for anyone to stand a chance, that role seems like it has to go.

Because we don't know if the Network kills as a person or group, voting Moogle may not actually do anything other than dwindle their numbers. While voting Drac gets rid of a scum power role.

Town and mafia teaming up together, who'd have guessed this being a plausible outcome?

[Gregness]

I'm with masons that have a PO. Red Mage Black is some guy from the Black Network. Manshoon is the leader of the Black Network. They are a second, hopefully smaller mafia group.

I hope you aren't just faking ignorance and actually are a townie, cause we kind of need that.

You should reveal your role, assuming it isn't a day power. Just in case Bard can keep doing that.

So, trying to phrase this as delicately as I can here, assuming that I do have a day power how exactly would you expect me to indicate that that was the reason for my refusal without also admitting that I have one for Bard to redirect (which he then might)? Town has to tread lightly here if we hope to pull this off so I hope you can understand my caution.

[IHateMakingNames]

If you have a power just use it. If Nikose really did give Bard unlimited (More than 2) shots of power controlling then fuck him.

I also don't think it will help them even if he can. We're already on the road to lynch Drac.

[Nikose Tyris]

I think what really matters here, is careful examination of win conditions.

[Sifright]

That would help if you included a win condition in my pm.

edit : Unless the point is that you can't win?

[Sifright]

If none of us have win conditions I suggest a no lynch and no kills in the night. bodyguards use your powers.

[IHateMakingNames]

The sisters just need to kill the Red Wizards.

Vote: Bard

So, Black Network, I guess we all coo'.

[Sifright]

Welp thats game then I give up.

Vote:sifright

Not going to waste time prolonging this.

[IHateMakingNames]

I rather we go with Bard since I'm not certain what the conditions of his power are.

[BahamutFlare]

Vote: Bard

Controlling seems like such an awful thing right now.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Vote: Bard

[IHateMakingNames]

So not obvious.

Manshoon, you should probably get Sifright in the night. I don't know your win conditions but we're pretty much set if you do that so no interference from us.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I think what really matters here, is careful examination of win conditions.

We have no win condition. Or I don't. I guess that means I can't win or something?

[Nikose Tyris]

well at this point it's pretty obvious.

Also

Lauzoril Activated his Power! He turned his powers of enchantment on Gregness, to bring his ability, whatever it may, be, against IHMN!

And nothing happened!

[BahamutFlare]

If you have no win condition, it's be the last remaining most likely.

[BahamutFlare]

And wtf Bard, everyday you can abuse that? holy crap.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Its essentially infinite use. If I use it at day then I can't use it at night

My accusation of Aldurin being Manshoon was actually grounded in something close to logic. I forced him to act against Karesh N1. Karesh died. If I was right then that would have worked pretty well wouldn't it? I could just keep on forcing people's actions and then, as the alleged Watcher, I'd know what that person did.

Anyways, thats all from me, I'm sinking this ship.

Vote: Bard

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Its essentially infinite use. If I use it at day then I can't use it at night

My accusation of Aldurin being Manshoon was actually grounded in something close to logic. I forced him to act against Karesh N1. Karesh died. If I was right then that would have worked pretty well wouldn't it? I could just keep on forcing people's actions and then, as the alleged Watcher, I'd know what that person did.

Anyways, thats all from me, I'm sinking this ship.

Vote: Bard

Did you ever consider that multiple people might have targeted me?

[Bard The 5th LW]

It was a risk I was willing to take.

[BahamutFlare]

Did you ever consider that multiple people might have targeted me?

You mean that guy that looks kinda like you?

Also the mason thing could always be a possibility too. Which proved his innocence until mafia killed him. However, as a mafia strategy, Bard I gotta hand it to you, that's pretty sweet.

[IHateMakingNames]

I was forcing him to role claim. He had a pretty decent lead and diversion. Unfortunately it was a Sister.

Manshoon, Sifright, lay down the mace. Then we'll vote whatever if the game isn't over.

[Bard The 5th LW]

If my role actually worked like it was supposed to, then I would have just forced you to mayor RMB to death and end the discussion early.

e: Actually, before Nik even posted that it failed, all he told me over PM was "Power wasted" thus I assumed your power was invalid, and that you were bluffing. After Nik's post, I figured that you actually had it and just had some sort of invincibility.

[IHateMakingNames]

As I said, it was bullshit that the bodyguard lasted into the day.

But your power is like 20x that amount of bullshit, so whatever.

[Nikose Tyris]

Kay so there's enough votes, let's do this shit

Bard, Lauzoril, is dead, hung by his own entrails from the town gate.

NIGHT FALLS.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I died the way I lived.

[Nikose Tyris]

Horribly mutilated, and too grotesque to stare directly at?

[Aldurin]

At least you got the dignity of a proper democracy-driven lynch, thanks for denying me that.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I died the way I lived, too.

[Kerensky287]

So that's how many people now who have self-voted to the point of lynch this game?

[Fenris]

stop posting at night

[Nikose Tyris]

THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE NIGHT:

Lallara Mediocros defended herself, but found time to direct the last of the Zulkir's mafia kill power through KareshWithAMoustache's skull, ending the life of Dove Falconhand, Town Aligned investigator, Third Sister!

Fzoul Chembryl walked confidently up to Alustriel Silverhand, Second Sister. "Isn't it delightful what careful planning can bring about?" He asked her with a smile, before swinging his dreadful and pitted black iron mace, and bringing it down upon her head.
IHMN, Leader of the Seven Sisters and Second Sister, Town Aligned, is dead.

Manshoon rose up in the night, acting independently of Fzoul's dictate, and moved to end the life of BahamutFlare. BahamutFlare, however, is not so easily slain.


GAME STILL ON. It's still anybody's win here.

DAY 5.

4 TO LYNCH.

[Sifright]

Vote:Bahamutflare

[Dracorion]

Interesting.

[Moogle0119]

Vote:Bahamutflare
Do you really think that's gonna work?

[BahamutFlare]

Vote: Sifright

Let's finish off the last Red Wizard. Why are there 3 kills left at this point of the game?

[Sifright]

because the blacknetwork seems to have two kills town has none and red wizards have one. I think the Blacknetwork wincondition is to take out the town or else they would have targeted me during the night. I also think who ever hits their win condition first wins outright.

So blacknetwork it's your call do you kill me with the lynch and make town win losing yourself or do you vote for a townie?

[Gregness]

So, trying to phrase this as delicately as I can here, assuming that I do have a day power how exactly would you expect me to indicate that that was the reason for my refusal without also admitting that I have one for Bard to redirect (which he then might)? Town has to tread lightly here if we hope to pull this off so I hope you can understand my caution.

well at this point it's pretty obvious.

Also

Lauzoril Activated his Power! He turned his powers of enchantment on Gregness, to bring his ability, whatever it may, be, against IHMN!

And nothing happened!

lt4329_W_s0#t=7s

[Moogle0119]

Well, I doubt any lynch will work against Bahamut at this point though since he'll just keep protecting himself. Hey Sif, how do you feel about winning with us?

[Gregness]

What? I'm pretty sure nothing helps vs a lynch.

[Sifright]

I think winning with you guys would be pretty sweet I guess. I mean I've no reason to attack you.

[BahamutFlare]

Ok so this may be me talking to myself as last townie left...

So Let's just put the options out there. Gregness is Black Network or another SK. Either way, I bet he has a kill power. I'm guessing Black Network with kill power because of him not being targeted. Rather it seemed pretty systematic of the targets being placed.

Sifright can't win unless Black Network is dead, so there is no way to have a tie between you two unless Black Network's win condition is different. So Moogle, your plan doesn't work. I'm pretty sure my identity is known now, so the best course of action is to kill Sifright today. And after that, Black Network can say they made it through the game with their entire mason group. Heck Black Network. You may as well put it out there how you win. It's not like you guys are being lynched or night killed anytime soon. I'm just curious.

[Moogle0119]

Sif what exactly is your win condition/powers? I already know yours Bahamut due to IHMN's reaction yesterday as well as your team's sudden change of heart.

Edit: I know you have protective/BG powers but can you keep doing it? What about night kills? Because if you still can act, we'll make sure we don't redirect anything you do tonight.

[Sifright]

Nope I found out yesterday that my wincondition is all of the seven sisters being dead. Which actually reminds me.

Unvote:bahumatflare

Vote:Gregness

as he is the last sister and baha is elminster.

The rest of your plan is bupkiss, if I die town wins straight away and it's a loss for blacknetwork.

Edit: Wincondition = All seven sisters dead. My powers are night kill and Protection.

Double edit: the win condition wasn't included in my role PM and my faction leader never mentioned it I had to ask Nikose and found out after town went for bard.

[Moogle0119]

Sif, do YOU personally (or any of the Red Wizards) have to be the one to kill off the last of the seven sisters though? If so we'll make sure to redirect Bahamut's power tonight so he stops protecting himself.

Oh btw, Greg is with us. Bahamut is the remaining sister.

[Sifright]

Unvote:gregness
Vote:bahamutflare

Not as far as i'm aware they just have to be dead. What exactly is your win condition?

[Gregness]

*sigh*

God dammit Moogle, stealing my thunder... razza frazzin...

*ahem*

IGqwqxRF598

I am Manshoon! of the Black Network!

[BahamutFlare]

Lol figured. Gregness, no idea you were Manshoon, but figured you were Black Network today.

Black Network, why don't you kill Sifright who has a kill power with a lynch then kill me at night by redirecting my action and then shooting me up? Since you guys have the power to do both. Why do you need Sifright's help?

[Gregness]

Basically, we're not sure if the game ends instantly once you or sif dies.

[BahamutFlare]

Sifright, there can be more than one winner, so I doubt their plan is bupkiss. If that's the case, Black Network can't win. How do they kill us both at once?

I wish our kill powers got handed down. I wanna kill at night. I'd have raised my .6666 Vig rating.

Give a faction with no enemies 2 kills a night. really?

Can Black Network not vote? I don't think I've seen any of them vote. Sifright. Wanna try voting for Gregness and see where night takes us? If there is a night if me and you agree on a vote?

[BahamutFlare]

Actually Let's vote for Dracorion so you can kill whoever you want at night.

[BahamutFlare]

They have voted. Therefore, my idea I think is moot. Oh well. Black Network, isn't your ideal solution to vote no lynch then?

[Moogle0119]

I'm Fzoul Chembryl - Mafia Don of the Black Network. I'm surprised we lasted this long with Kerensky going AWOL and outting me completely and leaving major hints to the rest of us and with all the other power roles that there were. Because I can't be bothered to find out how to link to a specific time, start 8 seconds in....

7edeOEuXdMU#t=0m8s

Minus Kerensky doing what he did before I honestly even knew the game had started, everything worked out smoothly.

CWILhrSzw5o

Sif, help us kill Bahamut tonight and we'll guarantee you a win.

Vote: No Lynch

[BahamutFlare]

You don't need him for killing me unless you only got 1 kill power left. You'll target him at night. I bet Moogle's kill was a 1 shot. And you're all used up. This way you'll kill us both at the same time. You're bluffing Moogle.

Sifright, wanna mess with the Black Network and make them angry? Kill yourself at this night cycle or now if you can. They gotta kill us both at the same time apparently. And I have no kill potential but a vote. So it's up to you Sifright. They aren't going to let you live this night.

[Sifright]

Okay.
Unvote:bahamutflare

Vote:No Lynch

[Moogle0119]

Don't you dare side with him Sif, you'll ruin everything.

[BahamutFlare]

Aww Moogle, don't get mad.

[Moogle0119]

What's it going to be Sif? Us or Bahamut? Who's side are you on? If you're with us just target Bahamut tonight and we're guaranteeing you a win. C'mon don't be ridiculous and listen to Bahamut, he's just trying to make you lose.

[Red Mage Black]

I'm not getting mad because of anything, but I've gone over this situation so many times in my head. There is no way that this game can be won by any faction at this point. Since no one will surrender to let another faction win, this game will go for infinity.

The Black Network isn't willing to allow either the Sisters or Red Wizards to claim victory.
The last Sister isn't willing to give up to allow the BN to win.
The last Red Wizard isn't willing to allow either.

Too bad this can and probably will go on forever, but let me pose this question to the rest of you: If you were part of the faction that survived through the game because of sheer luck, would you really want to keel over for factions that only have 1 surviving member each? This stalemate really is frustrating. Hope Nik is having fun putting his trollface on.

EDIT: Ninja'd by 4 minutes by Moogle.

Well, I can't entirely say that prospect is a bad one. After all, it's not like our factions are enemies.

[Nikose Tyris]

Night will fall at 8PM Tonight.

If my staple wounds stop hurting. [I had them out today, everybody. It feels good to be 40% recovered.]

[Sifright]

explain your win condition like quote it out of the PM, i'll decide what to do then.

[BahamutFlare]

Nice Nikose.

Anyway, as a Black Network member would think and they have shown how they need to win.

Option 1) Survival: Vote Sifright and kill me at night.

Option 2) Kill everyone at once: Vote No Lynch and manipulate Sifright to do their bidding. Which is what seems most likely at the time.

Sifright, do what you want. I just don't think that you have any reason to believe Moogle. Apparently they need you. Moogle is the leader. Gregness is the Manshoon former leader with killing powers. Draco can redirect. RMB is who knows. This is your information Sif. Do what you want with it. Don't be manipulated. Do what is your best course of action not theirs. They are going for option 2 most likely, so don't assume you are safe.

[Moogle0119]

Well the PM says that we win when we are get rid of all masoned groups so don't worry about us killing you off. Are you with us or not?

[Sifright]

Yea if they don't give me reason not to i'm going to protect you during the night and kill dracorion, because it sounds like they need a double kill to win as both of us can protect our selves they can't win unless they kill us both based on RMBs post. So I want more information from black network otherwise I'll make sure you can't win.

[Moogle0119]

We're not going to kill you, Bahamut is lying don't listen to him.

[Sifright]

Well the PM says that we win when we are get rid of all masoned groups so don't worry about us killing you off. Are you with us or not?

So you win when you kill both red wizards and town got ya. Bahamut use your guard power on your self I'll do the same if they kill me you win.

[BahamutFlare]

For me, my only chance of winning is let the chips fall where they may and hope I win the Lotto. lol.

It's also funny that the 2 defensive roles of the 7 person masons are alive. 1 has kill powers too.

Can you guard yourself and kill someone Sif? How does a Mafia Don + Bodyguard work? or whatever your second role is?

[BahamutFlare]

Second thought, just keep that to yourself Sif. Tell me after the game though. I'm curious about the mechanics.

[Dracorion]

Okay? We done here?

Vote: No lynch.

[Sifright]

Unvote:No lynch

Vote:Dracorion

because dicerole.

[Dracorion]

You know, we all wouldn't be in this mess if Bahamut hadn't been a selfish jerk and he had just bodyguarded one of his teammates.

[Nikose Tyris]

27 minutes.

[Nikose Tyris]

Wow, it's a good thing I googled to double check. Cause I was gonna lynch Drac.

NO LYNCH DAY because apparently it's the majority voiced opinion.

NIGHT FALLS.

[Nikose Tyris]

DAY OPENS.

Nothing happened last night! EVERY ACTION FAILED.

Maybe that reveals relevant new information.

[Gregness]

Awhelp, guess we've gotta do it this way then.

Vote: Sifright

[Gregness]

DAY OPENS.

Nothing happened last night! EVERY ACTION FAILED.

Maybe that reveals relevant new information.

I'd say that the information is that you're a jerk, but while that's relevant it's not new.

[Dracorion]

What, really?

Why didn't you target me, Sif? I'm so hurt.

[BahamutFlare]

I wanted the flavor of who had to defend who off.

Vote: Sifright

This night probably only revealed new info to the Black Network.

[Nikose Tyris]

BahamutFlare fended off Fzoul Chembryl and Lallara, and laughed scornfully at [CONTROLLER].

Sifright blocked Manshoon and kicked him in the shin.

[Dracorion]

Can you target powers at dead people? Storm Silverhand's power, in particular?

[BahamutFlare]

I attempted to kill Hawk when he was dead. And it failed. I'm not sure if it was because I didn't have the power. Or the fact that he was ya know...dead. Probably both equally.

[Red Mage Black]

Lets not prolong the inevitable, shall we?

Vote: Sifright

[Dracorion]

Actually, Black Network dudes?

Masons are defined as a town-aligned group, unless Nikose has a different definition.

So assuming that is correct... the course of action most likely to end in an formal win for us is to kill Bahamut.

Vote: BahamutFlare.

[Moogle0119]

Greg or RMB, one of you take your votes off of Sif. I want to hear Nikose first before we vote.

[BahamutFlare]

Black Network, you guys are masoned together. You need to kill yourselves? If you had to just kill town, then your goal would be 7 sisters. Not masoned groups. Therefore, I think you need to kill mafia also. Also, note on the plural of groups.

[Dracorion]

... Why does it say below your name that you only have five posts?

Our of everything in your post, that's the part that stuck out to me.

[BahamutFlare]

Forum games don't count towards post counts I guess. The 5 I did were in other forums. This is my best guess. I'm also a wizard in real life. ;)

[Gregness]

I'm 90% sure that "masoned groups" are anyone that has the ability to PM their members.

but, whatever

unvote: Sifright

[Moogle0119]

I'm pretty much thinking the same Greg, however we might as well play it safe and wait til Nikose confirms (we CAN keep doing this for days, until either Bahamut or Sif decides to give up after all). If it is we can just lynch off whichever one is easiest for us.

[BahamutFlare]

I'm pretty much thinking the same Greg, however we might as well play it safe and wait til Nikose confirms (we CAN keep doing this for days, until either Bahamut or Sif decides to give up after all). If it is we can just lynch off whichever one is easiest for us.

Moogle moogle moogle, you CAN keep doing this for days, but then we can never play adventure time mafia. We can go infinite day/night cycles with no lynch and you guys can't do anything. Just for saying that you can do this for as many days as you want...I really want to vote you based on principle.

Also lynching the person that's easiest. It'd be Sifright. I already put my vote on him. Only 2 more of you need to put a vote on him and the game ends. Theoretically, both of us have equal power during the day. You'll never kill us both at once, and games can have multiple winners. So you choose whether town and BN wins, or mafia and BN. It just takes another lynch day. I bet Nikose would say nearly the same thing.

Sifright, I told you that they would attempt to kill you. :)

[Nikose Tyris]

What exactly are you waiting to hear from me for?

It's now become explicit information that the Seven Sisters, and the Red Wizards, are both mason groups, Moogle0119.

[Sifright]

Vote:bahamutflare

[Moogle0119]

Vote: Bahamutflare

[Dracorion]

What exactly are you waiting to hear from me for?

It's now become explicit information that the Seven Sisters, and the Red Wizards, are both mason groups, Moogle0119.

But then, who's the mafia?!

OH SHIT GUYS I FIGURED IT OUT NIKOSE IS THE MAFIA OH GOD.

Daykill: Dracorion

[Red Mage Black]

Un-Vote: Sifright

Vote: Bahamut

[Nikose Tyris]

Hm. There are now 4 votes on the final townie in the game. I do believe that ends this, then.


BAHAMUTFLARE, STORM SILVERHAND, BARD OF SHADOWDALE, HAS FINALLY FALLEN. The Seven Sisters are defeated, bringing about the victory of the Red Wizards!

RED WIZARD VICTORY.

Thanks for playing!

[Geminex]

Wait, that's it?

[Nikose Tyris]

Well I'm switching to my laptop to post roles and shit, but, yeah, pretty much.

I mean, open Q&A time and criticism of my terrible awful overpowered game but whatevs.

[Geminex]

Just cause, y'know, at least declare the black guys co-winners or something. They kinda earned it. And they totally could have ended up fullfilling their win condition.

[Nikose Tyris]

They could have, if their inspector/PO role hadn't suicidebombed day 1, and they hadn't left the bodyguards alive to the end. :P

[Geminex]

Nah, I mean, they could've lynched Bahamut next turn, and remained as the sole survivors. Why not give them that?

[IHateMakingNames]

I don't really like the tone of NPF mafia games. People GM games to make up silly powers and twists. The games boil down to dealing with the GM, roles, or the rules instead of dealing with the other players. They're Bastard games.

Black Network didn't really earn much. Just happened to never get killed, and Nikose specifically kept them hidden because he labeled Kerensky as a Lunatic instead of Black Network. People knew of the second mafia but weren't focusing on it since I made that big ol' speel.

I'm also annoyed with Day 3, since I could have just mayored Bard and made it easy, but I hate how long nights take so I was just really hoping Bard's power wasn't that broken.

[Nikose Tyris]

They easily could have, but this is pretty much exactly how I'd written this game to go down.

[Red Mage Black]

Yeah, it's kind of too bad. I suggested offing Bahamut on Night 1, which Drac and Greg rejected because of him being a Kerensky supporter, but that would have been easily played off. On Night 2, I suggested Sifright, but I also don't remember why they rejected that one, too. I did say that Bahamut would become a problem later, guys.

[Nikose Tyris]

Nights take long because I am a big whiny baby that's supposed to be on bed rest until the 14th, and every time I sit up to do anything I hurt like I can't even describe.

[Dracorion]

Black Network didn't really earn much. Just happened to never get killed, and Nikose specifically kept them hidden because he labeled Kerensky as a Lunatic instead of Black Network. People knew of the second mafia but weren't focusing on it since I made that big ol' speel.

Kerensky's labeling as a lunatic was Moogle's power, actually. It was quite handy.

[IHateMakingNames]

That's slightly better I guess. That power being usable at day is silly. Roles that mess with the lynch, in mafia favor, shouldn't exist since it's supposed to be the town's main weapon. Given, these games are all about the night roles, so the lynch really isn't that important.

[Dracorion]

It's passive, actually.

Basically, whenever a Black Network member died, they'd show up as whatever was more beneficial for us. Until Moogle died, then we'd all show up as Black Network.

[Gregness]

Vote:bahamutflare

Vote: Bahamutflare

Un-Vote: Sifright

Vote: Bahamut


Hm. There are now 4 votes on the final townie in the game. I do believe that ends this, then.


BAHAMUTFLARE, STORM SILVERHAND, BARD OF SHADOWDALE, HAS FINALLY FALLEN. The Seven Sisters are defeated, bringing about the victory of the Red Wizards!

RED WIZARD VICTORY.

Thanks for playing!

Man, fuck you guys (Moogle and RMB).

[Dracorion]

Hey, I voted Bahamut too!

And we would've lost too if we'd lynched Sifright instead. Would've just been a townie victory.

And there is some humor in the worst faction in the game getting the win completely by accident.

[IHateMakingNames]

Well then it's back to being just stupid.

Town basically did have no chance in this game. Though Mayoring Bard on Day 3 would have probably done it.

[Dracorion]

Blame Nikose. Like this:

Nikooooooossseeeeeeeee!!!! :argh:

[Geminex]

Nikooooooossseeeeeeeee!!!! :argh:

.

[Gregness]

Hey, I voted Bahamut too!

And we would've lost too if we'd lynched Sifright instead. Would've just been a townie victory.

And there is some humor in the worst faction in the game getting the win completely by accident.

I suppose, but that's the point. Town deserved the win WAY more than the Red Wizards.

Edit: Town dudes, that last day that IHMN said he was hoping I wasn't faking the confusion, did you guys really think I was still town?

[IHateMakingNames]

Not really. I was kind of hoping, but even if you were townie, the Black Network still had the advantage. It was irrelevant unless you had some good role for town.

[Gregness]

Also, was the entire town masoned? I kind of had a hunch you all were to make up for there being two big mafias.

[Geminex]

BTW, IHMN, what was up with that guesswork? You pegged quite a few of us.

[Moogle0119]

I'm just surprised we survived at all considering we had a traitor who outed me as the mafia don D1 and gave hints as to the rest of us. Luckily I actually wasn't around and didn't even know the game had started, but the thing had resolved itself anyway. In that manner, I'm pretty happy with the way things turned out even though we didn't get the win (see Sif, told ya we weren't going to kill you).

[IHateMakingNames]

Seven Sisters were masoned. Then six Red Wizards and five Black Network. So whatever was left was unmasoned Townies. The only one I remember was Ravansk because he was Drizzt. And Karesh when he was SK was SK.

When I was told I was in a seven man townie mason, I knew either there were three factions, or we had a traitor. Turns out it was both.


Gem, when there are a ton of powers, it's easy to figure out who is who. Though the 7 man mason group and my Mayor stunt helped a lot.

[Geminex]

Gem, when there are a ton of powers, it's easy to figure out who is who.

Fair 'nuff.

Speaking of traitors, it was actually my objective to take out Fenris. I actually did a bit of behind-the-scenes stuff leading up to that, so I'm kinda happy.

[Gregness]

Also, Black Network was able to peg a lot of you dudes just by going after people with suspiciously low activity levels. It's how we pegged Fenris and Hawk N1 and you on a later night.

[Moogle0119]

Speaking of traitors, it was actually my objective to take out Fenris. I actually did a bit of behind-the-scenes stuff leading up to that, so I'm kinda happy.
Apparently Kerensky received the same sort of role, however he went about things.....differently....

[IHateMakingNames]

Aldurin was our traitor.

Kerensky played the role the correct way. Ignore your listed faction (Black Network) and play by your real one (townie). But I guess naming members was the GM Killing limit, not every other thing he did to betray his "faction". Another reason I benched my idea of three factions to focus on the Red Wizards.

Alignment changing roles are probably the worst. It's the reason why Cult is terrible.

[Red Mage Black]

Kerensky's execution was pretty horrible. Though he did admit that he didn't know his objectives were two entirely separate things. Nik did say that he should have made me the traitor and I know I would have gone about it way differently than Kerensky did. You know, like actually investigating and proving to you guys that Bahamut and Sif NEEDED to be taken out.

[Geminex]

Also, Black Network was able to peg a lot of you dudes just by going after people with suspiciously low activity levels. It's how we pegged Fenris and Hawk N1 and you on a later night.
Figures. I was more active in scumchat during days 1 and 2. Then Fenris got lynched/suicided on day 2 and my win condition was fullfilled, so my activity dropped even more.

[Moogle0119]

Kerensky played the role the correct way. Ignore your listed faction (Black Network) and play by your real one (townie). But I guess naming members was the GM Killing limit, not every other thing he did to betray his "faction". Another reason I benched my idea of three factions to focus on the Red Wizards

And yet Kerensky was the first one to die and didn't even end up getting a win in the end with us anyway. Hell at least Geminex survived past Fenris dying, but regardless I hate the whole "traitor" role anyway.

[Geminex]

Yeah, traitors are kinda silly.

Though speaking of which, I thought Kerensky was just making the "I turn vig!" thing up to get moogle lynched faster. Cause I just won when Fenris died, I didn'T switch sides.

[Nikose Tyris]

Kerensky did not have an alignment changing role. He was still required to seek a Black Network Win.

[IHateMakingNames]

Then Kerensky played it horribly. Though based on people's knowledge of their win condition, he probably didn't know that.

[Red Mage Black]

Which, as stated, he didn't know until he was actually lynched. Shouldn't it have been imperative to ask about your objectives if they're confusing? Geez, sorry to say, but I probably could have fulfilled both objectives without my team knowing my real role.

[Geminex]

Well, he didn't have much of a choice, really. He wanted to kill moogs quickly. He didn't have a killrole, so he had to get him lynched. He outed himself and moogle, hoping that town would act on the information and lynch moogs. He didn't care what happened afterwards, cause he'd have won at that point. He said he'd turn vig, so town wouldn't lynch him first to test his claim.

And honestly, it does seem like it would've made sense for town to lynch moogle, since, other than "lyncher", it would've been hard to explain kerensky's activity any other way.

I mean, it wasn'T great, but it wasn't terrible.

Edit: Whaddya mean, RMB? Kerensky didn't know that he had to get moogle killed?

[Gregness]

How buffed were those Bodyguard roles? I mean, the game wouldn't have stalemated if they simply weren't allowed to target themselves.

[Nikose Tyris]

pretty standard fare bodyguard, with Storm being able to protect from the controller effect, but Lallara not [since the RW team was already fairly overbuffed.]

[Moogle0119]

Or, ya know....be able to protect AND still control the mafia's kill (Sif).

[Gregness]

or to be able to protect from more than one kill a night which is not typical bodyguard fare either.

[Nikose Tyris]

Pretty typical in any game I've ever played in.

[Geminex]

Out of curiosity, how many games have you played in? Cause I kinda thought you'd know what you were doing.

[Nikose Tyris]

A fair number. At least two dozen.

And I enjoyed myself, which I figure is the real prize here.

[Geminex]

Fair enough.

But, y'know. Next time you make a game for your own enjoyment, could you tell us, please? Then we (or, at least, I), wouldn't come in expecting a fun game, and I could probably go somewhere else to play mafia.

[IHateMakingNames]

And I enjoyed myself, which I figure is the real prize here.
GM enjoyment isn't really the goal of a mafia game.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm feeling fairly confident this was a generally well-received game, and that most people expected it to be stupid overpowered on the terms that, well, I'm pretty sure people stated as much in the signup thread. [Moogle in particular].

Game fit to theme.

[Gregness]

Eh, I dunno until the stalemate bullshit at the end I thought it was pretty fun.

[Moogle0119]

I'm feeling fairly confident this was a generally well-received game, and that most people expected it to be stupid overpowered on the terms that, well, I'm pretty sure people stated as much in the signup thread. [Moogle in particular].

Game fit to theme.


In

Really?

[Geminex]

I dunno. Most of the mafiates suicided, or wanted to suicide. The Black faction kinda got cheated out of their win. And town never really had that much of a chance in the first place. Is there anyone who would want to play a game like this again?

And come on. "You should all have expected a badly designed game from me because some people apparently expected it" is not a valid excuse for actually setting up a badly designed game.

Edit: Fixed my language, sorry bout that.

[IHateMakingNames]

It's the tone of NPF mafia games. People want to GM because they thought of roles or twists that they'd think would be fun to watch in mafia. Watch being the key word.

Hence why I'm not signing up for Bard's game.

[Moogle0119]

Yeah I just thought it was kinda crappy that although we could control the lynch at the end and continue the stalemate until Nikose decided to just end the game, that in the end we had to pick either Bahamut or Sif to kill off and give the other team the win. Yeah you can always say "Well geez, you should've killed off the BGs first" but still I'd rather SOMEONE get a win than the game stalemate out and go into Entropy.

[Gregness]

High power =\= crappy but I'm curious why you all wanted to suicide? I mean, not having the context of reading your PM's but it didn't seem like you guys had anything to hate.

Which reminds me RE: fun. I actually REALLY hated D1 'cause of Kerensky's shenanigans, but that was as much Kerensky playing his role terribly as it was anything else so whatever.

[Nikose Tyris]

Huh. I could have sworn you were the one who was joking and saying that It was an FR mafia, and therefore would be overpowered and bullshit, as standard for FR. My mistake and apologies, Moogs.


Edit: Ehhhh after thinking about it, yeah okay, Black Network can have this win too.

Cause yeah the double Bodyguard thing, Kerensky as inspector was actually supposed to take care of rooting those guys out earlier.

Also Bahamut could only protect Sister-Masons and himself.

[Gregness]

It's the tone of NPF mafia games. People want to GM because they thought of roles or twists that they'd think would be fun to watch in mafia. Watch being the key word.

Hence why I'm not signing up for Bard's game.

That's why I think Fenris' Fuck You mafia might actually be a pretty good thing to keep around to let people get that sort of thing out of their system. They can beta test roles they've created and if it turns out to be bullshit well, it's a fuck you mafia the whole thing is bullshit.

[Nikose Tyris]

Also I invented Fuck You mafia, and I'm thinking that might end up being a warning sign in the future.

[Gregness]

Edit: Ehhhh after thinking about it, yeah okay, Black Network can have this win too.



LcGXR00x1ro

[Moogle0119]

No problem Nikose. Actually, after looking further I did say something along those lines, but it was on D2 in the game here so you weren't far off actually.

Regarding Day 1, wow.

While I know absolutely nothing about the FR setting (other than it's D&D and it's usually referred to as the high-powered setting (I preferred Eberron more myself)) it seems we have a night killer (Alassra Silverhand, possible Vig) who has a stipulation that she will only actually perform the night kill on any of the Red Wizards. We also seem to have some sort of re-directing role or mind control role that took over Szass Tam's night kill for the Red Wizards and turned it on his own team (how else do you explain him not realizing that Hawk was NOT Ravashak until after the kill? I'm not sure). There also appears to be someone named Manshoon (no real flavor text to determine the alignment, just that he hates assassins?) who took out the the SK. And finally we have at LEAST two different night kills (no flavor text for any of the killers) that targetted IHMN who survived due to Storm Silverhand's protection (most likely a BG). So yeah, with at least 5 night kills (or 6 if you include the now dead Karesh) and lots of powers all around, sure sounds like a FR game from everything I've heard.

[Geminex]

High power =\= crappy

Gonna challenge this. Like, high power doesn't mean crappy by definition (Fen's game, for example, seemed really fun, if imbalanced, to me), but, to me, all the good bits of mafia (the discussion, the suspicion, the gradual detective work), lie in day-to-day discussion, and in the lynch. You massively reduce the importance of the lynch if you give kill roles to every faction, and you really reduce the quality of the discussion if you mess around with the factions too much. 3 masoned factions really doesn't provoke much of any discussion.

Admittedly, the value of the night activity was reduced by the redirection and protection available, but it still was more of a nighttime clusterfuck than anything else.

but I'm curious why you all wanted to suicide? I mean, not having the context of reading your PM's but it didn't seem like you guys had anything to hate.
Ask them yourselves. It was mostly either frustration or disinterest, as far as I could tell. Though really, I might be misremembering. I shouldn't be airing others' grievances for them.

I will point out that Fen suicided, and Bard and Sif voted for themselves, at least once, I think.

But anyway, yeah. This game was probably even more fuck-you-mafia-ish than fuck-you-mafia is. And i'm not saying that this kinda game can't be fun. FU mafia is pretty hilarious at times. But if I go in expecting an intelligent mafia game and take it semi-seriously, I kinda get annoyed when it ends up being... well, silly.

BUT ANYWAY

CHEESE

I LIKE CHEESE

[IHateMakingNames]

I assumed my Mayor thing is what got some Red Wizards disinterested in the game. Which is why I cut it short.

[Kerensky287]

Okay, so now that I finally have a chance to defend my actions...

Nikose's role PM to me had the following exact wording: "You also have an additional win condition, kill Moogle, the Mafia Don."

See, when I read that, I assume it means I can either stick with Mafia to win, or kill Moogle to win. A win condition means "the condition under which you win," so additional win condition, to me, meant that I had two options for victory.

What pisses me off is that not only did Nikose send an unclear role PM, but after the game, he also called me an idiot for making the mistake. I would have played COMPLETELY differently if he had used different wording (ie. You also have an additional OBJECTIVE) or just made it clear that I needed to do both.

He also never told me that we would all investigate as town. What I said in my opening rant was 90% true; I suspected a crapton of powers of the imbalanced variety, and figured that being mafia would be a huge danger. My plan was to win Day 1 and avoid the inevitable dragons and magic bullshit I was certain would be present.

So I was a lynch role, Hawk nailed it. But I was apparently more than that, too.

Also, Nikose is a pathological liar who kept telling me shit about the game that turned out to be completely false, without actually having any more reason to lie to me. He said Black Network could win at the same time as another faction, for example, and if he just changed his mind arbitrarily... Well, that's kinda fucked up. (This was after I died btw)

[Aldurin]

Nikose, get those roles posted, I have some serious complaints about the special details of mine.

[Geminex]

See, when I read that, I assume it means I can either stick with Mafia to win, or kill Moogle to win. A win condition means "the condition under which you win," so additional win condition, to me, meant that I had two options for victory.
That's the way it was for me. I could either kill Fenris, OR I could win with mafia. I asked again, and he clarified.

Edit:
Here's the clarification:
You have two win conditions: Kill Fenris, and/or Win with Mafia. You can acheive a double victory. If Fenris dies, you will become the new mafia don, as well.

[Gregness]

Okay, so now that I finally have a chance to defend my actions...

Nikose's role PM to me had the following exact wording: "You also have an additional win condition, kill Moogle, the Mafia Don."

See, when I read that, I assume it means I can either stick with Mafia to win, or kill Moogle to win. A win condition means "the condition under which you win," so additional win condition, to me, meant that I had two options for victory.

What pisses me off is that not only did Nikose send an unclear role PM, but after the game, he also called me an idiot for making the mistake. I would have played COMPLETELY differently if he had used different wording (ie. You also have an additional OBJECTIVE) or just made it clear that I needed to do both.

He also never told me that we would all investigate as town. What I said in my opening rant was 90% true; I suspected a crapton of powers of the imbalanced variety, and figured that being mafia would be a huge danger. My plan was to win Day 1 and avoid the inevitable dragons and magic bullshit I was certain would be present.

So I was a lynch role, Hawk nailed it. But I was apparently more than that, too.

Also, Nikose is a pathological liar who kept telling me shit about the game that turned out to be completely false, without actually having any more reason to lie to me. He said Black Network could win at the same time as another faction, for example, and if he just changed his mind arbitrarily... Well, that's kinda fucked up. (This was after I died btw)

No, see Kerensky, with that exact wording you're not getting any sympathy from me. An additional win condition means you have to satisfy both. Like, I don't know if you've had a logic class, but additional specifies an AND not an OR.

So: Condition1 ^ Condition2. Not: Condition1 v Condition2

(I don't bring up the logic part as an attack, but to give context for the above notation.

[Dracorion]

I think the ongoing discussion can all easily be summarized as...

Nikooooooossseeeeeeeee!!!! :argh:

[Aldurin]

It seems Nikose was getting off on giving half the people alternate win conditions. Mine was to somehow orchestrate the death of the other Sisters, with no powers. And that was completely impossible to start doing once IHMN took the whole game hostage.

[Moogle0119]

Damn Kerensky, why'd you do it man? Last game we were lovers and now you stab me in the back like that? I JUMPED OFF A BRIDGE FOR YOU!!! *runs off crying*

[Geminex]

It seems Nikose was getting off on giving half the people alternate win conditions. Mine was to somehow orchestrate the death of the other Sisters, with no powers. And that was completely impossible to start doing once IHMN took the whole game hostage.

All the other sisters? Jesus.

I mean, I was gonna gloat about how I'm clearly best at betraying my allies (because obviously that's a point of pride), but at least I had a chance at fullfilling my condition. If Kerensky really had to kill moogle but still win with his faction, he was screwed, and if you had to outlive all 6 sisters, you were screwed sextuply.

[Kerensky287]

No, see Kerensky, with that exact wording you're not getting any sympathy from me. An additional win condition means you have to satisfy both. Like, I don't know if you've had a logic class, but additional specifies an AND not an OR.

So: Condition1 ^ Condition2. Not: Condition1 v Condition2

(I don't bring up the logic part as an attack, but to give context for the above notation.

I wasn't looking at Additional. I was looking at Win Condition.

That phrase means that under these conditions, you win. If I have two win conditions, that means I have two sets of conditions that winn each result in my victory.

Yes I could have asked for clarification but I thought the wording was abundantly clear. I wouldn't have taken such a risk d1 otherwise.

[BahamutFlare]

If town had a little more offense, we may have been able to pull off a win. Every day went to a lynch against scum. Minus the day control crap. It was 7 vs 12. I wish Black Network had an enemy. Because mafia and town had no reason to kill them.

Also, thank you Gregness for wanting a town win. Town needed a few more kill roles to offset mafia and BN having a lot more. Also Ryanderman and TDK were MIA. At least Karesh killed TDK.

Also, I was voting for Moogle D1 not believing that Kerensky would turn, but he did answer everything I wanted to know correctly. And I promised I would if he gave a decent answer.

I had fun, but wish that there were a few less kill roles or make it so that they had some sort of limit.

Final thought: Screw you RMB for wanting to kill me N1. I'm hurt.

[Fenris]

Hahaha holy shit, we won? Ace playing, Sifright.

[Dracorion]

Ace got nothing to do with it.

We flipped a coin.

[Geminex]

Hahaha holy shit, we won? Ace playing, Sifright.

Yeah, it was more luck than anything.
Not that Sifright didn't do well.

was 7 vs 12. I wish Black Network had an enemy. Because mafia and town had no reason to kill them.
This is silly, though. Black Network wasn't on our the mafia side. It was 7 vs. 5 vs. 6. Black network had two enemies, town and mafia. Their advantage lay in the fact that they could hide their existence. Town had the mayor, and the most numbers but no redirect. Mafia had two kills and a powerful redirect, but both factions targeted them first. Black network was more reliant on not being found out, which wasn't really hard. I'm not gonna say it was balanced or imbalanced either way, but the BN and RW certainly weren't on the same side, or gunning exclusively for town. So suggesting that town should have gotten more kill roles to counter the combined strength of the two other factions is kinda silly.

[Kerensky287]

Damn Kerensky, why'd you do it man? Last game we were lovers and now you stab me in the back like that? I JUMPED OFF A BRIDGE FOR YOU!!! *runs off crying*

I KNOW I FEEL HORRIBLE

Next game I promise I won't vote for you or anything :C

All the other sisters? Jesus.

I mean, I was gonna gloat about how I'm clearly best at betraying my allies (because obviously that's a point of pride), but at least I had a chance at fullfilling my condition. If Kerensky really had to kill moogle but still win with his faction, he was screwed, and if you had to outlive all 6 sisters, you were screwed sextuply.

According to Nikose, I was supposed to inherit Moogle's role when he died. He told me this over MSN after I died. If he had said this in my role PM, it would have clarified things immensely.

And frankly it's a pretty major strategic point, so there's really no reason for him not to have told me.

When he told me of Aldurin's role, I said it sounded godawful, but he told me Ald could also sort of cheat by sending PMs to people... That sounds rather neat, but given Ald's own wording, I'm starting to wonder if it was actually true.

[IHateMakingNames]

The only thing that Black Network didn't have an advantage in is that if town or Red Wizards won the game ended. And that really only applies with a town victory since Black Network would likely have more members by the end in a game heading towards mafia victory.

I really should have just Mayor'd Bard on Day 3. Why do people make Night deadlines longer than 48 hours? 24 hours is more than enough in most cases, 48 is just in case some one loses power.

[Fenris]

Ace got nothing to do with it.

We flipped a coin.

http://www.sheenhumor.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/107__420x340_why-you-mad-allergic-to-winning.jpg

.

[Nikose Tyris]

@Kerensky: If Black Network eliminated both Mafia and the last of the seven sisters, but Ravashak was still alive, it would have been a simultaneous Town/BN win. I didn't lie.


Edit: Also what I said was I fully expected Aldurin to cheat like crazy this game, because I gave him a role that was essentially "fuck up things for your own team." He said himself at the start of the game, "Thank you for giving me a role I excel at." Thus any complaints from Aldurin are ignored entirely. <3 Aldurin.

[Kerensky287]

@Kerensky: If Black Network eliminated both Mafia and the last of the seven sisters, but Ravashak was still alive, it would have been a simultaneous Town/BN win. I didn't lie.


Edit: Also what I said was I fully expected Aldurin to cheat like crazy this game, because I gave him a role that was essentially "fuck up things for your own team." He said himself at the start of the game, "Thank you for giving me a role I excel at." Thus any complaints from Aldurin are ignored entirely. <3 Aldurin.

Wait, wait.

First off, we weren't talking avout Ravs at the time. We were talking about Sifright. You explicitly said that both mafias could win simultaneously.

And... What?! You gave someone a role under the expectation that they would ignore the rules you yourself set out? That's... Fuck that. Just fuck that.

[Ravashak]

All this talk about win conditions... At least you HAD one. I had a choice of three powers at the start of each day, vig, bodyguard or being unlynchable. Sure, I was town aligned, so I assumed I had to take down the mafia(s), but for all intents and purposes, I was all alone xP

[BahamutFlare]

Black Network: vs 7 town + 6 mafia

Town: vs 6 mafia

Mafia: vs 7 town

Notice how no one had black network as an enemy. Maybe the lone townie or SK did. Town had 12 people against them. Aldurin + 5 BN + 6 Mafia. Black Network had 0 people against them. Mafia had 1 more against, but had a bunch more kill powers to handle it.

At least Aldurin was screwed. I don't know how we were supposed to even stand a slim chance if Aldurin started PM-ing people all of our roles. Bahamut is the BG. Kill him first. Then you have the rest of the sisters with their powers. Kill them next. Good luck mafia. Don't kill me until last, so I can win too.

[Nikose Tyris]

Aldurin was totes screwed. I'm not even pretending he wasn't. He was just perfectly okay with being screwed.

[IHateMakingNames]

Black Network was favored, excluding losing if another faction wins (In all likelihood would only apply if town sweeped the mafia).

After that Red Wizards, since town barely had a majority on them while Red Wizards had more masoned powers and Bard's power.

Then town would have been completely fucked if I didn't Mayor force on day 2 and day BG bullshit. Could have won on Day 3 but eh.

[Red Mage Black]

(quote tastic post and repost of Drac's quote.
Jokes on you, Fen. We also won. Though technically it should have defaulted to us anyway, with the most surviving faction members, but Nik is a jerk anyway.

[Moogle0119]

Yeah, even though nobody had us as our direct enemy, we had a difficult win condition because we had to ensure that the last of the 7 Sisters and the last of the Red Wizards died on the same night, otherwise the opposing faction would instantly win. Even though we got it down to 1 of each at the very end, we still couldn't win because of the BG powers.

[Sifright]

I'd just like to say, AHHAHAHA I WON SUCKERS I TOTALLY OWNED MUWHAHAHA..

[Geminex]

Jokes on you, Fen. We also won.
Maaaaan, it took a Red Wizard to bug nikose until he did that, though.
YOU'RE WELCOME

Though technically it should have defaulted to us anyway, with the most surviving faction members,
How's that? You win for fullfilling win conditions. Guess who did that? : D

but Nik is a jerk anyway.
We are in agreement.

[Aldurin]

Also what I said was I fully expected Aldurin to cheat like crazy this game, because I gave him a role that was essentially "fuck up things for your own team." He said himself at the start of the game, "Thank you for giving me a role I excel at." Thus any complaints from Aldurin are ignored entirely. <3 Aldurin.

I don't cheat, and there was never any indication that I was encouraged to cheat. You need to make sure that what your idea of how the role should work doesn't conflict with any guidelines in how we generally act.

[Geminex]

Man, earl, what possessed you to not break the rules and totally ruin the game for your entire faction? It is obviously what every normal person would have done.

[Red Mage Black]

Hmm, I know I have an idea of my own for a game. I'll need to check out the rules though, so I know how to make it really interesting. Mwahahaha...

[Aldurin]

It was my fourth mafia game, I never had any inkling that Nikose would sanction that kind of cheating.

[Moogle0119]

Note to self: Don't join RMB's mafia game

[Gregness]

Hmm, I know I have an idea of my own for a game. I'll need to check out the rules though, so I know how to make it really interesting. Mwahahaha...

It's the tone of NPF mafia games. People want to GM because they thought of roles or twists that they'd think would be fun to watch in mafia. Watch being the key word.

Hence why I'm not signing up for Bard's game.

Awhelp, so much for learning lessons.

[Revising Ocelot]

Everyone will be a Serial Killer in my mafia.

EVERYONE.

[Red Mage Black]

Hey guys, it won't be creepy overpowered like this one. I plan on making it both fun and interesting for people. Roughly 16 players is all I think I'd need with my idea. Adding an extra mafia and bull win conditions will not be par for the course.

Besides, I didn't have any win conditions outside of the 'last faction standing'.

[Geminex]

It's kinda funny that probably the most concentrated activity in this RP has been the postgame Q&A/criticism.

Though, Nikose, at least you didn't end up getting lynched.
Unlike bookie.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I just genuinely that Kerensky was full of shit D1. Didn't really expect a double scum.

Really, the more scumteams present the more you blur the line as to what is Scum and what isnt.

e: When everyone is masoned, no one is

[Ravashak]

me and the first Karesh weren't =þ

Part of the reason I believed Kerensky was due to his mention that one of his group had a choice of ability, which I also had.

[Red Mage Black]

As much as I hate to say it, but you were on my list for a night 2 kill. Sorry Rav.

[Kerensky287]

Well, the good news about all this is that now I have a bunch of guidelines for how not to GM.

I also expect we'll have a bunch more "traditional" mafias popping up in the near future.

[Gregness]

Eh, I personally like the role madness games, but I think the problem with this and Book's game was that there was no mechanism in place to prevent a stalemate. With Book's game they just lynched the GM, but I think the lesson to take away from this is to be very clear in role PM's (unless a power being secret is intentional) and to consider unlikely interactions.

Basically, make sure everyone's on the same page unless you have a good reason for them not to. I.E. small but secret mafia relies on people not knowing what's going on, but people having fundamental misunderstandings regarding powers (a standard bodyguard doesn't protect from multiple kills (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Doctor)) is something to be avoided. You can't rely on your players being meta as fuck.

Also, given how many bodyguards were in this game giving each side a one-shot strongman (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Strongman) power may have been in order

[Nikose Tyris]

Back in my day, we didn't have no fancy wiki bullshit to call on.

[Geminex]

You had to walk 10 miles every time you wanted to vote, uphill, both ways.

[Red Mage Black]

Times change old man. You can either change with the times or be called a loony.

The mafia I'm use to playing is with 6 people. 2 mafia, 1 cop and three townies. No day lynch as you can figure, no investigation stuff and both the mafia and cop get a kill, but they alternate to mafia one night, cop the other. Small party game, y'know?

[Gregness]

You seem to have misunderstood.

Everything after Kerensky revealed his big plan is worthless. Not a single post from Day 1 after that should be looked at for information.

I'm talking about after you and I voted for Kerensky. Four people, Karesh, Hawk, Bard, and Geminex, suddenly decided it was a bandwagon and jumped in to save Kerensky. He was a self-aligned lunatic, so he had no allies. But Karesh and Hawk were both scum trying to look like good townies. I figure that means Bard and/or Geminex are also scum. Two votes is way to early for a band wagon, these people were simply looking for the first opportunity to not appear as scum.

In rereading the thread I came across this again and I'd like to ask you to clarify a bit.

Ignoring the fact that Kerensky was actually on the level, it seems to me like you can still tease some information out of that mess even if he were a lyncher or something. At least, better information than is typically available the first few days.

I mean, all of the people you fingered in that post turned out to be scum so obviously you're doing something right. I just don't completely get it is all.

[Geminex]

Four people, Karesh, Hawk, Bard, and Geminex, suddenly decided it was a bandwagon and jumped in to save Kerensky.
This is silly, though. Like, yeah, you got us, well done. But two votes does not a bandwagon make. I just defended him cause I thought your reasoning was horrible.

Edit:
Which is not to say that 3 mafiates responding to the situation was smart, but when you say that we saw it as a bandwagon, you're presuming.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I don't really like the tone of NPF mafia games. People GM games to make up silly powers and twists. The games boil down to dealing with the GM, roles, or the rules instead of dealing with the other players. They're Bastard games.

I think I did kind of assume unfairly that everyone had played a lot of vanilla Mafia games like I had (and were also kind of tired of them, like I was).

Though if I had known Nikose was going to do something different, I probably would have played my Mafia straighter. But whatever.

Eh, I personally like the role madness games, but I think the problem with this and Book's game was that there was no mechanism in place to prevent a stalemate. With Book's game they just lynched the GM, but I think the lesson to take away from this is to be very clear in role PM's (unless a power being secret is intentional) and to consider unlikely interactions.

There were three mechanisms in place to prevent stalemates in my Mafia. Two of them flamed out horribly and the third one that I didn't do nearly enough with got used and ended the game (I counted them voting for me as a No Lynch). Sooooo many things I should have done differently there. But whatever!

Incidentally, my role in this game was Voteless. I could vote, but it didn't count. I guess that was revenge for Hatland, except Nikose wasn't even in that fucking game.